XJs can disco all around?

[MooseXJ]

i was readin something on JU about disco front and rear...
no one said dont do it, but i know when i had my tj, no one ever disco'ed the rear cause it was likely to flop over, curious what yall do and if its just as safe to do and get more flex, cause there was times this past weekend at disney i could have used some more flex to keep all tires on the ground. let me know thanks

[Jeffro600]

I cant think of a single person who i wheel with with any sort of Jeep that runs a rear swaybar....take it off, throw it in the trashcan/ebay it/etc. I promise you, it will not cause you to flop running without a rear....only you doing something outside of your boundries or something stupid will cause that.

Run disconnects on the front...runing no swaybar on the street is a good way to roll your XJ. Swerve one time at speed and youll probably end up wishing you kept that front swaybar. Off-road, just disconnect it....the difference in flex is NIGHT AND DAY.

[outlander]

Do a search....it's very common for most of us here to remove the rear sway alltogether with no ill effects.

[Timber]

XJs generally have no problem without a rear anti-sway bar. You'll find that Up Country Xjs didn't have them from the factory, and the reason is the higher-rated leaf springs. They help counteract any side-to-side motion that another variety of XJ would rely on an anti-sway bar to fix. Tjs may need to keep one because of the coil-sprung rear end. If you read any of the off-road magazines, you'll notice the Currie Anti-Rock Sway Bar kits (or similar ones by other manufacturers) being used in the rears of coil-sprung trucks. JP magazine had a Q&A-type article once featuring answers by (I think) Waggoner Machine Shop guys. They basically indicated to keep the rear bar on stock to semi-stock rigs, but I don't recall if they were referring to all rear-suspension types or not.

[creeperjeep]

i was readin something on JU about disco front and rear...
no one said dont do it, but i know when i had my tj, no one ever disco'ed the rear cause it was likely to flop over, curious what yall do and if its just as safe to do and get more flex, cause there was times this past weekend at disney i could have used some more flex to keep all tires on the ground. let me know thanks

Contrary to popular belief you can run with no rear sway bar even in a TJ
I know alot of guys and a girl that have no rear swaybar.

XJs are almost acceptable to run no sways at all, if you dont do too much road driving, myself I have not had any swaybars at all ever, but I will say that Im going to use a front with discos on my new rig

[Kejtar]

i was readin something on JU about disco front and rear...
no one said dont do it, but i know when i had my tj, no one ever disco'ed the rear cause it was likely to flop over, curious what yall do and if its just as safe to do and get more flex, cause there was times this past weekend at disney i could have used some more flex to keep all tires on the ground. let me know thanks
my XJ came from factory with no rear swaybar (98 upcountry package)

[90Pioneer]

I have noticed absolutely no difference on my '96 XJ running with both sway bars disconnected. In fact the rear made a bigger difference in handling change than the front did.

Just to make sure I did some "abrasive" maneuvers on an empty highway so I would know what to expect with no front sway bar. Noticed absolutely no difference with them connected or disconnected, other than I have WAY more flex. Even the body roll is pretty much the same.

I don't know why everyone acts like it's a death sentence to run without a front sway on the road.

[Haggar]

I do not run sway bars on either the front or rear on my XJ w/3.5" RE kit.

It leans, oh well, its a lifted Jeep. I ditched the rear on my old lifted TJ as well, and originally had front discos. The bolt holding it together backed out at some point, I got used to driving with no front either, and just eventually removed the front discos and front bar as well.

On the TJ, running no rear and keeping the front can lead to lifting a tire on the street since the front axle doesn't want to flex in a turn but the rear will. A hard accelerating left turn (like being in a left turn lane and gunning it) lifts the front left wheel up about 6" off the pavement. Didn't do that without the front bar, as the axle could droop..

[MooseXJ]

sweet good to know, soo how about tire wear, this is my DD and these 37s are pricey. will it wear them down, thats what i have heard.

[Badcop]

I dont have any front or rear with 37's and it does fine, no extra wer....

[Trailbst]

sweet good to know, soo how about tire wear, this is my DD and these 37s are pricey. will it wear them down, thats what i have heard.

Not true. The tires have a tendency to stay on the road, until a huge mass i.e. your body, shifts and causes them to come off the road.

An Anti-sway bar is there to keep the body from shifting hard and fast, in an evasive manuever, and causing you to lose control. If you look at the design, as one side comes up, the other side of the anti-sway bar wants to push the load back down. By removing them, you are now allowing the body to move independently of the axles and tires.

It shouldn't not affect tire wear at all. Bad shocks or worn out shock bushings, now that's a different story.


Erik

[Jeepin Jason]

mental note: don't ever visit Lake Orion, MI, or wherever 90Pioneer is from.

