Lowering XJ

[eric91xj]

I've always pondered the idea and infact a while back i cut my front springs and dropped it about 2.5". What about the rear? what is the chance of a D35 out of a YJ or D44 out of an MJ tucking under there to lower it because they are both sprung under? By the way i'm not trying to sound ricey its just that it would be nice to have speed accompanied by nice handling to back it up.

eric

[woody]

Unclear on YJ perch width, but the MJ Axle isn't a 'direct' swap-in due to it being different spring perch width (MJ springs mount under the frame...XJ springs mount outboard of it)

Also doing a SUA will likely drop you lower than the front 2.5", so adding longer shackles may be needed to level up.

[Ed A. Stevens]

Is the front axle on the bumpstops? I looked at doing something like this to the wifes XJ a few years back but the stops were too close (her XJ has the longer HD tow package stops).

In the rear axle relocation you need to weld new spring perches under the axle, the old over the axle perches can remain as they do not get in the way of the u-bolts (and can be used for a different style of traction bar). The shock mounts will need to be relocated, if I picture the configuration correctly (one of the u-bolts go through the factory XJ shock mount, IIRC).

I do not know if the resulting rear body height would demand a longer shackle to level the result (an educated guess is yes, but a true test will tell). Let us know if anyone has tried this, or what you find?

I would also be a little concerned with possible wheel hop in a spring-under configuration with the minimal arch of the XJ spring pack. It is something else to think about (get some spare leafs for future changes).

Since I have not talked to many people who have lowered an XJ like yours (anyone else?) how does it ride? What size tires, etc.?

[XJguy]

You can get some RE spring perches and weld them on the opposite side. You can even compensate for change in pinion angle while at it, or just use an angled shim and use it in the opposite configuration a lifted XJ would. Youll also have to remove and reweld the shock mounts. This is what I did along with dearched springs....which resulted in too much drop even with lift shackles, the tire comes too close to the fender lip, trimming would help or rounded wheel openings.

Take a look under your XJ and measure the axle tube and spring perch height, add that measurement to the top of your leaf spring pack and youll see how much you will drop it and how close youll be to the frame. Most likely shorter bump stops will be needed.

I dont know how it rides sinse i have not riden mine yet, but I would guess it would be pretty much like how an MJ rides.

XJguy

[Centrevillemx]

How about drop blocks? for just a lift kit in reverse

[Kejtar]

and where would you place the drop blocks? the drop blocks would require a SUA I believe, otherwise you end up lifting it and thus they are called lift blocks.....

Kejtar

[mark]

that is a true statement, what about the dakota springs that lift, find springs that are not arched as much, and build some custom lowering packs

[Glenn B]

Kejtar, a SUA is what is being discussed.
Glenn

[Kejtar]

Originally posted by Glenn Baker
Kejtar, a SUA is what is being discussed.
Glenn

LOL... I know.... but it was mentioned that the SUA will most likely need a slightly longer shackle as the drop might be too much and I felt that the lowering blocks were offerd as an alternative to SUA :)

Kejtar

[Centrevillemx]

in order to use drop blocks you have to convert it to SUA

[Glenn B]

Originally posted by Kejtar
LOL... I know.... but it was mentioned that the SUA will most likely need a slightly longer shackle as the drop might be too much and I felt that the lowering blocks were offerd as an alternative to SUA :)

Kejtar

Interesting concept.... but won't work. :D
Glenn

[eric91xj]

drop blocks are what i have already thought of. If i were to go SUA i could keep my springs on there and just go from there, if it was to high still, put some drop blocks in it and just kinda tailor it. As for Ed Stevens question the chopped front springs honestly road like sh*t. It actually handled worse because after a few short months my front shocks were dead some how so it felt like i was driving a boat on the road, i guess this could also be because the whole front end geometry was way off. Braking and traction in the rain and snow got considerably worse because the rear end was so much higher and lighter with no rear seat or spare tire or anything back there. The tires were 245/60R15 BFG Radial T/A's. Its so confusing to me, one day i'm dead set on lifting it and putting 31's or 32" muds on it and beating the hell out of it, the next day i want to polish it and make a street machine, i think i better buy a 2nd XJ!

Eric

[Fore Wheeler]

wouldn't it make sense that doing a SUA would drop the rear by 5" or so, as that's the 'general' lift when you do a SOA on a CJ?? The axle tube on a Model 20 may be slightly bigger than a 35 or a 8.25, but not by much.

This would be a good start number as to how much you should expect.

[Speed_racer]

Im going to cry... your xj's are yelling at you!!

They want HIGHER!!! HIGHER!!! not lower :(

:anon: <-- thats the only way Id drive a dropped JEEP!!

[Rev Den]

Speed......this is the "Street and Performance" forum. We are trying to accomadate and accept those who have a different goal from the majority. Comments such as this can "scare off" potential new members and those who are giving us a shot as the premire source of XJ/MJ information.

Different strokes for different folkes.

Sorry...climbing off soapbox now.
DG

[Lawn Cher']

Listen, Jerky, this forum was started specifically to avoid that kind of input from the original Mod-Tech forum, so keep your useless opinion to yourself. It just so happens that there are more than a few of us who either have more than one Jeep for various uses, or aren't into the whole build 'n' bash scene. I, for one, am jealous of the way my wife's stock '01 XJ rides on the road, which is why I've decided to build a fast and comfortable street MJ with which to tow my big XJ, and also to replace my noisy, uncomfortable, spartan, utilitarian, lifted '87 MJ longbed.

Bottom line is, we won't tolerate that kind of crap here. Take it to JU.

P.S. Beat me to it, Rev.

[Speed_racer]

Originally posted by Rev Den
Speed......this is the "Street and Performance" forum. We are trying to accomadate and accept those who have a different goal from the majority. Comments such as this can "scare off" potential new members and those who are giving us a shot as the premire source of XJ/MJ information.

Different strokes for different folkes.

Sorry...climbing off soapbox now.
DG

Nah, its cool I understand.

Im just a firm believer that Jeeps were made for offroad and not for things so "ricer" oriented.

Yes, Im opinionated, and yes I tend to share my opinions with wreckless abondon.

I just dont think vehicles that helped win a war (jeeps) should be dropped... its my opinion.. But yeah, youre both right, Im out of line.. go on, drop it, get winched over a speed bump....

[Sarge]

Originally posted by Speed_racer
Nah, its cool I understand.

Im just a firm believer that Jeeps were made for offroad and not for things so "ricer" oriented.

Mine is so "offroad oriented" that it's 2 wheel drive and gets stuck in 1/2 inch of snow. I personally am glad this forum has been started.

Sarge

[Lawn Cher']

The thing with Ricers is that alot of the crap they put on those vehicles is non-functional... rear deck spoiler on a fwd car?! You can't compare that to what we are discussing here. This forum is for functional performance enhancement, regardless of the stuff under the tires. The great thing about Jeeps is their power to weight ratio that makes them fun to drive on the street as well as off-road, so we are here to cover the until now ignored performance side of our great vehicles.

[Speed_racer]

Alright Lawn, Ill give ya that ;)

[REDXJ4FUN]

Ok speedy if they arent realy meant for what some of us want to do such as lowering and making them fast and if the factory never intended it at all why did 4banger MJs kick the crap out of every one in thier clase in road raceing. I'm just like aalarge majority of us on NAXJA we love to build things and work with our hands and be a little diffrent. I personaly have a 89 xj on 35s and soon will have a lowered MJ and a MJ sitting on atleast 38s. we're hear to talk about things and help eachother out no mater what they want to do. hell if some one wanted to make a boat out of an XJ we might laugh alittle but damn if we wouldn't help the guy the best we could.

[Lawn Cher']

Now you got me thinking again... when my projects are done I should have 2 spare perfectly operational 4.0's laying around... they would power a boat nicely.

Sorry, back on topic!

[woody]

Ed makes a great point about the front bumpstops...

I knew all along that the typical MJ has longer rear bumpstops (and shackles) than the XJ... when I lifted my 89 XJ I used the front bumpstops from my 89 metric-ton MJ (had trimmed the "bells" that grab the springs on that set) and yesterday confirmed that they indeed are longer - by maybe 1"- than the XJ variety that they replaced.

So there is some cross-use possible now that we know about the differences...

[gmars]

I saw the Hot Rod MJ's @ Brainerd Intl Raceway several times. What a blast! They kicked everything else's a**. They ran in a tight, drafting position, bouncing off each others' tails, hangin' the rear end sideways. The peopel couldn't bleiive they were only 4-bangers.
Yes, there is a legitimate interest in making the XJ a street-mod, tail happy powerhouse.
On the lowering, my '97 5-spd 4.0 has sagged about an 1 1/2inches already, due to hauling, towing and extra 'S' goodies (sub, skids, spare, stuff).
I'm wondering if the late models (97-01) need to worry about driveline vibes when you go DOWN, just liek when you go UP?
I'd love to be able to drop it about 2-inches up front, but have the hydraulics to go the same distance UP whn the situation called.
Is that too much too ask?
G

[REDXJ4FUN]

I'm trying like hell to find any info or pic fro, the mj racing days but haven't had much luck.
Hydralis would work but air bags would do the same job and ride better and be alitle cheaper. i dont think you'd have drive line problems if you lowered it but you may need to shim the axle to get the drive line angles right.
Back in 97 I got my first XJ and it needed motor so i rebuilt it and but a header and a cam in it. That thing was very quick and was amazing on the highway. from about 65 till the limiter kicked in it would run with just about any v8 at the time and was just abunch of fun to drive

[CW]

It could be possible to do a shackle flip like the full size chevy guys but in reverse. If you flip the shackle up you would get around a 2 inch drop and you could always use a longer shackle. This is just an idea and I haven't looked to check for clearnce issues. But I thought I'd throw it out

[CW]

After actually looking under my jeep I don't think my previous Idea would be possibe because of the location of the shackle bracket. :doh:

[Bent]

What about redrilling the rear shackle mounting holes up closer to the body. there appears to be about 1 1/2" of room. maybee add a plate to the exterior prior to drilling if you're worried about the new hole being too close to the old one. Replace the shackle with one similar to a boomerang with the concave side towards the rear bumper. Trim the bottom of the bumper as needed.
This might require a longer main leaf, very flat leaf or flipped leaf added to the pack. I'm not sure. Just thinking out loud.
Another option(and this may be way out there) would be to have the foward spring eye wrapped in the opposite direction. If it could be done then you might loose 1 1/2"(?).
What about a coil/four link conversion with shorter (custom?) coils?
I may be out of my mind here, would'nt be the first time. But then again...


T just babbeling Bent

[XJ Saga]

[i] The great thing about Jeeps is their power to weight ratio that makes them fun to drive on the street as well as off-road, so we are here to cover the until now ignored performance side of our great vehicles. [/B]

Dammit, now that is the exact point I'm trying to make to anyone as a counterargument when I hear that Jeeps are'nt designed for speed. That is complete horseshit. I've got that same power to weight ratio as an Acura Integra Type R. I consider that an excellent benchmark for a fast vehicle. I'm glad someone else out there thinks the way I do about Jeeps.....the ultimate sleepers.

[aspera]

This is the forum that I've been looking for.
The XJ can be made to do almost anything. Obviously it can offroad, but it can race and drag too. It might even autoX!:D THAT would be something. I'd like to see a rally Cherokee, though. That would make everyone happy. It would be built for the road, but would sling gravel to make the offroaders happy.

The naysayers should be reminded of the Archer Bros. Jeeps after the first outburst.

Now, lowering a Cherokee will free up a few horsepower at speed. This is because the Cherokee is a brick. It will also increase fuel mileage. Combined with a front airdam, the results might be pretty good. Handling might also be better at highway speeds or in crosswinds. This is real world performance. Over 99% of the Jeeps here get driven on the highway.

Is it ricey? No, not if done properly. Just like the rear wing on a FWD example above, it can be done right or wrong. It also requires some thought. Things are not always as they first appear. A FWD car produces downforce on the drive wheels as speed increases. A lowered FWD might produce even more front downforce. Like a seesaw, the rear lifts up. Even though the rear wheels aren't driven they do need to be pressed to the pavement, otherwise they might want to swap ends under hard braking. They also might toe out or lose camber when lifted.

