Lotus Elise?

[IXNAYXJ]

I know there are some auto-crossers and assorted racers on the board...do any of you have experience with Lotus Elises? I've come across a pretty good deal on one, and while I've driven them a couple times, I have pretty limited experience with them.

Just curious if there are any stong (somewhat educated) opinions about the cars. Thanks in advance,

-----Matt-----

[casm]

Just curious if there are any stong (somewhat educated) opinions about the cars.

Driven a couple, but never for autocross purposes. The first one was Rover-engined; the other one, about a year or so ago, had the Toyota unit. It's like night & day - it wasn't a slow car to begin with, but the extra 40bhp made it a rocketship. Handling's as sharp as you'd expect from a Lotus. The one owner I'm acquainted with says reliability isn't the nightmare it once was, but it's definitely not a daily driver. He uses it as a canyon carver, so can't even give you second-hand impressions of what it would be like in competition.

I'd go for one if I were in the market for something like that. How good of a deal are you being offered? I'd be wary of a thrashed car.

You might want to check out the Lotus Car Club (http://www.lotuscarclub.org/) - I know there're a few people there running them competitively.

[IXNAYXJ]

Driven a couple, but never for autocross purposes. The first one was Rover-engined; the other one, about a year or so ago, had the Toyota unit. It's like night & day - it wasn't a slow car to begin with, but the extra 40bhp made it a rocketship. Handling's as sharp as you'd expect from a Lotus. The one owner I'm acquainted with says reliability isn't the nightmare it once was, but it's definitely not a daily driver. He uses it as a canyon carver, so can't even give you second-hand impressions of what it would be like in competition.

I'd go for one if I were in the market for something like that. How good of a deal are you being offered? I'd be wary of a thrashed car.

You might want to check out the Lotus Car Club (http://www.lotuscarclub.org/) - I know there're a few people there running them competitively.Thanks for the insight. Mostly reinforces my own experience. The only way I'd own one is with the Toyota motor. I'm no fan of variable valve timing, or VVT-i as Toyota calls it, but they've made some adjustments so it's more driveable. With the factory Stage II exhaust, it even sounds good. It's pretty hard to argue with 0-60 in 4.5 seconds! :D

The car in question only has 3200 miles, so I not TOO worried about the condition. It's got the Sport pkg and Touring pkg...which is what I'd want. Silver over Navy Blue hides. Not my first choice, but it'd work for six months or so.

We'll see how it turns out. Thanks again for the info.

-----Matt-----

1st choice would, of course, be BRG...maybe with a yellow stripe. ;)

http://www.nextcar.com.au/i.lotus.elise.111R.280704.jpg

[Bent]

1st choice would, of course, be BRG, tan leather...maybe with a yellow stripe. ;)


Ficksed fer ya.

:)

[IXNAYXJ]

Ficksed fer ya.

:)Yeah, but the Brits would call tan leather "Biscuit Hides." ;)

-----Matt-----

This is pretty sharp too, though:

http://www.parkplaceltd.com/webinventory/images/L093/L093-3l.jpg

[casm]

Pedantic trivia bit:

The correct name for BRG is 'Connaught Green'. Originally, Connaught Green was the colour of Irish racing teams prior to independence from Britain being acheived in 1922. However, British teams were also using the colour - and the name 'British Racing Green' stuck.

As an artifact of its origins, the Morgan Motor Company still refers to the colour as 'Connaught Green' in its sales literature (http://www.morgan-motor.co.uk/sales/44.html).

Either way, it always requires a tan interior :D

[IXNAYXJ]

Pedantic trivia bit:

The correct name for BRG is 'Connaught Green'. Originally, Connaught Green was the colour of Irish racing teams prior to independence from Britain being acheived in 1922. However, British teams were also using the colour - and the name 'British Racing Green' stuck.

As an artifact of its origins, the Morgan Motor Company still refers to the colour as 'Connaught Green' in its sales literature (http://www.morgan-motor.co.uk/sales/44.html).

