Winch Questions

[96xjeeper]

I have a couple questions. 1: what is the smallest winch you would reccomend for ax XJ? 2: I am looking at the following, Ramsey REP8000, Mile Marker 8000E, Mile Marker 9000E, and warn 8000. All are in the 375-500 $ range, what would be reccomended? What are differences? I am thinking hard between the Ramsey 8000 and the Mile Marker 9000, only about a $80 diference in price, but 1000# rating, would it be wiser to go with the 9000 instead of any of the 8000 perviously mentioned. My XJ has 4" lift, 31x10.50 BFG At's and soon a full assortmant of skid protection, as well as a winch bumper if that all makes a difference. Thanks for the help in adveance

[Bender]

Since a winch is generally your last hope in many cases when you are really stuck or something very bad happens in my opinion it's not worth it to skimp out. Get a good quality unit... and if you are looking used be sure everything works very well.

Research around and compare their specs yourself as you can easily find hundreds of people that will love each winch you listed.

Compare things like Motor type.. series wound is better than permanent magnet.

Motor power.. the more the better.

Length of cable... the longer the better.

Type of fairlead... roller is better than haws. A new roller fairlead is about $65.

# of solenoids.. I know warn uses four and some ramsey and superwinch units only use two. I'm not sure on the Milemarker but the more solenoids the winch has the less chance of burning one up.

Compare line speeds under load and unloaded.


One thing though... for an XJ you don't want anything under an 8000lb winch and it's probably a good idea to get the best you can afford...i.e. generally the more expensive units are better unlesss there is a sale of some sort.

[Rev Den]

Winches....oh boy......next thing ya know it'll be religion, politics, and auto vs stick...

Dont go under 8000 Lbs. Everything else is debatable.

Rev

[dmillion]

I have a 6,000 lbs. winch for my XJ and I think it's the perfect size. The usual recommendation for winch size is total vehicle weight times 1.5. By that calculation a 6,000 lbs. winch is more than enough for a stock XJ and, in fact, I have pulled my XJ out of all kinds of "stuck" with mine.

If you need more power then get a pulley block and now you can pull 12,000 lbs. I have also done that on a couple of occassions when another, larger vehicle was stuck and needed some help.

As far as I can tell, a bigger winch just adds more weight and expense in exchange for one, single benefit--every now and then you can pull yourself out a little tiny bit faster.

[Rev Den]

OK...so even the 8K is debatable.

Rev

[ChuckD]

Check out some of the lesser priced winches only have a 1 or 2 year warenty. The more expensive have a lifetime.

[96xjeeper]

Well ok guys thanks.........and lets see......God is great (religion) I voted for Bush (politics) and I prefer an automatic , I'm lazy, that about covers it, I will compare specs, but i am leaning toward the E9000 from Mile Marker.

[Rev Den]

Just to toss gasoline on the fire.......thought about hydro....I have had one for 3 years.


Rev

[Mike in NJ]

Yeah, this is another one of "those" topics . . .
anyway, just thought I'd jump in as well.

Be careful of the "a pull of 1.5 times the weight of the vehicle" recommendations. That's a good calculation, IF it's on flat, hard ground. And how many times will you be stuck in that kind of a situation?

Add some multipliers to that if you're on an angle, or if the ground is soft, or if your pull is going to be off center. Sound more familiar? There's plenty of geometry and physics associated with stucks, just ask any commercial tow driver to show you their calculation card. A word of caution as well - yes, using a snatch block will "double" your effective pull - but it will also exceed the listed breaking strength of most 5/16 - 3/8 steel cable (approx. 9000 to 11000 lbs!). Not that the line will always fail at those limits, but that's all that it is rated for.

IMHO a 6000# winch is mostly good for ideal situations, 8000# is probably OK for many situations, 9500# would be better. They make bigger winches for light trucks (e.g. #12000), but now you're starting to exceed the carrying capacity of the steel line ( a little fact that none of the major manufacturers talk a lot about).

