I hate RTV

[scorpio_vette]

RTV is the dumbest f****** shit ever invented by man. give me a gasket any day. i've never had one leak. on the other hand that RTV shit almost always leaks, plus it's a pain in the ass to assemble shit.

so here's the tech question.

i'm putting my 231 transfercase halfs back together and i'm already on my 3rd attempt. i keep getting more RTV on the inside, outside of the case and all over my hands before the 2 case halfs even meet. and when they finally do there is no more RTV left to make a seal. i already emptied 1 tube of RTV during these 3 attempts and if i go in the garage one more time today i swear to god i'll smash that stupid transfercase to pieces with a sledgehammer.

does anybody know if there is a 1 piece gasket you can buy for that t-case, or any tips on how to set up that RTV and put the halfs together succesfully???

[XgeekstarX]

it's made to be used sparingly. make sure the two pieces you're joining are clean and free of grease or oil. rtv is a lifesaver if you know how to use it correctly.

[bj-666]

i use it everyware and never get any leaks. your doing it wrong:laugh3:.

try spreading it on the fwd. half of the case spread it evenly and thin. then slide the rear half of the case up to it. on applications where it is important that it not touch till it is not going to shift anymore i try to start the bolts before the parts touch. use 2 longer bolts to allign the case halfs then slide them together and install the stock bolts and remove your "setup" bolts.

come on it's not that hard. if ya realy want to cuss at an adhesive pick up some 3M 5200 that stuff is about as unfriendly as ya can get.

[Geepfreak]

Dude,,, I use RTV on everything, except gas related items... oh and transmission area's... clean(really) the surface('es), apply a "thin" bead. I have never had a problem...

[BingBing]

I'll give another vote for using RTV on everything. Damn good sh!t. You are using too much.

[WobblesXJ]

I like it.

[kg4bet]

First use some starter fluid to clean the cases then use a very thin coat of rtv on both halfs.
Let them sit for about 2 or 3 minutes before assembly.

I have even use rtv blue to seal the hole left by removing the ele. starter from an old 350cc honda with no leaks.

if you want to cuss something try 3M's aviation gasket sealer.

73's KG4BET

[majic_tech]

get some of napas "right stuff" its urethane badass stuff .....and If you ever have to split the case again you might have to use that sledgehammer you speak of, but it will never leak.....

[Yucca-Man]

Dude - if you've used a tube of RTV in three attempts, you are using way, way too much of it. The tube you're using should have a pointed cover that you've probably thrown away. Go get another one.

Snip the end off the cap so there's a small (less than 1/8"ish) hole in the end, then puncture the top of the RTV tube and put the cap on. This way, when you squeeze the RTV tube you will get a thin, steady bead of RTV on the clean application surface. Don't go overboard with it because you should realize by now that the RTV will 'squish' considerably when the case halves are put together. Err toward the outside of the piece you are applying RTV to, and you can spread it into place with a clean popsicle stick or similar disposable applicator if you want. Let it skin up for 5-10 minutes (or whatever it says on the tube) and install the other half of the t-case as described by bj-666 above.

[UNCC_99XJ]

as mentioned above, the trick is to make sure that the surface is COMPLETELY clean of the old RTV and oil. The new stuff wouln't do crap if theres too much of the old stuff. I recommend a putty knife to scrape off the old stuff and some steel whool or something to act like a buffer and get rid of the deep down old RTV. Worked great when changing the diff. fluids on mine and i don't have the slightest leak. Also make sure you apply a somewhat thin but even layer of new RTV and again as mentioned, let it cure for about 2-3 minutes or so.

[scorpio_vette]

i got both of the mating surfaces clean. i'm a very anal person when working on my jeeps. but i hate RTV with a passion and never use it. if it has to be used, that's usually the only time i get somebody else to do the work for me.
i just been doing so much work at once on my jeep lately (lift, new/modified front axle, new modified rear axle, steering, etc..etc...) and figured i'd just do the SYE conversion myself and deal with it this time. but now i remember why i hate that shit so much.

i thought i remembered that you can buy gasket material in sheets and cut your own shapes. any reason why i couldn't use a paper gasket on a t-case???
i know i sound like a 5 year old with this RTV, but i'm not putting it back together with that. if anything it'll just lay around this somebody else puts it back together.

[dynamite44]

i'm with you on this one. don't use it unless i absolutely have to. i have had it work for me on a water neck and a moped transmission, but i still don't use it unless its absolutely necessary (almost never).

i get the paper gaskets for my D30 and chrysler 8.25 from the parts counter at advance auto parts. the best part aobut paper gaskets is there's no goop, anywhere, not even a little bit!
i have used RTV, but prefer the good old tried and true gaskets. RTV just seems like a halfassed way of doing things. why get the right part when you can make one out of a sticky mess?

[meaded]

The gasket will change clearances within the case, I assume it will affect end play of shafts. If a gasket is not intended I wouldn't make one.

[5-90]

What RTV?

For low-temperature and general-purpose use, I'll typically reach for the RTV Black. High temperature? RTV Red. Self-grounding sensors or hot gasses? RTV Copper.