Either way, it always requires a tan interior :DNice! But I'll see your pedantic trivia, and raise you. Do you know how Germany got Silver as their national racing color?

-----Matt-----

[casm]

Nice! But I'll see your pedantic trivia, and raise you. Do you know how Germany got Silver as their national racing color?

-----Matt-----

Ack... Wasn't it something to do with requiring fewer coats of paint to look good, thus saving weight? God, I haven't heard this one in a long time.

[IXNAYXJ]

Ack... Wasn't it something to do with requiring fewer coats of paint to look good, thus saving weight? God, I haven't heard this one in a long time.NO paint...bare aluminum...to save weight. I've always loved that story. Almost as good as the Horch/Audi tale.

-----Matt-----

[casm]

NO paint...bare aluminum...to save weight.

*Smacks head* duh, that was it :)

I've always loved that story. Almost as good as the Horch/Audi tale.

Clue me in... Not sure I remember that one.

[98XJSport]

I have a '00 celica with the 2zz engine which i think the lotus in question would have. Im not usually a fan of the hi-revving little 4 cylinders just cause all Ive ever owned is I-6 jeeps before this car. But Lift is impressive, the VVTL-i is fun when you have the room to cut it loose. From what Ive researched its a good pretty reliable engine for not being in a Jeep. Don't know about the rest of the car though...

[RichP]

NO paint...bare aluminum...to save weight. I've always loved that story. Almost as good as the Horch/Audi tale.

-----Matt-----

That goes along with the former comblock country that makes all the A/C cobra replacement bodies and parts. They saw nothing wrong with bare silver aluminum, it's the color they stayed with building MIG jets for the USSR airforce...
'If it was good enough for a mach2+ jet fighter it should be good enough for a 200mph car'....

[Bent]

NO paint...bare aluminum...to save weight. I've always loved that story. Almost as good as the Horch/Audi tale.

-----Matt-----

Silver Arrow?

[IXNAYXJ]

I was able to put about 400 miles on both an Exige and an Elise this weekend, and came away VERY impressed. Those cars sure get a lot of attention, especially the Exige in "Chrome Orange."

This is the car I started the day in, 2006 Exige:
http://www.parkplaceltd.com/webinventory/images/L118/L118-4l.jpg

The other car, a 2005...possibly my new car:
http://www.parkplaceltd.com/webinventory/images/L103A/L103A-1l.jpg

What made it even cooler, is the other car (2005 Silver Elise, above) was being driven by Peter Brock (!). For those of you who don't know who he is, he designed the Shelby Daytona Coupe (below), as well as a bunch of other important race cars over the last 40 years. He also writes for a bunch of car magazines.

The Peter Brock designed Superformance Shelby Daytona Coupe:
http://www.roadandtrack.com/assets/image/11172004102424.jpg

There were a couple reason for the trip: One was to get me some more seat time in an Elise to see if I wanted to buy one, and at the same time drive the cars to a British car show a couple hundred miles away from Seattle as publicity for the local high-end car dealership. They have a Lotus franchise, as well as some others...including Superformance. www.parkplaceltd.com They build very high quality Cobra replicas, as well as a Brock designed Daytona Coupe recreation.

Anyway, Peter Brock was in the dealership as we were discussing the trip, and he said "That sounds like fun! Can I come?" Um, yes! He was planning on taking his personal Daytona Coupe, which he had just put new slicks on. Unfortunately, the morning we were leaving, it started to rain and we had a 3000 ft mountain pass to cross. 500 hp, RWD, DOT slicks and near freezing rain...needless to say, he left the Daytona.

We switched back and forth between the cars and drivers during the trip, and mainteined triple digit speed for most of the time. After crossing over into the Eastern side of Washington, the clouds parted and it was a beautiful 70 degrees for the rest of the day. It's kind of an understatement, but it was one of the most amazing weekends of my life. I've got some pics on my digital camera that I'll post in the next couple of days, including a couple of speedometer shots! In the meantime, here's one from my phone:

View through mirror of Orange Exige, followed by Elise.

