No Skill...

[Centrevillemx]

Does Any one here think that the reason for build these huge Machines (And not just XJ's but all 4X4's) Is because drivers have no paitence or time to learn to be a good driver? Its gotten so Bad that we have to move rocks to make obstacles harder. Supposedly there was a time in the early 40's to late 50's that most people (If they owned a Jeep) left it completly stock and took it to places like Moab and Rubicon. Completing these trails with stock vehicles(Or Nearly So) is an accomplishment worthy of recognition. The Phrase used to be "If you can't get there in a jeep, You'd Better think twice about going". Today it seems to be "If You can't get there in a Jeep, Pour Endless Amounts of Time and Money to build something that can". Just Food for thought...

[Eagle]

Agreed.

My motto used to be "If I have to lift it to get there, I don't want to go."

However, due to over-exposure to NAXJA type people, my resolve is weakening. When I go to Moab this year my '88 XJ will be sporting either Up Country springs or a (GASP!) budget boost.

Nonetheless, running completely stock except for 30" tires, I managed to surprise/embarrass the heck out of some lifted and modified CJs and YJs on Old Florida Road in Massachusetss last year.

[GSequoia]

In many ways I agree with that as well. Granted, I do have a lifted XJ, three inches so far, but soon to be about 4.5 or 5. But I've always said that finess goes a long way. I've gotten places in 2WD's before that people didn't think I could get to, it's just how you do it that matters.

As for those that are lifting to insane levels. Well, I will agree that some of these people are lifting just to look cool (See www.jeepsunlimited.com), but some of them are skilled drivers who have just gotten beyond the level of their rig.

An XJ can do a lot stock, I personally like it better when people wait awhile before their first lift, myself, I took it out in the dirt for three years before I went up my three inches. I've had the lift on for about two years now and am going up again because I've started going out on the trail with NAXJA people and they are a bad influence! :D

Sequoia

[mbryson]

I keep going to bigger and bigger tires as the obstacles that I once could cross with 32" tires, now swallow the whole Jeep. The 35" that I run now, are feeling small on obstacles like 'Rocker Knocker' (good example, IMHO) in Pritchett in Moab. I first ran that canyon as a passenger with 31" Thornbirds, first drove it with 32" MT/R's and then 33" SSR's and recently 35" MT/R's. 35"'s are getting pretty small as that's gotten more and more eroded. (still the same line will get you up every time, though)


I'd have to say, I liked the 33" tires the best for the XJ chassis.

[FarmerMatt]

Well a lot of us have been "doing" this for many years. Myself, I've been wheeling for 15 years. Driving & camping is one aspect of the sport that most people grab on to & is the meat of the sport, but there is another side to it. What’s pushing the sport into further extremes is the custom fabrication hobby that has been evolving. Use to be you bought a Jeep, bought a rancho lift, put some bigger tires on, & go wheeling. The jeep handled like crap on the road, beat you to death on the trail & you loved every minute of it. For a lot of people this just isn't good enough anymore & off the shelf lifts can't or won't satisfy our creative needs even though it way take your rig to the same place a custom lift would. The point is that there is a natural evolution to everything. Wasn't windows 3.1 good enough to run the programs you needed? What operating system do you run on your computer now? Everything evolves & the backyard fabricator aspect of this sport is exploding at the moment.

Matt

[Tucker]

Hear, hear! When I first joined this group I was apprehensive about this topic. I only mod my rig to get where I need to go...

I understand the rock crawling urge and this group *has* been a bad influence :) . I am installing more stuff on my rig than I need, thanks to you guys p~~~~.

That wasn't a complaint, mind. The info, comraderie, support, and wheeling fun to be had here are well worth a few extra parts.

[4ward]

Blah, blah, blah, blah.

If you don't want to build it- don't.
If you do want to build it- have at it.

I don't think your skill arguement has much of a backing. There aren't a whole lot of folks out there that just jump in and dump $10,000 into modifications right off.

One thing that needs to be taken into consideration also- Modifications increase your rigs ability. This in turn increases your confidence in your rig(if you're doing it right), which increases your ability and skill level.