IMO driving on the highway without a front swaybar is just foolish. Do you guys also drive without your seatbelts? Most suspensions aren't setup to be run without a front swaybar, but hey, it's not my rig or my life, and I'm really not trying to start a pissing match.

But back to the original topic, ditch the rear swaybar and get disconnects for the front. It won't have any effect on tire wear. Whomever said that it would is loopy.

[Trailbst]

Pissing contest not necessary.

Just think though. For how many decades did vehicles drive with out anti-sway bars. How many decades for Jeeps alone, and lifted Jeeps at that?

They are there for those who are not as skilled at driving their vehicles, and want some sort of safety measure to keep them from killing themselves. A soccer mom in an Expedition does an evasive manuever, she just jerks the wheel, no braking, so the anti-sway bars have to save her a$$ for her. Or the pretty boy who buys a big SUV and talks on the phone and doesn't pay attention to what's going on in front of him. The anti-sway bars save his a$$ too.

For those of us who build and drive our rigs daily, yourself included, we tend to be more aware of how our vehicle reacts in certain situations, and how to react to those situations.

Ditch the rear anti-sway bar. Ditch the front if you so desire, and think you can handle your vehicle with it's new handling characteristics.

[Lawn Cher']

mental note: don't ever visit Lake Orion, MI, or wherever 90Pioneer is from.

IMO driving on the highway without a front swaybar is just foolish. Do you guys also drive without your seatbelts? Most suspensions aren't setup to be run without a front swaybar, but hey, it's not my rig or my life, and I'm really not trying to start a pissing match.

But back to the original topic, ditch the rear swaybar and get disconnects for the front. It won't have any effect on tire wear. Whomever said that it would is loopy.

x2

[Roxtar]

I ran for a year with no swaybars.
Yes, the handleing suffered.
No, not to anywhere near dangerous levels.
It allowed the body to sway more, that's all.
No tipping over, no turning problems.

I put it back when I four linked the rear.
Four link, rear air shox, soft front springs, and no swaybars...
Driving THAT was an adrenaline rush. :D

[Jeepin Jason]

Just think though. For how many decades did vehicles drive with out anti-sway bars. How many decades for Jeeps alone, and lifted Jeeps at that?[/b]

Multi-link coil sprung suspensions handle very different than leaf sprung suspensions. Jeeps have only had coils for the last 2 decades, and we've really only seen big lifts and tires in the last 1 decade (even back in the mid to early-late 90's, 32's were a 'big' tire for an XJ, 33's were pretty hardcore, and 35's were virtually unheard of). Couple that with a huge increase in drivers in general, and younger drivers, and cheap Jeeps that are easy and popular to lift. There's probably 1 big XJ a year totalled on JU as a result of an evasive manuever on the road without a front swaybar that resulted in a rollover. You guys may rag on JU folks, but I think they're a lot more indicative of the average Jeeper and XJer than the people here.

Again, the best analogy is your seatbelt. It's not there because you need it all the time, it's there for those emergency situations when you DO need it. I'm almost 29, been driving since I was 14, driven almost everyday in those 15 years, and I wear my seatbelt everytime, everyday. I've only needed it on 4 occasions (sp?) though.

[Haggar]

x2

To each his own...

It depends on how your rigs are set up and how well you drive. Shocks and your spring packs have something to do with it as well. But in my personal experience, its not too bad on an XJ, the rear leaves do a decent job of sway control. Much better that a TJ, even though I didn't mind it there.

I know my vehicles, and know my limits. I have worked pit crew for my friends road race team, and done some autocrossing, I have a pretty decent knowledge of suspension theory and practice. I also worked in the chassis group at Jeep/Truck Engineering for 3 years, and 3 more years designing the braking and stability control systems for Jeeps & ford SUVs(you might have met me at camp Jeep working the ABS booth).

A quick poll of other XJs in my club shows most of the bigger Jeeps aren't running sway bars front or rear.

I've found that running just a front without a rear bar was worse that running none or both. The balance isn't too my liking. None of my past or present trail rigs (Cj3a, Cj5, TJ, XJ or my Toyota) run sway bars. My previous daily driver Jeeps(2 XJs, a TJ, and a YJ) ran stock bars. My current XJ (98 classic) is mainly a daily driver, with trail use for smaller runs (My Toyota on 36" SXs is for any hardcore wheeling trips). The front sway bar wasn't hooked up when I bought it, so I have left it that way, as the driving dynamics were acceptable to me.

My advice is to remove the links and try driving it in some controlled situations and see how it feels to you.

[Jeepin Jason]

wow, you are SO not the average XJer (or Jeeper), in my experience anyway. Most XJers I've seen are college kids on their 1st or 2nd vehicle, who built to to go have fun offroad with their buds.

