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Does brand of wire in my MIG make that much difference?

What Rd

What Rd

NAXJA Forum User
Location
Athens, IL
I bought my welder used and finally finished off the full spool of wire that was in it. It's a Lincoln SP-130T, with a 130 amp capacity, running off of 220 volts. I've been using the bottle of 75% carbon dioxide 25% argon that came with the welder.
I'm a totally self-taught amatuer who doesn't really understand what I'm doing, but I enjoy it and have been having very good success. I've been laying down good looking beads (or at least they look good to me and when I cut into them I see good penetration) and have even been getting better at vertical surfaces. Until today.
As I said, I finally used up the spool of wire that came in the welder. So I replaced it with a spool of Lincoln solid steel .030 wire. With just that change, the quality of my welds went straight to hell. I'm getting craters that pop, a very uneven sound instead of the "sizzling bacon" sound I'd been told was good, balls of molten steel jumping and rolling off the base metal whereas I was used to get very litle spatter, and the cooled beads appear to have little pits as opposed to the beautifully smooth and uniform surfaces I used to get. These welds suck.
Some of those jumping and popping balls of molten steel caught my jeans, leather tennis shoe and sock on fire today. Not having feeling there, my first hint of a problem was when I smelled something burning (perplexed and unhappy with my problem, I was really concentrating on my welding). So I lifted my hood and saw smoke and flames coming up my left leg. Not a sight I care to see again, I assure you. I flipped off the hood, dropped the gun and flipped over in my chair all in one motion in the general direction of the fire extinguisher. Between batting out the flames with my gloves and then discharging the extinguisher, I got the fire on my leg and on a strap on my chair put out.
So not surprisingly, my desire to get this sorted out goes beyond just getting my better quality operation back. So what happened? Why would the change of a spool of wire make SUCH a huge difference? The spool that was on there was by Radnor Welding Products, made in Italy, .035 solid.
Can't post pics, but from this description can anyone tell me what's up? My first guess was that maybe the gas had run out also, but I checked that and it's still okay. I really need help here.
TIA
 
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What Rd said:
I bought my welder used and finally finished off the full spool of wire that was in it. It's a Lincoln SP-130T, with a 130 amp capacity, running off of 220 volts. I've been using the bottle of 75% carbon dioxide 25% argon that came with the welder.
I'm a totally self-taught amatuer who doesn't really understand what I'm doing, but I enjoy it and have been having very good success. I've been laying down good looking beads (or at least they look good to me and when I cut into them I see good penetration) and have even been getting better at vertical surfaces. Until today.
As I said, I finally used up the spool of wire that came in the welder. So I replaced it with a spool of Lincoln solid steel .030 wire. With just that change, the quality of my welds went straight to hell. I'm getting craters that pop, a very uneven sound instead of the "sizzling bacon" sound I'd been told was good, balls of molten steel jumping and rolling off the base metal whereas I was used to get very litle spatter, and the cooled beads appear to have little pits as opposed to the beautifully smooth and uniform surfaces I used to get. These welds suck.
Some of those jumping and popping balls of molten steel caught my jeans, leather tennis shoe and sock on fire today. Not having feeling there, my first hint of a problem was when I smelled something burning (perplexed and unhappy with my problem, I was really concentrating on my welding). So I lifted my hood and saw smoke and flames coming up my left leg. Not a sight I care to see again, I assure you. I flipped off the hood, dropped the gun and flipped over in my chair all in one motion in the general direction of the fire extinguisher. Between batting out the flames with my gloves and then discharging the extinguisher, I got the fire on my leg and on a strap on my chair put out.
So not surprisingly, my desire to get this sorted out goes beyond just getting my better quality operation back. So what happened? Why would the change of a spool of wire make SUCH a huge difference? The spool that was on there was by Radnor Welding Products, made in Italy, .035 solid.
Can't post pics, but from this description can anyone tell me what's up? My first guess was that maybe the gas had run out also, but I checked that and it's still okay. I really need help here.
TIA
Click to expand...
For the most part wire is wire,I never had any issues with different brands.But a change in size changes everything(heat range and wire speed0.Since you went with smaller wire try increasing your wire speed.
 