It's all about trade-offs - weight, capacity, cost. Everyone has to decide for themselves. I know a guy who swears by his ATV winch in "all kinds of situations". For me though, the #8000 seems OK.

Mike in NJ :patriot:

[Rev Den]

If you double the line with a block you are splitting the load between the 2 runs, in essence halving it. If you pull a 10K load with a block you have 5K on each line.

Rev

[Mike in NJ]

Thanks Rev - I always get that part screwed up. The heavier load though is at the block itself and its attachment to the anchor, of course those are generally rated much higher.

Still a tradeoff though, more line out is less wraps on the drum, and less pulling power at the winch itself. (Does everyone know that the winch capacity (i.e. 8000, 9500) is only on the first layer?)


This is SUCH a fun topic! :)

Mike in NJ :patriot:

[Georgia Mike]

DO NOT buy the Ramsey REP 8000 or the early Milemarker E8000. The are the same winch and are as slow as molasses on a cold winter's day(think no-load 15 feet per minute-slow here!)! If I'm not mistaken,the new E8000 is a Warn 8000 re-badged. It would be nice to be able to actually see the winch before you bought it to see what you are actually buying,but never the less,you can't go wrong with a Warn! Just get the 8000# Warn and you'll be happy with it,IMHO.

P.S.-Actually,the fewer wraps there are on the drum,the more pulling power you have *think little-bitty tires VS. big tall tires*

[Beezil]

sorry D, I hafta disagree with the 6000# winch.......

I'd say no less than 8000 lbs.....

6000 lbs is simply too light for what most of us end up doing....

if its works for you, excellent, glad to hear it, but I wouldn't suggest 6000 lb winches....

[4ward]

There's a reason that you see Warn on the front of the more seasoned wheelers. Nuff said????

Sean

[xxxj-va]

Rev :)

[Flowers]

Compare horsepower, line speeds, etc.

Apples to apples, the warn will win............ hands down. The Warn 8000 will be sufficient for your machine. If it's in the budget think about the HS9500i.

Hope this helps

Flowers

[Mike in NJ]

Georgia Mike - thanks for pointing out yet another dyslexic response from me - I did mean to say that the winch loses pulling capacity as the drum wraps increase! The FIRST layer has the rated pulling power, not the TOP layer. :(

And thanks to Beezil for not slapping a SPOBI alert on me!!!

Bad day - tried to jump on this thread just before I headed out for the day and managed to screw up practically every piece of advice I so pretentiously babbled from (supposed) memory.

Forget everything I said (except that I don't think a 6000# model is all that useful - 8000 or more is the ticket!)

I think I'll just crawl back under the rock now........ :rolleyes:

Mike in NJ :patriot:

[Goatman]

They will all work. Some will work better based on strength and line speed. Some will last longer than others. You do get exactly what you pay for in winches. If you only get stuck and use the winch very infrequently, the Ramsey 8000 will get the job done. If you like quality products with good performance, just get the Warn. The price has come way down recently on the 8000lb Warn, it's a good buy.


The 6000 may work OK depending on what's being done with it, but it's hard to recommend. If you got one for next to nothing, use it.

An 8000 lb winch will work very well on an XJ, a 9000lb just gives a little better performance.

A Warn HS9500 is the only thing that Warn makes that I would never recommend.....unloaded line speed is so fast that you can hardly keep it from getting loose wraps on the drum, the drum keeps turning a couple rounds after the switch is released.

Hydraulics?:rolleyes: What's the point? They work real well if you're pulling someone else, but if you need to pull yourself....... :thumbdn:
:D :D

[TOZOVR]

http://www.bb4wa.com/articles/Accessories-winch.htm

[Beezil]

goatload,

how could you NOT recommend an 8274?

agree with hydro.....pulls like crazy.....unless you are trying to steer and winch at the same time!

