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front Triangulation idea!!!

COXJ

COXJ

NAXJA Member #989
Location
Golden/ Arvada, CO
ok i know i cant draw on paint but check it out i think it gets the basic idea acrosshttp://community.webshots.com/photo/63626949/84448859zMKMPu
the red is your normal long arm set up the yellow is a currie like j arm set up traingulated to the center of axel. is there any reason why this wouldnt work?

WIll
 
What this will give you, esentially, is a front suspension that behaves exactly like a radius arm, without the need for a trackbar....and, there are some fabricating and joint issues you'll need to think hard about.....I have not drawn out, or printed your model, to see if I could plot any pinion movement, but if that program you are using allows for any kind of motion plotting, you may find that you are leaving lots of room for axle rotation, since the upper and lower arms are operating on the same arc center, even though they have different arc radii.......

I'm no expert, I'm int he process of researching and building my own set-up, but I'm not too wild about this concept for many reasons....
 
what if you raise the front/center j arm mounting locations to just above the axel tube and then the lowers just below the axel tube? obtw im using ms paint fyi i havent started my engineering classes yet and wont for about a year. ill try to make another sketch right quick

WIll
 
I'm no expert or even close. But you might want to think about the routing of the arms.. I'd think it would be better to run them OVER the axle instead of under it, better ground clearence.
Keith
 
http://community.webshots.com/photo/63626949/84453282tBRFeC

there is the link to the re design for axel twist. any way keith if you go under the jeep you will notice that you have almost no vert clearence if you are running long arms they hit the drive shaft and the oil pan. by running them under the axel you solve the clearence isue and if you fallow any of curries product line or watch rock crawling and se there rig or pick up i believe july isue of JP the strangler all use the J arms cuz they give you the movement of a longer streight arm so i figure mount the triangulated arm just in front of the others would make i believe the same arc so ya have a radius arm like beezil said

WIll
 
no, yer not following me......

"axle twist"....meaning "caster change".....

the way I'm plotting it, you are going to have SICK pinion angle rotation.....
 
what happens when ya run short uppers and long uppers? or what would happen if you move the try links folward = amount on the frame ya know what i am sayin there? like if the try links are 4 in folward of the arms then move the mounting for the try arms folward 4 in? would what work?

WIll
 
the way I see it your axle would "flip-flop" forward and backwards and easy 20 degrees or so....there is no axle control....

this has to do with how obtuse your triangle is......

if point a is your frame mount (both upper and lower share the plane of "a") and b is your lower, and c is your upper, you included angles do not allow for stability....the axle mount of the red arm is free to swing under and over the axle mount of the yellow arm....the angle b-c-a is WAY too obtuse.

you need to have at least 7-8" of seperation between your axle mounts, perpendicular to the radial of your frame mounts to achieve rotational stability of the axle tube.....
 
furthermore, once you control axle wrap, your axle is still moving in an arc and is esentially a radius arm, so at that point, theres no benefit from having curves in the wishbone arm, as far as I can see from plotting your axle movement....

1.jpg
 
i got ya there makes more scence now. so you got a program that lets ya plot points and move them around to se how something works? if ya do if you are fimiler with toyota design the pardon the crude attempt but like an f layed down were one arm controols all move ment of axel from a pinion stand point. then use a triangulatin in center or would this bind? i need some software so i can throw these ideas around in my head

WIll
 
22.JPG


if you can imagine in your head the motion the axle takes, you might be able to understand what I'm plotting.....

if the yellow arm stays fixed, I content that the angularity of the red arm in relation to the other fixed points allows it to move within the shaded red area......
 
aboutn the only thing that keeps the axle rotating in the above senario is vehicle weight....I could see where someone could utilize something liek this and build in some anti-squat, but it can't work that way on a front axle.....
 
what program are you doing this on? i like, i want. any way i se how this works now it would work if the axel only moved streight up and down liek jumpin a jeep not flexing out. thanks for the info.

WIll
 
i cant get my circles to work grrr pluss i only have paint but im gonna keep lookin. and say you keep the radius arms like you hade in moab right then ran the tri arms on the exact same plane as the long lowers this would eliminat binding right? and controol pinion motion just liek b4 try correct im tryin to work out pic lol takes me a wile not a pro

WIll
 
I dunno paint, but on photshop, if you wanna draw circles, you center the pointer on whatever you want to be the center of the arc.....you press both the shift and alt key......i forget which button does what, but one constrains the "elliptical" tool to a circle, the other button changes between "center" and "tangent" of where you wanna locate your ellipse or circle.......
 
i cant get any circle action for arc of suspensino in ms paint i need to go get a cumpous but its to late and i live to far from town to run to store any way. now i wont sleep great.

WIll
 
yer like that too huh?

I hate that shit......

I'm getting four-five hours of sleep lately......

when my eyes do close, I start second guessing every design decision I made int he garage that night.....

hey if it get real bad, tie some string around a pencil, and use a wall tack as your pointer.....


"emergancy compass"
 
i think i was 2 sec ahead of ya on that now my calender is on the ground but at least i can draw circles lol. this is why i wanna go to engineering school so i can actualy know what im talkin bout instead of just making guesses educated but still guesses

WIll
 
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