I do agree what shocks and springs have a lot to do with it. When I replaced my old DT3000 shocks with a set of Bilstein 5150's, the Bilstein's noticably reduced both body roll (even with the swaybar) and brake dive. Still doesn't mean I'm going to go driving down the highway at 65-70 mph in an XJ with 5.5" of lift and 35" tires with no front swaybar though. ;)

[cal]

Pissing contest not necessary.

Just think though. For how many decades did vehicles drive with out anti-sway bars. How many decades for Jeeps alone, and lifted Jeeps at that?


Two words.

LEAF SPRINGS

;)

[Badcop]

wow, you are SO not the average XJer (or Jeeper), in my experience anyway. Most XJers I've seen are college kids on their 1st or 2nd vehicle, who built to to go have fun offroad with their buds.


?

Where did you come up with those stats?

[Trailbst]

Multi-link coil sprung suspensions handle very different than leaf sprung suspensions.

True. You also have a 5 point multi-link, so it shouldn't be that unstable. Lots of things to control what's happening.

Jeeps have only had coils for the last 2 decades,

Not true, Coils were first on an IFS Jeep in 1962.

and we've really only seen big lifts and tires in the last 1 decade (even back in the mid to early-late 90's, 32's were a 'big' tire for an XJ, 33's were pretty hardcore, and 35's were virtually unheard of).

You only mention XJs. CJs have been around a long time, and have been lifted for a long time. Big lifts. XJs, you're right, they are a recent thing.

Couple that with a huge increase in drivers in general, and younger drivers, and cheap Jeeps that are easy and popular to lift. There's probably 1 big XJ a year totalled on JU as a result of an evasive manuever on the road without a front swaybar that resulted in a rollover. You guys may rag on JU folks, but I think they're a lot more indicative of the average Jeeper and XJer than the people here.

Part of this is true as well. JU is indicative of the NEW Jeep driver. Haggar is obviously not a new driver, and neither am I. I have friends here and elsewhere in country who have been driving lifted Jeeps for years, some as long as 3 decades. This is not a new thing. Just new to some.

Personally, I'm on my 4th XJ, still have my first CJ, and have had a J2000. My dad has had many more. He had a lifted Scout in the early 70s. His brother drove a lifted CJ-5 in the late 60s/early 70s.


Again, the best analogy is your seatbelt. It's not there because you need it all the time, it's there for those emergency situations when you DO need it. I'm almost 29, been driving since I was 14, driven almost everyday in those 15 years, and I wear my seatbelt everytime, everyday. I've only needed it on 4 occasions (sp?) though.

That is for the most part true. Could you have avoided any of the 4 situations? Defensive driving negates the need for a lot of things. Yes, unexpected ancidents happen, but defense driving allows you to avoid the majority of the incidents.


If you feel more comfortable with your anti-sway bars still connected, then leave them that way. If you like the rear off great, and if you like both off, it's your prerogative. If you want to custom fab discos for the rear, go for it. It's the greatest part about owning ANY Jeep, it's yours, and you get to modify it how you want

Want my opinion, ask me. I'm ok leaving the rear off. I've left the front off before and have not noticed a huge effect. I also take my Jeeps out and test them in big open lots. I accelerate, I brake, I throw it hard to the side. When it snows, I do the same thing. I love spinning cookies, and it saved my a$$ one time. Black ice on the highway, started to spin me, but since I had spent the time playing and learning my vehicle, I easily corrected and arrived at my destination safely, not on time, but safely.

Just don't try and shove your opinion down anyones throat. It's just your opinion.

My opinion is: Do what is right for you and your abilities.

I'm done, I'm outta here, will only read from here on out.


Erik

[MooseXJ]

man, this one took off, lots to say about this subject

[cal]

Just don't try and shove your opinion down anyones throat. It's just your opinion.

My opinion is: Do what is right for you and your abilities.
Erik

You forgot the part about also doing what is safe. It is socially irresponsible to drive a coil sprung vehicle without an anti-sway bar. You may well be an experianced and defensive driver, but that does not mean a kid won't step out in front of you, and it does not mean his friends wont be on the side of the road waiting to be rolled over.

[JIMBOJAMES]

Is the rear swaybar needed for towing a trailer?

[Jeffro600]

Is the rear swaybar needed for towing a trailer?


Depends on how heavy of a trailer and if your rear leafs are up to the job.

[Starboard M]

Last I checked, my Jeep doesnt dance, but sometimes its left alone, so I cant say for those periods of times.