[96xjeeper]

Well after some reserch this is what I found. Couldn't find horse power on all but these are the numbers I believe, I have no idea of how many selinoids each has.
Mile marker E8000 2 year warrenty, 80lbs, 32FPS up to 4800lb pull, 26FPS at 5500, 20 FPS at 6500 and 14FPS at 8000.

Mile Marker E9000 2 year warrenty, 82lbs, 32FPS up to 5400, 26FPS at 6200, 20FPS at 7300, and 14FPS at 9000

Warn M8000 Lifetime Warrenty74lbs, 42FPS no load, 16FPS at 2200, 11FPS at 4200, 9FPS at 5500, and 8FPS at 8000

Ramsey REP8000 Lifetime Warrenty, 75lbs, 36FPS at no load,15FPS at 2200,12FPS at 4200,8FPS at 5500,5FPS at 8000

The Prices Being Around $399 Mile Marker E8000 w/ regular hause
$449 Mile Marker E9000 w/ roller hause
$589 Warn M8000 w/ roller hause
$399 Ramsey REP8000 w/ roller hause

So with all this to me the Mile Marker E9000 looks almost irresistable. Highest weight rating, fastest line pull (loaded), good looking price
Down Side Heaviest, not an issue for me, slowest no load pull, only 2 year warrenty
So now I'm looking for opinians, I don't think the winch will see enormas use, but may get dunked in muddy water, as the is mud where I am. And Mud may be the prime time I use it. Lets hear it!

[Flowers]

I don't have any experience with the Milemarker, but a few friends have them and they say they're junk.

If it's only going to see occasional use, then the Ramsey would be the "best buy".

I'm still a hardcore WARN man. If you want something that will work when you want it to work, that is the one you want.

Goatman, how can you talk smack about the HS9500? The operator must be smarter than the equipment!

Flowers

[BillR]

Originally posted by Beezil

agree with hydro.....pulls like crazy.....unless you are trying to steer and winch at the same time!

SPOBI alert!
My Milemarker 10,500# works GREAT steering and winching at the same time. It's a non-issue. The valve that transfers fluid and power to the steering pump does what it's designed to do.
This is a common misconception passed on by folks who've never used a Milemarker.
Spanking machine for you!;)

[BillR]

Originally posted by 96xjeeper
So now I'm looking for opinians, I don't think the winch will see enormas use, but may get dunked in muddy water, as the is mud where I am. And Mud may be the prime time I use it. Lets hear it!
If you want a winch that will run all day, even UNDER water, then the Milemarker hydralic series deserves some serious consideration. The install's a piece of cake, and there's no "upgrading" of the battery or alternator. True, it won't run with the engine off, but neither will an electric for very long.:eek:

[Beezil]

This is a common misconception passed on by folks who've never used a Milemarker.

Billyfanny,

I *HAD* the milemarker 10,500 winch!

you'll never catch me speaking like that about a product I haven't had first-hand experience with!

I even had the "steering priority" valve......

sure, I could winch, and then i could steer, but trying to do both at the same time was a nowhere deal......Just about EVERYTIME I uesd that winch, I would have to winch hard WHILE putting on some kind of steering pressure.....a little turn of the wheel, no more winch......

so I said to myself "no more hydro"......

got myself a Warn winch AT COST/TAX FREE when I was involved in a manufacturing project that used one......so the switch for my was easy......

I still have the Milemarker, its in awesome shape, so if any of you guys out there want one, make me an offer. I'll gladly sell it, but I'm not giving it away!

[BillR]

Interesting...:confused:
I've had more than a few instances where I needed to steer and winch at the same time, and it's always worked fine.
I'll take it over melted power cables anytime. (been there, done that!)
In addition, the Milemarker's quieter and MUCH more precise. If you need to pull in just a LITTLE cable for whatever reason, it's easy with the MM. With a 9500i, you bump the switch and you OFTEN get too much, as the motor winds up and then back down. (also experienced that!)
When I got rid of my TJ, I finally ditched the warn and bought the winch I really needed and wanted. Milemarker!