Sean

[Woody at work]

I agree, sort of... Top-shelf/bux-up equipment can make a greenhorn look really good (until they break or flop it due to inexperience/overconfidence)

I have built my present XJ on a very tight budget (thanks to some NAXJA members for some great deals on hand-me-down parts) and as it sits, it is pretty capable of the trails we have down here... OTOH before the latest buildup, I was running with 2 open diffs and a (very) part time t-case on a 'mild' lift. I had to flog it a lot harder than I liked to, but usually got on through the obstacle w/o taking cable or strap. Same went for this year's Crawl, I hit Guardrail with 3 bald tires and a double-shot of YeeHah! (and made it LOL) but w/o the confidence I have in my Jeep I'd have never dared try that one.

I really don't care if folks like to wheel with mildly-built rigs, as long as they know their limitations as far as trail levels go. (It's OK to strech limits though, thats how experience / confidence is gained.)

[mbryson]

In all sports I've been involved in, the 'haves' will always jump in with their money and resources and build some nice stuff, try to outdo the old schoolers, get tired of trying to buy their happiness and move on to something else. The 'havenots' {or 'purists'} will pick up the pieces of the 'haves' and use thier resources to make their machines better.

It's starting to happen around here anyway. Some of the 'haves' that I used to race with have given up their Jeeps and moved on to boats or back to race cars as the 'Jeeping' thing never really caught them.

[Mike in NJ]

One Ton wrote:

"blah, blah, etc."

Blah, blah, blah right back at ya, buddy!

$10,000 - no. But there are plenty of guys that dump a $1000 or two w/o the first thought of how to use throttle, steering, and spotter correctly. Check out how many talk about how high and what lockers before they even give any consideration to armor for instance. Or tire tread type. Or for recovery/safety gear.

Loved my stock trucks - took me where I wanted to go in the "outback" for years - could drive 2000 miles in comfort and just dump off into the woods. Yeah, then I got bit too - as Eagle would say - "went to the Darkside" and am now sporting a whopping 4.5" on 32's (yee-hah).

I'd like to think I'm a better driver now, but I can't help thinking about how successful I was on Moab trails for the first time with 235's, 3.07's and a Trash-Lok. (full set of skids though) Nice thing about our rigs (which we all know) is that it's a blast to drive in ANY configuration.

Not totally disagreeing with you Sean, but I do think that experience and skills development has taken a backseat these days. And, Matt has a very good point, the "technical" aspect of this sport is an end in its own right these days.

Mike in NJ :patriot:

[Kejtar]

I think there is couple things that show up that might give the builds a bad name:
1. The build for show, but unsafe
2. Build but drive with no skill.....

Personally I'm kind of in the middle of the road on that one... Originally my approach was minimalist, but now I really bit the bug. I don't know if I will ever make a tank out of my XJ (44" tires and such lol). Now I'm growing and growing (slowly) and I think that growth has to be earned/required in a way. What I'm trying to say is that a newbie who comes in to the hobby with a virgin XJ and from the getgo puts on taller gears, 33" tires, 4.5" of lift, lockers front and rear will most likely not learn much and very quickly he will need/want 35's 37's and so on. On the other hand those that start with stockers and wheel those, then go to the BB or a small 3" lift with 31's and then regear then once they reach the 33" 4.5" lift and front and rear lockers, they will be able to go waaaaaaaaaay further on that then the other guy will ever be able to... So I guess building is good, but you have to grow to it or grow with it.....

Kejtar

[Centrevillemx]

Well Said Mike,

As we Say in Motocross "The Rider Makes the Bike Not he Other way around"

But being able to rely on your machine is good to : "Racing is 98% Rider and 2% Bike, BETTER MAKE THAT 2% COUNT!"

[4ward]

Blah, blah, blah.

I love it when this topic comes up every 6 months, nobody is ever right and we get to argue about something that doesn't really matter anyway. God, I love the internet.

[Mike in NJ]

Speak for yourself you leftist agitator!

Some of us are always right (ask Eagle).

:D

Mike in NJ :patriot:

[4ward]

Mike, I expected a much better response out of you than that.