:party:

[HaZakated]

i was readin something on JU about disco front and rear...
no one said dont do it, but i know when i had my tj, no one ever disco'ed the rear cause it was likely to flop over, curious what yall do and if its just as safe to do and get more flex, cause there was times this past weekend at disney i could have used some more flex to keep all tires on the ground. let me know thanks




Heres a decent thread about conversions. I also found a thread stating that Liberty's have an 8.25 in the rear and disks. The disks bolt right up to an XJ with a few minor modifications.

http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=72202&page=1&pp=15

[Lawn Cher']

Heres a decent thread about conversions. I also found a thread stating that Liberty's have an 8.25 in the rear and disks. The disks bolt right up to an XJ with a few minor modifications.

http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=72202&page=1&pp=15

Someone else has reading comprehension problems. :twak:

[Roxtar]

You forgot the part about also doing what is safe. It is socially irresponsible to drive a coil sprung vehicle without an anti-sway bar. You may well be an experianced and defensive driver, but that does not mean a kid won't step out in front of you, and it does not mean his friends wont be on the side of the road waiting to be rolled over.Honestly, have you ever actually driven an XJ w/o swaybars?
It really isn't the harrowing experience you seem to think it is.

[XJ_ranger]

I ran for a year with no swaybars.
Yes, the handleing suffered.
No, not to anywhere near dangerous levels.
It allowed the body to sway more, that's all.
No tipping over, no turning problems.


funny - i have the exact same thing to report with no front or rear swaybars...

for what its worth - my 92 NEVER had a rear swaybar from the factory...

[XJ_ranger]

Two words.

LEAF SPRINGS

;)

interesting - the YJ wrangler that my frined has came equiped with leaf springs and a front sway bar...

and a trackbar for that matter :D

[cal]

Honestly, have you ever actually driven an XJ w/o swaybars?
It really isn't the harrowing experience you seem to think it is.

Actually, yes.

I drove mine about three hundred miles without my front swaybar when I broke a disconnect, and there were times when it was really unstable.. sharp turning overpasses and such. I'm ok with heading into town disconnected, but I would NEVER suggest removing the swaybar entirly on a rig that see's regularly pavement.

Granted, I was on MUCH softer coils then than I am now.. i don't particularly care to give it another try.

[XJSpencer]

Swaybars are not to protect us from our own driving ability. They are for those times when something or somebody jumps out in front of you. Those are the times when you want it to handle like ...an Audi. If I wasn't sharing the road, I wouldn't wear a seatbelt as much....BUT I wear it all the time!


I think it'll fail you safety inspections in most places. It will(or should) in Utah.


Everyone can choose for themselves.

[red91]

Everyone can choose for themselves.

Uhm...no. Thats why we have the government...they like to tell us what to do.

[Rambo]

just to add my opinion.


i purchased a used set of jks disco's for my xj, and when i went to install them i ran into 2 problems

1. i could not remove the lower disconnect torx bolt (is that welded in by factory?)

2. my passnger side has the skyjacker plate the incoporates the pass swaybar connect and the steering stabalizer and the trackbar i believe. so in other words the jks cannot work.


So what did i do you might ask?

GRINDER to the stock swaybar connections and took it all out..

and installed the nice jks's on my lifted tj. and threw away the homemades.

i drive about 20 miles round trip to work on interstate 75 and 595. And i trully think it drives almost exactly the same as before. I also jerked it a couple times with no other cars around going 75mph and it did NOT sink down to a side or nothing of the nature. I will probably keep it off :exclamati

[XJSpencer]

Uhm...no. Thats why we have the government...they like to tell us what to do.

Yes they do.

[Trailbst]

You forgot the part about also doing what is safe. It is socially irresponsible to drive a coil sprung vehicle without an anti-sway bar. You may well be an experianced and defensive driver, but that does not mean a kid won't step out in front of you, and it does not mean his friends wont be on the side of the road waiting to be rolled over.


OK, I lied before, but your statement is so assinine, that I feel it requires a response.

"Socially Irresponsible"??? Do you eat granola too? If we are going to go the "socially irresponsible" route, then driving a lift SUV with larger than stock tires, but stock brakes, then that is "socially irresponsible". To increase the inertia of moving parts, but rely on stock parts to stop it?

I can't believe you'd use a phrase like that. You sound like the people who want to see our sport die completely. Heck, they might read that, and it might appear in one of the papers tomorrow.

"Socially irresponsible". It's a good thing I can't make this personal. There are so many funny quips I could throw at you.

We'll leave it at the fact that your set-up made you nervous without your anti-sway bars, and hence forth you will ALWAYS recommend to people that they leave them on. Regardless of that the fact, that many seasoned XJ drivers have thrown out there that it hasn't affected the handling characteristics of their vehicle.

So Cal, can you tell me the first Jeep to have IFS, and Coils? Do you know your Jeep history? Seems to me, all you know is "your" XJ.


Erik
Call me, we can make this private! 401-935-7302

[XJ_ranger]

Erik
Call me, we can make this private! 401-935-7302

this is going to be fun...