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/ixnayxj/1147121618.jpg

-----Matt-----

[IXNAYXJ]

That goes along with the former comblock country that makes all the A/C cobra replacement bodies and parts. They saw nothing wrong with bare silver aluminum, it's the color they stayed with building MIG jets for the USSR airforce...
'If it was good enough for a mach2+ jet fighter it should be good enough for a 200mph car'....Kirkham Cobras. Very cool folks! Using out of work MiG factory workers to fabricate the aluminum bodies for Shelby replicas was pure genius. They do paint most of them, though.

http://www.kirkhammotorsports.com/m/images/stories/kms500/kw427sc007x500.jpg

Silver Arrow?Yup...that's where the name comes from.

http://www.gemmrig.de/hhf/pictures/pic_hhf_1994_silberpfeil_0001_582x334x16m.jpg

-----Matt-----

[xjblue]

"sigh" Lotus Elise...dream of commuting in one nearly every day...
http://utahpictures.com/images/EmigrationRidge/smparleysCAN.jpg

[LilRedRover]

I know there are some auto-crossers and assorted racers on the board...do any of you have experience with Lotus Elises? I've come across a pretty good deal on one, and while I've driven them a couple times, I have pretty limited experience with them.

Just curious if there are any stong (somewhat educated) opinions about the cars. Thanks in advance,

-----Matt-----

buddy who lives in delaware now has an 05 Elise... power to weight ratio is EXTREMELY impressive... interior is comfortable, yet sporty for sure, and the suspension is suprisingly soft for a high end sports car where stiff is what is found most of the time... My only complaint would be that althought it accelerates well, the high end isn't quite what it could be with a larger European engine, such as porsche or ferrari... all in all I think the Lotus is a great car for the money.

[IXNAYXJ]

I'll be at Pacific Raceways (formerly Seattle International Raceway) tomorrow with the local Lotus dealership for a track day. Hopefully this will give me some more answers...and if not, I still will get to drive the doors off an Elise!

ECKSJAY will be there documenting the experience in the afternoon, so we should have some great pics to show off. The course is pretty fun with LOTS of elevation change to chew up brakes...which is why I probably won't drive my car.

I MIGHT take my track car out, but if the Elise is as fun as I'm hoping, I'll spend the whole day in one of those...and save my tires and brakes!

http://www.proformanceracingschool.com/_uimages/PRtrackmap.jpg

-----Matt-----

[ECKSJAY]

ECKSJAY will be there documenting the experience in the afternoon, so we should have some great pics to show off. The course is pretty fun with LOTS of elevation change to chew up brakes...which is why I probably won't drive my car.

I can't wait! The way the weather has been I should get great pics. :) I'm anxious to try out the Nikon's high-speed focusing.

[CanMan]

Me wanna go! Me wanna go!

Ive ran the road coarse in my '72 C10 before, we were out there painting the barrier walls and decided to dick off a little. Got up to 110 on the straight away. The S(3a, 3b) hill going down is soo fun to do! Its short, but very fun.

[Grant]

as far as auto-x specific - here goes.

the Lotus runs in SS (super stock) in the SCCA events. That means running against C5 Z06's. The Loti have managed some wins in SS in the hands of the very best drivers - Matt Braun, Junior Johnson.

But it seems the Lotus suffers depending on the course design. Wide open flowing courses favor the Vette's. The Vette's do very well in the ProSolo's where launch is important. One of the remaining problems with the Lotus is getting suitable rubber to fit. I still don't think there are suitable sizes in Kumho V710 available so Hoosier has been the tire to run. The new A6 Hoosiers have reduced the gap to the Kumho's - they may even be slightly faster, but wear and longevitiy are yet to be determined. The A6's definitely handle lack of camber better than the S05's or S04's.

