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A/C charging?

Mikel

NAXJA Forum User
Hello,
My 95's A/C has been blowing warmer than usual since last summer and I see bubbles in the sight glass, so I'm assuming I'm low on refrigerant. How hard is it to add refrigerant yourself? I'd hate to pay $120 for an A/C place to do it, if all that's needed is to connect a R134 can to the system.

How is this done, and what do I need?

Thank you.

Mikel :read:
 
Mikel said:
Hello,
My 95's A/C has been blowing warmer than usual since last summer and I see bubbles in the sight glass, so I'm assuming I'm low on refrigerant. How hard is it to add refrigerant yourself? I'd hate to pay $120 for an A/C place to do it, if all that's needed is to connect a R134 can to the system.

How is this done, and what do I need?

Thank you.

Mikel :read:
Are you sure it's even a R134 system?
 
'95 should be R-134a refrigerant. It's as easy as picking up a charging kit at AutoZone. The kit comes with a hose that connects to the low side port (smaller port on the fatter hose) and a can of R-134 refrigerant. Price depends on the price of refrigerant (last year it was quite expensive), but it's still cheaper than having a shop charge it.

It does sound like you have a small leak. You could charge it yourself every summer with AutoZone refrigerant (keep the hose, you only have to buy the full kit once, afterwards you can just buy enough R-134a to charge the system). Just remember, the leak isn't going to fix itself and it'll probably get worse as time goes on. It would be cheaper in the long run to pay a shop with the proper equipment to diagnose and fix the leak.
 
Hello,
The leak cannot be that big, since my A/C's performance has been deteriorating for the last two summers. Last year it was marginal, and now it is a bit worse, but still works.

Thank you all.

Mikel
 
Add coolant soon. If the system looses too much of it's charge, you will get air/moisture into the system. If that happens, you'll have to have the system evacuated before recharging. Check to see if your filter/dryer is replaceable without evacuation. It will have special disconnect fittings, allowing you to remove the unit without actually opening the system to the atmospher. You the get a replacement that has been charged before re installation.
 
You pretty much have to have an open line to get air/moisture in the system. Even when the AC is static and not being used, its 50PSI or more over ambient pressure, nothing is going to leak in. If the system leaks, pressure will drop, but still stay above ambient pressures, keeping anything from leaking in. The low pressure switch, ~27PSI for an R-134a system, will keep the system from turning on at all if the pressure is below that. If you can get the compressor to engage, even it its just a second, your above that pressure. Sure it possible to leak out all the refrigerant and pressure is reduced to ambient levels and let air/moisture leak in, but its very unlikely, it usually only happens with broken/open lines and blown seals that let all the refrigerant leak out within seconds. Usually with slow leaks from detiorated seals, the seals still keep enough pressure that its above ambient and doesn't let air/moisture in.

If you have a very slow leak, like it takes several years for the AC performance to detiorate, then tighten all your lines, that sometimes is enough to stop the leak, or at least slow it down to a lot less.

R-12 and R-134a systems have different pressure ports, so that you can't accidentally fill it with the wrong refrigerant. So if the R-134a fill tube you bought fits, then you have an R-134a system. I have a '95 and its a R-134a System. I "THINK" the last R-12 systems for all cars was phased out by '92.

The best way to service an A/C system is too put the proper pressure gauges on it and properly diagnosis the problem. If you do an improper diagnosis, which if you don't know the actual pressures in the system, you can't do a proper diagnosis, you can waste a lot of money on improper repairs or damage the A/C system, which costs a lot of money.

That being said, if you don't want to spend the $80-$120 on the A/C gauges, it does sound like your low on refrigerant. IF YOUR WILLING TO RISK IT, then yea, fill it with a can or two of refrigerant.

If you don't have gauges, which is the only way to get a close to proper servicing level of refrigerant, than the closest way to get the proper level is too: Watch the low pressure/return line (the cold one) from the firewall, as you add the R-134a watch that line near the firewall, it should get cold enough that water starts to condense on the line. When the water condenses enough that it starts to bead up/sweats, add another once, continuing charging a few seconds more, then you should have enough.

With the motor running and the A/C turned on full (in recirculate) with the fan going as fast as possible (windows open helps), hook up the charge hose and start charging the system with R-134a. You hook it up too the low pressure/return line, the fittings are different between the 2 lines, so you shouldn't be able to screw it up. Remember the low press/return line is the one from the firewall to the compressor, the high press/supply line is the one from the compressor the condenser. Make sure the can is upright, upside down then liquid refrigerant will run thru the line and can stay liquid long enough that it can hit the compressor and damage it, keep the can upright and only evaporated refrigerant/vapor will enter the lines. Have a bucket of very hot water nearby, as the charging starts to slow and the can is running out of steam, drop the can in the bucket of hot water (still hooked up to the A/C), the hot water will get the last of the refrigerant in the can to evaporate and get it into the system. Stop charging a few seconds after the return line starts to sweat fully, like I said above.