[cal]

"Socially Irresponsible"??? ... If we are going to go the "socially irresponsible" route, then driving a lift SUV with larger than stock tires, but stock brakes, then that is "socially irresponsible". To increase the inertia of moving parts, but rely on stock parts to stop it?


As a matter of fact, I agree with you there. Most of the more respectable people I know running 33+ have upgraded their brakes as well, to be safe on the highway. Be that an f150 hp44, WJ converted d30, or even just slotted rotors with high friction pads and a better power booster.. not to mention rear disk brakes.

I do see guys run 35/37's on stock axles and brakes, and I'll tell you now that I don't drive anywhere near them - street or trail. That has not been a great restriction for me, as most people that I know (myself included) have addressed this.

[Begster]

In the directions to a RE4.5 kit, it says that the rear swaybar will not be reused. I have been driving around without my swaybars connected for a while now, and its fine, I actually think its smoother and more fun. Another XJ with 5.5 and spacers took his bars out completely and says hes fine without them.

[Roxtar]

As a matter of fact, I agree with you there. Most of the more respectable people I know running 33+ have upgraded their brakes as well, to be safe on the highway. Be that an f150 hp44, WJ converted d30, or even just slotted rotors with high friction pads and a better power booster.. not to mention rear disk brakes.

I do see guys run 35/37's on stock axles and brakes, and I'll tell you now that I don't drive anywhere near them - street or trail. That has not been a great restriction for me, as most people that I know (myself included) have addressed this.I'll be sure to warn you the next time I get out your way :angel:

[Trailbst]

As a matter of fact, I agree with you there. Most of the more respectable people I know running 33+ have upgraded their brakes as well, to be safe on the highway. Be that an f150 hp44, WJ converted d30, or even just slotted rotors with high friction pads and a better power booster.. not to mention rear disk brakes.

I do see guys run 35/37's on stock axles and brakes, and I'll tell you now that I don't drive anywhere near them - street or trail. That has not been a great restriction for me, as most people that I know (myself included) have addressed this.


So now, anyone who hasn't upgraded their brakes isn't "respectable" in your eyes.

Tell me this: How do you know who has and hasn't upgrade their brakes on the street? Sixth sense? On the trail, do you make people fill out questionnaires about their rigs before you wheel with them?


Anyhow, now that we know it's "socially irresponsible" to disconnect your sway bars, according to Cal, who only knows about XJs. I guess we all need to dig through the scrap piles or hit the junkyards to find our rear swaybars. :laugh3: Even if your rig didn't come with one from the factory. God forbid that we're "socially irresponsible".

Ya know, I don't think we'd have all of these cool offroad accessories if our predeccesors had been "socially responsible".

Erik

[Kejtar]

So now, anyone who hasn't upgraded their brakes isn't "respectable" in your eyes.

Tell me this: How do you know who has and hasn't upgrade their brakes on the street? Sixth sense? On the trail, do you make people fill out questionnaires about their rigs before you wheel with them?


Anyhow, now that we know it's "socially irresponsible" to disconnect your sway bars, according to Cal, who only knows about XJs. I guess we all need to dig through the scrap piles or hit the junkyards to find our rear swaybars. :laugh3: Even if your rig didn't come with one from the factory. God forbid that we're "socially irresponsible".

Ya know, I don't think we'd have all of these cool offroad accessories if our predeccesors had been "socially responsible".

Erik

Ummm dude, so you're saying that if you upgrade your tire size it will have no negative effect on braking? That if you yank all swaybars out it will not have an impact on your handling? If that's the case, then you're full of it :D
I heard people say that they run without swaybars and that they know their rigs limitations so they don't make any sudden maneuvers: God forbid a little kid runs onto the road chasing a ball!

[Kejtar]

In the directions to a RE4.5 kit, it says that the rear swaybar will not be reused. I have been driving around without my swaybars connected for a while now, and its fine, I actually think its smoother and more fun. Another XJ with 5.5 and spacers took his bars out completely and says hes fine without them.
he's fine? OK, take the rig for a drive and swerve suddendly while dooing 30mph (residential speed limit) as though you were trying to avoid a 3 year old that ran out onto the street.

[Trailbst]

Ummm dude, so you're saying that if you upgrade your tire size it will have no negative effect on braking? That if you yank all swaybars out it will not have an impact on your handling? If that's the case, then you're full of it :D
I heard people say that they run without swaybars and that they know their rigs limitations so they don't make any sudden maneuvers: God forbid a little kid runs onto the road chasing a ball!

Ummm dude, before posting, read the whole thread, all of it.

I said that I've pulled out the rear with no noticable effects. I said that I've run for extended periods of time with the front disconnected with no noticable effects. I said that you if drive defensively, you won't need the safety features as much. I'm the one who said that big tires do affect braking.