Look at the hood on the front of a Civic TypeR hatchback. See the angle of the hood? Imagine tilting the hood of your Cherokee forward to that same angle. Think you'd get some front downforce at 80mph?:LOL: I use the Civic as an example because it was aero tested against sports cars in a German car magazine. Germans test things very well.:)

[Lawn Cher']

Welcome to the forum! You sound like you have quite a bit of knowledge to add to the community... I like that.

[Cheropair]

Looked at the rear of mine, bumpstops were broken off long before I bought it, shocks now limit up travel with no interference conserning the fenders with stock tires.
SOA usually gives about 5" of lift - what if you went SOA with a 3" AAL? This would stiffen the spring rate - usually a good thing for handling - and using a shorter than stock shock? In theory this would net about a 2" drop, and the shock mount that gets in the way could be relocated to the other side of the axle - use somethinf like the crossmember that some people use that angle their shocks over (Cross Enter? I remember seeing a bought one).
For the front - what about using springs from a 4 cyl w/o A/C? Dunno if this works on Cherokees, but using the lightest factory springs available to drop the front of a big block car is an "old school" trick from way back. Need to increase the roll-bar diameter to get back the wallow resistance on the twisties. Maybe the Currie Anti-rock set as stiff as possible?

Not my cup of tea, but if someone wants to lower their Cherokee, thats fine. Just, PLEASE, don't put a fart tube on the exhaust - they annoy my dog (and me!).....

[Kejtar]

shocks limit uptravel??? you're gonna kill the shocks....

[Cheropair]

Didn't say the shocks lived well, but they still work. Basically it's an emergency back-up vehicle, just one step from being a donor. Just wanted to show that it will work, the shocks bottom out at about the same time the axle hits the frame.

Shocks are rusty, show some seepage, and the lower mounts are bent a little down. Have no idea what brand or part number, might have a little Monroe blue on them, but I can't say for sure. $100 and I drove it home, so I didn't ask alot about the previous abuse.

[Dr. Dyno]

Originally posted by XJ Saga
Dammit, now that is the exact point I'm trying to make to anyone as a counterargument when I hear that Jeeps are'nt designed for speed. That is complete horseshit. I've got that same power to weight ratio as an Acura Integra Type R. I consider that an excellent benchmark for a fast vehicle. I'm glad someone else out there thinks the way I do about Jeeps.....the ultimate sleepers.

Agree 100% with that argument. I've spent the last eight years slowly modifying mine and it's still a work in progress.
I haven't lowered my suspension yet but I have installed poly bushings to the front antisway bar and the UCA's and this has tightened up the handling nicely. Since I have the UpCountry off road package, I have 1" coil spring spacers at the front which I could remove to lower the front by 1". My XJ is an oddball export model that also has a rear antisway bar so I could do with some poly bushings for that as well.
I've also installed the front air dam from a '91 GMC Jimmy. This has reduced front end lift to make the Jeep noticeably more stable at speed and in crosswinds.
The XJ does indeed have a very good power/weight ratio and it's not difficult to improve on that. I've gained ~50hp (crank) with my performance mods while at the same time I've also lightened my XJ by 85lb. Stock was 19.1lb/hp (with my 165lb body in it), now it's 14.9lb/hp.

[woody]

I guess any benchmark of 'performance' needs to factor in the intended & actual use of the vehicle, and how well it performs or usefulness is improved with a given change from OEM.

The off-road side of NAXJA addresses this on a daily basis within that aspect of modification....and lots of the suspension tech crosses back & forth, even if with opposing goals (lift & flex vs drop & tight road handling) LOL In case anyone hasn't noticed, folks don't brag on rear sway bars over there ;)

What makes XJs & MJs pretty amazing to me is their versatility. The platform can transform from reliable daily transport to trail rig to road or drag-mud-sand racer and back with a simple day of suspension & axle? swapping and adding appropriate tires/wheels. It may not excel at any particular aspect without some trade-offs elsewhere, but a basic changeover involves just some $$$ in mostly bolt-on parts and a bit of wrench time.

I am interested in hearing more specific tech about basic XJ/MJ suspension lowering and how it helped your Jeep...Part #s and sources are good :)

I'd like to learn some OEM Jeep spring rate & length/ride height info...

Dr Dyno, forgive my ignorance, but you mean to say that the UC package on your 92 is a 1" spacer? Hmmmm I always thought it was a longer and/or stiffer coil.

I have heard TJ front coils offer a little lower ride height than OEM XJ...If so, there ought to be plenty of those available for cheap-to free.

Also think that a springunder/over leafpack rear axle isn't out of the question for a multipurpose XJ. Before I "XJ'd" my MJ D44, it had both sets of spring pads attached, and could have gone in either way. Simply undo brakes, shocks, pinion UJ, U-bolts, & shackles...roll out, roll in, attach, bleed, etc... It's almost fun when ya get used to it :)

A few off-road parts & tricks that would switch hit nicely are ORGS ACOS (trick adjustable 0" to +3" front coil spacers) and adding a traction link(s?) to the shaved rear axle.

[Dr. Dyno]

Originally posted by woody

Dr Dyno, forgive my ignorance, but you mean to say that the UC package on your 92 is a 1" spacer? Hmmmm I always thought it was a longer and/or stiffer coil.


You're probably right about the longer coils. I just haven't had a non-UpCountry XJ to compare mine with because all the XJ's sold out here came with the offroad package as standard.
I forgot to mention that the UpCountry package also included heavy duty gas charged shocks, and they really do perform very well.

[Lawn Cher']

The spacer seems strange... my '01 Upcountry has stiffer/taller springs, the stiffer shocks and taller bumpstops. There is a rubber coil isolator as on all XJ's, but no additional spacer to my knowledge. Do you have the rubber isolator and a spacer between the coil spring & the body, or just one item?

[Dr. Dyno]

I just have one item and it looks like it's the rubber isolator, so I must have mistaken that for a spacer.

[woody]

Whew...thought I had lost my mind :) I figured that if there was a 'spacer' of significant height, the cheap-o off-road folks would have been raiding the junkyards and stacking these things up for added lift. As it is, the rubber 12mm isolators can be stacked to tweak the ride height.

This is where Off Road General Store's ACOS is sweet... front ride height can be easily adjusted within a 3" range to get the altitude where it's needed for different uses. IE: a 2" drop for cruising and a +1" lift for light trail use or load carrying

Coil Theory Question: Removing (cutting off) a wrap or two from a coil spring increases it's stiffness - Yes? If so (asssuming the coil is linear & not progressive rate) is there a simple equation that one could plug in spring rate # and number of wraps to predict drop and/or rate increase?

[aspera]

Originally posted by Lawn Cher'
Welcome to the forum! You sound like you have quite a bit of knowledge to add to the community... I like that.

Thanks for the warm welcome. My head is swelling as I type.:D

I'm mostly into Subaru stuff and MR2 stuff, which is WAY different than XJ stuff. I'm still trying to figure out the horse-and-buggy suspension on my XJ.:D While it may be old-tech, it gets the job done. That job is the same as on my other vehicles. They are all just boxes rolling on wheels. That's why I believe that the XJ has potential OTHER that offroading it.

The WRX is a jack-of-all-trades sports car. It does best at a rally race, but can also autocross, drag, road race, ice race, and do some light offroading. One lucky WRX is even going to be a Bonneville top speed car.:eek:

Being realistic, the XJ will never keep up with a new Corvette or even a *well* done import car. It is too tall, narrow and heavy. That doesn't mean that it can't be improved to a point where it is DAMN good on the street.

It has certain advantages. First is simplicity. There's no VTEC, tumble generator valves, variable valve timing, traction control, etc. My Jeep doesn't even have OBD2 or ABS.:)

Second is traction. If the XJ can swallow big offroad tires, then it can surely take some decent sized street tires. You also have the option of AWD.

Third is aftermarket support and availablility. A bazillion Cherokees were made. Everybody has been making cheap parts for them for over a decade. Even Ford has unknowingly been making parts for the XJ.:)

Last is weight. The XJ is a runt compared to modern bloated SUVs. That is a good thing. With some careful dieting, it can get pretty lean and mean. By careful I mean that you should choose the springs that are lightweight, not only short or stiff. Remember, that extra coil might weigh a pound or two.

[Lawn Cher']

I like Subaru's... I learned to drive on my mom's '91 Loyale wagon... 1.8 H-4, 5-speed, pushbutton part time 4wd. I used to wheel it a little bit and tow my little boat with it. Great car, very utilitarian and reliable like the XJ, only much better gas mileage. My dad had a '94 Legacy 2wd wagon, 2.2 H-4, 5 speed. That car was much sportier to drive, more comfortable also. They still have it, it is in great shape. I haven't driven any of the AWD models, but I imagine they stick to the road like glue (at least in Gran Turismo, they do, which I find to be fairly accurate in vehicle handling characteristics. I fine tuned my skid control reflexes playing that game!)

My mom got rid of the '91 (much to my disappointment, it would've made a fun little sand car,) and now drives the '94. My dad bought an Oldsmobile Alero, rather boring IMHO.

Alright, back on topic!

[aspera]

Well the long and short of it is...I punked out.:D

I drove over to Topeka today to watch the SCCA autocross Nationals. I met up with some friends and went to lunch. I got to ride in the new turboed Forrester. That thing is a sleeper and a half! Most people would turn up their noses at it...IF they even noticed it. It just looks odd. Underneath the skin it is a cross between an Outback Sport and a WRX STi. The owner said he had recently spanked some Hondas at the drag races!:lol: They never knew what hit 'em.

OK. After lunch I go back to the races and check out BMWs, Porsches, Saturns(WTF?), Corvettes, etc... There was also a plain-Jane Ford Focus I was told to look at closely. It was stuffed with the ENTIRE Mustang Cobra drivetrain. It was even supercharged!:D I hate Fords but damn, you gotta love that.

Here's where I punked out on the whole "Street Cherokee" thing. I stopped into a 4x4 show just down the road, right before closing. I walked out with 5 Wrangler Rubicon Moab take-off alloys (some scratches) and Goodyear MT/Rs (4 tires had 3K miles, spare was new) for $700.:cool:

[Lawn Cher']

There's not reason why you can't do both. My XJ is certainly no street machine, but my wife's is fun to speed around in, being bone stock. I'm going to restore my '89 MJ into something in between, a mildly wheelable street truck, as soon as I sell my '87 MJ tow rig.

[Cherokid]

Has anyone tried pulling leaves out of the rear pack? There's a free way to drop and if you don't like it you can always go back. A few years back I saw these little urithane bump stops. (about an inch tall total). That would gain you more usable suspension travel. When you bottom out you may do it hard but once you learn the limits of the suspension it will work.

In the front you could spend some time at the junk yard and look for coils from a car the same weight with shorter coils. Seems to me if the coil diameter is the same it'll fly. Trim the front bump stops and run shocks all around a little stiffer with the body of the shock mounted high. (less unsprung weigh, flipping the shocks will make a noticable difference.)

(Several years ago I dropped a Nissan hardbody 4" and it was a blast!)

Final thought...
What about getting some wide offroad front fenders and widen the back to get more rubbler down?

Food for thought or should I get back on my meds?

Tony

[REDXJ4FUN]

About the fenders I've been looking for fiberglass fenders that look factory but are wider but haven't had much luck yet but maybe with so help from the colectedbrain power here we could find som if not just some good old triming like we do with the 4x4s. then we'ded have to do something similar to the rear. kinda like a wide body kit they make for BMWs and ricers.

[Cherokid]

I just remembered an old trick my dad told me about (that I haven't used....yet). Back in the forties and fifties when they had tire clearance problems with the outer fender lips they'd cut back where the wheel well opening rolls under or take a baseball bat (or similar 'tool') and leverage it between the tire and wheel well opening, rolling it back and forth. He said they'd slowly get the fender to bow out a little and gain more clearance. My understanding is ya gotta go slow and work it back and forth a lot but that the result looks pretty good.