[dmillion]

Well, just to clarify, the 1.5 times vehicle weight recommendation is most certainly *NOT* only applicable on level hard ground. I have had my XJ axle deep in gumbo mud (back when I lived in NC) and pulled it out with no problems with--yes, believe it or not--my 6,000 lbs. winch. Now I live in Colorado and I have pulled the Jeep up and over a rock ledge, again, with the same 6,000 lbs. winch.

Certainly, an 8,000 lbs. winch is not overkill. Just as certainly, they do cost more and weigh more. I suspect that the reason most people recommend an 8,000 lbs. winch is simply because that is what's most common and they have never seen how thoroughly competent a 6,000 lbs. winch can be with an XJ sized vehicle.

[Ghost]

Sean where's your winch?

[Mike in NJ]

Nice thing about standards - there are always exceptions, Don.

Regarding your winching experiences, you're clearly very skilled and/or very lucky.

Sorry, but I don't buy the story that, in the right hands, a 6000 lb winch will do the trick in all sorts of conditions. Of course, neither will an 8000, 9500, or 12000. Besides skill, it's also about probability and margin of error. In safety situations (and using a winch isn't a convenience), more capable is always better.

Maybe it's my bias as a firefighter, and having the right sized piece of apparatus for any job, but a 6000# winch does not provide enough of a comfort zone for safely and regularly recovering a 3500-4000# vehicle under adverse conditions.

Don't believe me? (...and I would certainly understand why - considering my earlier screw-ups in this thread). Just ask any commerical tow truck or recovery operator to show you their handbook of towing principles - the 1.5 factor rapidly increases under any unusual situation.

An 8000# winch (and I too am biased towards Warn) is the minimum I would recommend to any first time XJ buyer.

Mike in NJ :patriot:

[TOZOVR]

I'm actually very surprised I'm not hearing from the electric folks who've smoked their winches..ESPECIALLY you 6k guys. I ran a 6k on the Jeep because it was free...and I always used a snatchblock...but I never had many hard pulls.

you run a 6k winch...or even an 8K on an XJ that weighs in at over 4200# (like mine does...4000 at street weight with no swampers and gear) and you get really stuck, you will need to be very careful you don't smoke that winch.

I like the new Warn Ti that tells you before it smokes;)

[PhatXJ]

So then the Warn M8000 would be a good setup for an XJ then?

[dmillion]

A 6,000 lbs. winch WILL do the trick, Mike, in "all sorts of conditions." I've used mine in all sorts of conditions. What I think you meant to say was that it won't do the trick in EVERY condition and I could certainly agree with that (although I have yet to find myself in one of those conditions).

As you said, no winch--6, 8, 15, however many thousands--is guaranteed to get you out of any and every situation. So, you have to compromise. The question is, what's the right compromise for MOST conditions?

The original question asked was, what's the smallest winch you would recommend for an XJ? For a lot of people the answer appears to be 8,000 lbs. Based on my personal experience, though, I have no hesitation recommending a 6,000 lbs. winch for an XJ. I would not, however, recommend anything smaller.

[Beezil]

dmil, the 8274 has worked for me in what i can now categorize as "ALL situations".....

I don't have pictues, only one-ton as my witness to the winch pull of all winch pulls.

I can't describe it, it was so nuts......

no way in hell a 6000 lb. winch would have done it.......

IMHO, you want a winch that will work in ALL winch pulls reliably....

why have a winch that you can only rely on for mild to moderate winching?

one day you will find yourself in one of those "holy shit" situations, and THATS why you ante up for a winch 8000lbs and above.

it is illogical to say that "whatever will stop a 6000 lb winch will probably stop a 8000 or 10000 pound winch too"......well, that what I think you are saying essentially....if it is, its terribly faulty logic.