SCREW THIS, go read and you'll see what's been said. Why am I recapping for you!

Maybe because I drive more than one type of Jeep, I'm more conscientous of what is going on. Try going from a 71 CJ-5 on 35s to an XJ. The XJ is a freaking limousine.

If you are so freaking brain dead that you have to swerve to miss something, then you weren't paying attention to your surroundings. I bet that cops sneak up on your bumper, because you don't pay attention to your rearview mirror. Put the cell phone down, turn down the stereo, and pay attention to the 2 ton vehicle that you are in control of. Don't wait till the last damn second and have to rely on the anti-sway bars of the ABS to save your ass.

Jimminy, it's people like you, that the car industries are building vehicles for. So damn complex, with all their requirements. If we all weren't in such a rush to get everywhere, if we'd put the cell phones down, there wouldn't be as many "accidents", that in turn mandate all of the "safety" equipment. You're brain is your biggest piece of safety equipment, USE IT.

[cal]

So now, anyone who hasn't upgraded their brakes isn't "respectable" in your eyes.

Tell me this: How do you know who has and hasn't upgrade their brakes on the street? Sixth sense? On the trail, do you make people fill out questionnaires about their rigs before you wheel with them?


Anyhow, now that we know it's "socially irresponsible" to disconnect your sway bars, according to Cal, who only knows about XJs. I guess we all need to dig through the scrap piles or hit the junkyards to find our rear swaybars. :laugh3: Even if your rig didn't come with one from the factory. God forbid that we're "socially irresponsible".

Ya know, I don't think we'd have all of these cool offroad accessories if our predeccesors had been "socially responsible".

Erik

You're very good at taking things far beyond face value and putting words into peoples mouths. Next time stick to your not posting decision, and brighten everyone's day.

[Trailbst]

I will, if you follow my lead.

You blatantly ignored other people offered advice, and decided that only yours was correct.

[OT]

Uhm...no. Thats why we have the government...they like to tell us what to do.
What bill is it that says all coil sprung vehicles must have anti-sway bars installed?

[Kejtar]

I said that you if drive defensively, you won't need the safety features as much.
I still call spobi on that. No matter how defensively you drive, you can't take everything into account.


I'm the one who said that big tires do affect braking.
My bad, but this thread has morphed every way so things do get confused.


Maybe because I drive more than one type of Jeep, I'm more conscientous of what is going on. Try going from a 71 CJ-5 on 35s to an XJ. The XJ is a freaking limousine.
your point here is?


If you are so freaking brain dead that you have to swerve to miss something, then you weren't paying attention to your surroundings. I bet that cops sneak up on your bumper, because you don't pay attention to your rearview mirror. Put the cell phone down, turn down the stereo, and pay attention to the 2 ton vehicle that you are in control of. Don't wait till the last damn second and have to rely on the anti-sway bars of the ABS to save your ass.

Jimminy, it's people like you, that the car industries are building vehicles for. So damn complex, with all their requirements. If we all weren't in such a rush to get everywhere, if we'd put the cell phones down, there wouldn't be as many "accidents", that in turn mandate all of the "safety" equipment. You're brain is your biggest piece of safety equipment, USE IT.
People like me? Have you ever met me? Do you know me??? Dude, if you don't know me, how/where and how much I drive, think before you speak. I drive through the center of LA for the past 5 years in really shitty traffic. I drive total of 120 miles each day and so far I did pretty damn good: no major accidents (had a slight fender bender few months ago, but there are extenuating circumstances).

[ILLXJ]

You're brain is your biggest piece of safety equipment, USE IT.
The best advise in this thread. JIM.

[Roxtar]

he's fine? OK, take the rig for a drive and swerve suddendly while dooing 30mph (residential speed limit) as though you were trying to avoid a 3 year old that ran out onto the street.You may find this hard to believe but this is what will happen; you'll turn.
Yea, really, amazingly, you can still turn an XJ w/o swaybars.
Sure, you'll have more body roll. Yes, you'll feel less comfortable.
But it will still swerve.
Same thing with brakes.
The stock brakes on my 5000 lb XJ with 35s still do lock up.
Are they great brakes? No. Will they fade? Yes.
So what? I don't fly through twisty canyon roads.
For trail riding and light street use they are plenty good.
Honestly, how good do your brakes have to be to lock the tires up on a trail?

[Kejtar]

You may find this hard to believe but this is what will happen; you'll turn.
Yea, really, amazingly, you can still turn an XJ w/o swaybars.
Sure, you'll have more body roll. Yes, you'll feel less comfortable.
But it will still swerve.
Same thing with brakes.
The stock brakes on my 5000 lb XJ with 35s still do lock up.
Are they great brakes? No. Will they fade? Yes.
So what? I don't fly through twisty canyon roads.
For trail riding and light street use they are plenty good.
Honestly, how good do your brakes have to be to lock the tires up on a trail?
I agree to a certain extent: when it comes to a trail only rig, things are different but what is a light street use? There is no such thing: it's either used on the street or it's not.