Piss and moan all you want about folks building, not building, blah, blah.

Where's your "real jeep", did you buy it or build it. Does it really matter as long as you're out there using it for whatever you intended it for? I love wheelin' with all levels of drivers and all levels of vehicles.

80% of the time I'm out there trying to push people to their limits and 90% of the time I'm helping them fix it from that previous 80%.

It's all fun to me. Especially when I get to argue with the NJ kid.

Sean

[Eagle]

Okay, MIke, I admit it ... you're always right.

(Except when you're not :) )

[Kejtar]

OneTon... but what about teh 12" lift on 10" chrome blocks with stock axles, stock gears and 37's? Is that a good example of building?

[Mike in NJ]

Eagle sir, how could I possibly be as right as the poster of 1618 (at last count) replies????

And 2000LB - we're not arguing - we're just boosting OUR reply totals. (Sorry if my witicisms aren't cutting it today :( - try poking that guy in Chick-kago, he's always good for a one-liner).

Mike in NJ :patriot:

[4ward]

Remi, whos ass did you pull that one out of. I didn't realize we were turning this into a building skill thread also.

Yeah, I'll go wheelin' with that person. He'll know ahead of time that I'm not going to be helping him when he breaks. We all have to learn somehow. I remember when I first started wheeling and that was the only way to get a chevy up in the air. We had a grand ol' time at it and I never died. We sure learned a lot, BECAUSE WE WERE OUT THERE USING OUR VEHICLES AND COMING BACK AND MAKING THEM BETTER . We weren't sitting somewhere crying about our inablity to not make something, we got out the equipment and made it work.

Woo hoo, it's gettin' fun now.

[Kejtar]

hahaha OneTon :D I kind of came about cause think that this is a more complicated topic then build/not build that's why I brought that up :D. In my opinion one has to grow with the rig and what you're saying supports it (BECAUSE WE WERE OUT THERE USING OUR VEHICLES AND COMING BACK AND MAKING THEM BETTER). This way as people grow with it they understand it better and they can make a design/mod that better suits them instead of basing everything on the opinion of others.

In any case, the way I understand the original post is that people go out, and spend $$ and build huge machines (some of the crazy trucks I've seen here in SoCal or even that tank of a GC on ebay) and they go out wheeling (maybe) but since they lack the skill to put it all to use. Look at it this way: kids start first by rolling around :D Then by experimenting they start to crawl and next thing you know they crawl in both directions and the they start walking and finally running. I think same parallel applies to wheeling, except here the learning goes hand in hand with building :D
Kejtar
P.S. It's Friday, it's 2pm and somehow I have a feeling that I'm not making much sense to others, but at least it makes sense to me (for now LOL)

[2offroad]

just building my post #s. LOL i think a "built" Jeep can go farther and do less damage to the trail because you can go slow and easy without having to dig your way thru.

[Jump This]

I think Kejtar is just picking on me!!! Some have resourses and experience some just have resourses!!! :D

[Kejtar]

:angel: lol..... I'm claiming the 5th :angel:

[Woody at work]

"but what about teh 12" lift on 10" chrome blocks with stock axles, stock gears and 37's? Is that a good example of building?"

No it isn't and anyone with a few brain cells left firing can tell that...

Luckily here at NAXJA we have pplenty of good folks who would (attempt to) dissuade anyone from that route, and at the few club events I have been to, we don't see any examples of that either...well at the SEC Truck Show we did have a couple pooper-duty's that were pretty far out there into the 'bling' zone., but I doubt they saw any off-pavement use.

Point is all the 'experience' in the world wont help your ass if your stock rig on mall tires & one-wheel-wonder axles is high centered on a pile of gopher crap and you are 10 feet too far from the nearest pull point to self-extricate.

I admre and love to watch good drivers wheel mildly built rigs... OTOH it's more fun for me to get into some nasty trails/any weather/disregard for carnage and have at it.

Folks can woof all that 'such a capable rig in stock form' stuff they care to...you won't see many of them in my rearview on the 'fun' trails down here...better have mud-grips and armor (at least) and not be afraid to trade some paint.