Remember the pressures in an A/C system are very high, the refrigerant in the can will move very slowly, it may take 20 minutes a can to get all the refrigerant out. Just shake the can, you can tell if any is left over. Remember, even the low pressure side (also called the suction hose) is at a high pressure, its called low pressure/suction because thats realative to the rest of the system, relative to the outside air, the low pressure/suction side is still high pressure.

The A/C has to running to charge the system, to create a suction/lower pressure on one hose. If the A/C is not running, the pressures in the system will be higher than whats in the can and no refrigerant will move out of the can. Only when the A/C system is very low or empty is the pressure low enough that the refrigerant will move out of the can with the system off, and then it will stop when a 1/3 of the can or less has entered the system because the pressure will raise enough to equal whats in the can.

If your A/C is not even coming on because the pressure is too low from the leak, still charge it just like above, even though the compressor isn't coming on. As you add refrigerant, the pressure will raise enough and the system will turn on and you can continue just like above.

Consider adding a can of 1 oz of R-134a oil, preferably PAG, the oil mixes with the refrigerant and can leak out with it. You need to have enough oil to keep the system completely lubed and lasting as long as possible. Thats the way to find leaks, is too look for the residual oil left over from the leak.
 
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I got a 19oz kit with a pressure gage, will be trying it this weekend - After reading your posts, the idea of blindly pressurizing my system didn't seem that smart.
Thank you all.
 
Rick Anderson said:
I have a '95 and its a R-134a System. I "THINK" the last R-12 systems for all cars was phased out by '92.

In production, the XJ line was switched over to 134a mid-way through the 1994 model year. If you get the FSM for a '94, it illustrates the R-12 system, and then comes with a small "supplement" that shows specifics of the R-134a system, including the temperature/pressure conversion charts.

Our '94 was built in June of 1994 according to the build sheet, and came with R-134a plumbing. I looked for this specifically when I bought it.

I suppose R-12 systems could always have been converted to 134a later, though, especially if they broke for some reason. The connectors should tell the story.
 
Are XJ's technically classified as TRUCKS? That may be why they switched later to the R-134a.

The 1992 phase out date I'm thinking about may have been for cars and trucks were later. OR maybe it was just 1994 all along.
 
Mr Anderson as always, great step by step. =)

For whats its worth I have R12 system and went all summer last year with no A/c. It would blow like whatever the air temperature is outside in. Hour and a half commute in a suit for school, I would show up soaking wet. This summer Im doing the Conversion/recharge.
 
Find the leak[add dye and then drive it around for a few days, then look for it with a UV? flashlight] then evacuate the system, replace/repair the leak, then recharge. This is what I have/am going to do with my 95 ZJ. There is a small leak be the condensor. We hooked gauges up to it and ran it. The low and high side pressures where a little weak, but the a/c still preformed good. Outside air: 70, A/c air 50 degrees. I'm taking a HVAC class at my local community college. Thus I'm gonna do it in class. butyeah.

OH! if you really want to know whats in your system, my school has a refridgrant idenifier. Maybe a auto school by you has one.... My friends 89 accord, we found R12, 134A and HC[hyrdocarbons] in his system... I wonder if that was causing it not to work. That and he had NO pressure in the system. HA!. Fun stuff.
 
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Awesome right up... I actually just took my tech class on ac this past weekk and you hit everything on the head. Pipes xj... If you need a hand let me know.
 
R-12 and R-134a have different fittings on the systems. If you want to know whats in the system, just look up a picture of the fitting for the system and you can tell by that.

Even if R-12 system is retrofitted to R-134a, there are adapter fittings that are suppossed to be permantely screwed on that are the R-134a system. Since you couldn't hook up any R-134a cans or equipment without those adapter fittings, it would be really unusual to find a retrofit without the proper adapter fittings on the system to show you what refrigerant is in the system.
 
Why convert to R-134a when you can use Freeze 12 refrigerant a cheap legal R-12 replacement. Its called Johnson's Freeze 12 and it works great probably better than R-134a and you don't have to buy all those fittings just 1 hose to hook up to your R12 system. Might want to check it out.
 
Rick Anderson said:
Are XJ's technically classified as TRUCKS? That may be why they switched later to the R-134a.

The 1992 phase out date I'm thinking about may have been for cars and trucks were later. OR maybe it was just 1994 all along.

'94 cars were heavy on advertising "ozone-friendly" A/C... so I would assume that "some did, some didn't".

I'll bet the cutoff was Jan 1 1994 or 1995.

I know that I bought R-12 in cans in the fall of 1992, knowing that retail sales were stopping soon.

Den
 
Aquit45 said:
My r-12 system works a lot better then our brand new dodge truck.

But that has little to do with the refrigerant...

Yes, R-12 has a better cooling capacity that R-134a... but the 134 systems have been redesigned to compensate. My dad's '99 Ram will freeze you out of the cab within ten minutes.
 
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