[Roxtar]

I agree to a certain extent: when it comes to a trail only rig, things are different but what is a light street use? There is no such thing: it's either used on the street or it's not.It's occasionally used on the steet.
While on the street it swerves when the wheel is jerked and it stops when the brakes are hit.

[XJ_ranger]

It's occasionally used on the steet.
While on the street it swerves when the wheel is jerked and it stops when the brakes are hit.

really?

could this be?

an XJ with no sway bars still turns?

NO!!

it cant Be!!


My procomp ES300's act enough like a sway bar that i have very little concern when jumping in my 92 coming straigt outta the 91 with the sway bar still hooked up..

[Jeepin Jason]

?

Where did you come up with those stats?

XJers in my club here in Dallas, and on every other forum I go to besides NAXJA - JU, JeepForum, mine, and our clubs. But maybe I think that because the vocal majority are college kids, who naturally have more time to spend online on forums and such and are more likely to spend more time online on forums and such.

As for the 4 times I needed my seatbelt, I guess it's really only 3 now that I think about it... one was riding with a friend going through an intersection when someone blew through a stop sign, 90* front to front collision at ~45mph. The other instances I was driving my old Volvo (first car) and was hit by another vehicle - I got rear ended at about 30mph by a fullysize Jimmy while I was stopped waiting for traffic on a 2-lane road, the other time I was downtown (cars parked along the curb, low visiblity) back home and a car ran a stop sign and broadsided me. The last case was my inexperience at the time driving on ice and I slid into the back of a car going down a hill.

I simply think it's a bad recommendation to say it's OK to run without a front swaybar. Sure, there are going to be certain spring/shock setups and drivers that are capable of it, but I don't think that's the case for the average Joe boppin' around in his lifted XJ. That'd be like me telling everyone they'll be fine putting 6" of lift on a '97+ XJ without any worry of driveline vibs, simply because I know one guy that did it and didn't have any vib issues.

I see it as new guys are going to come in here and see all you guys saying sure, it's fine to run without a front swaybar, and they may not know or realize that hey, this guy's been driving lifted Jeeps for 3 decades (longer than i've even been alive) or that that guy is an automotive engineer with autocross racing experience.

Sure, all those facts came out later, but in this thread, we've got someone who's obviously new to XJ's but has some experience with TJ's, and 6 posts in 2 guys basically tell him it's perfectly fine to ditch the front swaybar because they don't have any issues driving disconnected in normal driving situations.

[Kejtar]

XJers in my club here in Dallas, and on every other forum I go to besides NAXJA - JU, JeepForum, mine, and our clubs. But maybe I think that because the vocal majority are college kids, who naturally have more time to spend online on forums and such and are more likely to spend more time online on forums and such.

As for the 4 times I needed my seatbelt, I guess it's really only 3 now that I think about it... one was riding with a friend going through an intersection when someone blew through a stop sign, 90* front to front collision at ~45mph. The other instances I was driving my old Volvo (first car) and was hit by another vehicle - I got rear ended at about 30mph by a fullysize Jimmy while I was stopped waiting for traffic on a 2-lane road, the other time I was downtown (cars parked along the curb, low visiblity) back home and a car ran a stop sign and broadsided me. The last case was my inexperience at the time driving on ice and I slid into the back of a car going down a hill.

I simply think it's a bad recommendation to say it's OK to run without a front swaybar. Sure, there are going to be certain spring/shock setups and drivers that are capable of it, but I don't think that's the case for the average Joe boppin' around in his lifted XJ. That'd be like me telling everyone they'll be fine putting 6" of lift on a '97+ XJ without any worry of driveline vibs, simply because I know one guy that did it and didn't have any vib issues.

I see it as new guys are going to come in here and see all you guys saying sure, it's fine to run without a front swaybar, and they may not know or realize that hey, this guy's been driving lifted Jeeps for 3 decades (longer than i've even been alive) or that that guy is an automotive engineer with autocross racing experience.

Sure, all those facts came out later, but in this thread, we've got someone who's obviously new to XJ's but has some experience with TJ's, and 6 posts in 2 guys basically tell him it's perfectly fine to ditch the front swaybar because they don't have any issues driving disconnected in normal driving situations.

Very well said!

[Dirk Pitt]

I drive without them.

It ain't a race car and it works for me.

You are probably not going to be able to change my mind about it.

JMO.

[OT]

I drive without them.

It ain't a race car and it works for me.

You are probably not going to be able to change my mind about it.

JMO.
Very well said!

[Lawn Cher']

I drive without them.

It ain't a race car and it works for me.

You are probably not going to be able to change my mind about it.

JMO.

You also have a whopper of a commute. Our '01 Upcountry stocker has no rear, but I notice a difference with the front connected versus disco'ed. Since it is my wife's DD, I don't see the benefit of taking chances since it only takes a couple of minutes to disconnect. Besides, I've already totaled one XJ... YMMV.

[XJ_ranger]

I see it as new guys are going to come in here and see all you guys saying sure, it's fine to run without a front swaybar, and they may not know or realize that hey, this guy's been driving lifted Jeeps for 3 decades (longer than i've even been alive) or that that guy is an automotive engineer with autocross racing experience.

Sure, all those facts came out later, but in this thread, we've got someone who's obviously new to XJ's but has some experience with TJ's, and 6 posts in 2 guys basically tell him it's perfectly fine to ditch the front swaybar because they don't have any issues driving disconnected in normal driving situations.

good call -
i do not advoacte removing or permanant disconecting the front sway bar, and in no way think that is the right way to do things -

i simply am reporting that i have not had anything bad come from not having my front sway bar on.

Jeep wouldnt have spent the $$$ on tooling, R+D and Labor to make and install these things had there not been a need....

YMMV

[Trailbst]

good call -
i do not advoacte removing or permanant disconecting the front sway bar, and in no way think that is the right way to do things -

i simply am reporting that i have not had anything bad come from not having my front sway bar on.

Jeep wouldnt have spent the $$$ on tooling, R+D and Labor to make and install these things had there not been a need....

YMMV

3 pages later, XJ_ranger nails it on the head. What everyone has been trying to say.

[Jeepin Jason]

http://jeepin.net/forum/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif

[P1atinum]

he's fine? OK, take the rig for a drive and swerve suddendly while dooing 30mph (residential speed limit) as though you were trying to avoid a 3 year old that ran out onto the street.

Who is this 3 year old kid that keeps running out in front of lifted XJ's with no swaybars? seems someone should talk to His or Her parents and get to the bottom of this.

Back on track,
I run with no swaybars and have whiped it around while on the beach to see how it would react, Bottom line 30 to 40 MHP hard breaking and hard turn = no rolling or tire lift. although it did have a lot of body roll and the front liked to dive I was never felt out of control close to rolling the jeep.

I am also not sitting her trying to tell you that having no swaybars is the same as having them on. I am saying you can drive an XJ without sway bars and not flip you jeep on the 3 year old's friend while swerving to avoid him. Statistically this is an anomolly, I would be more worried about that lighting bolt headed your way.

And I am sure everyone here would never talk on cell phones while driving, always indicate a lane change for the full 3 seconds, and never ever speed.. Uummmm.

[Timber]

Who is this 3 year old kid that keeps running out in front of lifted XJ's with no swaybars? seems someone should talk to His or Her parents and get to the bottom of this.

Back on track,
I run with no swaybars and have whiped it around while on the beach to see how it would react, Bottom line 30 to 40 MHP hard breaking and hard turn = no rolling or tire lift. although it did have a lot of body roll and the front liked to dive I was never felt out of control close to rolling the jeep.

I am also not sitting her trying to tell you that having no swaybars is the same as having them on. I am saying you can drive an XJ without sway bars and not flip you jeep on the 3 year old's friend while swerving to avoid him. Statistically this is an anomolly, I would be more worried about that lighting bolt headed your way.

And I am sure everyone here would never talk on cell phones while driving, always indicate a lane change for the full 3 seconds, and never ever speed.. Uummmm.
I figure that since you capitalized the pronouns in reference to this kid, it must be Jesus. He knows he can't be hurt running in front of Jeeps anyway.

[Lawn Cher']

I figure that since you capitalized the pronouns in reference to this kid, it must be Jesus. He knows he can't be hurt running in front of Jeeps anyway.

Jesus lives in Beezil's butt. How could he run out in front of a swaybar-less XJ disguised as a 3 year old? Certainly Beezil would notice and quickly build a tubular structure to somehow avert the disaster.

[Timber]

Jesus lives in Beezil's butt. How could he run out in front of a swaybar-less XJ disguised as a 3 year old? Certainly Beezil would notice and quickly build a tubular structure to somehow avert the disaster.
Ahh, sooo, Grasshopper; my mistake.

[OT]

Jesus lives in Beezil's butt. How could he run out in front of a swaybar-less XJ disguised as a 3 year old? Certainly Beezil would notice and quickly build a tubular structure to somehow avert the disaster.
Um, Mark, appearantly you didn't get the memo.
Jesus relocated to my ass.
He says he enjoys the religious debates on NAXJA.
And Beez just wasn't "doing it" for him.