A wall on the 49th parallel...

[Beej]

So the House of Representatives just amended a bill that includes an initiative to study the construction of a physical security wall along the US - Canada border.

So, what do y'all think of this? Pros and cons, considerations, yadda yadda yadda...

To start, I'm aware that there are some concerns about potential terrorist threats using Canada as a back door to gain entry into the US, but I have no idea how well founded they are.

My first question aside from feasibility is what's it gonna cost and who's gonna pay?

Next, what's it really going to accomplish?

[OT]

You guys should be happy.

I think it's good against the terrorism, but bad for already fairly good relations in general.

[Beej]

Funny, but I guess I'm not too happy. I'm pretty proud of the world's longest undefended border. Its fun to joke about it, but I like being next to the States. You guys are by far our most alike neighbor or country for that matter. I don't know, there's just got to be a better way to fight terrorism...

[5-90]

Sure there is - empower the individual in his own defense.

As far as I'm concerned, the law ought to be "Carry what you want, when you want, and where you want - we're only going to bother you when you use it to make sure you used it right!"

Got a link for this "wall" thing?

5-90

[Gil BullyKatz]

Is this because terrorists find it easier to sneak across from Canada than from Mexico?

The level of genius at the legislative level is baffling...

Can't they just fess up to not liking canucks?

On the upside...

Maybe this will prevent another Celine Dion export

[8Mud]

You really have to wonder whether it is to keep other people out, or the USA Americans in.
It really doesn't take much of a memory, to see the parallels to the old Soviet Union and what the US seems to be heading for.
For years, many of the politicians where deriding the godless Soviets.
For years the politicians were deriding the Soviet state, raising the next generation of youngsters, instead of the parents.
For years the politicians were deriding the Soviet union for locking there people in. The Soviets always said they were locking the decadent west out.
The list goes on and on.
What's the old saying, when you point a finger, there are three fingers pointing back at you.
The middle easterners also struck me as a little weird. They build 8-9 foot walls around there houses. I always wondered why. Maybe they have a tradition of petty thieves, they have to fence out. Spending your life looking at the inside of a wall, seems more than a little silly to me.
It really doesn't bring any security, it just blocks the fields of fire.
I do some fence and lock work. I always marvel at peoples preconceptions. Some people who live a really organized/sheltered lives, actually look at a four foot fence as protection and a barrier.
I once took down about a hundred yards of a 12 foot fence in half a day, so they could put up a 15 foot fence. In somebodies mind, 15 feet was more protection that 12 feet.. And it never dawned on them, I took down a 15 foot section every ten minutes or so. With hand tools, a pick up truck and a chain. I didn't destroy the fence either, I rolled it in sections, rather neatly. And resold it to someone, who thought it would offer protection.
I seriously think, whomever makes these decisions, should be required to prove they took, understood and passed a history course. Even recent history seems to escape them.
Terminal arrogance, is just as deadly, as terminal ignorance.
I once built a high security room, to a customers specifications. He was rather adamant about me following the plans exactly, made it pretty clear he wasn't interested in my input. He had specifications and directives to follow.
Typically when the room was finished, nobody could find the keys. I was inside in minutes and didn't destroy or disassemble anything that couldn't be fixed in minutes. Somebody designed the reinforced walls, so they only went as high as the drop ceiling.
What's next, mine fields between Mexico, Canada and the US? Silly people.
Just for point of reality, every night two or three hundred people make it throught the English channel tunnel. Or into the Spanish/moroccan enclaves over a double 15 foot fence, with razor wire on top. Covered by cameras and patroled by dogs.
Sure they are gonna secure a 2000 mile (or whatever) border. I think silly is a bit to mild of an adjective.

[old_man]

I say 54'40 or fight.

[Gridikal]

I say 54'40 or fight.
My only concern is...


Would that make Beej a resident? :D

[old_man]

Nix that.

[westsacxj]

so a wall is all it takes to stop terrorists?

[Beej]

Got a link for this "wall" thing? It seems to be hot news up here, but I didn't see anything about it on the American stations...

Toronto Star Story (http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1134859819229&call_pageid=968332188492&col=968793972154&t=TS_Home)

[Beej]

I say 54'40 or fight.Hey! The 1846 Oregon Treaty still stands today...
ARTICLE I. From the point of the forty-ninth parallel of north latitude, where the boundary laid down in existing treaties and conventions between the United States and Great Britain terminates, the line of boundary between the territories of the United States and those of her Britannic Majesty shall be continued westward along the said forty-ninth parallel of north latitude to the middle of the channel which separates the continent from Vancouver's Island, and thence southerly through the middle of the said channel, and of Fuca's Straits, to the Pacific Ocean: Provided, however, That the navigation of the whole of the said channel and straits, south of the forty-ninth parallel of north latitude, remain free and open to both parties.

