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Belt Squel WTF?

T

tekguy4

NAXJA Forum User
Location
East Lnogmeadow MA
OK, please bare with me. Bought a 88 Cherokee last month, noticed an occasional chirp follwed by a squel, so I got a new belt and idler pulley, replaced belt, pulley and cleaned all the gunk out of the pulleys, problem solved, ran quiet for a few weeks,

Recently started hearing the same chirp followed by the squel (best way to describe) so checked belt tension seemed ok, then I noticed a little end play in the water pump, so I hit the belt with some belt dressing till I could get the pump, anyways a day later and the squel got bad, so today I changed water pump, reassemled, restarted, everthing is nice and relatively quiet, so I run it half hour while I get all air out if system, then I notice same good damn chirp and relatively shortly after, its not squeling now its howling! belt tension seems ok, new pump isnt leaking,

anyways I am having a hell of a time tracking it down, a little water on belt quiets it right down, the AC pump pulley bearings seem fine (very easy to spin) any thoughts out there on how to track this down?
 
tekguy4 said:
any thoughts out there on how to track this down?
Click to expand...

Check the power steering pulley; I've seen a few XJs of the same era where it's making a lot of noise. Never had to replace one myself, but I'd assume it's easier / better to replace the entire unit.

Also, make sure all your pulleys are in line. Have you checked the alternator?
 
Really, really stupid question here - but it bears asking (since I'm going through this myself...)

Has your coolant level dropped? I've had a belt squeal for the last couple days - both of the replaceable idler bearings are new, the aircon compressor is GONE, the power steering pump and water pump are less than a year old, and the alternator is just over a year old (yes, this is my 88.)

What was the problem? I found out yesterday when my thermostat gasket let go the rest of the way - apparently, it had been dripping onto the belt for the last week or so, and the belt would squeal until it dried off (changed that about six months ago.) I'll be changing that gasket to-day, and washing the belt with Simple Green and a stiff brush (to get all the antifreeze crudlies off,) and that should be that.

Bottom line? Check the thermostat housing. Also, check anywhere else that the belt runs near coolant - dripping water on the thing tends to make a fair racket.

5-90 :lecture:
 
You say tension seemed ok....did you actually use the proper tool to get the the proper tension? A friends tension seemed OK too, but belt still squealed at start up or if he put a heavy load on the alt. When we measured the tension, wow, it was way off, brought to spec. and its alright now.
 
What is the proper way to check the tension? I replaced my belt last month and did it by feel.
 
Same thing happened to me, and it ended up being that the Harmonic Balancer went bad and the rubber separated.
 
noise seems to be coming from down low, alternator or harmonic balancer area, its not from the ac pump or power steering pump, the coolant level hasnt dropped and nothing appears to be leaking,

everything appears to be lined up, although the fan pulley looks a little more 'forward, then the rest and I adjusted belt so there is a little more then 1/3 inch of play up and down (between idle pulley and ps pump)

I dont have access to the tool to check belt tension, what would cause more squel, loose or tight?

just a little water poured on belt quiets it right down damn frustrating may go ahead and just change alternator as it appears to be original
thanx
 
Most persons totally underjudge the amount of tension on serpentine belts. Furthermore, serpentine types often need readjustment after a run-in period (1-2 hours).

I would bet your belt is underadjusted. Compounding the problem is the belt dressing, which works on V-type belts, but generally just messes up a multi-groove serpentine belts.

Clean that belt dressing crud off, and retension. If you lack a tensioning guage, a rule of thumb is that you should be able to twist the LONGEST span of the serpentine belt no more than 90 degrees with finger/thumb pressure.
 
I had a belt squeal on my 90. I changed the belt, alternator, water pump, and the idler pulley again. Still had the noise. I replaced the new belt with a different new belt. Problem solved. Coincidence? Or defective belt? I never heard of that before.
 
