Brake pads

Today I had the tires on my '96 rotated and the guy told me my front brakes are almost down to bare metal. He also gave me a $300 quote to install new ones. I can nearly get another cherokee for that!

My problem: I don't know s**t about brakes. I do have a repair manual. How big of a job is it to replace the front pads? Is this something a beginner can do with basic hand tools in an afternoon, without too much swearing and blood? Do the rotors HAVE to be resurfaced/replaced as well? Or is that just if they are damaged?

Also, what brake pads would you guys recommend? On Autozone's website I see they range from $15 to $50.

300 bucks sounds a little spendy, but it is fairly easy to do by yourself.

Read the manual throughly, and then have at it.

You can accomplish them with common hand tools and a C clamp.

You can take your rotors somewhere to have them turned. But most of the time if there is no grooves in them, take some 60 grit sandpaper and give them a good ruffing up, to take off the glaze.

It's not a hard job. Should take a beginner about 1 to 1 1/2 hrs. going slow.
Basic hand tools should cover just about everything. You will need a C clamp or the special tool to compress the caliper. You can get that at Auto-zone. Rotors only need turned it they are grooved or warped. I used the Performance Friction pads from AZ, they are high priced, but they have a lifetime warranty. HTH. JIM.

ILLXJ said:

they are high priced, but they have a lifetime warranty.

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As in, when they wear out you get new ones? Seems like an unprofitable warranty for parts made to wear out!

Would it also be safe to assume the back ones are probably worn out as well? I'm pretty sure the front and back brakes were replaced by the previous owner about 30k miles ago.

I takes about as much time to get the tires off the ground and removed as it does to change the pads. Maybe 45 minutes total, an hour if you are anal (like me I wash everything). Maybe a little longer if your tool set is short a couple of tools that make it easier. Or the rotors are severly grooved or the brake lines are cracked.
It's not really hard, but niether is cooking eggs, but even that can be kind of rough the first time through.
$300 is way out of line for just a pad change. For $160 you can get new rotors and pads (OEM), plus a hour and a quarter labor. For another $80 new brake flex lines and maybe another hour and half of work.
I'd have somebody else look at it. A good project for the local auto craft shop or community college. Raybestos is a good mid quality brake part that works good enough. The pads cost around $35 retail.
The book says front brake pad replacement should cost $70 in parts and take 1 hour.

It shouldn't take long. Basic work.

Your front brakes do 80% of the work. If you have rear drums, than you should rarely have to replace those. If you are easy on your brakes, a good set of drums will last about 100k.

Get quality pads, the cheapest pads will make noise, perform poorly and wear quickly. I usually spend at least $40 for a set of pads, I usually look for quality name brand, like Bendix or Raybestos PG+. Qaulity pads should come with the anti-rattle shims, if they are bare, they are poor quality.

Rotors? If your brakes perform well and don't make a lot of noise, chances are your rotors are in good shape. Do a visual inspection, if they look fine and aren't too groovey (run your fingernail across them, if your nail bounces over the grooves they're too tall/deep, if your nail can stay in contact with the surface the whole time, you should be fine) you can re-use them.

If you have brake problems now, like noise, pulsating peddle, etc. I'd replace/turn the rotors even if they look fine. There are lots of things that can be wrong with rotors that you can't see.

Make sure you clean the contact points were the pads slide on rails thoroughly, I use some sandpaper and a file if they are nicked. Then make sure to grease the rails/contacts points and the pressure points where the caliper contacts the pads. You should use Silicone Brake Grease, its a couple of dollars for a tube, but you can get those little $1 job packs at autozone.

Check the bushings on the calipers, the pins/bolts that run through it and connect it to the steering knuckle. The rubber needs to be in good shape and the pins should the same and clean. It doesn't hurt to take out the pins, clean them up and regrease them with fresh grease. If the bushings are in bad shape, go to the parts store, they usually have a new set for ~$10.

Do NOT get any grease on the pads where they contact the rotor and the same for the rotor. If you do, use brake cleaner to clean it off.

Wow said:

As in, when they wear out you get new ones? Seems like an unprofitable warranty for parts made to wear out!

