Let's talk D30 steering upgrades

[mjma]

So I've read the sticky post about upgrade options on the D30, which was very helpful by the way. I still have a few questions though.

1)Why is the hi-steer with TRE arguable the best option? heims require too much maintenance?

2)What does the PSC gusset thing weld to? The knuckle?

3)I've heard in the past that one can use the tierod from a V8 ZJ and just use that instead of the stock XJ one. Is this a direct swap? Is it a good option? If so, why isn't it on the sticky thread?

I'm on a tight budget and I just realized that my stock tierod is bent. I want to upgrade but Hi-steer may be out of my price range at the moment. It looks like I will have to upgrade other things aswell at the same time, like the tracbar, etc. which add to the cost. I'm looking for a low budget option that will be an upgrade, but not be too hard on the wallet. In the future I hope to avoid bashing my tierod off of rocks by installing one of those stock front skids. I'd love to do hi-steer, but money....

[rock rash]

http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=67834
look at the stickies above!

[mjma]

So I've read the sticky post about upgrade options on the D30, which was very helpful by the way. I still have a few questions though.



I did.

[xjj33p3r]

Just replace the tierod for the moment till you can afford hi-steer.

[94xjkyle]

i ran the v-8 grand tierod and drag link for a while, it was a direct bolt on, it didnt even change my alighnment. the v-8 stuff is way more beef than the stock stuff, i would recomend it.

[mjma]

i ran the v-8 grand tierod and drag link for a while, it was a direct bolt on, it didnt even change my alighnment. the v-8 stuff is way more beef than the stock stuff, i would recomend it.

thanx. do you have to run the v8 draglink too? so it's like the exact same length and uses the same TREs?

p.s. thanx for the locker!

[mjma]

Just replace the tierod for the moment till you can afford hi-steer.

well, since I have to replace it I might aswell spend an extra 10 bux or so to make it a little stronger than it is currently, rather than having to replace it again before I can even afford hi-steer!

[XgeekstarX]

jcroffroad has a really nice looking 1-ton setup i like.

[mjma]

What are the benefits of an inverted T over an inverted Y??? Is hi-steer considered an inverted T or is it in it's own category since as far as I can tell it seems to mean a straight tierod from the top of the knuckle with a drag link from the pitman arm to an even higher point on the knuckle. Am I correct?

I can't afford to go with anything expensive right now but I wouldn't mind getting a little more familiar with all of the + and - of all the options that are out there so I can make a good decision when I have $.

[Kittrell]

What are the benefits of an inverted T over an inverted Y??? Is hi-steer considered an inverted T or is it in it's own category since as far as I can tell it seems to mean a straight tierod from the top of the knuckle with a drag link from the pitman arm to an even higher point on the knuckle. Am I correct?

I can't afford to go with anything expensive right now but I wouldn't mind getting a little more familiar with all of the + and - of all the options that are out there so I can make a good decision when I have $.

High Steer is normally Crossover. But Inverted T High Steer has been done more then once. Though only on d44s with flat top knuckles and high steer arms.

[cwlongshot]

jcroffroad has a really nice looking 1-ton setup i like.


I juat did this upgrade to my traiul Jeep, a '99TJ.
I am VERY impressed with the beef of the pieces. i spoke with my installer this afternoon, he said it came out very nice. It the first one he has seen.

YES, this style is superior to the inverted Y setup, it reduces bump steer. The only issue I had was i was conserned the TRE's on the Tierod would roll a bit producing the "lag" I was trying to avoid. Aparently the older full sized jeeps used thgis style of settring and found a fix for this. Its a factory part, kind of like a couple spacers. they look like washers and they take up the space between the knuckle and the TRE, eliminating the "roll".

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/CWLONGSHOT/Jeep%20pics/The%20TJ/JCR%20Steering/TREI.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/CWLONGSHOT/Jeep%20pics/The%20TJ/JCR%20Steering/TREII.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/CWLONGSHOT/Jeep%20pics/The%20TJ/JCR%20Steering/Driversside.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/CWLONGSHOT/Jeep%20pics/The%20TJ/JCR%20Steering/Passside.jpg

If I could have gotten my hands on a wrecked WJ, i would have just swapped in its setup, but with out a parts vehicle, this is an expensive swap. BUT it gets you a crossover using FACTORY parts!!

If you like I'll post up after I drive it a bit and get to wheel with it on!!

Good luck,
CW

[mjma]

yeah, please do! so is this an option that is more suited to a trail only rig? My XJ is my DD, but I also wheel it pretty hard every other weekend.

[bj-666]

the problem with inverted T or y setup is lift height with y as your suspension goes thru it's motions the toe changes. with stock to small lifts the toe changes very slightly but as you lift higher it makes the effect of the draglink much more prominant on the toe. with a T setup and high lifts as the drag link trys to move side to side it also pushes down and pulles up forcing the tie rod to rotate causing a "dead spot". cross over means that both tierod and drag link bolt directly to the knuckle and do not bolt to one another. this eliminates the "dead spot" and also the toe change problem but with a large lift the operating angle of whatever joint u decide to use becomes large causing binding high misalign heims can be used and sometimes eliminate this problem.

high steer (usually for larger lifts)can be setup using T, Y, or crossover. it just means that the mounting of links is well higher (top of the knuckle), this puts operating angles back closer to stock for all steering systems. full crossover and high steer provide the largest amount of operation angle because the links are longer (usually not a problem). but T can be used to eliminate the use of heims (which some people don't like) and works because the draglink's forces are now pushing/pulling horizontally instead of both horizontal and vertical. with high steer you must relocate the trac bar as well to keep the drag link and tracbar parallel

I am currently at about 6-7" of lift with crossover with misalign shims and no highsteer and my draglink binds if i allow my axle to droop all the way.

my grammer sucks and my spelling is even worse so if ya can't decipher my code word let me know:laugh3:

[RWKHausSupply]

Its a factory part, kind of like a couple spacers. they look like washers and they take up the space between the knuckle and the TRE, eliminating the "roll".CW

Where can I get these spacers? And can you post a picture of them please?? AZlso if you can, post the ID,OD and width?