Nuther option? Or more meds!
Tony

[XJguy]

The fender rolling would not work to well on an XJ. On the Warrior I have intentions to give it round wheel wells. That way I can really get a nice fit with the tire and opening. You can get the big figerglass racing fenders but they may offer too much clearance for even the most dropped XJ unless you got with huge rims which actually may look pretty sweet....but thats just a guess, I never actually saw them in person to take measurements.

XJguy

[CW]

Just for fun yesterday my buddies and I slammed my xj in my driveway. I cut 3" off of my old stock coils and in the back we put an mj overload spring and a nissan pickup leaf under an xj main leaf. It was around 3" of dropp all the way around. It looked pretty funny with baja lights on the top and big bumpers, but I think I will do it again when I want to take my stroker to the drags. I don't know what it rides like because the engine is blown and I'm installing my stroker this week. I imagine it would be stiff, but I don't know how much different from my 5.5" of lift. I have TJ flares so I still had room for more dropp or bigger wheels.

[mark268]

:mad: :banghead:


OK GUYS !!!!

I havent even read this whole thread, I had to stop because you are making this much harder then it should be.

First of all, nothing wrong if the guy wants to lower his XJ, it's his to do with what he wants.
Second, I believe this is the speed and performance BB ?
And Last but not least....
To lower you XJ cut the front coil springs, possibly cut then re weld the tube that hold the bump stop, and make a SUA. A SUA will give you apx. 2.5". It is actually the axel tube dia. +/-, you can figure it out. If this is not enough then add blocks and cut more spring.
Now how hard is that ?

[REDXJ4FUN]

Mark if you didn't read the entire thread you missed alot. theres alot more than just lowering an XJ and everything you sai has been covered but you measurement for the rear is more of about 5 in,

[Eagle]

Originally posted by woody
Coil Theory Question: Removing (cutting off) a wrap or two from a coil spring increases it's stiffness - Yes? If so (asssuming the coil is linear & not progressive rate) is there a simple equation that one could plug in spring rate # and number of wraps to predict drop and/or rate increase?

Correct. A coil spring is simply a torsion bar wrapped around itself in a helix. Cutting off a coil or two does increase the stiffness. I don't remember if it is a direct proportion, or if it is exponential.

One of the off-road mags had an article a few months (maybe a year now) ago that had formulas for calculating spring rates of both coil springs and leaf springs. Does anyone have that article?

[M. Lake]

How about using something like a Corvett rearend giving a IRS and finding something out of a subaru for the front giving an IFS? You could then use drop spindles on the front and not worry about a solid axle putting the oil pan against a rod. It would take some fab work, but then how many here haven't fabed something up already? Look a Bez's XJ and what he did to the rear end to get a 4 link done.

Look at the rear of this thing and take that into mind. If you cut the floor out of the back (not the fendors) to the hight of the seat, and welded in a new floor (to hight of top of rear seat) then all the suspension stuff would be hidden for doing a coil/shock hoop. You could go as far as putting a TV in so that when you lift the hatch, you see a ~18" raised section with a TV, dvd and some speakers hidden by the lower portian of hatch. Would make an awesome tailgate party truck.

Put in an impact cage (not roll) and have it tie from the rear (suspension parts) to the inside. Then do what the Musle car guys do and hack the inside of the fender wells out and put in a mean motor, SBC 400 or a well tuned 4.0 and have the impact cage go through the fenders and up and around the rad. This would give you shock (short stang coilovers) hoop intagrated into the cage. Like a nascar kinda.

http://www.bncoffroad.com/2003/03_015.jpg

[Eagle]

Originally posted by M. Lake
How about using something like a Corvett rearend giving a IRS and finding something out of a subaru for the front giving an IFS? You could then use drop spindles on the front and not worry about a solid axle putting the oil pan against a rod.

Or do it the easy way, and keep it all in the family: The early 80s AMC Eagle sedans and wagons were 4WD with IFS. The engines were the same 4.2L that was used in Wranglers, which is essentially the same block as the 4.0L XJ engine. AMC somehow hung the front diff off the engine -- I see no reason this couldn't be adapted to an XJ low rider.

[M. Lake]

Actually the 4.2 block is a taller and norrower block then the 4.0, the heads from the 4.0 will fit any I-6 AMC/Jeep block made since 1964 like the postal jeeps and there 232, to the 4.2 block. The journals were the sleaves are (piston), are not as wide, so it couldn't even be re-sleaved to a 4.0 without major block work. Then it would be the Mexico version I-6 wich is a 4.6, but it is not a strocker.

I was thinking more along the lines of getting the frame rail (if you want to call it that) closer to the ground maybe tube the whole thing front to back. (No KISS on my project). Is the eagle sadan stock with a solid mounted diff, with "A" arms like the vet diff rear? It would help. The 242 t-case is part and full time 4wd, would it work for the applacation of awd (limited slip in the case) to supply power to the ground at all four corners with a simple type of traction control? I have plans in my mind of building one, and the wife has started giving me greif about it. And I don't want to build one that is rear happy. I would like to mesh the little peddle to the steal and not spinn off the rear tires, more along the lines of just flat out see ya later, I'm gone, don't try to catch me jump off the line balls. SBC with twin turbos and nothing in the engine bay but motor and not electrical do dads, on bunch of BS. Not filling the whole bay up with motor, but having something open with tons of space and a motor in the midle. A body diet for the Jeep!

[aspera]

Did someone say Subaru?:D

The XJ would require EXTRAORDINARY fabrication to install the Suby front suspension. I mean you'd have to built strut towers from scratch, for starters. The next big problem would be getting power to the front wheels. The XJ uses a transfer case and a separate front axle. Scoobys use an all-in-one transaxle. It would be easier to just use the entire Subaru engine/tranny combo. The idea of a Cherokee wearing a an STi Type RA Spec C badge makes me smile though.:)

The Subaru rear diff would be too small to use with anything but the Subaru drivetrain. It does attach to the car using a subframe, so conversion seems do-able. A bonus is that the Subaru rear diff readily accepts a skidplate. Check under a Legacy or Impreza next time you visit a junkyard. Subarus are usually left untouched, since they are not too common.

Tell me more about the Mexico engine and the AMC Eagle front suspension. Any pix or links?

[mark268]

:doh:

Ok, I am sorry guys. I should have continued reading.
Many apologies.
Mark

[M. Lake]

I don't know about using a complete subi drivetrain. Maybe to acomplish a solid mount front diff, use a cheby or ford, or nissan, with out the torsion bars. Gutting the fenders and all the extra crap, like over flow bottle, (stick in stock place of window washer bottle) relocate battery to back, putting the ecu under dash with main fuse and relay box. Like looking under the hood of a rodded out comero (70-80) all you see is motor and tires and tube frame. Using the tube frame for the coil over shock hoop and to hold front nose clip and radiator and front diff.

Dr. Dyno can tell about the mexico motor, or join the strokers group.

To do a tube frame front to back, tieing the inside impact cage, front tube and rear tube for the vet rear end. A cage that can handle a 100+ MPH head on impact, not something to be made for just roll overs while wheeling the rocks.

This would be my tow rig project to pull the XJ that I have, and building up. Have parts for an 8" lift, but add a 2" raise on the axle to get 10", complete LA front and rear w/rear coils, 4.~ stroker motor (finaly got custom piston size, Big thanks Dino) D60 FW rear, need to locate HPRCD60 80-86 F350SD. As well as my, 1/4 drag, tour the streats and woop saleans, mall cruiser (did I just say that?)

If jeep was ment to be a trail king it would come that way stock, instead of a grocery getting, soccer mom, streat buggy. I can go all out droping it, with awd, 20-22" spinners with lo-pros, just like I can go up 10" with 35"+ on FW axles and skids galor. Just need 3rd jeep (wife wont let me do it to hers, she wants hers lifted, working on it.)

[Eagle]

Originally posted by M. Lake
Actually the 4.2 block is a taller and norrower block then the 4.0, the heads from the 4.0 will fit any I-6 AMC/Jeep block made since 1964 like the postal jeeps and there 232, to the 4.2 block. The journals were the sleaves are (piston), are not as wide, so it couldn't even be re-sleaved to a 4.0 without major block work. Then it would be the Mexico version I-6 wich is a 4.6, but it is not a strocker.

True, but irrelevent.

I wasn't suggesting trying to use a 4.2L engine, I was suggesting that the Eagle 4WD IFS could be attached to a 4.0L block the same way it is attached to the 4.2L blocks in the Eagles. AMC did not cast a different block for the Eagles -- they hung the front diff from stock blocks using brackets. Despite the very minor differences in deck height and block width, the 4.2L and 4.0L engines are essentially the same.

[M. Lake]

That they are, I'm building a stroked out 4.0 based off the 4.2 (90 yj crank, 4 CW with short snout and 707 forged rods)

But how do they bolt it to the block? Would it move (torque movement of motor while aplying gas) with the block? Could you help out with a link or a pic please? Those are the 4wd cars right? I would love to build it, even if it took 5 years!

[aspera]

Originally posted by M. Lake
...or join the strokers group.



:eek: UHHH....thanks but I'll pass on that one.:D

[Eagle]

Originally posted by M. Lake
But how do they bolt it to the block? Would it move (torque movement of motor while aplying gas) with the block? Could you help out with a link or a pic please? Those are the 4wd cars right? I would love to build it, even if it took 5 years!

I know they hung the diff off the block, but I don't remember how -- and my brother JUST rolled his old Eagle wagon out of 10 years storage and sold it, so I don't have one I can look at. Must have been some kind of bracketry, because it was IFS.

Yes, I assume there was some movement when the engine rotated due to torque, but it does not appear to have been noticeable in any kind of driver feedback.

[M. Lake]

I know where one is sitting in someones yard, but don't think they would like it if I walked in and looked.

[REDXJ4FUN]

OK The eagles used the same front IFS as the rest of the AMC cars. it use a dana 30 diff with CV shafts going out to unitbearings like our XJs do. The diff was hung from a bracket that bolted to the block. I cant remember exactly how but it did. Its been awhilesince i've pulled a motor out of one. It was part of the motormount sndd some other part.I wish i had my chiltons or factory manual.the lover cros member is a mout for ii balive the lower control arms and damn near the width of a XJ.:arrowr: :D

[Sarge]

This help any?

http://www.skidmore.edu/~pdwyer/amc/eagle/80eagle1_752948.htm

Sarge

[M. Lake]

Thanks Sarge! It gives an idea to start with.

[REDXJ4FUN]

Dang this thread has gotten wierd but i love it. this is perfrct get and eagle steal most of the front drive train and proble the TC and put it under my street MJ then take the eagle and make a rock buggy out of it:D :D :D
a good freind and i wee talking about it last night so it came to mae that it wouls all work out.

[XJguy]

Sounds very cool. An Eagle would make a great rock buggy IMHO. The MJ will kick some ass with IFS! Drop in a Corvette rear with a composite monoleaf or do the coilovers and wait for victims!

XJguy

[M. Lake]

Originally posted by XJguy
The MJ will kick some ass with IFS! Drop in a Corvette rear with a composite monoleaf or do the coilovers and wait for victims!

XJguy

:firedevil

[REDXJ4FUN]

Trust me I can't wait to get going with it but the new house and shop have to be built yet. but I'l have a rock MJ on 40ss with portal axles and then my street mj with with indepentant front and rear and at leeasta 300hp normay asperated 4.0 (well maybee stroked to)or 400 plus turbo 4.0. the rock mj will have an AMC V8 in it and will kinda look like an old willys when I'm done. plus I have at least 2 AMXs I need to resore for the 2005 power tour or may be just one and Ill bring out the MJ

[cingtek]

Being a noob to this board, pardon my ignorance. Y'all are not talking about a simple cut the coil springs and move or flip the leafs under the rear end type drop, right?

[XJguy]

Yes, but some guys are thinking of swapping in independent suspensions.