ARTICLE II. From the point at which the forty-ninth parallel of north latitude shall be found to intersect the great northern branch of the Columbia River, the navigation of the said branch shall be free and open to the Hudson's Bay Company, and to all British subjects trading with the same, to the point where the said branch meets the main stream of the Columbia, and thence down the said main stream to the ocean, with free access into and through the said river or rivers, it being understood that all the usual portages along the line thus described shall, in like manner, be free and open. In navigating the said river or rivers, British subjects, with their goods and produce, shall be treated on the same footing as citizens of the United States; it being, however, always understood that nothing in this article shall be construed as preventing, or intended to prevent, the government of the United States from making any regulations respecting the navigation of the said river or rivers not inconsistent with the present treaty.

ARTICLE III. In the future appropriation of the territory south of the forty-ninth parallel of north latitude, as provided in the first article of this treaty, the possessory rights of the Hudson's Bay Company, and of all British subjects who may be already in the occupation of land or other property lawfully acquired within the said territory, shall be respected...



You guys can deny me all you want, the fact is, a few generations ago, my family called the States home. Face it, I'm one of yours...
:D

[OT]

It seems to be hot news up here, but I didn't see anything about it on the American stations...

Toronto Star Story (http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1134859819229&call_pageid=968332188492&col=968793972154&t=TS_Home)
That reads like a liberal brainwashing.

[Kejtar]

My first question aside from feasibility is what's it gonna cost and who's gonna pay?

I guess we will have to open up our southern border and hire a lot of fairly inexpensive labour :D
Anyways, I'd rather have the House of Representatives ponder building a wall rather then prohibition :cheers:

[Darky]

good, keep ya limey transplants out...





:D
In all seriousness though, I think its both a good and a bad idea. Good if it slows any terrorists, wasn't it said that the 9/11 hijackers came through Canada? Bad because its sure to cost a lot of money, we have good relations with Canada overall, even if they do follow our president around to protest him when he visits...;)

Mud, the difference between us and the Soviets is that even with the fences and such between us and Mexico, we can still leave whenever we want. There is nothing keeping us in.

[Beej]

That reads like a liberal brainwashing.Really? Jeez, and I always thought the Star was pretty conservative...
:D
Mud, the difference between us and the Soviets is that even with the fences and such between us and Mexico, we can still leave whenever we want. There is nothing keeping us in. YET!

[8Mud]

good, keep ya limey transplants out...





:D
In all seriousness though, I think its both a good and a bad idea. Good if it slows any terrorists, wasn't it said that the 9/11 hijackers came through Canada? Bad because its sure to cost a lot of money, we have good relations with Canada overall, even if they do follow our president around to protest him when he visits...;)

Mud, the difference between us and the Soviets is that even with the fences and such between us and Mexico, we can still leave whenever we want. There is nothing keeping us in.

The Soviets, always told there people the fences and mine fields, were there to keep the west out.
Who knows what the real agenda is. As soon as I hear a statement from a politician, I let my mind run wild. And the most far out thought, that pops into my mind, usually turns out to be closer to the truth, than what I was told.
I was back and forth across the iron curtain on numerous occasions. Sometimes I didn't even know, which side of the border I was on. Believe what you will, the truth is sometimes stranger than fiction.
I have a lot (I mean a bunch) of relatives in the border patrol. Sit around a Bar-B-Que sometime with them and listen.
Politicians making noise and directing attention in another direction. Usually to mask, something else, much more ominous.
They are gonna put up a fence to keep the terrorists out. But not stop or even slow down tourism.
There are something like 12,000,000 Muslims living in Germany. 1% (probable serious nut cases) is 120,000, that the last time I checked, didn't even need a visa to get in the states. Even if they weren't Muslim, the standard psychological bell curve, says 360,000 are psychopathic.
OK lets build a fence. Good idea, the little old ladies will sleep better at night.

[Darky]

I've been across the border quite a few times, north and south...If you're crossing somewhere other than the middle of the desert (down here in the south) or whatever it is you have vast empty spaces of up north (I forgot, its been a while since living up there), its pretty easy to cross. Its that whole sneaking across thru the desert and dying halfway across thing that they don't like too much here

[XJourney]

The US goverment doesn't want us to know about the REAL beer they have in Canada.

I really don't see the need. They have night vision and thermo camera every 1/4 mile. Ground listening devices, nuclear sencing equipment. Numerous airplanes that fly 24 hrs a day. You can't even drive on a border road without seeing a Border Patrol. They have a high tech wall, do they really need a physical wall? For it to do any good it would need to be 12 ft tall made of cement with razor wire on top. But then people would just tunnel, they already do.

If a terrorist wants across they are probably going to go through a border crossing. They stand a better chance there then trying to sneak pass all the cameras. That is how most of the drugs come in. If they can smuggle in 1000 lbs of pot they can get a 160lb terrorist through the border crossings. Or buy off a BP officer, they live in middle class, I am sure that a million dollars would get anything you wanted across.

Plus it would block my view of Grouse Mountain.

