BOTMW Run - Info thread

[Roxtar]

The descision has been made for the inaugural Best of the Midwest Run (That's the title untill I can think of a better one)
It will be held at FlatNasty ORP, June 2-4.
http://www.flatnasty.net/
Info on cost, lodging, etc will be posted as it becomes avail.
Here is a portion of the email I received from Ron Maximoff, owner of FlatNasty:

The park has 850 acres of moderate to steep hills and gullies along with dry creek bed trails. Our 25 trails that are currently open are rated Easy, Intermediate, or Extreme. The park leans heavily towards the intermediate and extreme which you won't see in one visit (some trails you may not even be able to complete), with enough easy to keep most drivers entertained. The easy trails are for the smaller tired vehicles but they're still trails, not logging roads, that have to be driven so no whining!! There will be plenty of trail guides available to show your groups around until you get used to the trail system. The trails are all marked and you will be given a color trail map at sign-up. Also, if anyone wishes to bring an ATV or motorcycle (we have a professionally designed motocross track in the park and ATV trails) they are required to wear a helmet.

We have 5 mountain lined meadows that we keep mowed for primitive camping equipped with porta-toilets, fire pits and free firewood. There's no electric or water. There are several full facility campgrounds in the area along with cabin rentals one mile from the entrance to the park. (This information will be made available on our web-site in the near future). We also have a new 2-bedroom, air conditioned, fully equipped log cabin in the park that rents for $100 per night.

We are 2 miles from the Currrent River, and have an agreement with Jadwin Canoe Rental that will pick your people up for a float trip down the Current River and then drop them back off at the park. Note: They are responsible for making their own arrangements--info about Jadwin Canoe Rental is available on our web-site at www.flatnasty.net.

We are located 15 miles from Salem with hospitals, 3 auto parts stores, restaurants, Wal-Mart, etc. There is a convenience store one mile from the entrance to the park which has gasoline, beer, liquor and camping supplies along with a small grill for a quick meal.

[IntrepidXJ]

Sounds good. now I got a question.

Obviously Brad, you have been to a BOTW event, and know how it works.

In the previous thread, there was some talk about there being trails for the less equipt vehicles.

Is this event going to focus on only one trail ride (difficult), or are there going to be different groups for different levels? It was my understanding that BOTW was focused on one group running difficult trails...but maybe I am wrong?

I know the details aren't worked out yet, so if you don't have an answer yet, that's cool....but kinda curious on your thoughts?

It seems that if there are multiple trail groups, there would be a lot more work involved in setting up this event.

[Roxtar]

Sounds good. now I got a question.

Obviously Brad, you have been to a BOTW event, and know how it works.

In the previous thread, there was some talk about there being trails for the less equipt vehicles.

Is this event going to focus on only one trail ride (difficult), or are there going to be different groups for different levels? It was my understanding that BOTW was focused on one group running difficult trails...but maybe I am wrong?

I know the details aren't worked out yet, so if you don't have an answer yet, that's cool....but kinda curious on your thoughts?

It seems that if there are multiple trail groups, there would be a lot more work involved in setting up this event.Good question Randy.
I think we can do multiple runs for different groups.
Since it isn't an official naxja event there are certain rules that we don't have to live with; one being the insistance on using only naxja members as trail leaders.
In the past this has made going to new venues, where we have limited knowledge, difficult.
Ron (the owner) has said he can supply us with experienced trail leaders if we need them.
That would make finding the right trail for the right group much easier.

[IntrepidXJ]

Good question Randy.
I think we can do multiple runs for different groups.
Since it isn't an official naxja event there are certain rules that we don't have to live with; one being the insistance on using only naxja members as trail leaders.
In the past this has made going to new venues, where we have limited knowledge, difficult.
Ron (the owner) has said he can supply us with experienced trail leaders if we need them.
That would make finding the right trail for the right group much easier.

ok, that sounds good....just wanted to get an idea on the direction of this event from the beginning :thumbup:

not sure how much help i can be, as i've never been there......but if you do need help, let me know and i'll see what i can do

[seanR]

May I chime in here?
If it is modeled after the BOTW,
shouldn't it be the BEST we have to offer?
Not to put you down Randy,
but shouldn't this be an extreme hard core run?
If someone showed up to BOTW with 30s and open diffs I dont think they would be any thing more than an observer, right?

I guess I was imagining something to entice some of the West coast guys out here to show them "what we got".

If there is a place that will accomidate different build levels, then this is a non point.
But if I went to BOTW and took the easy way around the trail, would I have really participated in the event, or would I have just been there?
I can see people wanting to come and watch or even wheel near by,
but I think we should focus on what the event really is,
An Extreme Hard Core event that most of us are unable to try.
Just my $0.02...

[IntrepidXJ]

shouldn't it be the BEST we have to offer?
Not to put you down Randy,
but shouldn't this be an extreme hard core run?


not putting me down....that's kind of what i was hoping for this event also.

I just wanted to know the direction of the event up front....cuz it will be harder to change it as gets closer

[Dirk Pitt]

May I chime in here?
If it is modeled after the BOTW,
shouldn't it be the BEST we have to offer?
Not to put you down Randy,
but shouldn't this be an extreme hard core run?
If someone showed up to BOTW with 30s and open diffs I dont think they would be any thing more than an observer, right?

I guess I was imagining something to entice some of the West coast guys out here to show them "what we got".

If there is a place that will accomidate different build levels, then this is a non point.
But if I went to BOTW and took the easy way around the trail, would I have really participated in the event, or would I have just been there?
I can see people wanting to come and watch or even wheel near by,
but I think we should focus on what the event really is,
An Extreme Hard Core event that most of us are unable to try.
Just my $0.02...

Would anyone mind if the smaller guys wanted to come anyway and ride some of those easy/moderate trails separate from the hardcore group?

Perhaps it could be considered a separate event called BOTMWJR??? :gag: "For the less than fully gettin' it MW crew" :laugh3: :laugh3:

Would a campfire require hardcore status as well?

Hell, I'd be almost as happy to walk the course and take pics anyway since I rarely get to see the more exciting, technical stuff. Ya gotta start somewhere right?

[seanR]

Would a campfire require hardcore status as well?
They wouldn't have a camp fire, they have 5 alarm barn fires!

[Lawn Cher']

Would anyone mind if the smaller guys wanted to come anyway and ride some of those easy/moderate trails separate from the hardcore group?

Perhaps it could be considered a separate event called BOTMWJR??? :gag: "For the less than fully gettin' it MW crew" :laugh3: :laugh3:

Would a campfire require hardcore status as well?

Hell, I'd be almost as happy to walk the course and take pics anyway since I rarely get to see the more exciting, technical stuff. Ya gotta start somewhere right?

We could have the Mediocre MidWest Mall Crawlers Crew (MMWMCC) show up and hold their own event simultaneously. Problem solved.

[Roxtar]

Hmmmm.
All valid points.

On one side the whole point of this was to do a more hardcore wheeling trip, in the spirit of BOTW.

On the other hand, it would be great to be able to include others in this event, especially since the venue we're going to is equipped for just that.

We need a sort of mission statement to define what the event is.

As I pictured this event, the primary goal should be to find the best hardcore destinations in the MWC.

However, I don't think adding the ability for lesser built vehicles to participate in the event will dilute the purpose of it IF that ability exists.
For instance a destination like this one where hardcore trails are side by side with lesser trails.
I also think it's a great opportunity for those not there yet to get a taste of the high end by shotgunning or walking the trails for a day.

The reason BOTW can't do this is because they aren't held at offroad parks. They are natural trails where there isn't a choice of hardcore or not.
If that is ever the case at this event then we'll have to limit it.

[XJ_ranger]

hmmm

June... June,... June... now way this could be moved ahead one month? May is right when i get out of school, and i plan on fully bashing my rig at an event such as this... though probably dont have the skills or tire size to properly do so...



maybe i can just fly home, wheel the smaller XJ in CA this summer, and keep the 92 out here... fly back out here, drive to MO...

the wheels in my head are turning...

[IntrepidXJ]

maybe i can just fly home, wheel the smaller XJ in CA this summer, and keep the 92 out here... fly back out here, drive to MO...

the wheels in my head are turning...

or you could just drive out to MO from CA :kissyou:

[Roxtar]

hmmm

June... June,... June... now way this could be moved ahead one month? May is right when i get out of school, and i plan on fully bashing my rig at an event such as this... though probably dont have the skills or tire size to properly do so...



maybe i can just fly home, wheel the smaller XJ in CA this summer, and keep the 92 out here... fly back out here, drive to MO...

the wheels in my head are turning...May is BOTW

[Dirk Pitt]

Hmmmm.
All valid points.

On one side the whole point of this was to do a more hardcore wheeling trip, in the spirit of BOTW.

On the other hand, it would be great to be able to include others in this event, especially since the venue we're going to is equipped for just that.

We need a sort of mission statement to define what the event is.

As I pictured this event, the primary goal should be to find the best hardcore destinations in the MWC.

However, I don't think adding the ability for lesser built vehicles to participate in the event will dilute the purpose of it IF that ability exists.
For instance a destination like this one where hardcore trails are side by side with lesser trails.
I also think it's a great opportunity for those not there yet to get a taste of the high end by shotgunning or walking the trails for a day.

The reason BOTW can't do this is because they aren't held at offroad parks. They are natural trails where there isn't a choice of hardcore or not.
If that is ever the case at this event then we'll have to limit it.


Now that I think about it, you are right.

This event should be to showcase the MW hardcore trails. One day the little Jeeps will grow up.

Winterfest is already an "all-inclusive" event catering to everyone and there will be other runs that will be also.

I'd still love to come anyway and shotgun or walk, like you said.

[Lawn Cher']

Where does one draw the line between hard-core and not?

[IntrepidXJ]

Where does one draw the line between hard-core and not?

i'd say it's different for everybody where that line is

[Dirk Pitt]

Probably should be a set of guidelines to determine hardcore-ness.

Like, locked front and rear, or one or the other. Skids on all vitals. Minimum tire size. Etc.

[Roxtar]

Now that I think about it, you are right.

This event should be to showcase the MW hardcore trails. One day the little Jeeps will grow up.

Winterfest is already an "all-inclusive" event catering to everyone and there will be other runs that will be also.

I'd still love to come anyway and shotgun or walk, like you said.I think you missed my point.
I think that it would be OK to allow lesser built rigs to participate IF they can be accomodated by the venue.
IOW, if the venue has both hardcore and easier trails avail.
FlatNasty IS such a site. Others may not be.

[Dirk Pitt]

I think you missed my point.
I think that it would be OK to allow lesser built rigs to participate IF they can be accomodated by the venue.
IOW, if the venue has both hardcore and easier trails avail.
FlatNasty IS such a site. Others may not be.

Gotcha.

[IntrepidXJ]

Probably should be a set of guidelines to determine hardcore-ness.

Like, locked front and rear, or one or the other. Skids on all vitals. Minimum tire size. Etc.

here's the requirements set by goatman for BOTW


Here's the basic equipment requirements. 33" tires minimum, two lockers, no D35's, no 260x front axle joints, no stock gears, low t-case gears with a stick, axle joints must have full circle clips or welded caps. Spicer front axles not recommended with 35" tires, and not allowed with over 35" tires, unless it's a D60. 8.25's are Ok for 35's with alloy axles. D44's recomend alloy shafts with 35's, must have alloy shafts over 35's. No stock steering with 35" tires or larger, and not recommended with 33's. The proper skid plates, body armor, spare tire, spare parts, and winch are assumed. Winch cable must be poly rope or be free of kinks if wire rope. Oh, and you need to have a thick skin

[Roxtar]

here's the requirements set by goatman for BOTWNot mentioned is an acceptance of body and mechanical damage.

[IntrepidXJ]

Not mentioned is an acceptance of body and mechanical damage.

:thumbup:

[xj4life]

this sounds like a really good event. i hope can make it one way or another. :thumbup:

[HaleYes]

Why not make this thing official? Would it be better off to go unofficial this go around and maybe go official next year? I wouldn't consider my rig as "hardcore"(yet:D0) but I'd like to walk/shotgun if I can make it. And, if it's decided to let the MMWMCC participate, I'd do so too. No hard feelings from here if it's decided to go Big Bad and Beefy rigs only. I understand.

I think the whole thing is a great way for us MMWMCC guys to see some of the nastier suff we don't normally see. I'm kinda excited about the whole thing. Hope I can make it.

[wheelchairman]

sweet a 45 min drive


see ya in june and in febuary :)

[XJ_ranger]

here's the requirements set by goatman for BOTW

looks like i need a winch and a teralow... hmm...

[IntrepidXJ]

looks like i need a winch and a teralow... hmm...

i just threw those up there as a guide....i'm sure we can use them as a starting point for our event and modify them as we see fit.

[BOB]

I would like to suggest Brad oversee the entire outing.
Brad could have two co-leaders. Randy as head of the Hardcore group and possibly Adam as head of the "other" group. Two groups wheeling the same weekend, at the same place, just different trails. This way Brad could manage the entire outing and not be overwhelmed trying to cater to two groups with different needs.
just an idea.
...BOB

[Lawn Cher']

Confucius say, "BOB have good idea."

[XJ_ranger]

what up with this?
:D

http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?p=657002

[allthingsoffroad]

ok all i wnat to know is will we get BOTMW stickers? because if i drive Total Est. Time: 9 hours, 55 minutes Total Est. Distance: 543.13 miles then i want a sticker :) will see i might come

[Roxtar]

ok all i wnat to know is will we get BOTMW stickers? because if i drive Total Est. Time: 9 hours, 55 minutes Total Est. Distance: 543.13 miles then i want a sticker :) will see i might comeNot impressive enough.
We've got guys that drive farther to wheel the Badlands.

[Roxtar]

Why not make this thing official? Would it be better off to go unofficial this go around and maybe go official next year? Can you possibly imagine the powers that be at naxja knowingly allowing ME to organize an official event?! :laugh2:

With NAXJA's stamp of approval?:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:

[Lawn Cher']

Oh ye of little faith.

[IntrepidXJ]

i think keeping it unofficial is best. not only does it make putting the event together a little easier (especially somewhere that no members have ever been to yet).....i feel there should only really be a few big events throughout the year that are official....if there are a bunch of smaller ones, it kind of waters down the experience IMO.

besides, BOTW is not official either....and we are kind of modeling this event after that one.

my 2 cents :)

[HaleYes]

You guys are probably right.

I was just brain storming.

[Roxtar]

I posted this on the other thread but it applies here too:

These are some of the reasons BOTW has never been made an official event.
There are too many rules that just can't be followed with this type of event.
Plus, you end up having to deal with the input and opinions of people who have no business in it.
I say leave it unofficial, sort of an annual MWC outlaw event.
Besides, wouldn't it be kinda fitting if our marque event wasn't recognized by the mothership?

[IntrepidXJ]

I was just brain storming.

i think that's what we are all doing at this point :D

[HaleYes]

I posted this on the other thread but it applies here too:

These are some of the reasons BOTW has never been made an official event.
There are too many rules that just can't be followed with this type of event.
Plus, you end up having to deal with the input and opinions of people who have no business in it.
I say leave it unofficial, sort of an annual MWC outlaw event.
Besides, wouldn't it be kinda fitting if our marque event wasn't recognized by the mothership?

Outlaw..... I think that needs to be in the event name somehow.

All good points Brad.

[Captain Ron]

Can you possibly imagine the powers that be at naxja knowingly allowing ME to organize an official event?! :laugh2:

With NAXJA's stamp of approval?:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:

There's a first for eveything.

But, you're probably right, you ain't it. :D

--ron

[seanR]

I have just cleared out my PM box.....
I am here waiting......

[Roxtar]

Official thread:
http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=75828