TNT Install ?'s

[fdsa487]

So I have the belly pan installed now. Yesterday the lower control arms were removed and the lower control arm mounts were cut/grinded off.

When I remove the upper control arms will it be easier if I jack up the alex a little bit?
When im putting the TNT arms on should the axel be jacked up a little bit also?

Do I put the arms on and measure the wheel base then if its not right take em off and adjusting them again? (Is there an easier way than this?)

If I don’t have a tool to measure the caster angle what else can I use? What is the easiest way to do this?

[99xjache]

When I installed mine it was easier to leave the tires mounted to the axle. Jack the car up and support it with jackstands just behind the old LCA mounts, ( try to get it pretty close to the new ride height.) let the axle back down till the wheels are on the ground then block the tires, front and back so the axle doest walk on you. You should be able to get pretty damn close to the correct, or at least matching the wheel base left to right.

Dont take off the uppers untill you have the TnT lowers on. then take off one at a time and install the TnT "uppers" one at a time.

Make sure you measure the uppers out to what the directions say, I think it 13.5", and make sure they are the exact same length.

Once you get it all put together, close to tight, set it on the ground and then start measuring and adjusting.

Go to a welding supply shop and buy a magnetic dial angle finder. Harbor Freight sells a cheap one that would probably work.

Aaron

[fdsa487]

Good Info. I have the tires off so my friend and I coule grind and cut the lower control arm mounts off. I'll put em back on. Thanks again!

[jwtrapper]

I did mine a little different.
I pulled my axle during my install so that gears and a locker could be put in.
My jeep was on jack stands and so was the axle. I measured out the lower arms to the same length and put them in. I had some trouble with the lower arm on the drivers side. I had to lower the belly pan to be able to tighten it up.
I then placed a jack under the pinion and measured out the upper arms to the 13.5" like the distructions told me. I used the jack to set the pinion and move the axle around to be able to put in the frist upper arm. The other arm was a little harder to get in but with the use of the jack and a large pipewrench I got it to go. If you get the arm close enough you can use a screwdriver placed inside the hole to help line things up to get the bolt in.
I took mine off and on a few time untill I had it where I wanted it. It was realy a lot more easy than I though it would be.

[fdsa487]

Well im pretty much pissed off now. I have both lower control arms installed, BUT they are both completely threaded in to be able to fit. The axel was TOTALLY tweaked out when I took the lower control arms out that I had in there (the ones that come with the RE 4.5" lift kit) Will this be easier if I take the springs out? Im thinking it might. Im about to have this thing towed to a shop and have it done but I KNOW that will cots a PRETTY penny and I have like noooo money right now. I was supposed to go to the desert this weekend but it looks like im screwed. Im really pissed and im about to break this frekin Jeep.

[mark91xjbeef]

the axle tends to rotate if you take both lowers off at the same time. put a jack under your steering or trackbar bracket to rotate it back.
or you can put a ratchet strap to you front bumper.

[Justpunchit]

The way i did mine and i really didnt have to much trouble is i took the whole axle off the truck then installed the uppers and lowers on the pushed all of in coils and all into place and just bolted the radius arms into the belly pan.

[nhrocker]

To get all my arms in place with the springs installed, steering attached and brake lines still connected, I had to do a combination of all the methods I've heard used before. I had the XJ on jackstands, the axle sitting on a floor jack, a power puller (used like a large ratchet strap) from the axle to the bumper, my stock bottle jack used a couple different ways, and me sitting/pushing/pulling/stepping as needed to persuade it to position. It took me a lot longer than it should have, but once I got the angles right and the axle centered they went in easy.

I can't tell you enough, make sure your axle is centered. I found this out from experience. I thought it was impossible to get the uppers in, then I got the axle centered and rotated better and the last upper almost dropped in place on it's own...

