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Seems like the problems we're having as of late are related to hubs, at least my problem. The more I think about it this really can only be caused from the hub housing itself flexing & making the hub / drive flange eat itself. I'm thinking about machining a tube to press on over the hub housing to help stiffen that area so it can't deflect. There's plenty of room between the wheel & hub for a 120 or 180 wall tube to be pressed on & tack welded in place. This now may make the breaking point the stub axle... Thoughts / conserns? The wife nixed my thoughts on swapping out her front end from her Excursion for my 44... :rattle: A $5000 front end just isn't in the cards right now.
matt, i cant remember your setup, but im running a 1ton 60 rear, so i i grabbed myself a big bearing 44 from the junk yard outta a chevy something, and bought the 8 lug hubs and rotors from advance auto, the hubs are MUCH thicker than my 6 lugs were, next time theyre apart ill snap a pic for ya
I was over at my friends discussing this. He didn't have any of the Ford stuff for comparision but it appears to be pretty easy. It may require skimming the surface with a lathe to square it up. We're talking a .001" press fit which should be enough that it won't work it's way off easily and a couple of small plug welds would definately finish it off. You want a fairly tight fit or it can swell a little before the two make good contact.
He felt the same as I did. If that is the problem even .120" would make sure it wasn't anymore.
He still hasn't given me a bill for the last two weekends work so maybe I should wait a few weeks before I show up at the door again.
matt, i cant remember your setup, but im running a 1ton 60 rear, so i i grabbed myself a big bearing 44 from the junk yard outta a chevy something, and bought the 8 lug hubs and rotors from advance auto, the hubs are MUCH thicker than my 6 lugs were, next time theyre apart ill snap a pic for ya
I'm running the furd 5 on 5.5 hubs. I was thinking of going a little tighter press than that Lincoln, .005 & maybe just using some liquid steel to lube the fit & once cured it'll hold it in place. I'll probably switch to drive flanges at the same time...
How tight are Goatman's hub protector things? I'm thinking they are a little looser than what you are considering, but if they are kind of tight, they should have been preventing the hub distortion that you are talking about. As for space between the hub and the rim, if you are using stock rims, they fit snug to the hub. Both my stock aluminum Grand Waggy rims and my set of stock GM steel Ralley rims fit snug to the stock hub. I'm sure they could be opened up with the right equipment...at least the aluminum ones, but stock, they fit snug. Jeff
How tight are Goatman's hub protector things? I'm thinking they are a little looser than what you are considering, but if they are kind of tight, they should have been preventing the hub distortion that you are talking about. As for space between the hub and the rim, if you are using stock rims, they fit snug to the hub. Both my stock aluminum Grand Waggy rims and my set of stock GM steel Ralley rims fit snug to the stock hub. I'm sure they could be opened up with the right equipment...at least the aluminum ones, but stock, they fit snug. Jeff
I've got plenty of room. The hub is around 3.5" OD & I've got about 4" ID on my wheels. Richards hub protectors do nothing to support the actual hub. They're a slide over loose fit.
My hub protectors slide into the rim, and have a gap between them and the hub. I've run them with both steel and alloy rims, and there is plenty of clearance between the rim and the hub.
The GM and AMC 6 lug rotors are MUCH thicker than the Ford jobs. That doesn't help you guys, as you can't re-drill 6 to 5 without some welding of overlapped holes, etc. I've never swelled a hub, even after a bunch of carnage everywhere else.
While I'm not usually an advocate of 30 year old parts, it seems like the genuine Spicer Ford hubs from the late 70's are of much higher quality than the new stuff that you buy at your local parts house. While inexpensive, when you see how they fail, you realize the casting quality/material strength is not very high.
The GM and AMC 6 lug rotors are MUCH thicker than the Ford jobs. That doesn't help you guys, as you can't re-drill 6 to 5 without some welding of overlapped holes, etc. I've never swelled a hub, even after a bunch of carnage everywhere else.
