Pipe off water pump

Okay so recently when I did the closed to open cooling system conversion I noticed something. The water pumps on 91+ XJs have an actual pipe coming up that bends to make it a hell of a lot easier to connect that heater hose to. Can you fit that pipe to older water pumps short of welding? I noticed on the 91+ ones they have a thread-in-nut holding the pipe in but I'm not sure about the older XJs. Anyone have any idea what I'm talking about? Has anyone done this to theirs? I just like the idea of an actual piece of pipe making a 90 degree angle rather than rubber hose (and yes I have the molded hoses). I guess other than that can anyone tell me if there is a difference between the 90- and 91+ water pumps, because next time I replace the pump I might as well put a 91+ one on there. Thanks guys.
-Collin

My 88 has it too.

old_man said:

My 88 has it too.

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Your 88 has the pipe that actually comes up and then bends at a 90 degree angle, or just the straight pipe?

On all my RENIX, it's a short, straight nipple.

However, the hole in the water pump housing is threaded 3/8" NPT - and I got a long brass nipple, an elbow, and a short brass nipple, and make my right-angle bend out of that. Still working - it's been five years.

You should have no trouble getting what you need at a hardware store - too bad I don't recall what length you need for the vertical nipple...

5-90

My 89 has a straight pipe about 5" long. I just changed the water pump and all of the hoses last weekend. I bought the replacements from NAPA and the hose that attaches to that pipe is curved. I have seen people try to use a length of plain heater hose and it kinks where it attaches to the pipe.

It's been a while since I converted my '88 to the open system, but if I remember correctly the curved pipe used on the later XJ's fits on the older ones also. Good Luck.

Woody

Do a search on 5-90's posts, I think it was back in august he posted the complete specs on the parts needed. I got it to do on the daughters TJ, those factory pipes are some kink of cheap metal that seems to corrode and her's is living on borrowed time. The advantage of 5-90's is you don't have to remove the water pump to to put it on OR clamp the water pump in a vise to remove and install the new one.

Thanks for all the help all of you. I'm gonna try to sneak a pipe off of a junkyard one to see if it'll thread into mine if not I'll go with 5-90s method. Like I said I have the molded hose that makes the 90 degree bend right now I'd just still rather have it be metal. We'll see what happens and once I figure it out I'll let you guys know. Thanks again.

5-90's method works better than stock. I've done both my 88 and 95 with copper. The threaded portion doesn't stick to the water pump (copper is a whole lot easier to remove) and the elbow piece for the 95 was eaten almost through (from the inside), the walls were getting pretty darned thin.
Finding the threaded fitting to fit the right diameter copper, may be a problem, but they are out there.
I used copper rather than brass, because I had it handy. Using soft copper makes small adjustments a whole lot easier, if needed.

I got to looking at mine earlier and there is no nut to grab onto on the pipe like the newer ones. Should I just put a pair of vicegrips on there and twist? It is not a factory unit by the way.

BigBlackHeep said:

Should I just put a pair of vicegrips on there and twist? It is not a factory unit by the way.

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This is how we did it on a friend's '89 a few weeks ago. Make life easier: hit it with some PB Blaster first right at where the thread meets the neck and let it soak in. Expect it to require some persuasion in terms of twisting back and forth a few times before it frees up, especially if whoever fitted it before felt the need for teflon tape.

5-90 and others talk about a short straight nipple..

my 88 has about a 7 " pipe comming off that the hose goes on... I noticed on my parts diagrams though it shows this little nipple.. what goes on the end of the nipple... this setup intrigues me ....

I replaced all the hoses when i went to an open system back in 2001

*** best thing i ever did *** i dont know what 5-90 is smoking sticking with the closed system when he mods everything to make it better then it was...

I never had major problems with the closed system but it cracked the turtle about once a year down in central florida... in addition "burping" it was never fun but was easy if you used the CTS as a bleeder hose

wilcharl said:

5-90 and others talk about a short straight nipple..

my 88 has about a 7 " pipe coming off that the hose goes on... I noticed on my parts diagrams though it shows this little nipple.. what goes on the end of the nipple... this setup intrigues me ....

I replaced all the hoses when i went to an open system back in 2001

*** best thing i ever did *** i dont know what 5-90 is smoking sticking with the closed system when he mods everything to make it better then it was...

I never had major problems with the closed system but it cracked the turtle about once a year down in central florida... in addition "burping" it was never fun but was easy if you used the CTS as a bleeder hose

Click to expand...

Even though I went to the open system I do have to defend 5-90 on this one. He knows what he is doing unlike some of the rest of us (not claiming that you don't man, but I really didn't a whole lot and I just really didn't want to keep replacing pressure bottles). Granted I am more happy with the open system the closed is decent as long as you maintain it, and like 5-90 says a lot of OEMs are using it again now. Now back to the pipe though I have probably a 4" one coming off. My problem is I just want to have the one that bends like the newer style which it sounds like is doable by either 5-90s method or by using the pipe off one of the newer ones.

wilcharl said:

5-90 and others talk about a short straight nipple..

my 88 has about a 7 " pipe comming off that the hose goes on... I noticed on my parts diagrams though it shows this little nipple.. what goes on the end of the nipple... this setup intrigues me ....

I replaced all the hoses when i went to an open system back in 2001

*** best thing i ever did *** i dont know what 5-90 is smoking sticking with the closed system when he mods everything to make it better then it was...