Before anyone cries 'Trailer Queen'...my junk has always been driven to & from the trails. That may change someday, but for now, it's a locked up, 6" on 33" daily driver that gets 17 MPG and a quart of 10W40 every week.

[Woody at work]

"Some have resourses and experience some just have resourses!!!"

Experience and mechanical ability (and tools) is a resource too.

If I could 'buy' my next rig, and never turn a wrench again in my life...trust me Grasshopper, I would in a heartbeat. I'd call AAA to air me back up after the trailride and have my 'escorts' keep fresh cold ones handy as the driver toted me around :D

Some folks get off on the maintenance/building/fab aspect...I used to like it, but hate it anymore; Being a po boy with a bundle of tools leaves me no other options but to DIY.

Woody
NAXJA President

[Jump This]

I just don't think I would like it as much if I just bought my rig......I would like the time I spent off-road just as much but I spend a lot of my hobby time building my toys. My job can be stressful (whose isn't?) and there are days that the only way I can get through it is thinking about the work to do in the garage when I get home. When I have done all the basics of any build up I sometimes need other things to do. This leads to making my toys better and better. Not always nesc. but heck...its often cheaper than starting an entire new project. You can see where this can lead. My wife likes to note that when my job gets rough my garage gets busy! Maybe this is just another reason that rigs get better and better......

[Kejtar]

hahahaha... Woody, I can just picture you calling for AAA in a middle of Rubicon LOL.

Anyways, it might be a personal approach and view, but I think that when I started if I had from the getgo 6" of lift and 33's I'd be in trouble :D. I first had an 86 2.8 V6 which I took stock (with a helper spring in the rear and 235's) all over Mojave and Death Valley. There was one trail that I remember (actually an old abandoned mining road, on which I believe I shouldn't have been in the first place) that had me thinking that I should roll down my window a bit further to support my rig from rolling on it's side :D. In any case, then I had my 98 with the upcounty which I still took stock (on 225's that came with it) quite a few places. Of course none of them compared to Holocomb Creek, John Bull or Dishpan Springs, but they gave me an understanding of certain concepts. With time as I grew (first AAL, now a replaced pack and SYE) I grow more and more appreciation towards my XJ and I don't think I'd ever give it to a mechanic if it wasn't for the fact that certain jobs will be too big for me :(. ANyways, I don't think that what I'm saying is for people not to build, but not to get too much too fast. I can also understand someone wanting to buy a built rig (oh... if I only had $$ and OneTon was selling LOL) but I think that privelage of buying a built rig should go to someone who has seen his wheels through a growing period....

Kejtar

[Eagle]

In some ways and at some times I think it might be nice to just pay someone else to wrench my fleet. Then I remember that on those occasions when I have paid someone else to do it (for whatever raison du jour), I've generally been less than satisfied with the result, and in a couple of cases my life has been endangered by said "work."

Hence, even though I am getting too old to crawl around on cold ground or concrete, and my knuckles are feeling the onset of arthritis, I still feel more secure doing my own work. I ain't the fastest wrench in the world -- in fact, I generally prefer using hand tools to power tools for some obscure reason -- but I trust my own work more than I trust anyone else's.

I think if I had more "resourses" I'd probably use 'em to buy more & better tools rather than hiring out the work.

[Ted Z]

Because I enjoy it. Nuf Said.

[Scott Mac.]

I agree with you to a point.

When I first bought my XJ, I stuck 30" tires on it and wheeled it for a few years till I was capable of driving any place that the Jeep could go, then I put lsd's in both ends and drove again every place that it could go and continued building it and then driving it every place that it could go. Now I'm at the point that I'm going to break stock axles before a drive it every place that it can go.

The point I'm trying to make is maintain your experience level equal to or one step above your vehicles capabilities.

[JnJ]

Originally posted by Scott Mac.
I agree with you to a point.

When I first bought my XJ, I stuck 30" tires on it and wheeled it for a few years till I was capable of driving any place that the Jeep could go, then I put lsd's in both ends and drove again every place that it could go and continued building it and then driving it every place that it could go. Now I'm at the point that I'm going to break stock axles before a drive it every place that it can go.