RCP Phx said:
For the most part wire is wire,I never had any issues with different brands.But a change in size changes everything(heat range and wire speed0.Since you went with smaller wire try increasing your wire speed.
Click to expand...
I thought about that size difference, but I have a hard time imagining that that could have such a dramatic effect. Does it make sense that an .005 difference in the diameter of the wire would result in such a big difference in the behavior of the welder? It's like a different machine, no, more like a different process entirely. I've adjusted the wire speed and power level many times based on what I was welding but never experienced anything at all like the behavior I'm getting now.
 
Did you change the tip?Does your drive roller take .030"?
 
I'm using the same tip. According to the sticker inside the welder, the drive roller groove I'm using (same as before) is the riht one for .030 wire. It feeds the wire fine - I tested that pretty thoroughly.
 
You need to increase your wire speed or go buy .035 size and 70s2 type steel wire, and since your using MIG you need to make sure your base metal is wire brushed very well, and if its rusty go ahead and lightly grind the surface. As you have seen, the wire size makes a MAJOR diff, good luck
 
What Rd said:
I'm using the same tip. According to the sticker inside the welder, the drive roller groove I'm using (same as before) is the riht one for .030 wire. It feeds the wire fine - I tested that pretty thoroughly.
Click to expand...

Your drive rollers are capable of dealing with that size, but your tip must be matched to the wire size....030 tip for .030 wire, .035 tip for .035 wire.

HTH:D
 
Your problem is most likely caused by having the wrong tip. The tip is where the current is applied to the wire. If the hole is significantly larger than the wire then there will be poor contact and a poor current transfer. That is why you are getting such violent popping etc.

As a bit of side info for everyone; there is no industry standard on the tolerances of the hole inside a welding tip. Due to natrual variations that occur in a manufacturing processes, manufactures set their target diameters to be higher (say .037") than what is advertised on the side of the tip so that they will not make a tip with a hole that is smaller than .035". Which means that your tip will be anywhere between .035"-.040"ish. The same holds true for wire except that they plan it so that the wire won't be any larger than .035" (on a .035" spec wire). This means that at maximum material condition the wire will be .035" and the hole will be .035" but at minimum material condition the wire could be as small as .030" and the hole could be as large as .040". Now if you are running a .030" wire it is possible that your gap could be even larger.

FWIW when I was setting up robotic welding lines I would use Lincoln L-56 wire .035" wire and I would use .030" tips. After a lot of tests I found that to be the best combination but of course that was in a production situation in a home situation I would probably make my wire choice based on cost and my tips I would suggest that they match the wire diameter or the next size smaller.
 
I didn't realize that the current is applied to the wire at the tip. Now that I think about it, that makes sense. I'll look to see if I have an .030 tip (and pick one up tomorrow if I don't) and try that. The uneven sound and arc I'm getting seem like they could be caused by intermittent current flow. That the arc stops and then starts again in the middle of a puddle could be what's causing those deadly balls of molten metal to jump onto my pants, too. I even wonder if having an oversize hole in the tip is allowing too much shielding gas to blow directly onto the puddle causing the pits I'm seeing in the hardened beads.
I appreciate the advice and the knowledge. I wish I could find a class around here that taught MIG for the hobbiest.
 
What Rd said:
I even wonder if having an oversize hole in the tip is allowing too much shielding gas to blow directly onto the puddle causing the pits I'm seeing in the hardened beads.
Click to expand...

The shielding gas flows through the nozzle around the tip; not through the tip. That is why when your nozzle is too close to the puddle the spatter on the end of the nozzle will block the gas flow and you will get porosity in the weld.
 
Another thing to consider is how well your MIG is grounded to the material. Most bare steel is coated with animal fat and this will sometimes creates a grounding problem. A good ground will give you the sizzle. Try using a solvent to prep the ground surface or just grinding,sanding or filing the surface you are attaching the ground clamp to. That'll help get the sizzle on!
 
Perhaps picking up a book on welding and reading it would be in order as well. Your lack of knowledge on GMAW and FCAW processes has been demonstrated and should be addressed. Not only will it help you with current projects, but it will save you time, money, and possibly help keep you working safer (pants and chair catching on fire)

On a side note, with the GMAW (Gas Metal Arc Welding) process that you are attempting to do, the current is not coming from the tip. It is coming from the ground clamp, going through the work, and coming up the wire and into the tip. With FCAW (Flux Core Arc Welding), the current flows the other direction, from the tip, through the wire, through the work and INTO the ground clamp. Which is why you must reverse the polarity when switching from Solid MIG wire to Flux Core wire.
 
