35s, d30, alloy shafts?

[HeavyMetal]

I dont really like to blast up obstacles or bounce the jeep ever, i really like to crawl and be a bit more reserved in my approach, so what do you guys think, when i go 35s, should i bother getting alloy shafts for my d30? ive already got a 30 spline d44 in the rear. i know itd be the best option to really play it safe, but would it really be necessary in the scheme of things, money considered?

thanks all

[wvredxj]

i have them..........and it made my ring gear the fuseable link.........its up to you, what would you rather break?

[BRIANHO13]

I ran 35's with alloy inners for 2 years never broke anything. Keep in mind it is midwest wheeling.

[OT]

For what it's worth, I probably wheel a little more difficult trails than most and have yet to break any CroMo shafts or joints.
I've only had them for about six moths, but still.....
Before, I broke at least two stock shafts per weekend......

[IntrepidXJ]

i have wheeled with quite a few people on 35's with stock shafts and no problems. on the other hand, i have broken my fair share of stock shafts on 33's and went to alloys (i try not to use the go pedal unless i absolutely need to).

stay stock for now and carry spare shafts. if you start breaking them, then upgrade. that's my 2 cents :)

[Bender]

I agree with Intrepid...stay stock for now and carry spares. Stock shafts with 297/760 u-joints will handle quite a bit of abuse.

[OT]

I agree with Intrepid...stay stock for now and carry spares. Stock shafts with 297/760 u-joints will handle quite a bit of abuse.
Ahahahahahahaha!!!
That's a laugh!
297 Shafts will NOT handle real abuse.
Not crawling with any kind of full lock under power.
Like I said, at least 2 per weekend.....

[LilRedRover]

Ahahahahahahaha!!!
That's a laugh!
297 Shafts will NOT handle real abuse.
Not crawling with any kind of full lock under power.
Like I said, at least 2 per weekend.....

I agree... have seen shafts shatter with 31s

[goodburbon]

Stock shafts aren't enough for me, and my ring gear has become the weakest link since I upgraded to alloy shafts. I'm on 33's.

[Gunner]

I have 4340 shafts inner and outer with 760x joints ... wait for it ... wait for it...


with 38's and a 4:1 Klune-V

Done the hardest trails in Colorado.. That I know of. Die Trying, Catus 2, Calamity Canyon, and 21 road and Billings canyon etc. etc. . Used the spicer joints as a "fuse". Haven't had a problem since I had them.. 2 years. Why 38's on a D30 do you ask.... Because I am stubborn and have a thing for people telling me I can't... It's pretty clear that this shouldn't be done. But then again why not.... Until I blow that poor poor over taxed D30. It stays........ I know it's not the best idea. But like I said. Stubborn....... Besides a D44 only gets you 3 more splines give or take and a bigger r&P... not wise for people that like that happy pedal, but for those of us that take good lines and a little time... Well I have plenty of people that watch just to see how much the poor d30 will take. If your runnin 35's .... no problem.. But you can't hammer down......

[LilRedRover]

38s, 4 to 1, chromoly shafts... little money in that thing huh.... Let's see some pics in the pictures forum

[Gunner]

trust me it isn't anything to look at. I have pics on Rockcrawler.com in Readers Rides - Colorado - Titmus--- I am the only Titmus out there (go figure) . It only had 37" SSR's at the time.. But I don't want to hi jack the thread. I just want to let you guys know that D30's can take a lot of abuse properly outfitted and w/o standing on the happy pedal.

Gunner

P.S.

My computer sucks otherwise I have a pic here...

[RyanM]

here it is
http://rockcrawler.com/readersrides/photos/5085b.jpg
hit quote and figure out how to post pics. just copy imagle location
btw i run 36's on my dana 30. i took the detroit out after twisting some stock shafts. chromo or 44 uprade? i like option2

[Gunner]

4340 shafts are tha cats ass..... A D44 while stronger in the R&P and 30 splines vs. 27 The weak point always seems to be the 297X - upgraded to the 760X u-joint. I my experience the u-joint is always first. D30 or D44 so pick your poison... I like my D30. So Far.

[goodburbon]

I haven't used the winch for my own extraction while rockcrawling until I had to make it out in 2wd once.