The point I'm trying to make is maintain your experience level equal to or one step above your vehicles capabilities.

Dang Scotty, that was pretty good for a Yank. :) I agree completely.

[Ted Z]

I agree scott, thats about the same way i've always approached it......

[Safari Ary]

Well damn, I think Scott pretty much summed it up, I agree too That's it, 3 people agree in a row, this thread is finished :D

[Centrevillemx]

One Ton, You Remind Me of Bill O'reilly in a room full of Democrats Liberals; Your the only one who thinks your way and no one else cares about your Opinions!

[Centrevillemx]

Scott, What you said ties into most Motorsports. You'll ride the Trail Bike on the motocross track til you come home with ruptured fork seals theen you know you've reached the limit and go out and buy a motocross bike. WELL SAID!

[Georgia Mike]

"I admre and love to watch good drivers wheel mildly built rigs... OTOH it's more fun for me to get into some nasty trails/any weather/disregard for carnage and have at it."

I can think of two folks that sentence reminded me of--Dale (RoXJeeper) and of course,Woody

:D :D

[woody]

There is a good exchange of ideas going on here among the boils of opinion. Bandwith is cheap... let's keep it up.

Besides :jester: I likes funnin with all these 'little Jeep' people.

I dunno...not saying that the experience gained by going in increments is 'BAD' (driving skills, upgrade parts selection & installing knowledge) and it does feed the used parts market here and on other boards :) and I surely won't say that folks in mild rigs aren't having fun...or folks like Rich and others who are building (or built) a street performance Jeep... We are lucky to have such versatile and adaptable rigs as our vehicle of favor.

I might be jaded, but I bought my MJ with 33" on there (mild lift, open/3.07) then within the 1st 6 months did a SOA, +4.5" lift 4.56:1, spool & LS front. I wasn't new to off-roading though...just new to that rig, and I did what I felt it needed to get where I wanted to travel. It was my DD then as well.

Mark makes a good point that IF PROPERLY OPERATED, a more built up Jeep may tread more lightly than a mild one that has to work harder for the same trail progress.

I think when my 9 yo grandbaby gets tall enough to safely operate a vehicle, she will learn how to wheel in my 'mildly built up' 89XJ. No sense putting a newbie in inferior equipment ;) or a rig that can't Right now she is 'mature' enough (moreso than her momma and 15 yo aunt combined)...just not tall enough IMHO. The learning skills are the same (taken from step zero) so why handicap a new Jeeper?

The most important thing to me about Jeeping is the "having fun" part. That aspect is a purely individual thing that varies among the community, and it requires an open mind and patience to even begin to communicate it to others.

Having fun yet?

[woody]

Originally posted by Georgia Mike
I can think of two folks that sentence reminded me of--Dale (RoXJeeper) and of course,Woody

:D :D

I am not a good driver... I have cashed in a lifetime's worth of lucky moments is all... :dunno: but ya don't want to be around when my lucky streak zero's out.

Dale, Kevin, & Michelle from this year's Crawl and Mark (2offroad) come to mind as skillful drivers in capable rigs.

[Goatman]

Damn, sure is a lot of BS flinging on this thread. ;)

You can't really disagree with anyone's point here, just a couple of different angles on the same subject. I also think much of the buildup stuff is another aspect of recreation. Some of us like to think things up and build them, it's fun just like the wheeling is.

I also hope no one thinks that they have to build up to fit in, because that's not true. The fun of wheeling is the scenery and the challenge, and wheeling a stock or slightly modified vehicle can be more fun and challenging than putting easily along in a modified rig.

Part of building (and spending) is for reliability as well as performance. There have been comments made about building too fast and not getting enough driver experience, which can be a good point. I think more in terms of increasing the capabilty of a rig without increasing it's reliabilty......not a good thing in my view. Since we can have fun at any level, I don't go for the big tires and big lifts when everything else is still stock, like axles and steering. I say keep the build up balanced, increase capabilty and reliability at the same time, and driver experience will also go with it.

Wheeling is fun......breaking down isn't, even though we accept a certain amount of breakage as just a part of the sport.