Would it also be safe to assume the back ones are probably worn out as well? I'm pretty sure the front and back brakes were replaced by the previous owner about 30k miles ago.

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That's what the warranty says. I put a set on in 2002 & they still have about 1/2 thickness on the pad. The warranty is for the original purcheser (sp) only. When a company puts a LTW on parts like this they don't figure you will own the car, truck ect. long enough to wear the parts out. The next owner isn't covered. JIM.

Good pads always seem to have a "lifetime warranty". Any do-it-yourselfers try to make good on that? I assume they'll make me bring the car in for inspection or some other bs so I dont bother.

gjxj said:

Good pads always seem to have a "lifetime warranty". Any do-it-yourselfers try to make good on that? I assume they'll make me bring the car in for inspection or some other bs so I dont bother.

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I had a lifetime warranty on shocks I bought for my S10, labor was covered too, had them done at sears. They replaced 12 complete sets and it did not cost me a dime. I put 680,000mi on that truck...after set 6 or so they started giving me a hard time and would not replace them unless they were leaking, push the nose down and it would bounce 8 or 9 times didn't matter. OK, I can play that game, couple squirts of oil with a gun solved that one..

The front brakes are pretty easy, tools needed,
jackstands make life easier
floor jack to get it up on the stands
3/8 socket set
Small tube of anti-seize unless you plan on working alot on your jeep, if thats the case get the big can of anti-seize.
Check your brake calipers for the type of bolt or socket, some have bolts, some have allens.
C clamp for brakes, $6 at AA or one of the mart stores.
Personally I don't turn rotors, cost is almost the same as new ones around here for the machine shop so I just replace them.

Around here a national muffler chain is advertising $99/axle to change either pads or shoes. Of course there is always a "chance" they will need to do more work once they have your car apart.

At the last "safety" inspection the "mechanic" just pulled the dust plug from the backing plate on the drum brake to see that the shoes were thick enough. I've never been able to see squat this way, may be he has more experience?

An easy install...follow below:

http://www.jeephorizons.com/tech/brake_front2.html

I second the above on this. It's a good do-it-yourself job if you're careful, and if you have no current brake problems that indicate bad rotors or calipers, then all you'll pay for is the pads. Anyway, I think for 300 bucks an axle you could probably buy new rotors and preloaded calipers (which you really don't need).

As far as I know, the 96 has the same brakes as the 95. A pretty easy job, and the bolts are 10 millimeter hex heads, no oddball allens like the old ones. About an 8 inch C-clamp should do the job of retracting the pistons. don't hang the calipers by the hose. Get a piece of coat hanger or something to hang them on the spring. Basic rule of this kind of work: do only one side at a time, so if you lose track of anything, you can use the other side as a reference.

On lifetime warrantees, I've never collected on pads, but I have on NAPA shocks, and on muffler warrantees. I'm on the third replacement under warrantee for the GM lifetime muffler on my Chevy truck. The muffler cost about twice what it should have, but I'm ahead now and I still have the warrantee. Of course I've had the truck for 16 years, and with 42 thousand miles on the clock, I imagine I'll have it a little longer unless the frame breaks in half from the rust.

Years ago my dad bought a Midas muffler for his '58 CJ5. We used it for plowing, and it spent the rest of its winters in a cold, damp dark garage. It went through a muffler a year. After he died, I kept it for a while, but since I already had a very robust Scout, I sold it for 75 bucks (I know, but it was 1974, folks!). After about 15 years, It had 10 thousand miles on the clock, original tires even, and the frame was rusted through practically from one end to the other. It was on its second set of springs because the first set had rusted out. And it needed a valve job after having spent about 9 of those 10 thousand miles plowing driveways. But it had a shiny new muffler!

my writeup:
http://www.capitaljeeps.com/xjtech/brakepads/brakepads.shtml
any questions, ask.

Wow said:

As in, when they wear out you get new ones? Seems like an unprofitable warranty for parts made to wear out!

Would it also be safe to assume the back ones are probably worn out as well? I'm pretty sure the front and back brakes were replaced by the previous owner about 30k miles ago.