Sure, it is possible to run 44" tires on a 30 and just "see if it breaks". I was a dumbass once and thought I would be the exception to the rule and that my magical 30 would get me to the top, then again with my awesome 4340 shafts, time and time again it has let me down. I don't want to play "find the most precarious place to work on your junk" and hold up people on the trail all day changing shafts, anymore.

How does one drive without using the accelerator? Winch winch winch and winch. whats the point of having the 4.0 if you can't use that torque? Whats the point of having bigger tires if you can't use them?

Personally if I see you running 38's on a d-30, I'm not wheelin with you, because I don't want to spend all day.....

(a) changing shafts for some jackhole that doesn't know their crap.
(b) waiting for some jackhole to change his shafts/joints
(c) taking the easy lines so I can winch out said jackhole.
(d) loaning out extra shafts that I carry because I KNOW d-30's are weak.

What is the point of wheeling the hardest trails in the world if you take the easiest lines? Just doing something to say you did something really hard, but doing it the easy way is similar to lying just to make yourself look cool.

[Gunner]

There are no easy lines on Die Trying, but I wouldn't expect you to know that. and I have spent more time waiting for some "jackhole" with a magical D44 or even D60 that stood on the throttle like a moron just because he didn't think it would break. Driving means more than hitting the gas until you make it. If you like to drive like that you won't have to worry about my 38's because your not invited.

[goodburbon]

Ok, I don't really want to get into a pissing contest, I just want to let the poor guy know that its not worth it to beef up the d-30, I wish I hadn't wasted the money.

$150 for 760x's (caps lost, caps spit out, full circle clips)
$350 Warn inner shafts
$350 Truetrac
$70 Yukon outers
$120 Yukon inner (spit a cap and destroyed Warn inner)
$120 Gears
$150 Setup
$30 36 mm socket necessary for unit bearing d-30
_________
$1340 on a worthless gutless piece of metal that is now hollow because I can't afford to re-do it any more!

Spend a little money now and save yourself from having to do it twice! Listen to the rule rather than someone proclaiming to be the exception to that rule.

[Gunner]

Don't get me wrong I agree with the upgrade to a D44 and yes you can dump a ton of cash into a D30 and still break it. My time is coming and I know it. But last I checked a bolt in D44 was running about $2600 or so. And for those who don't have access to serious fab equipment a junk yard upgrade out of an old FSJ isn't really an option, neither is paying a shop to do it. 35's with 4340 shafts and the knowledge that it is infact destructable will get you a long way.

[zjmikey]

Ok, I don't really want to get into a pissing contest, I just want to let the poor guy know that its not worth it to beef up the d-30, I wish I hadn't wasted the money.

$150 for 760x's (caps lost, caps spit out, full circle clips)
$350 Warn inner shafts
$350 Truetrac
$70 Yukon outers
$120 Yukon inner (spit a cap and destroyed Warn inner)
$120 Gears
$150 Setup
$30 36 mm socket necessary for unit bearing d-30
_________
$1340 on a worthless gutless piece of metal that is now hollow because I can't afford to re-do it any more!

Spend a little money now and save yourself from having to do it twice! Listen to the rule rather than someone proclaiming to be the exception to that rule.


Maybe the next $$ you spend should be on some driving lessons..


I (and a bunch of others) have been running Dana 30's with 35's and not many problems at all..

Of course if you had a real locker in the front, you might not have issues with needing wheel spin to get the front end to grab

I run 35" creepy crawlers on a Dana 30 with a v8 grand cherokee and have only ever lost 1 cap...

I know a ton of guys that are running DAna 30s out at Johnson Valley and they hold up surprising well.

If you are light on the throttle, I think the major deal is where just what part of the country you are in...

[goodburbon]

I don't or rather didn't need or use wheelspin to lock the front end, nor to get traction in anything but loose dirt and mud spinning was an indication that I needed to apply the brakes and force a lock. The first shaft that let go there was no wheelspin, my last shaft I splintered at a standstill with no spinning whatsoever until it let go and my rear started spinning, and my front ring gear was stripped of its teeth with no wheelspin/shockload, just steady gradual application of throttle.

Maybe you should learn what to reccomend before you suggest that people throw their money away. :moon:

running 35s on a d-30 is like doing 90 on the interstate, when you get caught everyone else laughs.

[zjmikey]

Dude, as I said again, the group of people I wheel with wheel alot in JV, considered by many to be some of the toughest rockcrawling trails in the country.