[Bent]

Originally posted by Goatman




I also hope no one thinks that they have to build up to fit in, because that's not true. The fun of wheeling is the scenery and the challenge, and wheeling a stock or slightly modified vehicle can be more fun and challenging than putting easily along in a modified rig.




Well said,
Last week on Deep Creek/Holcomb Creek there was a gal in a stock rig about 6 XJ's ahead of me. There were also very modified XJ's (dual lockers, V-8, etc.)as well. Not once while climbing through the tougher sections did I think about how the built rigs had managed to get through ahead of me. A stock XJ with some belly protection, even with open diffs, can suprise the snot out of you. :D

[Jump This]

I will always be held in awe of the abilities of the XJ. From bone stock to wildly modified. I just wonder what my limits are..and how quickly :D I will reach them!!!

[Bent]

Limits are best pursued while in the presence of others. A 20 mile hike back to civilization is not the worse that can happen. With that aside, it is much more fun to laugh at oneself when not laughing alone.

[4ward]

So, do you guys think my Dad should be relegated to driving a stock XJ when he has the opportunity to drive mine? I let him behind the wheel whenever he wants and sometimes force him there. He's never driven off road before in his life. I guess we should send him to the crapper cuz he got into the sport in a fairly modified vehicle.

There ya go, fling more poo.

Sean

[Kejtar]

LOL... ok, now you're entering a whole differnt realm :D Here you're talking about having someone drive your XJ under your instructions :D. What we were talking originally (or so I though) is a first time off roader going out and buying a rig like yours (for example) or having someone build one like that for him, or him putting together one like that and then hitting trails. A big rig, might give one a feeling of "capbility" which he doesn't have due to the lack of practice.....

Kejtar

[Goatman]

Originally posted by OneTonXJ
So, do you guys think my Dad should be relegated to driving a stock XJ when he has the opportunity to drive mine? I let him behind the wheel whenever he wants and sometimes force him there. He's never driven off road before in his life. I guess we should send him to the crapper cuz he got into the sport in a fairly modified vehicle.

There ya go, fling more poo.

Sean

You can't bring Dad's into this, they're in their own league. :D

I'm not into the gradual build up's are better thing, many times that just wastes money because you buy things to replace what you previously bought. I just think the reliability as well as the capabilty should be considered in the build up.

Since the TJ came out, we have seen more people on the trails that can't drive worth a damn, who took their rig over to a 4x4 shop and paid to have a nice rig built for them. Even though we have to put up with their inexperience, they have as much right to be there as we do.......even if we do laugh a little behind their backs while they're learning. :)

[Jump This]

Laugh with them...let them know it only gets better. If you give them a good natured ribbing and they recieve it well...they could end up being just the kind of off-roader we all enjoy being around. But if they get all self absorbed and ignore any help...then its best they don't feel comfortable being with us anyway!!!

[Beezil]

this thread blows.

[Jump This]

:moon:

[FarmerMatt]

So do you I hear.

[Flowers]

Build it. Wheel it. 'Nuff said!

Flowers

[Ted Z]

Holy Crap..... I haven't read this stupid thread i like a week, i can't believe its still going......


the degenereation of the club is depressing....

[Jes]

TTT for you Ted! :D

[Crunch]

Funny thing is, this thread is relevant to a similar subject not too long ago.

A guy (ooops) has been talking about bringing an XJ to an event. He is gonna have 8" plus lift with 35s and hasn't so much as been on a dirt road before. It didn't blow so bad when everyone expressed concern for this guy's well being for having such a big rig and zero 'sperience.

The guy I think took it totally wrong and I haven't seen his name around the forums since.

By the way, I agree fully with all advice given to this guy, but he took it as criticism, not as the well wishing it was meant to be.

Just can't remember this guy's name, hmmmmm :confused:

Crunch

[Scott Mac.]

That "Guy" has been around NAXJA and preNAXJA froums for more years than 99.9% of the people here today. And has taken much more crap than that over they way he designed/still building (?) his first XJ.

I don't think he's offended.

[4ward]

Crunch, thanks- somebody had to say it.

