damn starters...

alright my starter went out again

i just replaced this one less than 7 months ago

i had a small oil leak so the starter was covered in oil

so im going to go buy a new starter tomorow

but is there something i need to check so my starters will stop going out

is it just the oil on it

or could it be something else??

cas

Depends on who remanned it. Strauss / Pepboys / Autozone remanned parts are generally sort lived.

If you do find out that your starter is going out because of oil, then get them from a store mentioned above. Free replacements for life. You'll change them more often due to oil or part's short life span, but you will not pay for them again.

Another option is to get one from a low milage junkyard engine.

It would take a bunch of oil to kill a starter. As mentioned above try a quality re-build. I went with a Mean Green and it has served me well for over 100Kmiles, but you do not NEED one.

Rev

Buying "chain store" reman electrics is a crapshoot - they offer a lifetime warranty, but you'll NEED it.

It's possible for oil to get into a starter motor and cause trouble - I'd fix the oil leak first. Use a gasket, and use LocTite 518 "Gasket Eliminator" to seal it.

Here's the catch...

1) Install about four studs meant for SBChevvy "Cast" valve covers into holes in the head for the valve cover bolts. Make them more or less even - this will help you later...

2) Coat both sides of the gasket with #518 and set it in place on the cover. Go work on your beer (or beverage of choice) for about 10 minutes to let it tack up.

3) Pick up the valve cover, and set it on the studs. The studs will help locate the thing, so you don't have to wrestle with it - and keep the gasket from shifting.

4) Install all the bolts FINGER TIGHT ONLY, and put studs on the nuts FINGER TIGHT ONLY. The underside of the bolt head/nut should be making contact with the metal valve cover - that's about IT.

5) Go have lunch. Take at least an hour. #518 is anaerobic and has a LONG work time when exposed, but this is shortened once it's exposed to air and cut off again. This will allow it to start really setting up.

6) Come back. Grab your "little" torque wrench, and tighten the bolts to NOT MORE THAN 84 pound-inches/7 pound-feet. I did say "little" wrench - that's what you want. If you don't have one, go get one - you'll also need it if you ever do the oil sump gasket (which torques to either 84 pound-inches or 132 pound-inches.)

7) Allow to sit for at least four hours - prefereably overnight. Start it in the morning.

I've done this three times so far (three different XJ's out of four) and haven't had a bit of trouble afterwards. This WORKS.

5-90

5-90 said:

Buying "chain store" reman electrics is a crapshoot - they offer a lifetime warranty, but you'll NEED it.

It's possible for oil to get into a starter motor and cause trouble - I'd fix the oil leak first. Use a gasket, and use LocTite 518 "Gasket Eliminator" to seal it.

Here's the catch...

1) Install about four studs meant for SBChevvy "Cast" valve covers into holes in the head for the valve cover bolts. Make them more or less even - this will help you later...

2) Coat both sides of the gasket with #518 and set it in place on the cover. Go work on your beer (or beverage of choice) for about 10 minutes to let it tack up.

3) Pick up the valve cover, and set it on the studs. The studs will help locate the thing, so you don't have to wrestle with it - and keep the gasket from shifting.

4) Install all the bolts FINGER TIGHT ONLY, and put studs on the nuts FINGER TIGHT ONLY. The underside of the bolt head/nut should be making contact with the metal valve cover - that's about IT.

5) Go have lunch. Take at least an hour. #518 is anaerobic and has a LONG work time when exposed, but this is shortened once it's exposed to air and cut off again. This will allow it to start really setting up.

6) Come back. Grab your "little" torque wrench, and tighten the bolts to NOT MORE THAN 84 pound-inches/7 pound-feet. I did say "little" wrench - that's what you want. If you don't have one, go get one - you'll also need it if you ever do the oil sump gasket (which torques to either 84 pound-inches or 132 pound-inches.)

7) Allow to sit for at least four hours - prefereably overnight. Start it in the morning.

I've done this three times so far (three different XJ's out of four) and haven't had a bit of trouble afterwards. This WORKS.

5-90

Click to expand...

thanks for the tips what seal are we talking about here tough
sense i never told u where its leaking from....

cas

That's for the valve cover - which is the most common leak that kills starters.

Second most common is the oil filter adapter - you just need O-rings for that one, but you'll have a real PITA pulling the through bolt on that one. RENIX is usually a 5/8" Hex (takes a regular open-end wrench,) later models seems to vacillate between a T-60 and some large hex socket drive - both are not easy, because tool length becomes a concern.

A little grease on those O-rings will go a long way - by softening them slightly, and allowing them to "flow" into cracks/defects in the surface. Don't ask how I know...:wierd:

The valve cover and oil filter adapter are pretty much the only two places that leak that can get onto the starter easily - and the valve cover is more common. Besides, you're probably going to want those little tips I put out there sooner or later - I don't think I've covered that in a year or so.

5-90eace:

I've dumped a LOT of oil on starters without any harm. The Jeep starter is pretty well sealed. But you never know.

With regard to the oil filter o-rings. My 95 has the T-60 type bolt, and it was a nasty thing to get out. For one thing the socket head is not very deep, and it clogs up with crud, so the first thing you need to do is clean it out very carefully so the bit goes into it all the way and doesn't chew up the hole. The bolt is installed insanely tight.