95% of the guys run HP Dana 30s and have NO problems with them.
(all of them are running ARB's up front, as Am I)

I think alot of it has to do with the terrain and driving style.

IMHO Detroit True Track limited slips are JUNK..... you have to get the wheels spinning, then one catches and BOOM... gone shaft..


ARB;s you dont have that problem.

[goodburbon]

well IMHO ARB's are junk always breaking airlines, solenoids, leaking seals, coming apart, compressors blowing up...

you know what that proves? NOTHING! opinions prove nothing, therefore when deciding what to do I am not going to suddenly say "my experience must be wrong, because SOME guys can use a d-30 with no problems for years." I don't expect you to change your opinions based on my experiences, I expect you to give sound advice to someone who asked a valid question. the bottom line is that even people who run d-30's cause they're so great, treat them gingerly and worry about them the whole time they're wheelin. Wheel for fun not for worrying


Alloy manufactureres reccomend using 31" or smaller tires with their shafts as do locker manufacturers for the d-30. I wonder why? Maybe they just pulled that number out of their asses. Or do you think that they might possibly know what to expect from their products?

[zjmikey]

Well, I have seen about 3-4 or so truetracs strip out the helical gears in them... so lets just agree to disagree.


I have been running ARB lockers for 15 years, I have NEVER had one break, have NEVER had an airline get pinched or broken and have NEVER had an issue..


I think it depends alot on Installation... if it is done halfassed.. then you are going to have problems...

again, I think it depends on the part of the country you are in.

Bring your junk out here and try to attack a hill with a bunch ofwheelspin.. It will not be pretty..

It is much more technical wheelin and finesse style out here, so that could have alot to do with it.

Over my (20+) years of experience wheelin, my opinion is that limited slips are o.k for mild stuff but if you are asking them do the extreme obstacles (which from your statements it sounds like you do) they just simply do not work.......

[RyanM]

http://espn-att.starwave.com/media/horse/BobAndJohn2_412_060408.jpg
and they're off

ive seen numerous yukon r&p's crumble, here and out in the woods...also, no real exp with ARBs so no comment. if your gonna use the HP30 IMO, go superior. mine has help up fine, and i don't pounce on it or get my tires spinning at high speeds if i cant make it, i just say i can't make it. i know it can break if i do somehing real stupid. thats why i wheel with 1ton yj's with 12,000 lb winches. if you don't want to build up a 44, try it with the 30, run it and report back how it goes. imo it doesnt matter what people have run or broke on them.http://www.naxja.org/forum/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Gunner]

The point is everything can break when abused. Key word "abused" Out here if your at WOT all the time you'll see a lot of poeple laughing. At you, not with you. What is a waste of money is an opionion. The fact still remains that a D30 can survive when it's outfitted correctly. Will it break ?? Yes.. But so will a 44,60 and everything else. How long it survives depends soley on the driver.

[goodburbon]

Just because you are willing to live with a time bomb doesn't mean you should reccommend the same for everyone.

I'm done.

[DaffyXJ]

When it's time to break well..., let's just say it worked just before it broke...

two weekends ago, crawling a 3 foot ledge, rear rubber lost grip, rear pinion slammed the rocks and sheared 1 inch behind the yoke. ARB was locked in and the front kept going, well the left front warn hub shattered and the front output on the teralow took a side trip to the bahamas. All in all a good day. Backed the XJ off the obsticle and let the rest keep going, dumped the rear oil in a bag, pulled the carrier, took out the pieces of the rear pinion, reinstalled carrier and axles, changed the front hub and drove out (With a little winching at times).
This on an 01 XJ with 44's front and rear, 4.88's, aforementioned teralow, and 38's (W/Beadlocks). 4340 shafts front and rear W/CTM's. Total RPM's at the time of failure was less than 1500.
When it's time to go, it will go.
Just the excuse I needed to go to 5.38's and order a 4 speed atlas. Be watch'n for the DaffyXJ at the PAJeeps Show in July.

:loveu:

[muddshutter]

Goodburbon,

I have read the heated posts and have a true question for you. I hope you take a minute to answer.


I know that you are a big supporter of a D44. I am at the crossroads of building a d30 or going to a 44. What do you have for a 44 and what's in it? I'd love to get a 44, and i have the cash to do it. Any suggestions would be great?

[Gunner]

Where did you get your front 44?

