Rims- stumperd local tire shops

Okay, here goes;

96 Cherokee with a Dana 44 rear and Dana 30 front, 5 on 4.5, 15x8 steel rims, BFG 33x12.50x15 T/A's.

Had a bad wobble so took it to Discount Tire, where I bought both tires and rims. There was a huge balance issue on one tire, but after checking they found all four to have the same issue.

The center hole, NOT a lug nut hole, is flat spotted on two or three places so the hole is no longer round and they cannot get their balance machine to grip it properly. There was no mention of a problem mounting them on the Jeep. This is a first for them in their combined fifteen years of experience.

Their fix is to replace the rims. That was the same answer from Les Schwab, Alton's, Midas and Tire Depot. That exhausts my local shops.

I do most of my own maintenance and watch, whenever possible, when someplace else does anything.

Any thoughts, suggestion or insight as to the solution and more importantly the cause.

XJ4PLAY said:

The center hole, NOT a lug nut hole, is flat spotted on two or three places so the hole is no longer round and they cannot get their balance machine to grip it properly. There was no mention of a problem mounting them on the Jeep.

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When you mount them on the jeep it's the lugnuts that center the rim on the shaft or hub, not the center hole.

Their fix is to replace the rims. That was the same answer from Les Schwab, Alton's, Midas and Tire Depot. That exhausts my local shops.

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What answer are you looking for? The rim sounds "odd" to say the least (or rather defective). Potentially a manufacturing defect that was not noticed till now. You can try bb's, you can try' golf balls in the rims or you can change the rims. My suggestion would be to change the rims as with weird misshaping of the opening hole there might be other issues that were not noticed yet.

Kejtar said:

When you mount them on the jeep it's the lugnuts that center the rim on the shaft or hub, not the center hole.
What answer are you looking for? The rim sounds "odd" to say the least (or rather defective). Potentially a manufacturing defect that was not noticed till now. You can try bb's, you can try' golf balls in the rims or you can change the rims. My suggestion would be to change the rims as with weird misshaping of the opening hole there might be other issues that were not noticed yet.

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Was pretty sure of that. But I remember the rear axle kind of needing to be lined up with the center hole, like there was a lip in the axle. Been a while since I pulled it and remounted it.

I was looking for someone who had a similar issue or a knowledgeable tire shop guy to chime in.

I also wanted to fix the problem and not just address the result.

XJ4PLAY said:

I was looking for someone who had a similar issue or a knowledgeable tire shop guy to chime in.

I also wanted to fix the problem and not just address the result.

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Does it look like the rim is damaged? If it's powdercoated does the powdercoat look crinkly/cracked? Better yet take a closeup pic and post it.

Kejtar said:

Does it look like the rim is damaged? If it's powdercoated does the powdercoat look crinkly/cracked? Better yet take a closeup pic and post it.

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I do not see any other damage .

Not powdercoated, just a plain steel rim.

The photo would not show it well, if at all. I really could not see anything at first. I had to run my hand over the wheel to feel it.

The hub hole does help in centering the wheel on the hub, but the lugnuts play a bigger role. There are tons of styles of lugnuts. Many times, stock lugnuts won't work properly on NON stock rims. The hub hole is the primary way of balancing a wheel unless they have the special tool that goes on the balancer that looks like a hub (does this make sense?). Most places don't have this tool because each pattern costs b/t 600$-1500 per pattern. The place that you bought the tires and rims from SHOULD (i would hope) buy you a new set of rims in exchange since it seems like it is a manufacturing defect. Who makes the wheels?

How long were they on before you noticed the problem? And as imma honky noted, are you using the right lugs? Were they torqued correctly?

Kyung

imma honky said:

The hub hole is the primary way of balancing a wheel unless they have the special tool that goes on the balancer that looks like a hub (does this make sense?). Most places don't have this tool because each pattern costs b/t 600$-1500 per pattern. The place that you bought the tires and rims from SHOULD (i would hope) buy you a new set of rims in exchange since it seems like it is a manufacturing defect. Who makes the wheels?

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They did have the pattern, I think. Looked like studs mounted to a flat circular plate. I saw them, there were 4 people around my tire in amazement and confusion, pull it off the wall.

corbinafly said:

How long were they on before you noticed the problem? And as imma honky noted, are you using the right lugs? Were they torqued correctly?

Kyung

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I have had the same rims since December 2002. When I got the rims I had them supply me with acorn style lugs nuts.

Torqued to 100 ft/lbs.

I had them balanced at this place just over a month ago and they said nothing then. I did see them having a tough time them too, but nothing was said.

Since then I have done the brakes, all hand tools no air tools, had the brakes inspected at a one of the mentioned tire places and had the fluid flushed at another. Nothing noticed by me or either of the other two places, but they just removed and reinstalled them.