Tool length is a real problem. I bought a 1/2 inch drive T-60 bit of the type that has the torx bit inserted into the socket, rather than a one-piece one. I then found a cheap box wrench big enough to slide over the outside of the socket, and welded it onto the socket. If the wrench has an offset, offset it so that the handle is bent in the direction of the bolt head. This leaves the socket just short enough to slip into the bolt head, with room between it and the vehicle frame to put a pry bar. The pry bar helps prevent the socket from popping out of the head when you give it the first yank. Now with a cheater bar on the cheap wrench, I give it a yank, and it breaks loose. The battle is now won, but it isn't over, because now if I keep turning the wrench, it will jam between the bolt and the frame before it comes out. So now I take the wrench off and drive out the torx bit insert, and use it alone, with a 12 mm. wrench to turn it. One of those ratcheting box wrenches would be nice, but you can just use a regular one. This is very slow and tedious, easily dropped, but reliable. Even this gets a little long at the end, but you can use water pump pliers or the like on the head of the bolt for the last few turns.

The actual O-ring repair is dead easy and the dealer gets about 5 bucks for the parts.

My first starter lasted 200k the second one (New Bosh from Napa $98.00) is going strong with 50K on it.

Sounds like these guys know the drill and yeah it's true with a reman it's 50/50. If this is any help previous starter that autozone installed went bad in under a year. Didn't wana fuss about a warranty on it but current one I installed, similar, has been going strong for a few years. So good luck, just remember the new ones are real nice if you go that route and have the green, but at reman prices, even if you get a bad one....or 2 will still be cheaper? Good luck.

ok guys just picked up a new one from advance auto parts
it was still under warranty so it was free

i'll plan on fixing the gasket on the valve cover
sense thats where the leak looks like its coming from

good guess guys !!

thanks

cas

might want to replace the starter relay as well, I had a problem with the solenoid not quite catching. Replaced 4 starters in 2 days, only to find out it was a $15 relay. its worth a look.

Unless you're RENIX (1990 and earlier,) the start relay should be a standard Bosch, available pretty much anywhere.

If you're RENIX, the relay is OEMR only - about $40. One of these days, I've got to figure out how I replaced the start relay in my 88 with a Bosch - I just did it off the cuff, and that was three or four years ago... I'll post a write-up somewhere when I finall get it done.

5-90

I don't think you can even buy a starter without a new solenoid.

got my starter from napa

shit out after only a week but they had a 2 year warrantee

gjxj said:

I don't think you can even buy a starter without a new solenoid.

Click to expand...

I think you still can for the older SBChevvy engines, but not anything else.

However, a "start relay" - as you may already know - is not a solenoid, and can be purchased separately if you need one. You can also purchase a new starter solenoid for our vehicles withou purchasing a new starter as well - but going the other way around is rather difficult.

5-90

Check the flywheel teeth. Bad spots will eat starters (I work at NAPA and see that all the time. People claim the new starter is defective so I check the flywheel before replacing)

Mine went out today as well. I was at Firestone getting my lifetime alignment and the tech couldn't get it to start. They asked me if I had a "special" way of starting her up. I told them to give it 30 min but she never came around.
I didn't tell 'em about the oil on the starter problem. What a surprise...I've got the same oil leak problem. I'm on my 2nd reman starter in 1 year. It was purchased at Pep Boys. The last time I brought it in, the sales rep stated that if I bring it again one more time, then it's probably not the starter and that I would have to get a compression/electrical test done. Do you all think I can get away with getting another one without them knowing its the 3rd time around? ? Also, I've attempted to replace the O-rings but I couldn't even get the T60 in there because of a nut in the way. Looks like it's part of the motor mount? Is it safe to just get this bolt off without doing a major breakage to the motor mounts? Thanks all!

I haven't dealt with the later models yet (RENIX was nice - 5/8" wrench and it comes off!) but I see no reason why you couldn't get a floor jack, support the engine, and take the through bolt out the the right side engine mount. Then, you can raise or lower the engine (just a bit!) to get a little more room.

It's also been done where you get a two-part T60 socket, remove the bit, and fix it to a regular wrench somehow (usually, you can find a 6-point wrench that fits the hex shank.) Then, grind or cut the length of the bit to fit in the space - it's work, but not as much as lifting the engine!

The o-rings are easiest from the dealer - I don't have measurements on them yet, and "hardware store" O-rings aren't the greatest for oil resistance.

I do highly suggest lightly greasing the O-rings before you bolt it all back down - especially the one on the through bolt! Also, take the time to clean the threads in the block before you put things back together - there are few things more purely irritating than breaking that damn bolt... It's definitely OEMR only, and I haven't gotten around to designing a suitable replacement for it yet (with a hex head...)

Bear in mind that the droids at Pep Boys (not the one on Stevens Creek, is it?) aren't exactly the swiftest - for starters, compression goes DOWN with age, not UP. And, the only time the starter is engaged electrically is when current is applied to the small solenoid terminal - if it was always on, it would be noisy as Hell! An electrical test/compression test won't help much (and regular 4.0 starters seem to have a very good service life working with strokers - which can run up to 10.5:1 compression! OEM compression is somewhere around 8.8 - 8.9:1, so no trouble there.)

I'd just make sure the "droid" who sold you that story isn't there when you take the thing in.

Oh - check the valve cover for leaks down that side as well - that's the "oil return" side, and will usually leak first. See my advice earlier on changing the gasket.

5-90

Why can't you cut up a piece of skinny aluminum or sheet metal from Home Depot and make it a 'hat'? Wrap it over the top half of the starter and zip tie it in place.

You can seal the new one very easy and keep even water out.