Sounded like an expensive trip

[DaffyXJ]

Yeah it was an expensive trip. Some times your the windshield, Sometimes your the bug...:shocked:
And that should be the moral of the thread. Build it for what you plan to wheel, but don't be surprised when it breaks..

Its a Sams offroad custom width (62WMS) LP-44. Put it in 2 years ago, about 2600 out the door. That was with a detroit, which I subsequently blew up. (Last Dec).
Currently, 5.38's (after I put them in, next weekend?), ARB, Moser inners (Custom length), Yukon Outters, CTM's, PSI Ram Assist, (The Cats Meow), GM knuckles, Ford hub/rotors, 5.5X5 Bolt Circle, Parts Mike's High Steer arms, 1 ton TRE's, Inverted 'T' Steering, custom track bar.
Note: pic shows spicer ujoints on stock outters. and the ARB isn't in there yet.

http://www.tqci.net/~scot/steeringa.jpg

[JonnyK]

Why waste money on a 44 with the same size joints as the 30? Why not just go to a 60 if you're going to upgrade?

[DaffyXJ]

I may. As I said, build it to what you wheel. So I did. Problem is you see this nice house sized rock and say, yeah, I bet I can.... Next thing you know your rippin' the 44 out and stuffing a 60 up front so the next time you cross the house rock, you can go over it. :kissyou:

[goodburbon]

Originally posted by muddhshutter
Goodburbon,

I have read the heated posts and have a true question for you. I hope you take a minute to answer.


I know that you are a big supporter of a D44. I am at the crossroads of building a d30 or going to a 44. What do you have for a 44 and what's in it? I'd love to get a 44, and i have the cash to do it. Any suggestions would be great?

I don't have one yet, but the local shop has a few extra Early bronco housings for 100$, I will be keeping the Radius arm setup because it's cheaper and I have the ability to fabricate. I plan on running a spool if I get a bare housing, and putting alloys with super joints in it in it. thus making the easily swappable hubs the weakest link, I may even run hub fuses.

I have not yet fully researched which knuckles to use but I know several threads on it are out there.

I'm not pro 44 if you're going over 36" tires since the u-joints are a weak link. The 44 just fits the niche between d-30 and d-60 for 33-36"tires without sacrificing the ground clearance you just gained by going to a larger tire.

If I were planning on keeping a 5x 4.5 bolt pattern I would make a hybrid axle like the rubicon and have 30 knuckles welded to the 44 housing and use 760x's and 4340 alloy outers, with an e-locker. Not the strongest option, but safe for 33" tires.

[ZachMan]

may want to upgrade your steering with turdy fives too.

[jeep_87_cherokee]

running 35s on a d-30 is like doing 90 on the interstate, when you get caught everyone else laughs.

lol thats why u get in your moms 2wd WJ and hall ass at 100 down the frontage road and blow past all the jerk-offs in their sport cars !!!

[jeep_87_cherokee]

oh yea...... were can u get alloy shafts for a dana 30 ???? with the stock number of splines ...what kind of $$$ are we talking about with alloys ????

if i went to alloy axles, would i need alloy stub shafts or are they sold together ? thanks, just wondering were i could gap a few of these...

[zjmikey]

.

What is the point of wheeling the hardest trails in the world if you take the easiest lines? Just doing something to say you did something really hard, but doing it the easy way is similar to lying just to make yourself look cool.

Uh, there arent any easy lines on the trails out at JV.....

And besides, we "most of us" use the Dana 30 because it has GREAT ground clearance. They seldomly break and YOu CANNOT attack the hills, they are just too technical..

As I said before it depends on the type of terrain you run.

2 weeks ago at the tin benders jamboreee we had 28 rigs on Aftershock.. All but the toyotas and 1 TJ were running Dana 30 frontends.

NOT ONE BROKE!!!...

And besides wTF is the difference between running a LP front Dana 44 and a HP Dana 30.. basically nothing..

the Strength you gain in the ring gear, is almost negated by running the LP in the front opposed to the HP in the front, and you basically the same shafts (well at least outers)

I am not saying that the Dana 30 is the BEST all end all axle, but Dont go telling a guy that his axle wont work unless you have some knowledge to his driving stiles.

I know guys (me included) that have wheeled on Dana 30s for 15+ years and have had very minimal problems, On the other hands, I have seen guys that EAT 1480 ujoints on Dana 60's on a weekly basis... just depends on the driver and driving style

[OT]

Yeah it was an expensive trip. Some times your the windshield, Sometimes your the bug...:shocked:
And that should be the moral of the thread. Build it for what you plan to wheel, but don't be surprised when it breaks..