Why would they replace them as defective?

Kejtar said:

When you mount them on the jeep it's the lugnuts that center the rim on the shaft or hub, not the center hole.

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This may apply to some aftermarket rims, but the factory Jeep rims are "hub-centric." The center hole locates the rims on the hubs, and the lug nuts just hold 'em in place.

sound to me that the shop can't get a proper balance on the wheel due to the fact that most balancers center to the hub and that imbalance is magnified by the fact the wheel centers to the axle by the lugs. german factory wheels are a perfect example of that problem. time to be shopping for a new wheel or a shop that knows how to use the supplied adaptors for their machines.

Eagle said:

This may apply to some aftermarket rims, but the factory Jeep rims are "hub-centric." The center hole locates the rims on the hubs, and the lug nuts just hold 'em in place.

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Hmm are you sure about that? The factory rims on my XJ definately looked like the type that gets centered using lugnuts and the center opening had some fancy plastic doohickey.

The stock rims are centered by the lugs. You could put on a rim on with a huge center and it would work fine. Slotted wheels (slots for the holes) rely on the center being correct.

I am unsure why the tire outfits are having a problem except that many have trouble balancing large tires.

Ron

I work at discount tire here in Tx (actually, I work for the number one, top rated store in tx...we just did a little over 600K last month, working on 650K for march.) Anyways, a 33 should balance out w/o much fuss. If the barrel of the wheel (the center) is bent, the wheel will never be able to be balanced properly. As far as balancing goes, it shouldnt matter if it is hub or lug centric. You put a cone that fits snugly in the center of the wheel then tighten the big wing nut down and the machine balances the wheel. We usually only use the lug plate adapters if it is a f350/dually type wheel or one of our customers race car wheels....everything else gets a cone.go back to the same discount tire and talk to the manager and tell him you have been to several shops all with similar results. Tell them you want your wheel assembly road forced (this may cost 20-30 but it helps find out if there is a problem with the tire, or the wheel, or both). When you bought your tires (assuming you got em from discount) did you get the certs?(tire warrenty) if so, and the tire is found to be out of round or have some other defect, you can get one for free, or next to free depending on your tread depth/wear of the tire.
If, after road forcing your tire the wheel is damaged and they still suggest replacing the wheels, I'd replace the wheels. Theres really not much you can do to fix a wheel that is bent in the center.
btw, when they balance your wheel, dont stand in side and watch from the fishbowl...go out side and stand by the balancer and watch them, ask questions. Make sure they balance the wheels out to 0/0. Dont let em leave the wheel a .25oz off.(which is acceptable when you arent having wheel/tire issues) Good luck, let us know how it goes.

I HAVE NEVER SEEN A RIM THAT CENTERS ON THE CENTER HOLE THE LUG NUTS ARE TAPERED AND CENTER THE RIM THATS WHY YOU ALTERNATE WHILE TIGHTENING THE LUGS

sjan said:

I HAVE NEVER SEEN A RIM THAT CENTERS ON THE CENTER HOLE THE LUG NUTS ARE TAPERED AND CENTER THE RIM THATS WHY YOU ALTERNATE WHILE TIGHTENING THE LUGS

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And you have prolly never worked in the tire industry. It is all relative to the vehicle/rim/lugnuts.
And maxx, it's good to know someone else out here knows the industry like i do. You just explained it a little better then me.

sjan said:

I HAVE NEVER SEEN A RIM THAT CENTERS ON THE CENTER HOLE

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Never seen formula race car wheels? (unless you count that center piece as one big lug

Kejtar said:

Never seen formula race car wheels? (unless you count that center piece as one big lug

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Not to mention spoked rims.

Kejtar said:

Never seen formula race car wheels? (unless you count that center piece as one big lug

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actually it is the wheel side is tapered to center the wheel

The only wheels that are hub centric are the newer Chevy 6-5.5 pattern. All Jeep wheels are lug centric, steel or alloy. Something that I see alot of is that when tire shops put steel wheels on Jeeps is that the lug studs bottom out in the top of the lug nuts. The alloy wheels were thick enough so you wouldn't have a problem but I have a TJ here in the shop right now that has the same problem with some black soft 8 wheels. The wheels were torqued to spec. by a local tire shop here in Spokane, WA but after a few hundred miles the customer felt it was wobbling, torque was checked and was still good. But because of the above problem, the wheels started to get the lug seats wollowed out and the lugs started sawing into the steel. Just make sure that the lug nut is deep enough to take the wheels studs. About the center of the wheels not being exactly round.... Well I called Unique wheel, they make most of the steel wheels, the tech guy said that the hole is that way to hold the center cap tightly. Steel wheels don't have the provision for a taper to hold the cap like most alloy wheels.