[FarmerMatt]

Warn M8000 is whats on the front of mine.

Matt

[PhatXJ]

Originally posted by FarmerMatt
Warn M8000 is whats on the front of mine.

Matt

So that answers my question then.

No.

:D

[Georgia Mike]

Better check into that $399 price for the Ramsey with roller. Most of the time their $399 winches don't come with ANY type of fairlead. BTW,don't you really mean "FPM" instead of "FPS"? Sounds like you're reading off the 8274 or the old-school Belvue's line speeds :laugh:

[4ward]

Ghost, my winch is in transit as we speak, errr type. A 6000 will "get you by" and that's pretty much it. It's great that someone has been lucky enough to not fry theirs doing some hard pulls. I and 99% of the folks on here won't recomend it. Does that tell you something? Most everybody I've seen reply on this thread actually has a winch or has extensive time being hooked to one :rolleyes: An m8000 will do you just fine and you have the warn service and quality backing it up.

Now on to the 9500 debate. I wouldn't recommend it to someone that has little or no experience with a winch. It's dangerously fast if the remote is in the wrong hands. You can stop the 3' of run in by bumping the remote real lightly/ quickly the other direction. The motors can take it, there is no load and you aren't going to shock anything. I love the 9500's, but would (and am) take a 8274 first any day of the week.

[96xjeeper]

Uh Yah I did meen FPM, damn FPS thats a fast winch, don't get your hands cought in that! I may be wrong on the roller on the REP8000 From ramsey, But now I'm considering it over the Milemarker because of the warrenty, and the price. If I am correct though the $399 Ramsey is only 1.5HP as oppose to the 4.5HP thier more expensive winches have. Can I expect the same reliability, I am trying to avoid saving enough to shell out $600 or more but if $400 is buying "crap" i will wait. Anyone have the "cheap" ramsey, for 399 any opinians?

[2xtreme]

All this winch talk and not a single comment about types of gears?? Am I wrong thinking that the Warn 8275 is the only Warn mentioned one that is not a planetary gear set up??

Have you looked at the Ramsey professional (industrial) series??

Michael

[BillR]

Originally posted by OneTonXJ

Now on to the 9500 debate. I wouldn't recommend it to someone that has little or no experience with a winch. It's dangerously fast if the remote is in the wrong hands. You can stop the 3' of run in by bumping the remote real lightly/ quickly the other direction. The motors can take it, there is no load and you aren't going to shock anything.
There may be "workarounds" for the problem, but I personally prefer a winch that's easily controlable and STOPS when you let go of the button.
One of my pulls this past summer was helping out a buddy on a trail with a broken spring hanger on an old CJ. We had to get his rear axle aligned so it could be reattached. I REALLY needed the precice control, as we were moving the axle in inches, not feet. I don't think I'd have attemped that pull with the 9500i that I had previously. I think I sold a few Milemarkers that day. ;)

[Rev Den]

Bill.
I have the 10.5K Milemarker, I also love it, have not suffered the steering/winching issue, and run a synth. cable. Take it from me on this......give it up...this is not a hydro friendly crowd.
Maybe this is cause thier are not enough of them, maybe because it is different, maybe there is something to the steering/winching issue. I also have been able to steer and winch...but I have yet to do what I would call a hard pull, face it, the thing is rated at 10.5K Lbs.....it would take allot for a hard pull on this winch. In the areas and conditions I wheel, straight pulls in mud are more the norm., I don't do rocks.

You like yours...I like mine...we believe in them.

Rev

[BillR]

Originally posted by Rev Den
Bill.
I have the 10.5K Milemarker, I also love it, have not suffered the steering/winching issue, and run a synth. cable. Take it from me on this......give it up...this is not a hydro friendly crowd.
Maybe this is cause thier are not enough of them, maybe because it is different, maybe there is something to the steering/winching issue. I also have been able to steer and winch...but I have yet to do what I would call a hard pull, face it, the thing is rated at 10.5K Lbs.....it would take allot for a hard pull on this winch. In the areas and conditions I wheel, straight pulls in mud are more the norm., I don't do rocks.