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You know, the thought of picking up a book had occurred to me. But the one I got was oriented much more toward fabrication than the "how it works" end of things. Can anyone recommend a book (or videos even) that will give me the "how it works" and "how to" I need without going overboard on technical detail more oriented to a professional? Actually, the idea of a video sounds appealing. It'd be nice to see how things look when they're going right, and when they're not.
Suggestions?
 
What Rd said:
I bought my welder used and finally finished off the full spool of wire that was in it. It's a Lincoln SP-130T, with a 130 amp capacity, running off of 220 volts. I've been using the bottle of 75% carbon dioxide 25% argon that came with the welder.
I'm a totally self-taught amatuer who doesn't really understand what I'm doing, but I enjoy it and have been having very good success. I've been laying down good looking beads (or at least they look good to me and when I cut into them I see good penetration) and have even been getting better at vertical surfaces. Until today.
As I said, I finally used up the spool of wire that came in the welder. So I replaced it with a spool of Lincoln solid steel .030 wire. With just that change, the quality of my welds went straight to hell. I'm getting craters that pop, a very uneven sound instead of the "sizzling bacon" sound I'd been told was good, balls of molten steel jumping and rolling off the base metal whereas I was used to get very litle spatter, and the cooled beads appear to have little pits as opposed to the beautifully smooth and uniform surfaces I used to get. These welds suck.
Some of those jumping and popping balls of molten steel caught my jeans, leather tennis shoe and sock on fire today. Not having feeling there, my first hint of a problem was when I smelled something burning (perplexed and unhappy with my problem, I was really concentrating on my welding). So I lifted my hood and saw smoke and flames coming up my left leg. Not a sight I care to see again, I assure you. I flipped off the hood, dropped the gun and flipped over in my chair all in one motion in the general direction of the fire extinguisher. Between batting out the flames with my gloves and then discharging the extinguisher, I got the fire on my leg and on a strap on my chair put out.
So not surprisingly, my desire to get this sorted out goes beyond just getting my better quality operation back. So what happened? Why would the change of a spool of wire make SUCH a huge difference? The spool that was on there was by Radnor Welding Products, made in Italy, .035 solid.
Can't post pics, but from this description can anyone tell me what's up? My first guess was that maybe the gas had run out also, but I checked that and it's still okay. I really need help here.
TIA
Click to expand...
I've also ran out of wire, swap to a new spool and saw a big difference , sometimes good, sometimes bad. I started noticing the labeling on the wire and saw that there was different heat and alloy numbers, some worked better than others. I guess it's a good idea to right down the info on a spool than works good for you and buy that type.
 
Found the problem today. The liner was kinked - in two places! Seems the wire I had been using was just stiff enough to push through ok, but the new roll was .005 thinner and was hanging up intermittently. When it would hang up, it was also blocking the normal flow of gas.
Installed a new liner and I'm back to happy. party1:
So - who can recommend a good video or book for me?
 
waxer said:
Which is why you must reverse the polarity when switching from Solid MIG wire to Flux Core wire.
Click to expand...
Depends on the specific classification of flux-core wire in question. For a self shielding flux-core wire, yes it runs DCEN. For gas shielded flux-core, it runs DCEP, like hardwire. All depends on the wire classification.

In my expierence, brand of wire does make a difference. My work just switched brands on their FCAW wire. Numerous complaints about the old wire. There were even sections of wire that had no flux in them. Started buying a different brand wire and it runs noticably smoother. The new mfg has a much wider sweet spot.

At work I use mostly .045 E71T-1M flux-core wire, and occasionally .035 ER70-S6 hardwire. That flux-core wire is run DCEP, with 75/25 gas. This is on a 300amp Miller. At home I use .030 E71T-GS self shielding flux-core, DCEN, 135amp Hobart.
 
The lesson to be learned here is always watch your lead.Mig's dont feed well when there is alot(or to much to the point of kinking the liner) of bends in the cable.Always move the welder to get the lead as straight as posible!
 
Since one of the kinks was right up near the box, my guess is that the lead got wrapped around the box much too tightly or pushed up against something like a wall, etc. I'll be keeping an eye on that now.
 
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