[Kittrell]

Well im pretty much pissed off now. I have both lower control arms installed, BUT they are both completely threaded in to be able to fit. The axel was TOTALLY tweaked out when I took the lower control arms out that I had in there (the ones that come with the RE 4.5" lift kit) Will this be easier if I take the springs out? Im thinking it might. Im about to have this thing towed to a shop and have it done but I KNOW that will cots a PRETTY penny and I have like noooo money right now. I was supposed to go to the desert this weekend but it looks like im screwed. Im really pissed and im about to break this frekin Jeep.

Wow, calm down, its not like anything is broken. Like the others said, when you take all of the arms off, the axle isn't gonna sit where it used to. You just need to play with the jack to get it where it needs to be. Find someone local to help you, before you waste a bunch of money at a shop.

[Bender]

Also, more than likely your axle was sitting too far back at ride height with your RE lift because of the short arms so you'll want to push it forward a little by threading out the new arms.

[fdsa487]

Alright well today is a new day. After work I will be working on the Jeep again. Im going to take the advice from a local NAXJA member and remove the springs and shocks and track bar so that the axel is free. Everything should bolt right up after that. Its just fignting the springs is a PITA. Hmmm I just though right now that maybe I dont even need to take out the track bar, if I just get the springs out at least I can move the axel forward and backwards. That might work.

The axel is centered right now so if I don't adjust it in or out then I should be okay when I put it back on.

[fdsa487]

angle finder

[fdsa487]

Ok.. I have all of it installed. I have lower arms adjusted 32" from bolt hole to bolt hole. I have the upper arms adjusted 13.5" from bolt hold to bold hole. That is what I have learned from reading on here if you are between 5.5 and 6" of lift. So... everything looks okay where it sits but I have some questions.

The axel looks like its in a much better spot now that the coil springs are not coiled backwards anymore they are pretty much straight.

Why does the yolk on the front drive shaft look like it might be at maximum output length? could I possibly need a longer drive shaft???

Also... I don't know if i need to adjust the lower control arms out now but how it sits from center of axel to center of axel is 101"'s of wheel base. Do I need to have it between 105" and 107"?

Here are some pictures as reference for you.

I do not have any before pictures but the springs are more straight up and down then they were before.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y153/fdsa487/aaaa.jpg

Is the front drive shaft to extended to wheel and flex it as it sits? Do I need a longer one?


http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y153/fdsa487/aaaaa.jpg

Is the front drive shaft to extended as it sits to flex?


http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y153/fdsa487/aaaaaa.jpg




the wheel base is at 101" center of axel to center of axel.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y153/fdsa487/aaa.jpg

[99xjache]

Ok.. I have all of it installed. I have lower arms adjusted 32" from bolt hole to bolt hole. I have the upper arms adjusted 13.5" from bolt hold to bold hole. That is what I have learned from reading on here if you are between 5.5 and 6" of lift. So... everything looks okay where it sits but I have some questions.

The axel looks like its in a much better spot now that the coil springs are not coiled backwards anymore they are pretty much straight.

Why does the yolk on the front drive shaft look like it might be at maximum output length? could I possibly need a longer drive shaft???

Also... I don't know if i need to adjust the lower control arms out now but how it sits from center of axel to center of axel is 101"'s of wheel base. Do I need to have it between 105" and 107"?

Here are some pictures as reference for you.

I do not have any before pictures but the springs are more straight up and down then they were before.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y153/fdsa487/aaaa.jpg

Is the front drive shaft to extended to wheel and flex it as it sits? Do I need a longer one?


http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y153/fdsa487/aaaaa.jpg

Is the front drive shaft to extended as it sits to flex?


http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y153/fdsa487/aaaaaa.jpg




the wheel base is at 101" center of axel to center of axel.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y153/fdsa487/aaa.jpg

IIRC the wheel base should 101.5" so your in the ball park,

Yes, you may need a longer shaft. flex it out and see what happens.

Make sure your caster is set at -5.5 to -6.5*. If you dont follow this direction, you will be buying another new driveshaft, u-joint, and pinion yoke. Dont ask me how I know.

[nhrocker]

The stock wheelbase is 101.4", so you're pretty close. Where you go from there is up to you. You have the possibility of extending your wheelbase forward if you want. I personally went for centered and ended up with about 101.75" for my wheelbase (that isn't an exact measurement).