While I'm not usually an advocate of 30 year old parts, it seems like the genuine Spicer Ford hubs from the late 70's are of much higher quality than the new stuff that you buy at your local parts house. While inexpensive, when you see how they fail, you realize the casting quality/material strength is not very high.
Have you had a problem breaking hubs with the thicker housings? It wouldn't make sense to go through this if it's not going to solve the problem. I broke 2 hubs on the drivers side. The first one was deserved. I was doing a dig in reverse in front wheel drive. I kinda expected it, but the second hub let go & that tire was grabing loose dirt... My theory is that the first break weakend the housing & was allowing the housing to distort causing the second break. There is no evidence of swelling with my hub. Now Fishboy's hub ballooned up like MightyMouse at the Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade... I'm not sure who's hub housings they were, but they were pretty gold anodized units. Mine are $40 Napa jobies... His break was deserved as well, but it was impressive that the drive flange let loose rather than his stub.
Have you had a problem breaking hubs with the thicker housings? It wouldn't make sense to go through this if it's not going to solve the problem. I broke 2 hubs on the drivers side. The first one was deserved. I was doing a dig in reverse in front wheel drive. I kinda expected it, but the second hub let go & that tire was grabing loose dirt... My theory is that the first break weakend the housing & was allowing the housing to distort causing the second break. There is no evidence of swelling with my hub. Now Fishboy's hub ballooned up like MightyMouse at the Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade... I'm not sure who's hub housings they were, but they were pretty gold anodized units. Mine are $40 Napa jobies... His break was deserved as well, but it was impressive that the drive flange let loose rather than his stub.
Currently, I'm on a 1.5 hub-a-year schedule. It's pretty easy to tell what the cause of the break was on a hub. If the large diameter drive hub body is stripped/shattered, the wheel hub is likely swelled. these things can be swelled just a bit, and it has a large effect on the torque rating of the hub body, as it moves the load to the top of the engagement teeth. If the hub driver (the part that actually moves when you engage the hub) is cracked/exploded, then you have an over-torque condition. Unfortunately, if you don't catch the break early, it will eat itself pretty quickly, and come out in 1.5 million pieces.
I'm seeing lots of broken 44 parts in my future as well, as I just went from 83-1 to 132-1. Now I can do front digs as well.
Stroker + 132 to 1 + front digs = :explosion:
P.S. Up to now, replacing a hub every few outings was not an issue. Plus, the lifetime warranty made it cheap to do. Running JV all the time will really tax these things, though, and as you know there is really only one thing to do about that.
FarmerMatt said:
Have you had a problem breaking hubs with the thicker housings? It wouldn't make sense to go through this if it's not going to solve the problem. I broke 2 hubs on the drivers side. The first one was deserved. I was doing a dig in reverse in front wheel drive. I kinda expected it, but the second hub let go & that tire was grabing loose dirt... My theory is that the first break weakend the housing & was allowing the housing to distort causing the second break. There is no evidence of swelling with my hub. Now Fishboy's hub ballooned up like MightyMouse at the Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade... I'm not sure who's hub housings they were, but they were pretty gold anodized units. Mine are $40 Napa jobies... His break was deserved as well, but it was impressive that the drive flange let loose rather than his stub.
No, I'm running 44 junk.
I'm still wondering if it could make sense to go to Warn, CJ outers. With the heavy duty Warn hub + 30 spline outers it would be a nice upgrade, but it would be expensive & in the end I'd probably be throwing good money after bad.
I think the Warns are a nice uprade, but it's going to be a marginal increase in strength, unless you can get a super-beef drive flange (Poly Performance?) to take those loads.
I think the Warns are a nice uprade, but it's going to be a marginal increase in strength, unless you can get a super-beef drive flange (Poly Performance?) to take those loads.
The gold hubs are the Canadian brand I mentioned, I think the brand is Amco(?).
The D30 drive flanges are pretty much indestructible, at least according to Garry. He ran them for years, he broke countless CTM's & Warn stubs, but never a drive flange nor a swelled Warn hub.
