Gl-5 in my AX-15... how bad is this?

[TrainedMonkey]

the shop put gl-5 in my 98' ax-15 (it was free, long story)
Its been a week and I though it was just the cold at first, but basically I have no synchros for first or second (arguments with the shop are ongoing).

Should this be fixed immediatly, or can i wait another week to get redline fluid.

[muddshutter]

Did the shop drop the tranny and open it up?

If they openned it, what was the report on the sycro's?
Its a pretty simple tranny to work on. Anytime that we have had problems with a manual tranny, we just crack it open and take a peek inside.

If it has not been openned, you may decide to pop it open and put a seal and syncro kit in it, about $140 for parts on Ebay. It comes in a kit and its very simple to take apart and put back together. You also use 5 or so tools that can be picked up at Sears for under $50. If you are close to 24060, i would be happy to help you?

I would also hassle the dealer a little as well. Talk to the repair dept Manager if you beleive that they did not fix your problem. They are a business and want you back for other stuff. As long as you are civil, there is usually a way of working things out.

noah

[martin]

Do a search there been a lot of posts about GL-3 vs GL-5 in manual transmissions. You need to check the owner's manual of the vehicle and see what they call out.

When you read all the posts you will have a much better insight into the issue.

[bajacalal]

GL5 in an ax-15 is a no-no. I swear the manufacturers do things like this intentionally to get you to buy an auto. Anyway, I had gl-5 in there for about a week oe 2. The 2nd gear wouldn't shift right but I changed to Redline mt-90 which helped greatly and the problems mostly went away. I also put 1 bottle (8 oz I think) of Lubeguard gear fluid supplement.

Shifts smooth but its still just a bit difficult to get into second when cold it worked out all right with the Redline MT-90 I buy it at http://www.summitracing.com/

[TrainedMonkey]

Haha, well, they changed the fluid in the tranny since they were so slow putting in the new clutch. The tranny was 100% fine before.

I did all the research, thats how I found out the put the wrong lube in.... but I saw nothing on if the problem is reversable, or if the gl-5 does permenent damage.

[bajacalal]

It does long term permanent damage but my gut experience (not researched) is that it also doesn't have the right friction properties for the AX15 synchros and hard shifting occurs before major damage because the synchros slip. Change the fluid asap to minimize damage.

[TrainedMonkey]

bajacalal, thats the answer i was looking for

thanks everyone

[Matthew Currie]

bajacalal, thats the answer i was looking for

thanks everyone

My 95 had a lot of miles with GL-5 before I put in synthetic, and despite the awful shifting and the alarming amount of bronze that came out when I changed it, it's been fine for well over a hundred thousand miles since then, so I think if it's working now you can relax.

[scorpio_vette]

i'm just curious where your getting your information from. my books for my XJ and TJ say the AX-15 uses GL-5. i have also done several tranny flushes on my jeeps using GL-5 and never had any problems. after about 130,000 miles with extensive offroading, i also had a little problems with shifting into 1st gear. i switched to amsoil syntetic lube and it helped a little. but basically my parts are worn from extreme use and just need to be replaced.

are you sure they didn't do something else to your jeep.

now here's something that makes more sence:

since they were so slow putting in the new clutch

maybe they just messed up the clutch installation or something related to that. like i said. my jeeps have been running GL-5 since they were new. that's what it says in the books.

[TrainedMonkey]

The books are wrong (its true, search it), it is definetially gl-3 for the ax-15 in 97 up. I did the research, and some gl-5's will eat the synchros over time, though they may work fine short term.

Called the shop, they apparently put in pennzoil synchromesh, which does not meet mopar standards for use in the ax-15; its for the nv trannies. In addition to having sulphur, it also seems to not have the correct friction as my synchros are not working in first or second at all, and third is not great.

I have redline on order from summit racing, hopefully it will fix the problem.

[jeannies_driver]

i thought it was GL-4 and not GL-3 that goes in the newer trannies ?

also if they switched it and your hoping that adding new oil will solve it your wrong. the oil and it's impurities have already contacted the metal and there is no repairing it ! it's actually embedded itself ( on a molecular basis )in the material and just slowly eating thing's away. it may not go in one month or one year, but remember it is in there and it will eventually go bad.

ask them if they are familiar with the term " lawsuit " when you bring up that they need to buy you a completely brand new transmission !!

call the stealer and ask for the info on it they will be more than happy to tell you it's a big no no......