XJguy

[M. Lake]

Originally posted by cingtek
Being a noob to this board, pardon my ignorance. Y'all are not talking about a simple cut the coil springs and move or flip the leafs under the rear end type drop, right?
earlier posts (http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8655&perpage=15&pagenumber=4) look for white XJ with blue mods, smashing a car.

[Majo]

What a sad day...(Moderator Edit: If you do not care for what others do, you should consider avoiding this particular forum. Rude comments are not needed)

[CW]

Originally posted by CUxj88
What a sad day...soon to see an XJ on www.anti-rice.com
What is your problem?:mad: Lowering a vehichle does not ruin it or make it rice. Most people would not even notice that an xj was lowered. Everone has a right to do whatever they want to their vehicle. My jeep is sitting at 8" of lift and full width axles are goin on with 36's. Thats what I chose to do. Some people do not have the opportunity to go offraod or the desire to, what is wrong with them optimizing it for what it is used for? It is rediculous that this board needs to be defended from retards like you, read the sticky at the top of the board and STFU.
:soapbox:

[Majo]

Jeeps go up not down, if that piece of s*** ever showed up or any other lowered jeep i'd make every attempt to slash their tires...it's just wrong that's like lifting a cadillac 13 inches and putting swampers on it... you just dont' do it

[Phil]

Originally posted by CUxj88
Jeeps go up not down, if that piece of stuff ever showed up or any other lowered jeep i'd make every attempt to slash their tires...it's just wrong that's like lifting a cadillac 13 inches and putting swampers on it... you just dont' do it
Ok, so:
1. You can't read that this forum isn't for bashing on people with different opinions.
2. You lash out violently against people with different opinions than your own.
3. It doesn't matter how well something is done, if you don't like it, it's a POS.

Oh yeah, and I edited your post. This isn't Pirate, watch what you type. No swearing.

[F. F.]

Originally posted by CUxj88
Jeeps go up not down, if that piece of s*** ever showed up or any other lowered jeep i'd make every attempt to slash their tires...it's just wrong that's like lifting a cadillac 13 inches and putting swampers on it... you just dont' do it

And with that, you have earned a "time out". Being rude is not tolerated. Stating that you would attempt to do damage to another person or their property in a big No No.

[Slip Kid]

that's like lifting a cadillac 13 inches and putting swampers on it


That would be very cool what are you talking about?

[cingtek]

gotta love the closed-mindedness around here.....:twak:

[JnJ]

Originally posted by cingtek
gotta love the closed-mindedness around here.....:twak:

Naw, it's just one idiot.....

[M. Lake]

Originally posted by CUxj88
Jeeps go up not down, if that piece of s*** ever showed up or any other lowered jeep i'd make every attempt to slash their tires...it's just wrong that's like lifting a cadillac 13 inches and putting swampers on it... you just dont' do it
Or taking a Lincoln and making it an SUV with a fold down tv with DVD.

Or taking a perfectly stock jeep and raising it. Buba, if jeep wanted your XJ with an 8" lift and 35" tires, it would come that way stock. Do you not get the concept of "MODS" and "CUSTOM", or how about "SOMETHING NEW"?

Fear Change, it does you good :angel: and keeps the whole world in track to your ideas. Wasn't there other people that believed that things should be a certain way and others had been killed becouse they were not that way, yes, hold on, oh yeah his name was HITLER :flame:

[Majo]

Sorry for my previous comments, I apologize if I angered people, shouldn't have posted what I did, but as now I can't take it back I apologized.

[woody]

Everyone please keep in mind that these forums are intended to be family friendly! If another person is into mods you care nothing for, just let it pass and don't comment. I see mods on XJs every day that I wouldn't wish on anyones (don't make me list them, I'll get the Willys), but it's the other Jeeper's thing, not mine so I tend to shaddup unless it's something grossly unsafe :)

This is the place to discuss performance & handling enhancements to the XJ & MJ, and the hi-lift crowd is very welcome to glean hot-rod tips over here.

Thanks & let's try to keep it fun for everybody! :D

87 MJ 2WD SWB
88 XJ 4WD Limited
89 XJ 4WD Pioneer
89 MJ 4WD Metric Ton
90 XJ 4WD Limited
4.0 litre Renix Rocks!
Colorado Red Sucks!

[RNMedic]

the Eagle brasckets will fit the 4.0 block the problem is the suspension the eagle has a very short Dana 30 mounted to the block and the frame but independent arms for the front and attaching those would be the fabricationproblem My old eagle block isinthe garage as the goal of a stroker .the eagle halfshafts may need to be upgraded fopr that and there was rumors that cadillac eldorado shafts may fit. good luck with it, John

[M. Lake]

Sorry to stick a fork in the gears of thinkin but, if we are talking about lowering it (like i was) and adding a massive motor (like i was) would the D30 from the Eagle not hold up to that much power? Some were in the 600-700 HP/TQ range. SBC maybe like the mero LS1 with a bunch of bolt ons and some internal work, dual turbos. Plus the weight of the block alone.

[RNMedic]

dunno in awd mode maybe, but then again?????

[Gecko]

Completely off topic, but I would like to say that I get the best of both worlds. When I'm done, or even get enough money to start (damn high school budget) I'll have an XJ lifted 6" or so with 33s or 35s, not too shabby and my best friend is building a '72 Oldsmobile Cutlass that will have a 600-700hp 440 CI small block stroker (maybe a 150 shot of NO2 on it cause hes using all forged steel parts). Then I can wheel all I want and smoke everyone in a race. :D

[Brian Felts]

There is hope for you I used to be a hardcore lowrider freak until i became a land owner my lowered S10 is sitinng under a tree collecting sap
dont go any where withot my cherokee. think ground clearance

[REDXJ4FUN]

Brian have not read the rest of this thread? go back and read just the 5th page and maybe you'll get a hint and read the topic at the top of the S and P page that dicusses the idea behind the fourm.

[JnJ]

Originally posted by Brian Felts
There is hope for you I used to be a hardcore lowrider freak until i became a land owner my lowered S10 is sitinng under a tree collecting sap
dont go any where withot my cherokee. think ground clearance


Some people just dont seem to think/read before opening their mouths (typing). :rolleyes:

[CW]

Originally posted by Forum Fixer
This forum has been created for people to discuss modification and tuning issues related to street XJ's.

This may include lowering XJ's, or just performance tuning a stock suspension XJ and more.

IF you do not care for this type of modification, that is fine. Bashing or rude comments towards posters will not be tolerated.

As always, the "Report This Post" feature is the best way to deal with a post that is out of line.

Enjoy the forum!

Maybe we should make this come up before you enter the forum and you must click a button that says you read it to enter. Maybe if we shove it in peoples faces they will get the idea. :confused:

[REDXJ4FUN]

LOL:D That not a bad idea. I love my jeeps no mater what they are. My limited is on 35 and beat to no end and i give it no mercy on the trail and when I build my soon to be 2 MJs one wild eat up the pavement and the others will eat the rocks.

[Eagle]

We probably need more people like Andy from PA, the NAC VP. He has a very big XJ -- and a 2WD semi-slammed MJ. Hey, it looks nice and he wasn't planning to wheel it anyway, so why not?

[dogtired]

Hmmm
What Ford parts fit on an XJ? I just got mine a few weeks ago... my first Jeep woohoo! I am discovering lots!

Originally posted by aspera


Third is aftermarket support and availablility. A bazillion Cherokees were made. Everybody has been making cheap parts for them for over a decade. Even Ford has unknowingly been making parts for the XJ.:) :cool:

[mark268]

Although my jeeps are lifted I am a fan of a nice lowered vehicle. I have years of lowrider hystory. Does anyone have any good pics of a lowered XJ ? I really like the SUV performance look, actually my favorite would be a 03 4 door blazer, but I can see the XJ looking similar/

[91XJlimited]

Back to the actual lowering concept....SUA would be the best route. Not only would it lower it, but still give it the same load bearing characteristics instead of giving it weak leaves, or less leaves. It wouldn't drop it to the ground, only the width of the axle. So maybe like 4"? I think you'd would have to drop the rear 4" for anyone to notice it anyways. Oh, and on the cutting coils....That's the way I would go too. The thing about calculating how much you cut off/how much it drops won't work because most coils have what you would call a "Dead Coil". Which is the top coil on any coil that I've ever cut. Let me know if you think something I said is wrong so I can make you feel dumb. Just kidding ;)

[Phil]

Originally posted by 91XJlimited
Back to the actual lowering concept....SUA would be the best route. Not only would it lower it, but still give it the same load bearing characteristics instead of giving it weak leaves, or less leaves. It wouldn't drop it to the ground, only the width of the axle. So maybe like 4"?
Naw dude, you're doing the opposite of what I'm doing next weekend, so let me spell out the way I see it. First, yeah, you've got your axle tubes, whether it's like 2.75" or 3" I dunno, depends on whether it's a D35 or an 8.25". Plus you've got the thickness of the leaf pack, so that's like another inch or so. Then you've got the old and new spring perches. Sure, on the bottom you could do basically a flat plate welded to the tube, but I think you'd still be about 1" between the two. So I'm seeing like 5" or so. Just a little bit more than 4", but I think you'd have to get creative with tire diameter and width, and wheel width and backspacing, and sheetmetal relocation to make it work. Oh yeah, and when you go SUA, the spring plate, and so U-bolt ends, are underneath the axle tube also. And you'd have to do raised shock mounts, I think, because they hang down kinda far on lifted XJs, forget about on lowered.

I think this may be my longest post, and it's on the street forum the night before I go on a snow run. Wow.

[M. Lake]

Portal axles flipped over........5" and same springs :D

Just kidding. :anon:

[Andy in Pa.]

We probably need more people like Andy from PA, the NAC VP. He has a very big XJ -- and a 2WD semi-slammed MJ. Hey, it looks nice and he wasn't planning to wheel it anyway, so why not?



I don't know Eagle, I am putting a D44 with a Lock-Right in it sometime soon, and I have been experiencing delusions of "Pre-Runner"-ing it recently. We'll see, it may end up getting lifted yet. In its lowered state it is very fun to drive on the back roads. I hope to hang that rear end out even easier in the corners with the rear locker.

Oh yeah, I do have that big XJ too, probably ought to wheel that thing some time soon.....

A.

[REDXJ4FUN]

Ok we need more tech on lowering now. my 2wd mj is begging for some mods.

[Eagle]

Ok we need more tech on lowering now. my 2wd mj is begging for some mods.
What's to know?

Front: Cut the coils. Just remember that when you cut a coil, the spring rate increases, so (a) the ride is more firm, and (b) if you cut off one complete coil, you don't get a drop equal to the full distance beween coils. It's best to be conservative when cutting. You can always cut more, but it's difficult to cut a spring longer.

Rear: Swap in XJ shackles, and remove the shortest leaf. (Not the overload leaf, the shortest of the arched leaves.)

[MalakaiKingston]

HOLY CRAP?!?!?!

you were not even kidding...

http://www.anti-rice.com/ricepics/stupidjeep.jpg

[sportsguy]

It actually handled worse because after a few short months my front shocks were dead some how so it felt like i was driving a boat on the road, i guess this could also be because the whole front end geometry was way off. Braking and traction in the rain and snow got considerably worse because the rear end was so much higher and lighter with no rear seat or spare tire or anything back there.
I'll venture a guess the handling got worse because of caster/camber changes (can't recall right now which is which, so I'll use both). Your tire basically titled in at the top making for slightly better overall cornering, but less of the contact patch on the road. This may also make the front end darty when steering - seeming to want to change direction *NOW*...

...the ride quality would have gone down as you effectively increased the rate of the spring by cutting it - resulting in a harsher ride - which is what toasted the shocks.

Grab some factory springs (lots of us don't want them any more, so they are free...:)) and look for drop spindles for the front end - and nope, I have no idea if they're even made for this app, but if they are, they are the way to lower the front end while maintaining all the factory geometry.

For the rear - find a kit made to replace your rear springs - better to go with an engineered kit for this than to ghetto-fab it (though this is just my opinion).