[Jump This]

Isn't that what I said....can these people take the advice/critisism/ of well intentioned people? I know
there are certain people like OneTon, Eagle,EXtremeXJ to
name just a few that have been there and done that.
If I should show up to a get together of other XJ owners
and ignored advice...I don't care if I had a bone stocker or
a super-modified....If I didn't care about well intentioned
intervention....I wouldn't belong...I think thats plain and simple....

[Centrevillemx]

I think this is one of the mostr highly read, replied threads on here were going on five pages......

[4ward]

Centre, pat yourself on the back some other time. We've had much longer discussions about much dumber subjects than this.

Don't lump Eagle in with us, he called my hunk a pile of pipes. We all know pipe is for smoking crack, tube is for cages.

[Centrevillemx]

What you said makes no sense to me whatsoever.....

[Goatman]

Originally posted by Centrevillemx
What you said makes no sense to me whatsoever.....

Now that's one of the most insightful comments I've read in a long time. :D

Centre....... :thumbup:

:D :D

[GSequoia]

Originally posted by Centrevillemx
What you said makes no sense to me whatsoever.....

Centre, meet OneTon, get used to it

:D

[Crunch]

It made total sense to me.

Old subject, not a lot of fun.....just ask Beezil :D

Pipes are for plumbing not protection.

[woody]

LMAO he makes sense to me... OTOH we may just be two mutant peas in a pod of XJ conformists.

BTW you want to try to decipher someone...do a search on Stoney from Sierra Chapter. Somehow I get the mental picture of the school bus driver on The Simpsons, but he's probably some buttoned-down, (pocket-protector & all) engineer type in 'real life'

Don't sweat it, it's just the internet...

[Kejtar]

you know what scares me even more.... now that I looked at it again... it made sense to me :D But I'm sitting in the confort of my home, tired from sanding 500 sq ft of oak floor (preparing it for varnish) and I'm drinking a beer :D so I guess it must be a combination of the above that put my mind in a semi tranquil state which allowed the synapses to fire better LOL

Kejtar

[Jes]

Originally posted by woody

BTW you want to try to decipher someone...do a search on Stoney from Sierra Chapter. Somehow I get the mental picture of the school bus driver on The Simpsons, but he's probably some buttoned-down, (pocket-protector & all) engineer type in 'real life'



LOL, too funny! :D

Jes

[4ward]

I've been in a antagonistic mood for quite a few weeks for some reason or another. As Mike puts it, I'm being a "leftist agitator". Don't mean to offend anyone, confusion is good though.

[Beezil]

Maybe it cause all you threads get trashed......

truce?

[4ward]

Truce?????

Doesn't sound like city style to me.

[FarmerMatt]

Actually Woody your description of the school bus driver is pretty close minus the hair.

Matt

[Beezil]

here's the truce.....

I won't trash you threads, you don't trash mine.....

we'll both double up on flowers.

[4ward]

:smootch:

Done deal, better watch out Tim.

[yuppiexj]

I want those 15 minutes of my life back...

[Bent]

So it's back to the original direction of this thread then. Yes, there is strong evidence to support the claims of those who belive that 14 ft. long green flying lizards can affect the migratory paths of red headed yellow billed threadnappers. According to one published report .......

:cool:

[Kejtar]

so that's what it's all about :D Somehow I figured there was something about giant toads in here LOL

Kejtar

[Flowers]

Originally posted by Beezil
[we'll both double up on flowers. [/B]

Ummmmm.......what are you guys going to do to me? Do I have to shave my............................

Jojo says I can't be friends with you guys anymore.

[Beezil]

not a loss........

[Kejtar]

Originally posted by Flowers
Jojo says I can't be friends with you guys anymore.

Jojo???? who's Jojo?

[Beezil]

his boss.

[Flowers]

Jojo is the zookeeper at the Wildflower Ranch.

[Rev Den]

I see that a cool head is needed here.....6 pages???

FACT: It is wrong and unsafe to modify any vehicle for any reason beyond the design limits.