You like yours...I like mine...we believe in them.

Rev
Thanks for the advice!:cool:

[Beezil]

Rev, its a good thing you don't do rocks.

[BillR]

Originally posted by Beezil
Rev, its a good thing you don't do rocks.
I do LOTS of rocks here in AZ!:)

[Rev Den]

Originally posted by Beezil
Rev, its a good thing you don't do rocks.

I agree.....otherwise I would be turning my XJ into a rock buggy.


Rev

[dmillion]

"it is illogical to say that "whatever will stop a 6000 lb winch will probably stop a 8000 or 10000 pound winch too".

You're right, Beezil, it WOULD be illogical to say that. That's why I didn't and wouldn't. I still, however, believe that most of the people who think 8,000 lbs. is a "minimum" winch for an XJ are simply ignorant of how much can be done with a 6,000 lbs. winch.

[Beezil]

I can dig it. good debate.

[Mike in NJ]

(Probably shouldn't react at all, but you done went ahead and used the "i" word . . . .)

I really enjoy the lectures given about "ignorance " from folks who delight in pushing the minimums and maximums of various activities.

Yeah, it's a real, fat, boring life here in "standards" land, except when we get to watch the risk takers on MaxTV.

Nope, I don't consider this a good debate. Just a soapbox for the "I can do things beyond what the book says" crowd. This sport is littered with variations (don't need no stinkin' fancy towpoints either, axle tubes are real strong, never broke on me before)

Nobody is saying you can't do it, we're just questioning the wisdom of choosing to go below what the collective experience has been - ignorance nonwithstanding.

Russian Roulette, anyone?

Mike in NJ :patriot:

[dmillion]

I didn't intend to offend anyone by using the word "ignorant." It simply seemed to fit.

I, for instance, am completely ignorant of the situations where an 8,000 lbs. winch would work but a 6,000 lbs. winch wouldn't. I don't doubt that such situations exist, but I've never come across them so I am ignorant. If someone calls me ignorant about this I'll say, "Yep! I sure am."

As Mark Twain once said, "We're all ignorant, just on different subjects."

As for pushing minimums and maximums, the original poster specifically ASKED about the minimum. I answered his question. Others offered different views. Based on the discussion I suspect that he now has a good idea what is a reasonable minimum, as well as what offers a larger margin of safety. I'd call that a very good debate.

[TOZOVR]

http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/Recovery/index.html

Read this.


ALL of it. You 6k folks will learn a bit (NOTE! I used to be a 6K guy and found out the hard way....)

[FatXJ]

For reference the Milemarker Winches have a 2.5hp motor the 210:1 gearing helps keep the speed consistent.

[REDXJ4FUN]

Ok so some people have managed to get by with only a 6k winch and i know a fellow XJer in my local club who has a 5k that has gotten him out of some bad spots but guess what he wants a 8k winch or bigger, why? becauser its the better way to go. I had a x8000i on my xj and it was nice as hell and did what it had to but when it was stollen i decided to go up to the x9000i. I've with most every one hear get at least an 8k winch. now for the whole warn ,ramsey ,milemarker thing I chose warn since i know they last and for the most part wount leave me when i need it the most. I know a few running ramsey and they have had problems with them. I almost got a new 9k MM but ended up with the warn since I am a trail guide for Camp Jeep ans Jeep jambos I wanted to know that it would work no questions asked and form what i've seen in the past there is no question warn is the way to go. Also the M800 doesnt come with a roller fairlead just a hause unless you swet take who you gwtting it from.

[TOZOVR]

Read the BillaVista article.


GREAT piece of work.