Its a Sams offroad custom width (62WMS) LP-44. Put it in 2 years ago, about 2600 out the door. That was with a detroit, which I subsequently blew up. (Last Dec).
Currently, 5.38's (after I put them in, next weekend?), ARB, Moser inners (Custom length), Yukon Outters, CTM's, PSI Ram Assist, (The Cats Meow), GM knuckles, Ford hub/rotors, 5.5X5 Bolt Circle, Parts Mike's High Steer arms, 1 ton TRE's, Inverted 'T' Steering, custom track bar.
Note: pic shows spicer ujoints on stock outters. and the ARB isn't in there yet.

http://www.tqci.net/~scot/steeringa.jpg
Well, at least the ram is out of the way.....:rolleyes:

[Gunner]

To 87 Cherokee.

I got my Alloys from Randy's some people may not like them but they have been nothing but good to me. Its been 2 years since I got them so I am sure the prices went up. The inner short side was like $100, the inner long side was around $150, I had to wait to get the stubs because they were out and they went for $160 a pop a few months later. So figure arond $600 if you go to Randy's They are a little spendy but you get a 5 year warrenty with them, but damage from a failed U-joint is not covered. I use spicer 760x with full circle clips. You may as well go all alloy while your in there money permitting.


to zjmikey:

Amen brother AAAAmen

[HeavyMetal]

hey thanks all for the wide range of good info :D

[woody]

oh yea...... were can u get alloy shafts for a dana 30 ???? with the stock number of splines ...what kind of $$$ are we talking about with alloys ????

if i went to alloy axles, would i need alloy stub shafts or are they sold together ? thanks, just wondering were i could gap a few of these...

Stock D30 is 27 spline inner & outer, Upgrade (ARB & Ox diffs) is 30 spline inner. Someone else (forget who) is making 30 spline unit-bearing hubs & alloy stubs

Alloy USA makes axle/UJ kits...
30spl inner/27 spl outer: http://www.tellico4x4.com/product_info.php/cPath/2880_76_3320/products_id/26014

27spl/inner/27 spl outer (non-disco) :
http://www.tellico4x4.com/product_info.php/cPath/2880_76_3320/products_id/26037

27spl/inner/27 spl outer (disco conversion) :
http://www.tellico4x4.com/product_info.php/cPath/2880_76_3320/products_id/26036

[goodburbon]

quadratec carries warn
http://www.quadratec.com/products/product_search.php?cn=Warn+High+Strength+Front+Axl es&c=51&pn=16131+xx%2C26131+xx%2C23135+50%2C60006&h=&spg=t

and Alloy USA
http://www.quadratec.com/products/52400_503.htm

and Superior
http://www.quadratec.com/products/product_search.php?cn=Superior+Axles+for+Jeep+Vehi cles&c=51&mn=superior

4wheelparts carries Alloy USA
http://www.4wheelparts.com/4wp/products/productLine.asp?cat=JEE&prodline=4539&catName=Jeep+Accessories&man=ALY

for starters.

[holeshot]

just currious, what is the durability of the stock D30 shafts with no locker and 35's?

[goodburbon]

Depends on the joints and the type of wheeling you do.

[woody]

just currious, what is the durability of the stock D30 shafts with no locker and 35's?

With a name like holeshot, and 35" tires?

I'd say not too good...

In detail... if one started with 'new' spicer shafts with the larger UJ size, and 'new' spicer 5-760x UJs (and took the time to prep the joints with good grease, clearanced the shafts to accept the full-circle clips & set up the stops to not bind the yokes into themselves too hard on full-steering input) I'd say they are pretty durable. OTOH price 'new' Spicer vs new aftermarket alloy & decide for yourself what sort of insurance policy you need.

I'll stop short here... too much 'never broke an axle or UJ on the trail' karma at stake, and I know you vultures are waiting.

[LilRedRover]

I personally run 52 inch michelins on my d30 locked with a 454 big block and a heavy foot... never broke any part of my d30 yet and I wheel some really tough malls... disregard the signature.... it's WAY outdated

[RyanM]

we can tell by your avatarhttp://www.naxja.org/forum/images/icons/icon13.gif