By the way Beej do you live below the 49th parallel(Victoria) Oh and stop dumping your sewage in my ocean :)

[ECKSJAY]

Oh and stop dumping your sewage and chemicals from your numerous lumber mills and refineries in my ocean :)

Ammended that for ya, Hans. :D

[AZ XJ]

That wall is gonna be on the wrong end of the country. Put that thing along the US/Mexican border and do us all a favor. Canadians kick ass.

[MudDawg]

See...this is what happens when two open and free democratic countries share a border...there is no concrete answer to the question...for every defence there is a countermeasure. A physical wall would be little more than an inconvienence...and certainly no barrier to a determined terrorist.

It's kinda like down here when the word came out that the terrorists that did the 9/11 thing learned to fly at a Florida flight school...was it the fault of the flight school?? Was it the fault of Canada for letting some of them cross the border...Was it the fault of the airport security guy that let two of them on a plane when their paperwork was wrong and the way they were acting SCREAMED terrorist??

OK...now my head aches...I'm gonna go clean my weapons.

[8Mud]

I guess putting a million dollars into every five miles of fence (that probably isn't gonna keep a determined person out anyhow) is a good investment in Americas future.
It kind of sounds like a road that goes nowhere or a dam nobody wants or has a use for anyway.
Can you smell PORK?
I'm not normally high on animal rights, but fences are the exception. If you build them on traditional migration routes, it really screws up the eco system.
I've seen Deer beat themselves to death trying to get through a fence, built on a migration route.
The Elk almost became extinct, because of fences.
One of these days, the asshats are gonna succeed in fencing in everything and then covering it in concrete.

[Bent]

So the House of Representatives just amended a bill that includes an initiative to study the construction of a physical security wall along the US - Canada border.

So, what do y'all think of this?

.
Fish are so dumb.


Not much for me to add here.

[Bent]

So the House of Representatives just amended a bill that includes an initiative to study the construction of a physical security wall along the US - Canada border.

So, what do y'all think of this?


Fish are so dumb.


That pretty well covers it.

[8Mud]

I pretty much think the same thing as the fence with Mexico, let the women in and make the guys fill out paperwork (forever).

[AZ XJ]

I pretty much think the same thing as the fence with Mexico, let the women in and make the guys fill out paperwork (forever).


Why let the women in? So they can come have tons of children without a father and drain the welfare money so that people who actually need it can't get it? Or so they can take their Wick checks that are suppose to be for groceries and cash them to buy beer and cigarettes? No thanks bud.

[ECKSJAY]

Ditch welfare and make charity voluntary.

[Gil BullyKatz]

I pretty much think the same thing as the fence with Mexico, let the women in and make the guys fill out paperwork (forever).


Why let the women in? So they can come have tons of children without a father and drain the welfare money so that people who actually need it can't get it? Or so they can take their Wick checks that are suppose to be for groceries and cash them to buy beer and cigarettes? No thanks bud.


hu·mor (hymr) KEY

NOUN:

The quality that makes something laughable or amusing; funniness: could not see the humor of the situation.
That which is intended to induce laughter or amusement: a writer skilled at crafting humor.
The ability to perceive, enjoy, or express what is amusing, comical, incongruous, or absurd. See Synonyms at wit 1.
One of the four fluids of the body, blood, phlegm, choler, and black bile, whose relative proportions were thought in ancient and medieval physiology to determine a person's disposition and general health.
Physiology
A body fluid, such as blood, lymph, or bile.
Aqueous humor.
Vitreous humor.
A person's characteristic disposition or temperament: a boy of sullen humor.
An often temporary state of mind; a mood: I'm in no humor to argue.

A sudden, unanticipated whim. See Synonyms at mood 1.
Capricious or peculiar behavior.
TRANSITIVE VERB:
hu·mored , hu·mor·ing , hu·mors
To comply with the wishes or ideas of; indulge.
To adapt or accommodate oneself to. See Synonyms at pamper.

IDIOM:
out of humor
In a bad mood; irritable.

[0313]

Maybe they want the wall up so when we steal Canada's oil its easier to defend them from trying to get it back.

[8Mud]

Why let the women in? So they can come have tons of children without a father and drain the welfare money so that people who actually need it can't get it? Or so they can take their Wick checks that are suppose to be for groceries and cash them to buy beer and cigarettes? No thanks bud.

Irony, covert sarcasm, ridicule in the guise of a compliment or praise. Mode of speech meaning the opposite of what is said. Outcome of a situation which is the reverse of what is expected.

Example. When a Frenchman says, I wish they would throw all the tourists out of France. And you answer, what would the France do for the next generation of Frenchman, without tourists?
Example. When a Texan says, we should throw all the Wet Backs out of Texas and his buddy says, they aren't wet backs, they are your kids coming home for a visit.

[MyJeepXJ]

Wrong place, they need to go South and build the way to divide us from Mexico. I dont recall Canadians leeching off the US.

[Gil BullyKatz]

Wrong place, they need to go South and build the way to divide us from Mexico. I dont recall Canadians leeching off the US.

Ironic that you mention leeching with over 200 posts and your name in black...

[Dookie]

i'm not reading all that.

but a wall separating us from canadia is the stupidest thing EVAR.