RTV Blue? I use that for glue to stick notes to the wall - not anywhere in an engine. You'd be better off brushing your teeth with it.

What if RTV doesn't work the first time? I'll use LocTite #518 Gasket Eliminator - long work time, and greater gap tolerance.

However, do make sure the surfaces are CLEAN before applying, and maybe rough them up just a touch with a wire brush or Scotch-Brite (or 400-600 grit sandpaper, on a block, with a LIGHT TOUCH!) Apply a THIN layer of RTV (if you get to gasket thickness, you're getting too thick) and make sure you put the surfaces STRAIGHT together - don't "slip" or "wring" them if it can be avoided. RTV can and will "scrub out" if you slip the surfaces past each other. Use alignment pins if you have to.

I use RTV in places all the time, and I've not had any trouble that couldn't be traced to A) surface preparation (which isn't that difficult) or B) FUBAR surfaces (that wouldn't seal with a gasket, either - but I could build one out of RTV to make it to half-past next week...)

5-90

[RichP]

I've done 3 or 4 NP231's in the last month or two, SYE kits in TJ's. I too do not like RTV but the kit came with a pressurized tube of the black stuff. It worked [so far, leastwise nobodys complained....yet]. gotta use it sparingly, small bead about 1/8" diameter on one side then let it sit for 20 min to skim over.
Cleaning the old stuff off is half the battle, once I got the cases in my hands cleaning all the old stuff off took me about 30 minutes with a razor, rubbing fingers, pocket knife, paper towels, spare underwear, whatever. Once it was nice an clean then the bead went on. It worked well and coming from me that something, I hate the stuff....

[5-90]

That is precisely why I stock up on brass wire wheels whenever I find them - I go through them rather quickly, and the brass wires are soft enough that it's easy for me to NOT scar the surface I'm cleaning, as long as it's some sort of metal...

5-90

[RichP]

That is precisely why I stock up on brass wire wheels whenever I find them - I go through them rather quickly, and the brass wires are soft enough that it's easy for me to NOT scar the surface I'm cleaning, as long as it's some sort of metal...

5-90

Not me, don't want some spinning brush throwing the bits all over the place. The guys house we do these lifts and mods at has all the tools but his GF takes a really dim view of parts coming thru the kitchen door from the garage, as in punch you in the nose dim view.... during the summer here I'll rinse it out with a hose but I try to get the old stuff off and outta the case area. Amazingly enough paper towels [brawny] or old jockey shorts takes it off pretty well, green weenies would probably work well too and I started carrying them in my possibles bag for the next time, brass though will scratch the aluminum, tried it with a brass tooth brush, started marring the hash marks that were on the case ends.

[WB9YZU]

Try Scotch brite and mineral spirits to remove RTV from aluminum surfaces.

[Dave in Eugene]

Two words:

Anaerobic sealant.

The stuff is 10 times better than RTV.

Aluminum is porous and a used case will have soaked up a lot of oil. A hot water parts washer works well if you have one, scrub with hot water & dish soap otherwise. Or clean it real good with brake cleaner (starting fluid is just nasty) then spray on some loctite primer. Then a bead of flexible sealant. Loctite 518 would be a good choice for split aluminum cases.

[CanMan]

Two words:

Anaerobic sealant.

The stuff is 10 times better than RTV.




X2, I use that chit at work all the time, and on my personal stuff. A simple little bead and your good to go. Seals even if the surfaces aren't that clean. I use it on metal to metal mating on pinion and output shaft seals too.

Its called Gasket Maker, GM's version of the stuff.
http://tinypic.com/m7weg4.jpg

[RTicUL8]

X2, I use that chit at work all the time...
Me goopered my phone so yousers cant-a use it. Ha-Ha!
http://home.comcast.net/~mypcwrench/rtvphone.JPG



Fixed it!:thumbup:


.

[CanMan]

Fixed it!:thumbup:


Thanks!

[AZ Jeff]

What RTV?

For low-temperature and general-purpose use, I'll typically reach for the RTV Black. High temperature? RTV Red. Self-grounding sensors or hot gasses? RTV Copper.

Good advice.

<Humor mode ON>One time, when I had to replace my thermostat under "emergency" conditions, the only RTV I had was white "GE Silicone Bathtub Caulk", which is a type of RTV. I used that stuff, in conjunction with a gasket, and it lasted many 10's of thousands of miles with no leaks. NOTE--I do NOT endorse using this type of RTV as a regular substitute for the stuff intended for automotive applications!!!
<Humor mode OFF>

[yardape]

I'm RTV phobic. I have a transfer case that seeps because of it. The case halves were as clean as could be when I reassembled it. I guess you have to have "the magic touch."

[iroc86]

I used to use RTV on the "important" items, such as trannies and transfer cases... until I heard about anaerobic sealer. Like others have already mentioned, the Gasket Eliminator, etc. products are great. Why? Anaerobic sealant dries only in the absence of oxygen, which means it's only going to bond to the surfaces clamped together. Any extra goop will remain gelatinous and will eventually be worked free by the lubricating oil of the tranny/case itself... a simple fluid change will get rid of all of the excess. I've never seen it hurt any moving parts, either (though I don't usually go overkill on application).