If you enjoy ghetto-ing as much as some of us do...

You could always get a set of springs re-arched negatively - though I have zero idea if this would work, nor have I ever seen it done - I was just brainstorming and that floated through my addled mind...

...and of course there is the ever popular coil conversions for lifting - just through in a short spring and your gold - GOLD, Jerry!

Take a look through my webshots albums for the Cherokee Rear Coil swap one of the guys in my club did not long ago - he grafted in the rear suspension from a Grand Cherokee - do that and find yourself a set of lowering springs for the rear end of a grand and *poof* - you're slammed my friend!

community.webshots.com/user/sports_guy (http://community.webshots.com/user/sports_guy)

...though it seems each idea I put down gets more complicated...LOL

FWIW, I've thought about dropping my 4" lift, grafting in the GC rear end and making my truck into a slightly lowered, coil sprung rally-style ride - fun for the daily commute - still good in the winter - and a holy terror on the fire-roads! Drop a 4.7 litre stroker into that and see who wants to play...LOL:canada:

[Stick]

HOLY CRAP?!?!?!

you were not even kidding...

http://www.anti-rice.com/ricepics/stupidjeep.jpg

http://www.anti-rice.com/ricepics/stupidjeep.jpg

A guy can only take so much... :puke:

[REDXJ4FUN]

I'll venture a guess the handling got worse because of caster/camber changes (can't recall right now which is which, so I'll use both). Your tire basically titled in at the top making for slightly better overall cornering, but less of the contact patch on the road. This may also make the front end darty when steering - seeming to want to change direction *NOW*...

...the ride quality would have gone down as you effectively increased the rate of the spring by cutting it - resulting in a harsher ride - which is what toasted the shocks.
Those are some of the issuse i'm working on right now. I'm goingto be making new control arms with poly bushing ends but the whole conrol arm angle has we wondering how to work that out. at one time a company used to make a drop knucles but they are no where to be found. I know Phil weeks had a thread bout moving the LA mounts in board and up awhile back. I hope to have some tech on this soon

[Brian Felts]

Sorry to whoever I offended,and I wasnt bashing anyone. what I said I said in love.Iwas merely stating my opinion as I am allowed to do by the constiution of the U.S.when my cherokee was stock with virtually nonexistent travel it rode like hell now w my 3 inch lift it rides much smoother.again just my humble opinion but taking away the xj s already limited travel would make for a very sore booty.oh and that useless POS of a rear sway bar you can have it all but the u bolt triangle brackets.The Sway bar is just a clever excuse for Jeep to package killer bar pin eliminators.As for me and my house we will lift our jeeps and beat the crap out of em.
Brian Felts President of the mall crawlers rehab society.Ha Ha :hang: :rattle:

[jeepinxj05]

make it bigger!!! it hurts me to think your gonna lower it

[Sarge]

make it bigger!!! it hurts me to think your gonna lower it

Then don't come read this forum.

Sarge

[sportsguy]

make it bigger!!! it hurts me to think your gonna lower it
OK, we need to have some kind of pre-post test to ensure folks get the simple fact that what you do to your Jeep is a personal choice and there's no need to rub it in to others if you don't agree with it.

That said, most of us found NAXJA because we wheeled our rigs. I'm thinking of lowering mine (by that I mean back to stock height) for better handling on-road.

I wonder how many of the folks bashing those who want to lower a rig have ever wheeled their own trucks stock? I have and I can say that (within limits) it was plenty fun and very capable. True, being lifted let's me do more off-road, but to each his own.

...and on topic now...

After some research, I'm thinking the best route to handling with these bricks is a fairly easy one:

Contact Addco about front & rear swaybar kits - they offer a set which is a step up in diameter over stock, so that'll help out with the body motions. Get a good quality set of shocks - street shocks - and again, that'll help.

After more research, it looks like 255/60/16's are the way to go for me - nice sized contact patch, decent sidewall so I don't rattle to death and offers rim protection, and fits the wheel well nicely.

On top of all that, we must remember two things:

1 - these things have solid front axles - they weren't designed with handling as the main concern
2 - swap in the 242 t-case (the one with the FullTime 4wd option) and go hunting...hehe

My plans would net me a truck with great year-round, everyday capabilities. Wouldn't look much different than a stocker, except the tires, but would handle much better, get me a little better fuel economy than I currently have and would still allow for lots of fun down the road when I *insert the inevitable here* - build a stroker...Hasta

[muduck18]

I wonder how many of the folks bashing those who want to lower a rig have ever wheeled their own trucks stock? I have and I can say that (within limits) it was plenty fun and very capable. True, being lifted let's me do more off-road, but to each his own.
:soapbox:

to each his own! Yes I agree!

truth is... like every one said the xj is a brick. and I am going to use a curse word but...
minivan gets better gas milage
My jeep is fast but every time i put it up against my frends WRX i get my but handed to me till we hit the trails. For work I have a ZJ that would have a very hard time keeping up with the new Ford Freestar mini van that we just got for the new guy...

BUt I understand the love of the Cherokee. its unexplainable...heh jeep thing i guess.


Then don't come read this forum.

Sarge
Thanks Sarge hadn't thought of that...:lecture:
People gotta understand though this forum is not the majority...

I want to know...
Ok now you have lowered your Xj...
Does it handle like you expected?
is it as fast as you wanted?


it's not my bag why make a brick fast when you can just buy a skipping stone?:dunno:
but hey I am interested to know how it turned out.

[Gridikal]

Jeeps go up not down, if that piece of s*** ever showed up or any other lowered jeep i'd make every attempt to slash their tires...it's just wrong that's like lifting a cadillac 13 inches and putting swampers on it... you just dont' do it:wstupid: I've seen a few caddys lifted that much- (escalades)- and the funny thing is even though they were ment for show- with all the money they have in 'em, they'd tear the crap outta my rig offroad:roflmao:

[jeephog]

Hey guys, I've been snooping around here for a while, just not posting. This has to be my favorite thread so far.

I"ve currently got a 91 xj with 4" of lift and 31's, but I"ve owned a lowered
S-10, and a few "massaged" civics. So, I can see the best of both worlds.
Talking about the Archer bros trucks brings back memories of watching them race on tv when I was a kid.

You guys are making me want to go find a nice MJ and make a nice little fun truck!!

Plus, when it comes to lowering automatically being "ricey", some of you guys ought to talk to some "hot rod" and muscle car guys about that. They started doing this long before most or all us around here were born.

Anyway, I'd love it if any of you guys found some old pics of the racing MJ's or quality lowered Jeep pics. I"ve seen a few Grands that were done very tastefully. I be those coils handle nicely, but that's another story.

Jeephog

[eric91xj]

just have to say damn, i started this thread about a year and a half ago when this forum had just started off and only a hangfull of threads had started. i've been gone from the site since then and just came back and i cannot believe the thread is still active! awsome

eric

[gzweber]

Wow, it sure is crazy how ****ed-off people get about someone making a jeep fast or lowering it. Well here is something that should really **** anyone off that has a lifted 4x4 jeep. I have an 89 xj with the 4.0, aw4 tranny and 242 t-case all of which worked perfectly. Well it all worked until I tore it down to the unibody. I just got a new 242 with 30,000 miles on it and guess what it's 2 wheel drive mwhaaaaa hahahahaaaa. It will turn my 20 inch rims very well indeed. I had custom perches and control arms made for my coil springs on my ford 9 inch rear and I used a Frankenstein-like combination of parts to convert my front end to independent suspension. If that wasn’t bad enough, it will be able to sit on the ground with its air ride suspension. So what am I going to do with my transfer case???? Well…I think I’m going to melt down the aluminum and use it to make some big emblems that say 2X4 and put them right on the side of my jeep.

[Sarge]

*grin* Lets get picky here. The badges should say 4x2 cause you have 4 wheels being driven by 2. In truth if you don't have a traction aiding device, it's a 4x1 in some instances. LOL!

Sarge

[REDXJ4FUN]

Its amazing after 8 pages of this tread we still have idiots coming in here and telling us were stupid for doing what we are. :doh: for those who want to tell me this look at my avitar and then say something. that jeep is going to be on 40s by spring. but as for my MJ its rediving a new clutch and a ax-5 to replace the ax-4 and it has a new B&M shifter for it :viking: . I also have a new elctric fan to replace the clutch fan to help free up some power and I'm going to do the 95/96 brake booster swap and zj rear disks.
I've been working on ideas to help keep the geometry up front corect when lowering. I'm buying a 98 2wd front axle to play with. This acomplishes a couple things. frist off I get newer brakes, since there isn't much out there for 89 2wd brakes I will be able to get some performance rotors since the later modles use the same parts for 2 and 4 wheel drive. A second goal of getting another axle is that i am going to relocate the control arm mounts lowering them from thier stock locations to bring the control arm angles to a reasonable position. I'm also building new control arms that are adjustable and maybe lighter but will have poly bushings.

[KinesthesiaDrums]

Wow, it sure is crazy how ****ed-off people get about someone making a jeep fast or lowering it. Well here is something that should really **** anyone off that has a lifted 4x4 jeep. I have an 89 xj with the 4.0, aw4 tranny and 242 t-case all of which worked perfectly. Well it all worked until I tore it down to the unibody. I just got a new 242 with 30,000 miles on it and guess what it's 2 wheel drive mwhaaaaa hahahahaaaa. It will turn my 20 inch rims very well indeed. I had custom perches and control arms made for my coil springs on my ford 9 inch rear and I used a Frankenstein-like combination of parts to convert my front end to independent suspension. If that wasn’t bad enough, it will be able to sit on the ground with its air ride suspension. So what am I going to do with my transfer case???? Well…I think I’m going to melt down the aluminum and use it to make some big emblems that say 2X4 and put them right on the side of my jeep.

damn dog...i wanna see pictures of this

[phaythe]

This is the forum that I've been looking for.
The XJ can be made to do almost anything. Obviously it can offroad, but it can race and drag too. It might even autoX!:D THAT would be something. I'd like to see a rally Cherokee, though. That would make everyone happy. It would be built for the road, but would sling gravel to make the offroaders happy.

Well I fell bad for coming to this thread late, but glad I'm here now :D

I am actually planning on RallyCrossing my XJ in a few weeks, however due to work constraints I may not be able to start until next season, since this is the last event of the year in my area (Oregon). But since you mention AutoX...I'll do it :D I can drift my Jeep better than most of the people I know who drive "drift cars" and that's just sad (granted, autoxing and drifting are only slightly related)...so I'll look into the next upcoming autox event and go for it...

And I know of at least one person that has RX'd his XJ, however he has now gone big time with a fully built VW Rabbit. There are a few people that race Grands in this region too, but seem to be fickle about it, I havn't noticed anyone who actually finishes out the season :/

But myself I am planning on building up an XJ for ClubRally (not just rallycross), an XJ for JeepSpeed and an XJ as a street/drag truck complete with a central computer system that controls the entire damn truck from entertainment to engine management...I've also had the thought to build up a ZJ running a 2JZ (Supra engine for those not in the know, but that's a topic for another forum ;) Is there a NAZJA? hehe)

So to bring myself to the topic at and, this definitely intrigues me...I'm not too sure about the whole independent suspension swaps idea, however, as it has always been my idea to keep it as "Jeep" as possible. Same thinking that forces me to use a 4.0 (stroked, however) for my future drag truck...Everyone always asks why I don't just drop in a big block chevy to begin with...but...best way to describe it, as with most of our choices...It's a Jeep thing! So the ideas here about lowering on the stock front and rear end I will definitely have to consider...

And as for the naysayers...To them I say, you're just jealous because my stock height XJ will outrun you in the 1/4 mile and I can still drive well enough to get through more obstalces on the trail than you can on your 31"s :P

[CW]

Jeeps come with v8's. The 360ci, 4.7L, 5.2L, 5.9L etc......

[highhilleer]

I've also installed the front air dam from a '91 GMC Jimmy. This has reduced front end lift to make the Jeep noticeably more stable at speed and in crosswinds.


I have really studied your web page and saw that you added an air dam but did not know the source. Did you do a write up that I missed???