I know that Lotus changed the spec on the Elise - I think with MY2006, but possibly MY 2005. The new spec included an LSD. Some car tests I have seen indicate the car is slower in the new spec, but reports from the autocross course are that the LSD is a must have.

There are a few drivers campaigning the Lotus in Prepared classes, FP specifically. Randy Chase and Robert Puertas have been doing very well, but competition in FP is not as close as SS. I believe Randy chose that route so he could run aftermarket wheels that differ in size from stock.

The Lotus will be a blast to drive - as you have discovered, but will require a fair investment to be nationally competitive. I would guess between $10K and $15K. Probably about the same amount to prep a C5 Z06. If you only intend competing on a local level I would not change anything, and just go have fun. See if your local region runs a "street tire" class, and you won't even need race rubber.

If your intent is more toward track days, HPDE's, time trials and driving schools then the Exige is going to be a better choice ( I know your special deal is an Elise, not an Exige) Some sanctioning bodies require a roll bar on open top cars, so check with your local club to make sure your car will be legal for their track events.

The northwest region has a very strong autocross community. We see lots of racers from that region at events all over the country. Check out www.scca.org and follow the link to your local region. There will be a National Tour and a ProSolo held at the Packwood facility in early Aug. Some of our strongest Mini competitiors are from Seattle and Glenn Hernandez is also an EVO school instructor. He can show you how to extract the most performance out of the Lotus.

I've only driven the Lotus a few times. Here is what I discovered.

If you overdrive the car, they will push like a pig. Because the car is so light and tossable, overdriving is a constant concern. They do not like trailbraking, so brake early in a straight line, and be prepared to get on the gas waaaaaay before the apex. The motors rev like crazy, and the powerband is fairly tight at the upper end of the rev range. Not a concern on the autocross course, but on the track you need to keep the motor in the upper rev range. Only noticeable if you are used to Vette's where the motor pulls strongly from idle.

Great car, reasonably priced, not common. Make sure you fit comfortably with a helmet. The Elise is not too bad, but entry and exit from an Exige can be a PITA, and would be a hassle as a daily driver.

HTH

[streetpirate]

We should start a scca class to run our jeeps in.

[MuddinJeeper]

How would an Elise stack against an early-mid 90's porshce 911 or C4 cabriolet? or even a newer boxster? I need a truck for work, but have always loved exotics. For some reason I've never looked too much into the Elise, but so far it looks pretty good...

[IXNAYXJ]

How would an Elise stack against an early-mid 90's porshce 911 or C4 cabriolet? or even a newer boxster? I need a truck for work, but have always loved exotics. For some reason I've never looked too much into the Elise, but so far it looks pretty good...On a track, the Elise would make mince-meat of the Porsches you mentioned. At least I did when I was driving one at the track last time. There were a bunch of really hot cars that the Elise ran away from: 2005 996 Turbo Cab.; 2006 C6 Z51; a quartet of STi's; etc.... The only things out there that day which were beyond the Elise were a 2006 Z06, a race-prepped STi, a Noble M400, an Exige S, an Ultima GTR, and a 600 hp 930 Turbo. Pretty impressive company!

The cars inspire SO much confidence that you find yourself pushing harder than you would in a lot of other cars. The power isn't nearly as impressive as my M3, but they do just fine. The only place I could see my M keeping up with the Elise is on the straight.

For a daily driver? The Elise is not as much fun. That's why I ultimately kept the BMW; it's quicker in most day-to-day situautions and doesn't beat you up like the Elise. Also, make sure you can actually get in and out of them. Even at 23 and 150 lbs, it was challenging to do it gracefully. It's the old AGIF principle for sure.

Anyway, good luck with your search.

-----Matt-----

[MuddinJeeper]

shite you're kidding...porsche isn't exactly a slouch brand either...more luxury than performance, I suppose? I'm a little surprised...it doesn't make reams of hp...and I would think the power to weight ratio wouldn't make up for it on a higher hp (albeit heavier) porsche...thanks

[MuddinJeeper]

haha double post