For diffs and other small items, I still use RTV mainly because it's cheaper and probably a little more pliable if you have to take things apart. It seems like I'm always changing axle fluid...

[Omniboy]

Here is link to loctites web site. They have a area that ask you questions about what your wanting to seal and recommend the correct product. Helpful if you don't know. And yes loctite 518 is the correct sealant for the transfer case.

http://www.loctite.com/int_henkel/loctite_us/index.cfm?&pageid=20&layout=2

[markw]

You must be using the cheap stuff. Try permatex Ultra Grey. Way easy to work with and is great for joining xfer cases and fwd trannys. Use it for both the xfer case, and manual transmissions on my honda's. No leaks.

[scorpio_vette]

well after 2 more failed attempts i finally got the case back together and let it sit over night since it's a bit cold out.

now the f****** t-case won't shift/engage right. i tried turning the input/output shafts by hand and as far as i can tell i have 3 neutrals and 1 4wd. i've worked on jeeps for years, but this is my first time pulling a tranny and t-case and putting in a SYE. and i'll i can say, is it's not worth the headache. i'll do anything else on my jeep, but i'm never ever pulling the t-case or tranny again. i'm gonna finish putting my rear axle together and hook up my new steering system, and then i'm gonna pay somebody to figure out what's wrong with the stupid t-case and hang the tranny back up. this is the first time ever that i quit on a job, but this thing ain't worth the headache.

[WobblesXJ]

wow, I've never heard of anyone having so much troubles with the sye conversion. Sorry man.

[XJCreeper]

I feel your pain and wish I could come over and help ya out. If it ain't shifting right it could be the mode sleeve is on the mode fork backwards or you missed a snap ring installation. Exploded the magnet on my first one trying to force it together. You almost need a third hand to slap it back together.

I know from experience that looking at an exploded diagram can give you a headache if you haven't done it once or twice. Don't beat youself up about it you did you best. Putting together a NP231 can be real PITA. Regardless, exploding your truck's transfer case will just cause you more pain.

Don't let that NP231 whip ya down man. Take it to a pro and have him put it together for you. He can show you where the problem inside is and make you a more knowledgable in the process. Whip it's butt back into shape and learn from a someone who's done it once or twice.

[scorpio_vette]

well i did some other work that i knew i wasn't going to have problems with, and that put me in a better mood. building my new rear dana44 from ground up(new housing, new gears,new detroit, etc..etc..etc..) and other stuff.
i got somebody coming over on sunday to check out the t-case and set it up properly. i'm really pissed though. this is the first time that i didn't finish something on my own. i don't mind having somebody teach me something, but this looked so simple. $10 says my ego is gonna make me rip that thing apart again on saturday and try it myself again. i just can't believe that something that simple looking is kicking my ass. hell my first major job ever was replacing valve stem seals and manualy adjusting the backlash on the rocker arms in my 84 corvette. i didn't even screw that up. and i had never done any car work before that. now after 4 years of working on jeeps and a stupid t-case kicks my ass. unbelievable.

sorry if i'm going on and on, but this is just stupid.

[XJCreeper]

When I did mine I found the directions from JB conversions had rather hard to figure diagrams. Thank goodness the Teralow directions helped me through. Since then I've had quite a few headscratcher that bugged me too. I got a OEM Factory Service Manual and since then working on the XJ had been kinder to me. A CD can be bought on Ebay for about $20.00 shipping included and buys alot of piece of mind.

[scorpio_vette]

wow, I've never heard of anyone having so much troubles with the sye conversion. Sorry man.


somebody hates me. LOL

so i left the t-case alone for a couple days and worked on other stuff. everything else went great, and i started getting in a better mood. so today i keep working on the t-case and get everything done, go to put the last piece on. the rear yoke. as i test fit it by hand, i was thinking that the seal didn't look like it was big enough for the yoke. well maybe once i put the yoke in, it'll slip over it. so i start tightening it by hand, and it's going really hard. so i try tightening with my impact just a little. it doesn't seem to wanna go. then i tried spinning the yoke by hand, and the whole thing is seized up. nothing moves, turns, or does anything else.

so i call advanced adapters, he has me take the yoke of and read the part number to him.

guess what???............they send me a non-double cardon yoke which was also to big for the seal. now the kit didn't come in seperate pieces. everything came nicely packaged in one box. so somebody packed the wrong parts together. so the guy has me "test fit" it on to the tom woods driveshaft that they send me with the kit. well that end of the yoke doesn't fit neither. not only does it not fit the u-joints on the driveshaft properly, it doesn't even line up with the holes for the little u-joint clamps.

i have never ever ordered anything for my jeep that i had this many problems with. oh well. at least everything else on this jeep buildup project went nicely. now that would have sucked, if both axles buildups, the lift, and everything else would have went like this t-case. can't have everything go smoothly i guess. so i'll just go hang my new bumper and winch while i wait for my new --hopefully this time correct---parts.