Your page is inspiring. I was looking for a vehicle that responds well to mods and your page is one of the reasons leading to the Cherokee decision. I haven't driven my Cherokee 10 miles yet (damn work) but am itching to start the mods.

[aspera]

But since you mention AutoX...I'll do it :D


I've also had the thought to build up a ZJ running a 2JZ (Supra engine for those not in the know, but that's a topic for another forum ;) Is there a NAZJA? hehe)



XJ might not be allowed to autox, because it is an SUV...and could roll. I think that is a local rule, not sure.

Supra engine sounds logical to me. XJ automatic is nearly the Supra tranny, and they are both inline 6's. Remove the 200hp-ish 4.0L and install a 320hp+ turbo 3.0L. Is the 2JZ the one that can handle 500hp mods easily? If nothing else, do it for the sound. I'd love to have a Jeep that had a 7000RPM redline and a blowoff valve. PSHHHT

[phaythe]

XJ might not be allowed to autox, because it is an SUV...and could roll. I think that is a local rule, not sure.

Supra engine sounds logical to me. XJ automatic is nearly the Supra tranny, and they are both inline 6's. Remove the 200hp-ish 4.0L and install a 320hp+ turbo 3.0L. Is the 2JZ the one that can handle 500hp mods easily? If nothing else, do it for the sound. I'd love to have a Jeep that had a 7000RPM redline and a blowoff valve. PSHHHT

True, didn't think about that. There's a special Truck/SUV class in RallyX...but if possible...I WILL :)

And the 2JZ can handle well over 1000hp with forged components...but yeah about 500 or so on the stock bottom end...It would be a fairly stright forward swap in reality...if I had the money to do it, I'd consider it, but right now I'm just a starving student...

And also, my 4.0 (well, 4.6...) will have a 7000rpm redline and a blowoff valve when I'm done ;)

[96_XJ_Country]

And the 2JZ can handle well over 1000hp with forged components...but yeah about 500 or so on the stock bottom end...It would be a fairly stright forward swap in reality...if I had the money to do it, I'd consider it, but right now I'm just a starving student...
my new life goal is to put a 2JZ into an XJ.:idea:
Edit: sorry, didn't notice this is a 4 year old thread. Not sure what the R&R's are for bumping old threads, maybe it needs to be resurrected!

[Timmy2XJS]

well i happen to have stumbled in to this and i want to see what this project turned into.i too have pondered a nasty street jeep.

[sharq]

ive never seen a lowered XJ that i liked. anyone got some pics of it done right?

[seanyb505]

http://webmail.aol.com/38575/aim/en-us/Mail/get-attachment.aspx?uid=1.22063508&folder=Inbox&partId=2

Said cut coil springs and sagging rear end. About a 1.25-1.5 drop all around. It since has 16" libby rims, and will soon have 255/55/16 tires to complete the look.

[gradon]

Here's mine w/ the 2" drop:http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg166/gradons/00001-2.jpg

[96_XJ_Country]

that looks sweet man, did you cut the front and take a leaf on in back?

[gradon]

I bought custom springs from Springworks in Cali. If I were to do it again, I'd chop up some new f-150 or t-bird coils for the front and maybe attempt a SUA with some new HD leaves for the rear.

[seanyb505]

Went and took a pic with the 16" KJ rims.
http://webmail.aol.com/38575/aim/en-us/Mail/get-attachment.aspx?uid=1.22079668&folder=Inbox&partId=5

[96_XJ_Country]

sorry, what exactly is an SUA?

[seanyb505]

Spring Under Axle. In our XJs the leaf springs rest on top of the axle shaft. If you relocate the springs to be under the axle, it would sit about 4-5 inches lower.

[sharq]

MJ's are SUA. if you score a rear end from one it should be a direct swap.

4 or 5 inches a whole lot of drop. what size tire would you have to run for it to fit. seems silly low.

[seanyb505]

You would have to raise it 2-3 inches, so the total drop would be 2-3 inches. You can only go so low on front or youll hit the oil pan, so you would want to only match it in back. I thought the shock mounts are different on an MJ....Or there is some reason you cant use them. I could be wrong.

[gradon]

Yeah 5-6" is too much, which is why I ordered 2.5"(but got 2"). 3" would have been perfect(for the way I want it to look). I am also running 27" tires(255/60/15) so that makes it sit 1/2" lower and makes the gap b/t tire and flare 1/2" bigger as opposed to a 28" tire.

[96_XJ_Country]

seanyb505, did you order custom springs for the front AND back?

[seanyb505]

lol If by custom you mean XJ leaf springs will sag when they get old than yes. The rears just naturally sag. In time I will look into SUA or actual lowering springs to get a better ride. Leaf springs so soft they dont keep the car at ride height arent great for carving corners. Front I just cut the bottom coil off the front spring. I didnt even take it off the Jeep.

[streetpirate]

You would have to raise it 2-3 inches, so the total drop would be 2-3 inches. You can only go so low on front or youll hit the oil pan, so you would want to only match it in back. I thought the shock mounts are different on an MJ....Or there is some reason you cant use them. I could be wrong.

x2 on both, to do any more you would need a dropped front axle and maybe slightly moved upper control arm mounts for oil pan clearance.

this is a front axle someone made custom for a v8 conversion drag xj. its on another forum and I can get the link tomarrow for the rest of the build.
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d75/streetpirate2/l_45ca497593d470dbc5a5533e824f093a.jpg
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d75/streetpirate2/l_1e14619b93c1704653eaf9d1d0827b88.jpg

[96_XJ_Country]

sorry, i meant to ask gradon about the custom springs

[streetpirate]

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=271870

[gradon]

I ordered the springs from springworks in cali(opposite coast). If I was to do it again, I'd buy some HD leaves, have them de-arched to taste, and some new coils, which are easy enough to cut down and would've used the saved $500 on other mods.

[seanyb505]

By de-arched do you mean just let it sit for 10 yrs and have them sag?

On a more serious note, Ive heard certain F150 springs fit XJs and can be cut to lower the ride height and stiffen the ride considerably.

[gradon]

Yeah f-150 and t-bird springs can be cut to taste and provide higher spring rates. I had to get the rt rr custom spring de-arched an inch($20 from a co. that puts together leaves for internationals, semis, etc). Before that, I tried swapping the leaves and nothing changed, so I have no clue as to why that side sat higher. I also had an idea of drilling holes an inch higher on the shackles to bring it down some more.

[wolfpackjeeper]

for some reason I want to say an MJ has wider spring perches as well, not sure where the idea is coming from, but the idea stands out pretty strongly.

[Fastdemise]

I've been wanting to make my XJ more 'streetable'. Deffinantely waiting of the extra $$ for the addco swaybars for the added stability of being able to turn the wheel to dodge the car BEFORE i hit it. I gotta say the body sway even on a stocker is pretty severe I have deep pity for those with lifts and even more sway. Great idea I picked up on the 255/60/15. Was actually wanting to grab better street tires since I am always driving highway and without ABS I could always use more rubber on the road. It's cool to read people's ideas and see pics of others that have 'street' mod'd their jeep.

[wolfpackjeeper]

couple of things:

If you go to the yard, I believe the GC swaybar is 28mm, so is the addco. And I think there are a couple of varieties of cherokees with a 28mm bar. So you do not need to spend the extra money if you do not want to.

you do not want abs. You will always stop quicker without it. You just need to know how to correctly use your brakes ina crash stop situation, and you need to be able to control a skid/slide.

I am working on a street comanche. I will be going with a 225, 50 or 60, r15 tire in the front and a 245/60/r15 out back. I am cutting the stock springs, and lowering the rear with an xj shackle. Making a bed cover that sits inside the rails. I already tinted the windows. I will also be trying my hand at a rollpan soon. I also have a 2500 front end on the way. The next round will be a 4.7 stroker with either a ax15 or a munci 4speed and a 9" out back

[Hawk]

may have already been said, but spring it under, and get an add-a-leaf to lift it back up to level it.

[mudracer]

trailmaster make lowering springs for the xj!

partnumbers in germany:

kit S08229
frt.springs 76008
leafs 77114

[seanyb505]

Pics and/or links please!

[mudracer]

http://www.trailmaster.de/

[mudracer]

http://up.picr.de/1488157.jpg

that is my xj with the trailmaster frontsprings and saggy rear leafs.
tires 255/45/17

[ausi02]

I know this whole thread is about being different and stuff... But where are the pics? In like 11 pages of thread there are like 2 or 3 pics... Maybe if distasteful comments were ignored more relative ones could be posted.
I personally wouldn't lower a Jeep but whatever floats your boat. Tolerance isn't believing agreeing with every opinion its allowing people to think what they want and let them speak their mind.

[wolfpackjeeper]

because most of this thread was talking about how to lower one. I personally do not care for a lowered XJ, but I love the look of a lowered MJ, which is what I am working on. I will try to have some pictures for you inside of a week or so.

[gradon]

Hey mudracer, can you take 360* pics of the above xj and also interior pics(door panels, dash, seats, steering wheel), and engine bay and post them? Thanks

[REDXJ4FUN]

I second gradon, I'd love to see some more pics. I have a freind in germany and a local shop that is checking on those part numbers for me

[Talyn]

that is my xj with the trailmaster frontsprings and saggy rear leafs.
tires 255/45/17

Stealth edition?

[wolfpackjeeper]

needs some window tint, it just hit me, it just did not look quite right in my head. the clear windows and the angle of the shot were messing with me

[gradon]

That is a stealth edition or has the ground effects of one. I just wanted him to show yall the nice leather interior, the door panels, 125mph/200kph speedo, steering wheel and who knows what other differences. My brother stripped a euro xj when he was stationed in England. I got the speedo and steering wheel, he kept the seats and door panels. I wouldn't mind having the front airdam/bumper cover. Here's 2 of the stealths on ebay.uk:
http://shop.ebay.co.uk/items/_W0QQ_nkwZstealthQ20cherokeeQQ_armrsZ1QQ_fromZR40Q Q_mdoZ

[88JeepXJ]

I have never in my 12 years owning and working on Jeeps heard about this "JEEP CHEROKEE STEALTH"! Huh, very cool! Why in the heck didn't Chrysler produce any special editions XJs in the 18 years selling them in the US??!?!?!

Anyway, where they just a body kit / style thing or did they have stiffer/lower springs? Was the rear exhaust standard or was that an aftermarket one on eBay.uk?

Back OT: I'm going to be building a race XJ this Winter and want to find out some info. I've rear this thread over the last two days and have some questions.
1. How low can you go without running into complications with the Front UCAs? (it is a 2wd if that matters)
2. How wide of a tire can you go in the rear? I know this is in relation to the height but lets say it goes down 3". How much tire could we fit?

Anymore lowered XJ pictures?

[REDXJ4FUN]

I have a front aridamn that looks alot like that, i belive it was made for the mjs when they road raced them. I'll see if i can get a pic of it when i go out to my shop next time. it caps over the ends of the bumper and looks pretty cool. I have been holding on to it for doing a lowered mj but I keep getting into diffrent projects and my 2wd XJ will be getting a 2500 front end.

[gradon]

Mine's down 2" and I am running 255/60/15s on stock rims w/ 5.25" backspace. Mine could go down another inch or so w/o problems and I know I could fit 265s w/ minor rubbing at full lock but not sure of 275s. I should take a pic of the clearance from the rr leaf--it's around an inch.
edit: I should take a short drive down there.

[mudracer]

it´s a regular limited with the bodykit of the performance, in england called stealth.
i have only some older pics

http://up.picr.de/1523704.jpg

http://up.picr.de/1523705.jpg

http://up.picr.de/1523707.jpg

[gradon]

I like the smoked corners, but not the side marker.

[mudracer]

i know, the sidemarkers looks smoked but they aren´t, anyway now i have white ones.
at the weekend i make new photos and i´ll post them.

[88JeepXJ]

Are the wheels 15x8?>

[seanyb505]

It makes me angry there isnt really a similar air dam for 97+.

[gradon]

The alum 5-stars I have measure 15x8", but are marked 15x7j. If I ever bought new rims, I'd get 17x8s and put 255/45 or 50s on it.

[mudracer]

Are the wheels 15x8?>

yes,in the older pics the wheels are 15x8 with 225/70/15.
in the first pic the wheels are 17x7,5 with 255/45/17

[Fastdemise]

What about using 275/60R15 or whatever size rims you have? They are nearly exactly the same size as the stock sized tires 225/75 and are 10.5" wide. But maybe too wide and could rub at full turn.

[wolfpackjeeper]

I plan on running a 275 series in the back eventually, but I am keeping a skinny up front.

[Fastdemise]

That ain't a bad idea. I personally always thought of the wider tire in the rear, skinny up front was always for race cars or really bad ass street cars. But I would love to see a Jeep like that.

[seanyb505]

Skinny upfront is used to neutralize handling. XJs push like crazy, so I dont think there will be much benefit to running skinnier (relative to the back) tires up front. Straight-line performance is a different story, but I dont think were looking only for straight-line by lowering the vehicle.

[88JeepXJ]

Wider tires are used for a few different reasons. Typically on street cars from the factory, wider rear tires are used to add additional contact area to promote understeer. It is seen as safer for a car to be tuned to understeer, so on higher HP RWD cars they put bigger meats in the back. My M3 for example came from the factory with 245s in the rear and 225s in the front, and I've replaced those with 235s all around to promote a more neutral handling character.

For drag racing you are often traction limited to the drive wheels (front or rear) so you would put wider tires to increase potential grip, and to decrease rolling resistance you could put skinnier tires to the non drive wheels. This is why you see "bad ass" RWD street cars with huge tires on the rear and tiny ones on the front. This isn't good if you plan on turning corners though ;)

Unless your XJ has a lot more HP than stock, putting bigger tires on the rear is totally just for the looks and will actually make it understeer even more than it already does from the factory (which is a lot).

[wolfpackjeeper]

i have skinny tires all around because I do not have power steering right now. And I am kinda thinking of making it a drag comanche

[REDXJ4FUN]

In a chassis book I had years ago regarding race cars, most experts say that its best to put the widest tire you can fit and then use swaybars to adjust the handling to suit your needs. so in other words put a big sway bar in the back and you can balance the handling back out after putting a wider tire out back.

[mudracer]

new pics

http://up.picr.de/1556812.jpg

http://up.picr.de/1556813.jpg

http://up.picr.de/1556814.jpg

[88JeepXJ]

What's the lowest anyone has dropped an XJ? The factory did it on the Comanche for racing but I'm not sure if they used stock front suspension or a completely re engineered setup.

[wolfpackjeeper]

it looked pretty stock. It was SCCA so I think it had to at least be the same design.

[GrimmJeeper]

How about converting it to spring under, like the MJ setup? anyone try that?

[Skits]

My act of attrition:

You guys might want to look into sprint car front suspensions, as many of them are solid axle. They're sprung with torsion bars and the steering is kinda wacky, but you might get some ideas.

http://www.jjmotorsportsnews.com/Mvc-023s.jpg

Steering:

http://www.jjmotorsportsnews.com/Mvc-021s.jpg

[Skits]

And this thread:

http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=87268

[XJEEPER]

Interesting modification of a stock beam axle to allow for V8 clearance, would also work for lowering......and a V8 swap. http://home.comcast.net/~lakeviewcruiser/pwpimages/8-21-05%20Installed%20front%20axel%20and%20door%20net.J PG?PHPSESSID=047c1bd62bbf948eb66cdca2b142d437

http://home.comcast.net/~lakeviewcruiser/pwpimages/8-21-05%20Installed%20front%20axel%20and%20door%20net.J PG?PHPSESSID=047c1bd62bbf948eb66cdca2b142d437

I like the dropped beam axle built with DOM and pressed into the factory knuckle idea better.

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d75/streetpirate2/l_1e14619b93c1704653eaf9d1d0827b88.jpg

[aspera]

http://www.artmorrison.com/gallery/view_photo.php?set_albumName=Camaro-FrontClip&id=MG_3291


Entire front subframe FTW!

[wolfpackjeeper]

yes, but grafting that it may be harder than just setting up your own IFS setup in the first place. They work great for making hotrods out of old trucks, and setting up a camaro something nice though.

[seanyb505]

I like the motor mounts in the v8 pick. Crap load of washers :D

[bjoehandley]

I'm liking the dropped beam axle better, that first one seems like it belongs on that scary steering website.

[XJEEPER]

I like the motor mounts in the v8 pick. Crap load of washers :D

Caught that myself, but the shot was obviously taken during a work in progress.....note no fuel lines to the pump. BTW, this truck has run 168mph on El Mirage.
http://home.comcast.net/~lakeviewcruiser/site/

[XJEEPER]

http://www.artmorrison.com/gallery/view_photo.php?set_albumName=Camaro-FrontClip&id=MG_3291


Entire front subframe FTW!

Very sexy and $$$'y too.

[MaxxXJ]

i didnt read the other 13 pages of posts, but im sure you can find lowered springs or cut em to be drastic, or buy some custom coil overs that lower the xj, then just do a flip kit in the rear so that the leafs sit under the axle, thats an instant 4" drop, do some heavy duty sway bars front and rear find some shorter shocks and you should be set

[XJEEPER]

i didnt read the other 13 pages of posts, but im sure you can find lowered springs or cut em to be drastic, or buy some custom coil overs that lower the xj, then just do a flip kit in the rear so that the leafs sit under the axle, thats an instant 4" drop, do some heavy duty sway bars front and rear find some shorter shocks and you should be set

Um, no. Education is your friend. :smootch:

[wolfpackjeeper]

i didnt read the other 13 pages of posts, but im sure you can find lowered springs or cut em to be drastic, or buy some custom coil overs that lower the xj, then just do a flip kit in the rear so that the leafs sit under the axle, thats an instant 4" drop, do some heavy duty sway bars front and rear find some shorter shocks and you should be set

the other 13 pages go over the problems of doing just that

[MaxxXJ]

sorry read below

[MaxxXJ]

the other 13 pages go over the problems of doing just that
my bad...
Um, no. Education is your friend. :smootch:


thats just how they roll in the mini truck world... it never crossed my mind to lower a 4wd jeep, thats like wiping before ya poop it just never made sense to me.

[REDXJ4FUN]

my bad...



thats just how they roll in the mini truck world... it never crossed my mind to lower a 4wd jeep, thats like wiping before ya poop it just never made sense to me.

Well if thats your mind frame why did you even bother to post here in this thread. I will have some good info on what it realy takes to drop these things.

[88JeepXJ]

OK guys back on topic. No need for a pissing contest. I cut my front springs two full coils and got about 2.25" drop in my 2wd 4.0L so that's a good starting point. I'm looking for shorter shocks now. Any ideas?

No I just need to figure out a way to only get about 3" drop in the rear. We are thinking about making a stiffer leaf pack and spring under.

[MaxxXJ]

OK guys back on topic. No need for a pissing contest. I cut my front springs two full coils and got about 2.25" drop in my 2wd 4.0L so that's a good starting point. I'm looking for shorter shocks now. Any ideas?

No I just need to figure out a way to only get about 3" drop in the rear. We are thinking about making a stiffer leaf pack and spring under.


i dont do pissing contests anymore... i just let things go, anyway i gave my opinion and that was all, thats how i'd lower my 84 chevy truck, without doing some conversion kits for the front like this http://store.jksmfg.com/merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=SHOCKCONV&Store_Code=JKS01&Category_Code=Shock

http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=989252
this thread here is for lifted jeeps but same idea applys to doing a conversion kit you just need to find a lowered shock from say nitro shocks. you just need to fully compress ur suspension to the bump stops, measure, then fully extend, measure and find what shocks will work. if ur going to have more up travel then the shocks will do, i'd maybe suggest limiting straps so you dont rip a shock out of its body.

but these are just my opinions and what i'd consider doing with my shock setup if i was going to lower a 2wd xj.

[boatdude13]

does any one know where to buy smaller bump stops so i don't have to keep or cut my failing stock ones? also no one really mentioned coil spring clamps.

[REDXJ4FUN]

I haven't looked yet for a short bump stop yet.. I'm cutting the bumpstop mounts and replacing them with airbags. theres a bunch of things to be figured out yet.. the stock sterring damper has to be relocated to get much lower. Oh ya and i've never been a big fan of coil clamps I have seen them pop and unload.. not pretty

[bigdaddyjlove]

OK guys back on topic. No need for a pissing contest. I cut my front springs two full coils and got about 2.25" drop in my 2wd 4.0L so that's a good starting point. I'm looking for shorter shocks now. Any ideas?

No I just need to figure out a way to only get about 3" drop in the rear. We are thinking about making a stiffer leaf pack and spring under.


This is similar to what I am planning.
Im thinking bastard lift but convert to SUA (Ford 8.8) 3" - 3 1/2" lif with a 5" drop shoudl give about a 2" drop overall.

Thoughts?

[88JeepXJ]

Well the axle is about 3.25", the perch is another .5" and the leaf pack is another 1", so yeah I guess it could be almost 5" drop for SU...uh oh :)

[brad0069]

from what I understand if you use the REAR coils out of a v8 grand cherokee you will get about a 3" drop in the front. Picked up a set but haven't put them in my comanche yet.

[88JeepXJ]

from what I understand if you use the REAR coils out of a v8 grand cherokee you will get about a 3" drop in the front. Picked up a set but haven't put them in my comanche yet.

I find that hard to believe, but I really don't know.

[GrimmJeeper]

I find that hard to believe, but I really don't know.

why hard to believe? the ZJ rear coils are shorter than the fronts :dunno:

[wolfpackjeeper]

why hard to believe? the ZJ rear coils are shorter than the fronts :dunno:


I have a set painted and ready to go in my MJ, they are much shorter than the front, with a tighter coil wrap as well

[88JeepXJ]

I have a set painted and ready to go in my MJ, they are much shorter than the front, with a tighter coil wrap as well

Let me know how much is drops. Any idea on the spring rate?

[wolfpackjeeper]

supposedly kinda harsh. It will be a bit before I get a chance to install them.

[hubs97xj]

Regarding the spring rates, there's a thread around here somewhere with the various heights, wire diameters, and rates- I stumbled across it the other day trying to cross-reference ZJ spring numbers. With some searching you should be able to find it or another (might even have been on Pirate- if I could find it again, I'd post the link).

[streetpirate]

http://www.proshocks.com/calcs/coilsprate.htm

[wolfpackjeeper]

nice, should be handy

[Rock2pus]

as a lifted guy who just recently did a rear coil conversion on his own, and has a bit of experience with the road too ( SCCA member and autocrosser, with a class championship and Rookie of the Year under my belt, with a slammed Nissan pickup, no less), I can tell you with all confidence that any tj front spring will give you exactly 1-1/4" LESS ride height than an XJ spring...xj's are longer, I imagine because of the unitbody constuction giving a little more wiggle room..keep up the quests, I like the idea of a street sleeper xj...they can be made to handle very well( hell I run away from idiot commuters on highway ramps lifted 7" on 35's!)......

[brad0069]

How about for the back doing a sua conversion which is about 5" then using a mj shackle to give you about a 1" lift giving you 4" in back combined with the zj springs in the front for 3" giving a nice 3/4 drop. you could also use the air lift in coil bag in front to stiffen the spring as needed

[gradon]

That's pretty much what you have to do to get the rear down more than 2": SUA&taller shackle, cause 5" is too low. 3-4" is a nice stance and you can still go over curbs when need be.

[bjoehandley]

as a lifted guy who just recently did a rear coil conversion on his own, and has a bit of experience with the road too ( SCCA member and autocrosser, with a class championship and Rookie of the Year under my belt, with a slammed Nissan pickup, no less), I can tell you with all confidence that any tj front spring will give you exactly 1-1/4" LESS ride height than an XJ spring...xj's are longer, I imagine because of the unitbody constuction giving a little more wiggle room..keep up the quests, I like the idea of a street sleeper xj...they can be made to handle very well( hell I run away from idiot commuters on highway ramps lifted 7" on 35's!)......