I HAD THE SAME ISSUE WITH MY 88 XJ IT WAS A HEADACHE replaced the belt twice.. It was the fan pulley an NAXJAer recommeded replacing it. Chrysler changed the design up and i got one from quadratec fixed it and took out an NAXJA membership that day.. this board is great... but I had that exact same headache... look at both your WP and your fan pulleys if they have a lip on them they are the old design you can replace both pulleys very easy very cheap and fixed it for me the new design is curved surface with no lip
 
Just adding my experience here, so take it as you will...

I bought an '89 for parts a few months back. When I started it to load it in the trailer, the belt made horrible noises. Apparently it had been making those noises for a while since the center console had a can of belt dressing in it :(. Once I got the thing torn down and started to store the parts I noticed the alternator pulley was locked. I understnad the Delco style alternator have some bearing issues where they will overheat and sieze (SP).

If the noise is coming from down low, I would check to see if the alternator is spinning smoothely as a potential cause. With the engine off and the belt removed try to move the pulley up/down, left/right to see if there is excessive play. Also check to see the it isn't horribly out of balance when turned. It may be that the alternator shaft is occassionally stopping and restarting due to a failing bearing.

This may be of no use at all, just thought I would relay my experience.

Good luck.
 
krikit tension gauge

Spec: new belt defined as one run LESS than 15 min, 90lbs, used belt defined as one run MORE then 15 min 70lbs.

Most people who do it by the 'feel' or 'twist' method, 35lbs...
 
removed belt, cleaned all pulleys, reinstalled belt and tightened as suggested, still the same only thing that changed was pitch of squel

anyways I am going to get another new belt (this ones a little sticky if that makes sense) and a new water pump pulley since the one there is pitted

the ac pump, alternator and ps all spin freely with no end play, and the new water pump is nice and smooth along with the new idle pulley

only thing I noticed is if I put a little water on water pump pulley it quiets down immedately, any other pulley there is a slight delay before queiting
 
I would agree with GI-John. Get under there and check the condition of your harmonic balancer (aka vibration dampener). When they start to separate, they'll squeal a lot.
 
as far as I can tell the balancer looks fine (but I have nothing to reference against) its tight and does not appear to seperating I will note that from a cold start it takes a couple minutes before squel comes back but once warm its there immediately I am thinkin i unluckily had multple probems that all masked each other bad idle pulley, noisy water pump, etc..

Can belt dressing degrade the belt? the backside of this belt has a little bit of a 'tack' to it, just gonnA Go ahead and replace it and the water pump pulley is worn and pitted, cheap enough to just replace
 
tekguy4 said:
as far as I can tell the balancer looks fine (but I have nothing to reference against) its tight and does not appear to seperating I will note that from a cold start it takes a couple minutes before squel comes back but once warm its there immediately I am thinkin i unluckily had multple probems that all masked each other bad idle pulley, noisy water pump, etc..

Can belt dressing degrade the belt? the backside of this belt has a little bit of a 'tack' to it, just gonnA Go ahead and replace it and the water pump pulley is worn and pitted, cheap enough to just replace
Click to expand...
Thats what belt dressing does, it makes the belt sticky in an effort to stop slipping and quiet a noisy belt. I don't think it degrades the belt, but once it's on it's pretty much impossible to remove. It has been my experience with this stuff that it actually causes more problems than it fixes. The new belt and pulley are a good idea. Make sure you clean all of the pulley's real good before installing the new belt.
 
between the redesigned water pump and fan pulley and a new belt i would put 50 cents on that fixing the squeak
 
Jeep parts department closed, didnt get pulley, did go to auto store and purchased a Goodyear Gatorback belt- the one with the cross groving, anyways removed old belt, cleaned pulleys again, installed the new Gatorback, said a prayer, started truck, ran 5 minutes crossing fingers, and the squel is gone!!!!!!! Went for a 10 mile ride, no squel!!

Anyways the 'new' belt I took off that is now going in the emergency parts bucket was a Polycraft from autozone, not the cheapest one but the one thats a few dollars more. I needed the other parts (water pump and idle pulley) but by saving a few dollars on the belt I caused myself a bunch of frustration. The Gatorback belt is worth the extra $8 bucks!

Everyone thanks for the input!
 
i forgot to mention that i switched to the gator back... well worth the extra $$
 
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