[scorpion]

I believe we talked on the phone early this evening. Glad to see you got it together!

The driveshaft does look short (it will look worse once the diff drops out) but when I did mine (6.5" of lift for your reference), it was good enough to drive on the street but not enough for wheelin' (aka flexin' it out). You may want to pull a tape between the yolks and see how long of a shaft you need and then compare it to the shaft you have.

here's how:
Measure from center of u-joint cap (the joint that attaches to the case itself on the tcase side) to center of u-joint cap (on the yolk of the differential). For reference, mine needs a 33" shaft (again I'm at 6.5"). Yours will likely need to be a tad shorter. Than you can remove your shaft from the yolk on the differential and extend the shaft as far as it will go. Re-measure the shaft and that's the longest it can get.

FYI: The smaller driveshaft has about 2" of usable slip (if you need a more accurate measurement I can pull a tape on one I have on the shelf). When building a shaft they typically put most of it collapsed as it won't shorten much even on full stuff. Maybe a half of an inch exposed.

You may not need an entirely new driveshaft if yours is too short. You may be able to use the one you have as a DD until you can get around to having it rebuilt. Just about every shop will lengthen it and rebalance it for you and charge you accordingly if all you need is a lengthen. For example: My front shaft needed to be lengthened. They changed the tube out, balanced it, and found only one of the joints in my CV was bad. Total fix was $125 - far less than a new shaft.

Matt

[fdsa487]

I believe we talked on the phone early this evening. Glad to see you got it together!

The driveshaft does look short (it will look worse once the diff drops out) but when I did mine (6.5" of lift for your reference), it was good enough to drive on the street but not enough for wheelin' (aka flexin' it out). You may want to pull a tape between the yolks and see how long of a shaft you need and then compare it to the shaft you have.

here's how:
Measure from center of u-joint cap (the joint that attaches to the case itself on the tcase side) to center of u-joint cap (on the yolk of the differential). For reference, mine needs a 33" shaft (again I'm at 6.5"). Yours will likely need to be a tad shorter. Than you can remove your shaft from the yolk on the differential and extend the shaft as far as it will go. Re-measure the shaft and that's the longest it can get.

FYI: The smaller driveshaft has about 2" of usable slip (if you need a more accurate measurement I can pull a tape on one I have on the shelf). When building a shaft they typically put most of it collapsed as it won't shorten much even on full stuff. Maybe a half of an inch exposed.

You may not need an entirely new driveshaft if yours is too short. You may be able to use the one you have as a DD until you can get around to having it rebuilt. Just about every shop will lengthen it and rebalance it for you and charge you accordingly if all you need is a lengthen. For example: My front shaft needed to be lengthened. They changed the tube out, balanced it, and found only one of the joints in my CV was bad. Total fix was $125 - far less than a new shaft.

Matt

Thanks for the advice. No one ever said anything about possibly needing a longer front drive shaft but I guess it makes sense if im moving the wheel base forward. I just wish that I knew what it was before the TNT install. Maybe when I get around to adjusting the Caster angle it will suck back up a little into the yolk of course I will not be driving it until I get the caster set. However, I did adjust the upper arms to 13.5" from bolt hole to bolt hole so I should be pretty set with the caster angle I just need to get an angle finder.

.:read:

[Kittrell]

No one ever said anything about possibly needing a longer front drive shaft but I guess it makes sense if im moving the wheel base forward.

Actually you didn't extend your wheelbase, it should be stock. You would need a longer shaft cause your Jeep is lifted farther from the axles. You just dove into this head first didn't you...........:twak:

[fdsa487]

Yeah, pretty much. I never had any drive shaft length problems before the tnt install with the same lift.

[Dirt]

You don't have any driveshaft problems now that you didn't already have. I'll guarantee your shaft was stretched before. And how about when you got the jeep and it had 8-9'' coils?


If you would research a damn thing, before you did it, your post count would be at about 9.


I'm watching you sucka. :cool:

[fdsa487]

You don't have any driveshaft problems now that you didn't already have. I'll guarantee your shaft was stretched before. And how about when you got the jeep and it had 8-9'' coils?