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Or is it no defects for lifetime of 'product'? (fine print disclaimer)

Almost all limited lifetime warranties are for the original purchaser. They do not transfer to a new owner if the vehicle is sold.

I have always shopped Advance (and Autozone back in the 90's), and have taken advantage of the warranty on shocks, brake pads, and all sorts of other things. It's practically a "get two for the price of one" deal. And I'm not talking about cheap crap either; Monroe, Bendix, etc brandnames. As was stated previously, the trick is keeping the car long enough to cash in on the warranty. Most people can't seem to hang onto the same car more than a few years...

Rick Anderson said:

Get quality pads, the cheapest pads will make noise, perform poorly and wear quickly. I usually spend at least $40 for a set of pads, I usually look for quality name brand, like Bendix or Raybestos PG+. Qaulity pads should come with the anti-rattle shims, if they are bare, they are poor quality.

Rotors? If your brakes perform well and don't make a lot of noise, chances are your rotors are in good shape. Do a visual inspection, if they look fine and aren't too groovey (run your fingernail across them, if your nail bounces over the grooves they're too tall/deep, if your nail can stay in contact with the surface the whole time, you should be fine) you can re-use them.

If you have brake problems now, like noise, pulsating peddle, etc. I'd replace/turn the rotors even if they look fine. There are lots of things that can be wrong with rotors that you can't see.

Make sure you clean the contact points were the pads slide on rails thoroughly, I use some sandpaper and a file if they are nicked. Then make sure to grease the rails/contacts points and the pressure points where the caliper contacts the pads. You should use Silicone Brake Grease, its a couple of dollars for a tube, but you can get those little $1 job packs at autozone.

Check the bushings on the calipers, the pins/bolts that run through it and connect it to the steering knuckle. The rubber needs to be in good shape and the pins should the same and clean. It doesn't hurt to take out the pins, clean them up and regrease them with fresh grease. If the bushings are in bad shape, go to the parts store, they usually have a new set for ~$10.

Do NOT get any grease on the pads where they contact the rotor and the same for the rotor. If you do, use brake cleaner to clean it off.

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just wanted to throw this out there raybestos' parent company Afinity based in erie pa is moving to mexico. and thus raybestos will no longer be american made thought id throw that out there for anyone who cares. i do if aint american made it doesnt get put on my jeep.

Its a valid concern that quality may drop when they move manufacturering from the U.S. to Mexico. As well, its just as valid to worry about much of the U.S. manufacturering base moving off shore, BUT:

Its a global economy, trade and shifting of older technology parts of the economy to growing less developed nations as the more developed nations expand higher tech economies is good for everyone. Nothing wrong with dirt farmers in third world nations trying to make a better life for themselves. I don't have a problem with trading with other nations, and buying their goods, just like they buy ours and our technology.

Of course if they're inferior brake pads, I'm not buying.

Just my two cents worth. Whatever you do, don't let the calipers hang by the flex brake line. Get a good piece of wire (coathanger) and tie it up out of the way, without any kinks in the lines. Tie it up good enough so it won't fall down if you bump it.
The flex brake lines are made in layers. But if the outside layer is cracked (which will often happen if the line kinks), it will fail you for most any inspection. At an inspeciton station or a roadside check.
One of those little things, you see even professionals screw up.

ILLXJ said:

It's not a hard job. Should take a beginner about 1 to 1 1/2 hrs. going slow.
Basic hand tools should cover just about everything. You will need a C clamp or the special tool to compress the caliper. You can get that at Auto-zone. Rotors only need turned it they are grooved or warped. I used the Performance Friction pads from AZ, they are high priced, but they have a lifetime warranty. HTH. JIM.

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not all pads are created equal though just becuase the AZ pads have a lifetime warranty in no way makes them a good pad... trust me i use to work there, i would get returns all the time for rotors being deeply scared becuase of them, the duralast pads cracking and the friction material just breaking of the backing plates. go with a set of bendix or a set from auto part international the both just have a two year warranty but they will last alot longer and there just a much better pad... just my 2 cents