I never had major problems with the closed system but it cracked the turtle about once a year down in central florida... in addition "burping" it was never fun but was easy if you used the CTS as a bleeder hose

Click to expand...

I think you'll find that, while I tend to make things work better than they did before, I also recognise when something works, and divert my attentions elsewhere.

I'll freely admit that most OEMs just don't build electrics up to scratch (come on - 6 or 8 gage mains? What are they smoking?) and I'm the first in line for a high-output alternator (I've got one in each of my rigs,) but when something works (like the closed cooling system,) I don't see any real need to improve it. The thing works just fine for me - and, properly maintained, should work fine for pretty much anyone.

A number of us got together backchannel some time ago, and tried to figure out what the sudden rush to convert was. It was decided that most people doing the conversion were due for a new radiator anyhow (we had all talked to DCX/Jeep service techs in various locations throughout the country, and gotten a common opinion - the OEMR radiators are typically good for 150-180kmiles. They are usually replaced with aftermarkets - typically Modines,) and since conversion requires a new radiator anyhow, they were fixing the right problem - just going the long way about it. I've got over 180kmiles on EACH of my four RENIX rigs, and the only reason the second 89 has the "open" system is because it was already converted when we got it - I might eventually convert it back, to simplify things (it's the oddball.)

Are there issues with the closed cooling system? Sure - the same issue you're likely to have with any cooling system - maintenance. Well maintained, there are no issues apart from having to "burp" the sytem when it's refilled, and I've given instructions over and over here on how to eliminate that as well.

Have I modified the RENIX cooling system? Sure - I've drilled the thermostat to make the system self-burping, and I've started designing copper heater lines to replace all those moulded right-angle bends that cost so damn much to replace. Apart from that, I really don't see any need to modify the system - it works fine.

If you'd like to see the heater hose mod I've done (and need to refine, I'll admit,) check out my website (link in sig.)

As far as the 'short, straight' nipple - that's what I've run into on all my water pump changes. It's easy to eliminate - just don't take it off the old pump, and don't put it on the new one. As far as replacing the nipple on a pump already in service, I find my "pipe nipple" wrenches (an internal, cam-action wrench) to be most useful - check around at hardware stores for them, they should be fairly cheap. Failing that, vice-grips will work (usually.)

Make sure to apply Teflon paste on the threads of the pipe before you install it - not only do tapered pipe threads want a little help sealing, it makes it easier still to pull out later.

As far as "what I'm smoking," I'm partial to Partagas 8-9-8's, but also like anything by Nat Sherman, and most other Partagas smokes as well.

I hope I've answered all your questions to your satisfaction - just trying to help...

5-90

hhaha that brought me a good laugh... i guess the main reason for my conversion was like i said the shattering of the plastic "turtles" they would crack and i would be off trying to replace them.. The radiator went about 170,000 miles and needing a new one, it just made sense to do the open system, it elimitated the "turtle" and elimitated the plumbers nightmare by the firewall and replaced it with a nice clean system, it also brogught (alegedley) a fully closed heater control valve that the early renix design lacked..

wilcharl said:

hahaha that brought me a good laugh... i guess the main reason for my conversion was like i said the shattering of the plastic "turtles" they would crack and i would be off trying to replace them.. The radiator went about 170,000 miles and needing a new one, it just made sense to do the open system, it elimitated the "turtle" and elimitated the plumbers nightmare by the firewall and replaced it with a nice clean system, it also brogught (alegedley) a fully closed heater control valve that the early renix design lacked..

Click to expand...

Oh same here man... the damn pressure bottles and yeah I had an aftermarket radiator that had seen better days and a mess of heater plumbing. To me it only made sense too, I'm just saying 5-90 is right about the closed system if it is maintained properly and if you know as much about it as he does.

wilcharl said:

i guess the main reason for my conversion was like i said the shattering of the plastic "turtles" they would crack and i would be off trying to replace them..

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You might want to look into swapping the OEM one for a Volvo coolant bottle. We did this on a friend's '89 a few weeks back, and the Volvo bottles appear to be beefier than the OEM ones though still having a similar capacity. Still holds coolant, and his '89 with a closed system runs consistently cooler than my 2000 with the open system. Having said that, I did a major flush (8-hour stuff in the system during the week, 10-minute before the change) and replacement of coolant today so things may even out on that score.

wilcharl said:

hhaha that brought me a good laugh... i guess the main reason for my conversion was like i said the shattering of the plastic "turtles" they would crack and i would be off trying to replace them.. The radiator went about 170,000 miles and needing a new one, it just made sense to do the open system, it elimitated the "turtle" and elimitated the plumbers nightmare by the firewall and replaced it with a nice clean system, it also brogught (alegedley) a fully closed heater control valve that the early renix design lacked..

Click to expand...

Yes - that's why I order them several at a time (Morris 4x4 Center - www.morris4x4center.com - has them for about $20 with cap) and I date them when I install them. Four or five years later, I'll replace the thing (bottle and cap) whether it needs it or now - and I've usually got one on the shelf for emergency replacement anyhow. So far, I haven't had any "emergencies."

I do have, on my list, designing a "permanent" replacement for the thing - probably making it out of copper, brass, or aluminum.

5-90

That 90 degree pipe is the most dumb *ss piece of crap ever put on a jeep.
The FSM actally says to tighten "properly" then unscrew it till it is aligned as needed.
Well now its not tightened properly any more is it? No big deal, if it leaks simply remove the water pump to fix it.