Thanks

[mjma]

BJ66, thanx for your reply, that is exactly the type of pro/con explanation that I was looking for. Since I'm only at 3" I've never really looked into any hi steer/crossover in any detail. I don't plan on going much higher for a while but I like to know about these things anyways. For now I'd like to make my jeep as solid as I can at ~3", and then go from there.

[bj-666]

if your not looking to do anything "wild" with your steering at this point buy a piece of 1-1/8 x.250 DOM, the length of your tie rod take it to a friendly machinest (cheep) and have him face the ends and thread (left and right hand thread) it then all ya need is jam nuts and you have a beefy tierod(shoot i forget what size the threads are on the stock tie rod ends so the pipe size might differ what i gave you works for 3/4 thread. but you get the idea) it cost me like 30 to have both my tierod and draglink faced/threaded and prob 20-30 for a piece of DOM the size you need.

if ya want ot skip that part i beleive JKS sells a hd tie rod for 90 or so.

[mjma]

But what about attaching the draglink?

[bj-666]

But what about attaching the draglink?
draglink can stay stock its' the tierod that you can kick with your foot and bend. it's all a matter of money and what are the most cost effective ways of spending it to get performance/strength.

[mack]

if you look in the for sale forum, kid4lyf is selling a whole 1ton d30 setup, with knuckles for $250.

[Jeepin Jason]

High Steer is normally Crossover. But Inverted T High Steer has been done more then once. Though only on d44s with flat top knuckles and high steer arms.

You can do it (inverted-T high-steer) on a D30 using WJ knuckles (have to get an export-spec knuckle for the driver's side). That's what the DEO kit is.

http://www.downeastoffroad.com/Highsteer%20Pics/Highsteerlinks/HS3%20.JPG

With any high-steer conversion though, you've got to do a custom trackbar setup to raise it as well. Some kits include parts to do this, some don't.

[Kittrell]

You can do it (inverted-T high-steer) on a D30 using WJ knuckles (have to get an export-spec knuckle for the driver's side). That's what the DEO kit is.

http://www.downeastoffroad.com/Highsteer%20Pics/Highsteerlinks/HS3%20.JPG

With any high-steer conversion though, you've got to do a custom trackbar setup to raise it as well. Some kits include parts to do this, some don't.

Thanks Jason, I forgot about that one...........:thumbup:

[Paul S]

You can do it (inverted-T high-steer) on a D30 using WJ knuckles (have to get an export-spec knuckle for the driver's side). That's what the DEO kit is.

http://www.downeastoffroad.com/Highsteer%20Pics/Highsteerlinks/HS3%20.JPG

With any high-steer conversion though, you've got to do a custom trackbar setup to raise it as well. Some kits include parts to do this, some don't.

Using the upper arms on WJ knuckles for true hi-steer works terrible due to the extreme reverse Ackerman. I ran this way for one trail & then went back to the standard WJ over the knuckle, cross-over setup.
I normally won't give up clearance for anything, but for all the tie rods I bent with my old WJ steering, it was better than running with reverse Ackerman.

Paul

[94xjkyle]

thanx. do you have to run the v8 draglink too? so it's like the exact same length and uses the same TREs?

p.s. thanx for the locker!

you would not have to use the v-8 drag link, but if you dont the stock drag link is your weak link. i bent my stock tierod, so i bent it back and welded some 1" angle on the bottom of it, and the next time out i bent my drag link. thats why i just swaped in the entire V-8 stearing setup. i ran that for a while, and even bashed it on some rocks, and it held up fine.

p.s. thanx for the money!

[cwlongshot]

Robert, Look for your PM!!

Guys,
Here is what I did to cure the problems with my FACTORY TJ (SAME for XJ, MJ) steering. The spacers Roberts asking about are FACTORY Jeep Jseries truck parts. Seems they had a set up VERY simular to the JCR kit.

I ended up with near perfect geometry, to boot!!

Here is some pics:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/CWLONGSHOT/Jeep%20pics/The%20TJ/JCR%20Steering/SteeringDriveside.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/CWLONGSHOT/Jeep%20pics/The%20TJ/JCR%20Steering/Hereitis.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/CWLONGSHOT/Jeep%20pics/The%20TJ/JCR%20Steering/RighttoLeftview.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/CWLONGSHOT/Jeep%20pics/The%20TJ/JCR%20Steering/Lefttorightview.jpg

I haven't driven it much as yet, just got it yesterday and its really a trail rig. I'll drive it to work for a couple days and post up what I find, in a couple days.

I hope this helps!!

CW

[cwlongshot]

Here is a close up od the "spacers"

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/CWLONGSHOT/Jeep%20pics/The%20TJ/JCR%20Steering/TJSpacers.jpg

CW