Rev

[Kejtar]

cool head????? it must be cool from the icepack that you applied to it when you hit it underneath your jeep while wrenching on it and putting in unsafe mods :D

hahahha
Kejtar

[Rev Den]

Nope.....cool from running 55 with no top.......then it rained.

Rev

[Jump This]

Did someone say rain!!?? We just got our first rain in months here! You can see everyone breaking out there jeeps and making the phone calls to line up a run for tonight!! Of course we only run bone stock rigs out here...wouldn't want to jepardize are safty now would we???

[Jes]

http://www.free-funny-pictures.com/pictures/animals/bigcat.jpg

[Bent]

Holding a beer bottle without opposable thumbs is a danger to oneself and to OTHERS!!

[Jump This]

It doesn't look like its a beer hes holding!!

[Bent]

Yea, I guess thats outbound. :eek:

[2offroad]

yes Woody i want to be there when your luck runs out, don't think it will happen soon.

[yuppiexj]

btt...

[XJ_ranger]

well, to protect all thoes young guys with little experence out there and represent them, id have to say that getting a lift (3.5") for me becomes a necesity to keep up with my friend with the 85 4 runner with 35's locked front/rear, 5.88 gears, dual t-cases, hi-steer ...
He bought this truck from a builder and never turned a wrench on it. he rolled it (it has an exo) and then learned how to drive in my XJ, then drove his rig through stuff that he couldnt before and began fixing his show truck and making it a real off roader [re did suspention, added skids, bought a spare tire, and added tow points]

anyway, id have to say to anyone new, start stock, drive and have fun.

All of my friends who had a stock vehicle and wheeled it then upgraded slowly, spent 5000 (over a period of years), tell me that they had just as much fun stock, only it was less expensive breakage that occured.
i.e. when stock, a friend banged up his oil pan real bad (TJ) and replaced it before it was terrible, then added armor [learning]
then after his 6" total lift and 35's he snaped his rear d-shaft u-joint and axle shaft (D44) while crawling...
new oil pan = 50? IIRC
axle shaft, u-joint, headache of pulling yourself to the road then driving 20 hours home in 4high with a trans leaking atf all the way = priceless

i dono, i started stock (with factory off road package THANK GOD!) and got oil pan skid, t-case skid and rear reciever as first mods. Then CB and 235/75 BFG all-terrains

had a ton of fun on that setup.

more mods doesnt equal more fun...

[JeepFreak21]

Does Any one here think that the reason for build these huge Machines (And not just XJ's but all 4X4's) Is because drivers have no paitence or time to learn to be a good driver? Its gotten so Bad that we have to move rocks to make obstacles harder. Supposedly there was a time in the early 40's to late 50's that most people (If they owned a Jeep) left it completly stock and took it to places like Moab and Rubicon. Completing these trails with stock vehicles(Or Nearly So) is an accomplishment worthy of recognition. The Phrase used to be "If you can't get there in a jeep, You'd Better think twice about going". Today it seems to be "If You can't get there in a Jeep, Pour Endless Amounts of Time and Money to build something that can". Just Food for thought...


I'd have to agree, except the reason I've built my rig the way I have is to try to sharpen my fabrication skills (at the mercy of my driving skills :gag: )
Billy

[BoostyKid]

i have seen near stock xjs do way more than i can do.... why? because im 17 and cant drive. but i still think that there are going to always be things that i can do with a 6 inch lift and 33's over a budget boost.

[CW]

this thread is two years old.http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/10/10_1_19.gif

[Goatman]

this thread is two years old.http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/10/10_1_19.gif

Yeah..........how in the world did this thread get dug up again?



:yap: :yap: :yap:

[Darky]

someone back in may btt'd it, then it got re found last night...I must say tho you do learn a lot about how to drive wheeling a stock vehicle. With my Tracker I learned a lot about tire placement, throttle (more of it), and line choice. Now in my XJ Throttle isn't as necessary. I actually have power. But the things I learned about tire placement and picking lines has stuck with me, as has extra caution about checking what's ahead of you since its a daily driver and still on loan.

[Beezil]

this thread sucks....

good sack riding by kejtar though.....

[Stick]

This thread was started by someone who cant weld... :scottm: