Axle Shaft / Hub Removal Prob's

[Rusty XJ]

Getting ready to have my gears and a locker setup in the front of my 88 XJ (Dana 30) and we're having a lot of difficulty removing the Axle shaft / hub.

We began by pulling the three 13mm 12pt bolts from the back and thought we would pull the entire assembly with the hub attached. After no luck, we thought perhaps the shaft was holding the hub back. After removing the nut that holds the hub in place we still had no luck.

Lots of PB, a big hammer and a prybar and three pretty big guys slamming the crap out of a slide hammer for about an hour and this thing still won't come out.

I'm afraid to use heat on the back of the hub where it attaches to the knuckle for fear that it might mess up the bearings...

Anyone have any suggestions to help us out?

Thanks

Josh

[ChiXJeff]

<sigh> Getting hubs out of a D30 has been discussed a LOT here. A search would give you a bunch of hits. There's also a write-up on u-joint replacement in the members only tech that will help you out.

If you've used a slide hammer on the studs, you've probably ruined the hub.

It's the outer race that's being held in place, not the inner. There's a number of different ways of getting it out, most of them put pressure on the 3 13mm bolts. Screw them in most of the way, but don't seat them all the way, make sure there's a gap between the flange and seating surface. Pound on the head with a small sledge (okay, the biggest one you can get in there,) maybe protect the head with a sacrificial socket if you don't have extra bolts. Trust me on this, you *WILL* mushroom the heads. An alternative that I haven't personally tried is to use a socket and extension to brace against something and use the power steering to pop it out.

[ghettocruiser]

Fun stuff. Not sure how you were using the slide hammer... but if you were tugging on the flange (where the wheel studs are) thats not the best idea. I was taking the axle out of a junker once and those uni-bearings will come apart...or get damaged. There are plenty of methods on there... One is to use a socket, that you dont care about, and put it on those hub bolts in the back of the spindle. Tap at those from behind while the bolts are threaded in a good bit. That never worked for me.

The only way I ever had luck with mine, was to use a chisel, and carefully work at where the hub meets the spindle. I usually put some good marks on the dust shield that way, but no big deal. Just work your way around and dont get it crooked or it will make it hard to get out.

Oh...and once you get her apart...put some anti-seize on that hub assembly where it bolts into the spindle. I can get my bearings off iwth just a couple taps and it makes it much easier next time.

I know that wasnt much help... hopefully you get it. Its probably the only frustrating part of taking apart a D30...

Justin


(edit... guess we were both typing that at the same time. never thought of using the power steering to help push them out...might be worth a try )

[Rusty XJ]

Well, it's pretty much decided that using the slide hammer is cumbersome... so, we won't be doing that anymore. Had no idea that it could damage the hub. We were only working on the Driver's side and only with the slide hammer for a little while...

Also, I have the vacuum disconnect on the other side... is there anything I should be conscious of when disconnecting this side?

Thanks again...

[ChiXJeff]

You run a pretty good risk of ruining a bearing if you pull on the race that's NOT stuck. This transmits force through the rolling elements.

Nothing to worry about with the vacuum disconnect, the shaft is just a little short.

[allthingsoffroad]

chisel and mini sledge and did you remove the breaks :)

[Rusty XJ]

We quit taking "breaks" we were working pretty solid...

And, yes... we did remove the "brakes"...

[Rusty XJ]

An alternative that I haven't personally tried is to use a socket and extension to brace against something and use the power steering to pop it out.

Not exactly sure what you guys are talking about here... need some elaboration please. :)

We did try hammering on the 13mm bolts for a couple of minutes... but after a little mushrooming we gave up.

[badge714]

http://www.off-road.com/jeep/cherokee/2001/02_feb/bearing/ Here is a site that may help you out. badge714
jeepman600@sbcglobal.net

[badge714]

http://www.jeeping.net/mambo/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=20&Itemid=47 Check this one also badge714

[markw]

Argh... Needle nose pliers to remove cotter pins?? Sidecutters, aka dykes are the best tool for removing cotter pins. Pulls them right out and screws them up enough that you don't even think about reusing them. :)

[ExTankerGuy]

Argh... Needle nose pliers to remove cotter pins?? Sidecutters, aka dykes are the best tool for removing cotter pins. Pulls them right out and screws them up enough that you don't even think about reusing them. :)

Huh? WTF man! The cotter pin has been removed. (duh!) We're talking about something a little more in depth than swapping cotter pins.....:wierd:

[markw]

Was refering to the writeup that was linked, guy was pulling the cotter pin with needle nose pliers. Sorry. As for beating the hub off, good luck. Out here on the west coast they come off pretty easy since we don't have to deal with salty roads.

[Matthew Currie]

I've had varying degrees of trouble with these. One possibility is to use a big lead hammer on the flange (yes, I know it's rough on the bearing, but there it is), just to try to crack the rust bond loose. If you get even a tiny bit of movement, the next step is to douse it with penetrant, kerosene, diesel, thin oil or whatever, and hammer the whole thing back in, and repeat at different flange positions. Similarly, if you're using a slide hammer, don't be afraid to pound the hub back in if you get even the slightest bit of movement. The more it moves the looser it will become, and it really doesn't matter which direction it's moving. Try to keep the movement straight, and if it starts getting cocked, hammer it back in again. Once you have broken the initial rust bond, you have won. It just takes time for it to surrender.

I have not had any luck at all with the recommended technique of hammering on the bolts on the back, just ended up mangling them. If the hub is very rusted, beware of hitting these bolts so hard they bend in the holes and jam.

[sflier]

Try to keep the movement straight, and if it starts getting cocked, hammer it back in again. Once you have broken the initial rust bond, you have won. It just takes time for it to surrender

Great advice ... similar technique for pulling a brake drum off a rusty hub. If you get it cocked, it ain't coming off until you center it again.

[ECKSJAY]

Was refering to the writeup that was linked, guy was pulling the cotter pin with needle nose pliers.

Oh, the nerve of them! I won't be able to sleep tonight.

[Rusty XJ]

Anybody have any ideas on using the power steering to push out the hub? Not sure I understand how that would work entirely...

[AZ Jeff]

[QUOTE=Matthew Currie] Once you have broken the initial rust bond, you have won. It just takes time for it to surrender.
QUOTE]
Another VERY reliable technique is to lay enough HEAT on the flange of the hub where is mates with the bore in the knuckle to break the rust loose. Unfortunately, this usually means more heat than a plain old propane torch can generate, and involves the use of oxy-acetylene torches.

Yeah, you might end up cooking the hub seals, and thus necessitating replacing the hub, but it beats the alternative of a stuck hub.

[Rusty XJ]

The BIG F'N HAMMER WINS!!!

Thanks Tyson!

[kloker]

I'm in the process of doing my front brakes right now, and I'm replacing the shields, hub bolts, calipers, caliper bolts, rotors, pads, and all the lines, hard and soft. I bought my XJ just recently from a UT student here in Austin, and he's from New Hampshire, so I have a lot of rust to deal with underneath. Though the body was well undercoated when new, the suspension, etc., of course, was not. So as I go along, I'm replacing everything with new bolts.

I got started on the hubs yesterday. Got the drivers' side off, no problem. I had some difficulty with the bolts, as the ends were seriously rusted, which made it difficult to get them out through the threads. Then I used a chisel and big hammer to get the hub off. It was not easy, but easier than the bolts. I screwed up the old shields, but they were pretty rough anyway, and I have new ones. It took about an hour of careful pounding and working it out, but gradually it did come right out. Then I used a tap to clean out the threads, and it will go back in with anit-seize. Also I cleaned up the hub and it's contact "lip" with a drill/wire brush and file, as well as the area it goes back into on the knuckle/spindle thingie. Unforunately, on the passenger side I'm stuck, at the moment. Got two of the bolts out, but the third is turning into a problem. I can get a good hold on it with my 12-point 13mm wrench, but the socket is rolling/slipping. Can't get it to break loose. I broke my wrench using a cheater. Dangit! So I soaked it with PB Blaster last night before I quit for the night. Today, I'll run over to Sears and pick up some more tools, like a 1/2" drive 13mm socket (6- and 12-point if possible, don't know if the 6-point will fit but it's worth a try), and a set of the Craftsman Bolt-out sockets I've been wanting anyways. If I can just get that bolt out of there I'll be back in business. If not, I guess I'll have to back up ten yards and punt. I'll have to put it back together and take it to a well equipped shop and pay to get that one removed. But I'll give it the best I can do first.

The really fun thing is that I know I got myself into this knowingly, buying a New Hampshire vehicle. Oh, well, I got it cheap, and now I'm paying. I'll be doing a rear disk conversion and a lift too, so the fun is gonna last a long time like a tootsie roll, eh? Wish me luck.

[1996cc]

Just turn the "wheels" all the way one direction. Then hit the yoke ears of the outer axle shaft. It will pop out in less than 5 hits with a 3 lb. sledge (as long as you're hitting it right. Works like magic.

[duke000088]

Is it dangerous to use a 3 jaw gear puller (5-10 ton) to remove the hubs? Of the many techniques, this one is rarely mentioned. I saw it on the jeep.off-road write-up. I rented one from AZ... looks very easy... but I worry about the driver pin mangling my stub axle (although the end of the axle appears to have a recess that is perfect for a puller (the, uhm, "pointy" end of the driving pin). Is the stub axle "hardened"... perhaps I should stick an old socket on the end just for insurance.

Is pulling on that outer flange (where the studs attached) bad for the bearing? Even if it is, is it OK if I intend to swap in a shiny new hub when I finally get this old one out?

I'm hoping the socket/extension/spark plug wedgie maneaver will work for me. But I do have this cool puller here and it just looks like so much fun (can you tell I've never used a puller?)

[Blaine B.]

Was refering to the writeup that was linked, guy was pulling the cotter pin with needle nose pliers. Sorry. As for beating the hub off, good luck. Out here on the west coast they come off pretty easy since we don't have to deal with salty roads.


I always have too.

[Matthew Currie]

Is it dangerous to use a 3 jaw gear puller (5-10 ton) to remove the hubs? Of the many techniques, this one is rarely mentioned. I saw it on the jeep.off-road write-up. I rented one from AZ... looks very easy... but I worry about the driver pin mangling my stub axle (although the end of the axle appears to have a recess that is perfect for a puller (the, uhm, "pointy" end of the driving pin). Is the stub axle "hardened"... perhaps I should stick an old socket on the end just for insurance.

Is pulling on that outer flange (where the studs attached) bad for the bearing? Even if it is, is it OK if I intend to swap in a shiny new hub when I finally get this old one out?

I'm hoping the socket/extension/spark plug wedgie maneaver will work for me. But I do have this cool puller here and it just looks like so much fun (can you tell I've never used a puller?)
I don't know whether it's dangerous, but it's uncomfortable, because you're forcing the axle shaft into the tube against...well, what are you forcing it against? I don't know, something inside the differential, I guess, but it doesn't really provide a very positive feeling, kind of mushy, and one of the things between the puller and whatever it's pushing against is the universal joint. I tried it once with an axle puller (the kind that attaches to the studs, very powerful) but backed off. I think if it's stuck enough to need a puller, it's probably not going to come off comfortably with a jaw type puller.

[Blaine B.]

Picture of said puller?

The only puller I can imaging seeing is the type of puller than would pull the outer "hub" off by pushing against the shaft.

Then you'd get to the bearings inside of the hub. Which aren't servicable. And then you'd still be left with the backside of the hub attached to the knuckle...which doesn't get you any closer to removing it.

[Matthew Currie]

Picture of said puller?

The only puller I can imaging seeing is the type of puller than would pull the outer "hub" off by pushing against the shaft.

Then you'd get to the bearings inside of the hub. Which aren't servicable. And then you'd still be left with the backside of the hub attached to the knuckle...which doesn't get you any closer to removing it.

Here's a link that shows one type of these pullers. I don't know what's made nowadays, or what can be rented. Sears used to sell them. My old Scout had tapered axle shafts, and the brake drums were integral with the hubs, just like that old Plymouth, so this was the only tool with which it was possible to work on the rear brakes. The hammer wrench was an integral part of the design, because those tapers were tight enough to break even a big wrench just trying to twist the puller. Needless to say, the puller itself was very strong, and made of very tough stuff.

My worry using this on a Jeep front axle is that the puller is strong enough to break anything but itself, so if there's a possibility of damage caused by forcing the axle shaft into the differential case (remember it just floats on splines) the puller will simply do the damage without warning.

edited to add: duh, I forgot the link, didn't I? http://www.plymouthbulletin.com/rearbrakes.htm

[duke000088]

Yes, damage to the differential was exactly what I was thinking too. The puller I got at Autozone was similar to what's shown in the link but it has three jaws that just hook around the flange that the studs are in. In theory, it would work but the central pin of the puller pushes on the axle shaft... and the force is therefore being transmitted to, as Matthew said, who-knows-where inside the pumpkin. I backed off too once I realized how the forces were pushing.

In a typical case of hub removal, the turn-the-wheel trick is pretty neat once the rust bond broken or weak.

My hub was frozen on due to one of the hub/knuckle bolts being TOTALLY seized in the bore of the knuckle (the 12pt head snapped off after one crank of the ratchet). There was NO WAY to pull that hub out. Had to hacksaw the bolt between the hub and knuckle and then get a machine shop too press the rusted hub bolt (100-ton press!) out of the knuckle. I haven't seen anyone talk about this particular type of problem with this job... it is probably rare but worth mentioning in case someone else runs into it.

[FlexdXJ]

just hit it with a sledge a few billion times and it will come right off. seriously it should not take too much effort to remove them

[Matthew Currie]

just hit it with a sledge a few billion times and it will come right off. seriously it should not take too much effort to remove themHA!

Should not and will not do not always coincide. My son had one that was rusted in so badly that the bolts would not turn, not to mention that the hub wouldnt' come off. I had to torch the ears off the hub to pull it, heat the knuckle, and then burn one of the bolts out with a torch because I could not even punch the stub out. I've had them look clean and take an hour to get off, and look rotten and rusty and awful and practically fall out. You never know.

[David Rizor]

Snap-on offers an air hammer bit that you can put an impact socket on.Loosen the bolts with a breaker bar turn them out about 3/8”. Then push them out with the Air Hammer. Pulling on the hub will ruin the wheel bearing maybe not right away but it will speed the ware. Defiantly use anti-seize!