If you would research a damn thing, before you did it, your post count would be at about 9.


I'm watching you sucka. :cool:

Don't be hatin'!:)

Yeah when I did have those 9" springs in there I had a horrible sound in the front end in 4X. I went to have it checked out and they rebuilt the drive shaft then I ordered the smaller springs and all has been well sinse.

FYI I read almost every thread I searched for on TNT installs. :read: <--- See.

[Dirt]

Well glad you got them done. You will love them. :thumbup:

[fdsa487]

Well glad you got them done. You will love them. :thumbup:

Thanks man.
But what I have to ask is you said that I do not have any new drive shaft problems that I didn't have before, correct?

But, I have allot more suspension articulation and more of the front drive shaft is exposed from they yolk so I don't understand. Can you explain?

[Kittrell]

Thanks man.
But what I have to ask is you said that I do not have any new drive shaft problems that I didn't have before, correct?

But, I have allot more suspension articulation and more of the front drive shaft is exposed from they yolk so I don't understand. Can you explain?

You might have more droop now, but its not lifted any higher. The static ride height is the same as it was before the TnT install. So if your driveshaft is to short, it was already too short. The TnT kit had no effect on it either way.

[fdsa487]

You might have more droop now, but its not lifted any higher. The static ride height is the same as it was before the TnT install. So if your driveshaft is to short, it was already too short. The TnT kit had no effect on it either way.

Even if the wheel base is extended forward?

[Kittrell]

Even if the wheel base is extended forward?

But its not, your wheel base should be stock.

[LS1Jeeper]

Is this what your tryin to say ?

Your shaft might have been very close to being to short pre-TnT.. and now with the extra droop it is to short ?
or it was just to short in both cases and you didn't know until now

[fdsa487]

Is this what your tryin to say ?

Your shaft might have been very close to being to short pre-TnT.. and now with the extra droop it is to short ?


I have not even flexed it out yet. Im waiting to get an angle finder and get it to 6* but now Im saying that pre-TnT the front drive shaft had almost no visable shaft where it goes into the yolk on the axel end. Now, post-TnT There is allot of visable shaft like it might be to short. Evidenced in this picture.

It is sitting level on the ground in this picture.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y153/fdsa487/aaaaa.jpg

[RCP Phx]

With your old lift you lost wheelbase(because of the short arms),now your lifted with factory wheelbase.

[fdsa487]

With your old lift you lost wheelbase(because of the short arms),now your lifted with factory wheelbase.

Well I know that. Im just saying now that it IS back to factory wheel base I may need a longer drive shaft.

[xj-grin]

keep in mind, too, that now that you are running a radius arm setup with the arms essentially in the same plane as your driveshaft, there will be very little movement in the slip portion of the shaft anways, since the distance between the axle and the tcase will remain static (arc movement)...

[fdsa487]

keep in mind, too, that now that you are running a radius arm setup with the arms essentially in the same plane as your driveshaft, there will be very little movement in the slip portion of the shaft anways, since the distance between the axle and the tcase will remain static (arc movement)...

I did not know that. Thank you.

[fdsa487]

OK... just one more question for you guys that have installed the TNT Kit. I have everything in except for ONE bolt. Its the bolt that holds in the drivers side control arm into the belly pan. The drive shaft is in the way. Without having to drop the belly pan and with out having to remove the drive shaft what do you recommend to get that bolt in. If I flex it on that side do you think that the drive shaft would raise up enough to get the bolt in??????????????????????

[jwtrapper]

Just take loose the driveshaft from the axle tie it up out of the way. You should be able toget to it easily that way. 4 easy bolts 5/16" I know I have dropped my driveshaft several times over the last few days. And with the new belly pan its a pain in the butt.

[fdsa487]

I know... that is why I didn't want to have to disconnect the drive shaft. That skid blocks a big part of it. What a PITA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[99xjache]

just take it loose from the axle end and lift the shaft out of the way. Dont forget..... 150 foot pounds of torque!