[96xjeeper]

WOW I thought this was an easy question i was WRONG. Well since I opened a can of worms thatks for fishing guys. It seems 8000 is the conscenses for size, and it's mixed as for make. I was about set on the MM. But now I may be leaning at the Warn M8000. I have not heard from anyone who has the MM. any opinians? I am leaning now for warn or ramseybecause of the lifetime warrenty. does anyone run the $399 ramsey REP8000? Any opinians?

[Static-XJ]

I'm winchless for now, but when I do plunk down the change it'll be on a hydro. Undecided as to fixed mount or a multi mount style for a hitch so I have front and reverse winching available.

And back on page one or two someone mentioned 5/16 cable possibly not standing up to loads with a snatch block. You can buy 3/8, and I think I've seen 7/16 somewhere. IIRC 3/8 is somewhere around 14,400 test (could be wrong).

[Rev Den]

using a block will split the load.

No worrys.

Rev

[mike86xj]

on the debate between a 6k and a 8k winch,
where the 6 k is running hard the 8k would be going easy.
I personally would rather have a few extra pounds on the jeep and a few less bills in my wallet just for the peace of mind.

and dmillion soon enough you'll be kicking yourself in the ass saying i should have bought a 8k,
after you replace the motor in your 6k and have more into it than it would have initally cost for the 8k that would still be going strong.

I will be running a m12000 soon because i got it cheap, but i wouldnt have settled for anything less than a 8k

Mike

[shizza-my-nizza]

All I can say is don't get a Mile Marker electric. My buddy fried a brand new E1200 in one trail run. It was on a K5 Blazer but still that says to me JUNK. I would look at a Warn or Ramsey. I just got a Warn M8000 because the price was right and you cant beat the Warn reputation.

[dmillion]

"...soon enough you'll be kicking yourself in the ass saying i should have bought a 8k"

Wrong. I've been using this particular 6k winch for 12 years now. Hasn't let me down yet. I'll let you know if it ever does, but I wouldn't recommend that you hold your breath.

[jeo]

Just thought I'd add a story. I have a 98 with 4.5 inches of lift, 33s etc and a Warn X8000i that I picked up used. And I burnt it out. Now, I still love it, and it works great after I fixed it. I should explain. My brother has a 90 GMC fullsize with 4 inches and 33s, and about 350hp. He decided to take the hard line through a mud pit down a local gas line. Needless to say, he was down to the frame very quickly with that weight and horsepower, and then it was all up to me. Obviously, I couldn't just tug him out with the minimal weight of my XJ, so I tied my hitch off to a tree (I know, not the best thing to do), and commenced putting my l'il X8000i to work. It pulled for a long time straight, no stopping (I know, another stupid thing to do, but every time I thought about stopping, he sunk back in...) and I ended up pulling him out just in time for my winch to stop working. Now, this is the interesting part. After cooling down for a while, it started working again and I reeled in my cable and drove home. What finally finished it off is when I got a phone call from my uncle, who was stuck out in a field in the snow...really deep snow (I'm Canadian, btw), and I winched. And winched. Uphill. For a while. Finally pulled him out (did I mention this was a fullsize again?), once again just in time for the winch to stop working. Fortunately, I also tore the cable just as I pulled him out, so I didn't have to worry about running the cable into my window and driving home with an open window in -30C weather. That did it. BUT...all I had to do to that thing was open it up, replace the 2 really badly burnt solenoids that control the reeling in motion (about $100 Cdn.) and a new cable ($50 Cdn.), and it's as good as new. If that story convinces anyone out there to go with Warn, my job is done. Oh, a few side notes...I'm running dual Optima Yellows into the winch, so that helped. Also, replaced the cable and added a heat sink onto the motor side of the winch, which should keep the motor cooler and reduce draw through the solenoids and coil of the motor. Oh, and I regreased the gears and painted the case, just to make it purty... Sorry for my verbosity, just thought this might help sell someone on Warn.