That could be interesting, got to thinking about it and wondered if it would be possile to modify a 242 so you could run in the 4low gear set with the center diff unlocked like in full time mode at the same time instead of locked like you'd get in part time or regular 4Lo.

[88JeepXJ]

That's pretty much what you have to do to get the rear down more than 2": SUA&taller shackle, cause 5" is too low. 3-4" is a nice stance and you can still go over curbs when need be.

Hey what do you run for shocks? What other vehicles run a similar shock setup to an XJ but have a lot shorter shocks?

[wolfpackjeeper]

rangers I think, I would just plan on just buying your shocks based on length and not worry about anything else.

[gradon]

I'm running stock xj bilsteins, which only have 1.5" of travel available at the moment(my ride is stiff--I also have stiffer springs). I actually was just thinking about emailing bilstein a few weeks ago to find out what app would get me a couple more inches of travel, as well as what I could use for the steering stabilizer(tired of looking at the rancho). It would have to have the stud up front and the bar in the back. Another thing on the backburner(oh that M3 is still the same distance away. . .)

[WrensWhiteXJ]

it´s a regular limited with the bodykit of the performance, in england called stealth.
i have only some older pics

http://up.picr.de/1523704.jpg

http://up.picr.de/1523705.jpg

http://up.picr.de/1523707.jpg
is that a body kit where did u get that ???????????????? i want ONE!

[88JeepXJ]

is that a body kit where did u get that ???????????????? i want ONE!

Seriously? Read the text you quoted...

It is a model sold in Europe called the Stealth.

It would be cool if someone copied the front bumper though. I'd get one for the race Jeep.

[seanyb505]

Im working on something similar right now. Taking the chin spoiler from an old Volvo GL and fitting it to the XJ bumper. It will look similar to the Stealth bumper.

[88JeepXJ]

Im working on something similar right now. Taking the chin spoiler from an old Volvo GL and fitting it to the XJ bumper. It will look similar to the Stealth bumper.

Good idea, pictures?

So does anyone know how stiff a leaf pack would be if you combined one stock leaf pack with the two longest leafs of a second stock leaf pack? Once I do the spring under I I need to gain about an inch of lift and I want it to be a LOT stiffer. Any cheap way to make a leaf pack a lot stiffer?

[wolfpackjeeper]

Any cheap way to make a leaf pack a lot stiffer?

weld a piece of angle iron to it.

[GT MOTORSPORTS]

Rock2pus,
you got any pics of that nissan? Im building a scca nissan truck also. Im running 17x7 with a 225 40 and a 17x8 with a 245 40 tire.

I dig the idea of a auto x cherokee. I have discussed this with a few road race buddies while working on my esp camaro.

What if you ran an add-a-leaf instead of a shackle. That should stiffen up the rear a lil more.

For shocks check out qa-1 as they offer many of there shocks with any combo of pin, eye,and t bar. Get me a demension at ride hieght and I can get you a partnumber if youd like. Check out a few dirt track suppliers. we run a dirt modified and we use speedway motors out in lincoln,nebraska for parts. there catologs are free and have plenty of shock demensions in there. They also have leave springs with the spring rates listed. They my not work in complete form in an xj but may they could call there supplier and have some custom made. same goes for the front springs. They have a ton of front spring rates.

Hope some of my rambling helps.

[Collin]

Thought I would share some photoshops I did right after I got my 91 XJ.

Widened the wheels, and dropped it till it sat flush. I thought it looked really cool, but I've received nothing but negative feedback on other forums.

Landrover style:
http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn198/radiocammbodia/myjeepJPG.jpg

Road racer:
http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn198/radiocammbodia/myjeepJPG2.jpg

[GrimmJeeper]

a chop i did while back when someone on here was showing off his 18" charger wheels...

lowered:
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w37/grimmpics/photoshops/Bling005.jpg

bling bling:
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w37/grimmpics/photoshops/Bling005_pimp.jpg

[88JeepXJ]

Thought I would share some photoshops I did right after I got my 91 XJ.

Widened the wheels, and dropped it till it sat flush. I thought it looked really cool, but I've received nothing but negative feedback on other forums.

Wow you're pretty good at that, those look cool. Any chance you could do a white 2dr w/o roof rack? It will be lowered a little more than you have and the tires will be tucked in the fenders a little more.

[GrimmJeeper]

:hang:

[Jays siik xj]

LMFAO!!!!!!
Eff Jeepspeed... Im getting me some gold dub4s!!!

[urban yan]

a chop i did while back when someone on here was showing off his 18" charger wheels...

bling bling:
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w37/grimmpics/photoshops/Bling005_pimp.jpg

not bad. my turn.
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb146/urban-yan/humor/clownXJ.jpg

[GrimmJeeper]

nice :D i like the gold tint and the cleanup of the the voids in the rims i was too lazy to clip out ;)

im not really diggin the clown tho, its a little creepy :D

edit: i just noticed the pink lugnuts, drums, logos, and calipers. you have way too much free time haha :cheers:

[Collin]

Wow you're pretty good at that, those look cool. Any chance you could do a white 2dr w/o roof rack? It will be lowered a little more than you have and the tires will be tucked in the fenders a little more.

If you can find me a photo of a white two door with a roof rack, sure. The higher res the better, and nothing directly into the sun please (ie no lense flares).

[CherBear]

This thread is full of awsome.

[88JeepXJ]

If you can find me a photo of a white two door with a roof rack, sure. The higher res the better, and nothing directly into the sun please (ie no lense flares).

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2006-1/1129690/tn_1995XJ-Start.jpg (http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2006-1/1129690/1995XJ-Start.jpg)

Thanks

[Andru_PR]

have you lowered the XJ ?

[88JeepXJ]

Here is a little something for your imagination. Gotta start somewhere right? So we start in the front.
Stock
http://i674.photobucket.com/albums/vv108/bmwme/IMG_1554.jpg
Camber (that's 2.5 degrees overall)
http://i674.photobucket.com/albums/vv108/bmwme/IMG_1563.jpg
Engine Clearance
http://i674.photobucket.com/albums/vv108/bmwme/IMG_1569.jpg
LCA Lowering Bracket and lower UCA mount
http://i674.photobucket.com/albums/vv108/bmwme/IMG_1573.jpg
Completed
http://i674.photobucket.com/albums/vv108/bmwme/IMG_1575.jpg

[Ndru]

NICE JOB, I'm glad somebody finally hacked on a front axle. I've been wanting to do that for a while . How much drop do you think you'll get now? What springs are you going to use? What's the plan got the back ? Stick with leaves or a 4 link? Did you take out more camber for handling or for clearance?

[88JeepXJ]

NICE JOB, I'm glad somebody finally hacked on a front axle. I've been wanting to do that for a while . How much drop do you think you'll get now? What springs are you going to use? What's the plan got the back ? Stick with leaves or a 4 link? Did you take out more camber for handling or for clearance?

We'll probably go 3.5-4 inches, the camber was for handling, the clearanced section is for the drop. Even at 4" with stiff springs you probably shouldn't hit the pan but we aren't sure of our final spring rates so we wanted another inch or two of clearance. We'll likely go with cut F150 springs... in the 400 lb/inch range.

Out back is another story. We are sticking with the leaf pack for now, we'll see. Finding more spring rate with leaf packs isn't cheap...stay tuned.

[supernatural]

i can not believe this thread. :shaking:

[Darky]

Looking good, I like the clearanced axle. Are you staying spring over or going spring under? That alone would probably give you right about 5" out back. I'd imagine the leafs from a Dakota or S10 added in would help with spring rate since they're designed to carry a heavier load than XJ leafs.

[88JeepXJ]

i can not believe this thread. :shaking:

Open up your mind, and listen to your mom's advice (if you don't have anything good to say...).

Don't go pretending lowering a 2wd XJ is crime.

[88JeepXJ]

Looking good, I like the clearanced axle. Are you staying spring over or going spring under? That alone would probably give you right about 5" out back. I'd imagine the leafs from a Dakota or S10 added in would help with spring rate since they're designed to carry a heavier load than XJ leafs.

Spring under a Ford 8.8 with LSD, disks and 3.73 gearing. With the SU and higher rate leaf packs we are hoping to be around the same 3.5" drop as the front.

[bjoehandley]

Here is a little something for your imagination. Gotta start somewhere right? So we start in the front.
Stock
http://i674.photobucket.com/albums/vv108/bmwme/IMG_1554.jpg
Camber (that's 2.5 degrees overall)
http://i674.photobucket.com/albums/vv108/bmwme/IMG_1563.jpg
Engine Clearance
http://i674.photobucket.com/albums/vv108/bmwme/IMG_1569.jpg
LCA Lowering Bracket and lower UCA mount
http://i674.photobucket.com/albums/vv108/bmwme/IMG_1573.jpg
Completed
http://i674.photobucket.com/albums/vv108/bmwme/IMG_1575.jpg

Looks good, it did take me a minute to figure out why in the hell you sliced open the axle after modded it for camber.......guess I've read too many street rod mags where some of the lowering is done at the ends of the axle:dunno:

[Timmy2XJS]

Open up your mind, and listen to your mom's advice (if you don't have anything good to say...).

Don't go pretending lowering a 2wd XJ is crime.


if i had a 2wd XJ id down with lowering it. hell a low slung jet black sleeper XJ just sounds sexy to me :D

but all of mine are 4x4 :wave:

[Ndru]

The cool thinkg about the XJ/Mj platform is they are very versilte. How many threads where someone has made a Rock crawler that has to be trailered does somebody ask "why'd you screw up that truck so it wont drive on the rd?" NEVER. These jeeps are getting old. We ought to be glad when someone has done somthing new whatever it is and not just working on JKs.

88jeepxj, I think 3-4 would be just right, I need to make one of those front axles .Maybe w some wj 2wd knuckles and brakes. I'm glad my Mj is already spring under,makes it alot easier for me. But if I go down 3.5 in the front it will need to go 5 in the back. What size wheel/tire are you thinking w 3.5 in of lowering? I'm still in the early stages of my street jeep, trying to determine which direction to go . http://photos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v2587/211/27/1384668550/n1384668550_30088296_4057655.jpg

[bjoehandley]

Looks good Ndru, I'm digging the Rubi rims too, always thought those would make a neat looking "street truck" rim.

[88JeepXJ]

What size wheel/tire are you thinking w 3.5 in of lowering?

The MJ looks awesome. Keep us updated. I have some Hoosier R6's that I'd like to run, they are 225/50/15. It is pretty darn small for the XJ but the price was right. We'll see.

[Ndru]

I'm going w the 17 in Moabs off a JK ( on the back) probably 235 (50 or 55) x17 with some custom jeep flares. at least thats the plan for now. Thats the easy part, I have got to gett his thing to sit right first.

[seanyb505]

...with some custom jeep flares..

I been wondering what the right pre-runner fender flares would look like on a lowered XJ. They might require some modding to get it to look right, but it would be similar to the direction of that one yellow supercharged stroker MJ Hesco did way back when.

Or, something like this, but not this because Jeeps arent Mustangs:
http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t217/seanyb505/14.jpg

Of course you would need wider tires so it doesnt look retarded. I think it would give it a racecar feel, like a modern version of the SCCA trucks.

[Ndru]

I think it would give it a racecar feel, like a modern version of the SCCA trucks.
That is exactly what I'm going for. Using alot of factory parts that I've been (and am still ) collecting
my " custom jeep flares " will come from a KK . Mounting the lip lower onthe body will give a lowered appearance . the front flare will take some work but the rear isnt as bad as you think. http://imgs.getauto.com/imgs/ag/ga/26/64/1/1J8GN28K09W522664-1.jpg

[88JeepXJ]

FYI combining two stock XJ leaf packs and going SU a Ford 8.8 gives about 3.5 inches of drop...and will likely end up with 4" once it settles.

http://i674.photobucket.com/albums/vv108/bmwme/Race%20Stuff/96405151.jpg