[TrainedMonkey]

Just an update:

The tranny is pretty much fawked as far as the syncros go; mopar fluid made it work ok, but the damage has been done. It was overfilled by almost a quart, true neglegence by the shop (how do you even get that much in?). so yeah, nows the fun step making things right... things are heading in the direction of small claims court; upon the fluid change other stuff was found to be done wrong. Thanks for the help everyone.

[Kejtar]

Just an update:

The tranny is pretty much fawked as far as the syncros go; mopar fluid made it work ok, but the damage has been done. It was overfilled by almost a quart, true neglegence by the shop (how do you even get that much in?). so yeah, nows the fun step making things right... things are heading in the direction of small claims court; upon the fluid change other stuff was found to be done wrong. Thanks for the help everyone.
Umm how can you overfill it unless they filled it using the vent tube?? The filling procedure calls for filling it till it starts flowing out the fill hole.

In regards to the gl3/gl5: In the beginning jeep used to put in the manuals gl3. Then gl5 came out so jeep updated their manuals. That I believe lasted about 2 years till they discovered problems with sulfur additives: they ate syncros. At that point they switched the manuals to say gl3 again. Those who run gl5, if they get it without the sulfur additives should be fine: if it has sulfur though.... syncros probably won't last too long.

[godplayer]

AX-15's have brass sychro's. GL-5 is NOT compatible with brass sychros. The Jeep manuals had originally said to use GL-5, that was a typo that was changed to GL-3 I do believe. Lots of info on the net about it.

[Eagle]

The books are wrong (its true, search it), it is definetially gl-3 for the ax-15 in 97 up. I did the research, and some gl-5's will eat the synchros over time, though they may work fine short term.

Called the shop, they apparently put in pennzoil synchromesh, which does not meet mopar standards for use in the ax-15; its for the nv trannies. In addition to having sulphur, it also seems to not have the correct friction as my synchros are not working in first or second at all, and third is not great.

I have redline on order from summit racing, hopefully it will fix the problem.
I can confirm this info. When I first saw the Pennzoil stuff on the shelf I bought some, then I read the specs and saw that it did not meet the specs for my year XJ., I called Pennzoil and spoke with one of their engineers, who said exactly what TrainedMonkey wrote -- this lube was developed specifically for the NVG 3550 and NVG 4500 transmissions. It is not suitable for the AX series trannies or the BA 10/5.

[smccollamjr]

I put Mobil-1 Synthetic 70-95 in mine. I don't remember the GL rating. However, I have some Mobil-1 Synthetic 70-140 leftover from my rear diff. It says it's GL-5. I'm assuming the 70-95 is GL-5 also. Am I going to screw up my tranny? I've only put a couple thousand miles on it since, but it's been in since May. ('96 w/ 122,000 miles)

[smccollamjr]

Bump...what do you guys think?

[jeannies_driver]

as long as there's no sulphur or sulfide additives in it you should be ok, but if it does then plan on your synchro's being eaten. draining it and flushing it may help but who know's for sure.....

[Ron Hyslop]

I used gl5 in my ax5 for many years without any apparent damage(200,000mi and going strong) but it was a bitch to shift on cold mornings. I switched to Mopar ax5/ax15 specific oil last summer (found out about it on this board) and now it shifts easy on the coldest mornings.

[yardape]

I used gl5 in my ax5 for many years without any apparent damage(200,000mi and going strong) but it was a bitch to shift on cold mornings. I switched to Mopar ax5/ax15 specific oil last summer (found out about it on this board) and now it shifts easy on the coldest mornings.


Ditto,.... almost. My first AX-15 lube change was way overdue at 145k but with no apparent problems. Switched to Red Line synthetic lube and now its shifts much easier in the cold weather.

[montanaman]

My '91 XJ has an AX-15 tranny, and the owner's manual calls for 75w-90 GL5 gear oil for the tranny.

[Kejtar]

My '91 XJ has an AX-15 tranny, and the owner's manual calls for 75w-90 GL5 gear oil for the tranny.
did you read what was posted above about what the manual says?

[montanaman]

My Bad ... go ahead and delete my previous post.

did you read what was posted above about what the manual says?

[montanaman]

Ok ... what about RedLine MT-90? That's rated GL-4. Is that ok for the AX-15? Does it have any sulfur or sulfite additives? Can it do any damage to brass synchronizers?

Also ... is it ok to use GL-5 synthetic in the front and rear differentials?

[otto]

RedLine MT-90 or synthetic 75W90 gear oil is a great improvement over dino oil in the AX-15. Cleared up a lot of small shifting problems on mine. I just switched to RedLine 75W90 in the front/rear diffs, and they run quiet. RedLine is great stuff, well worth the $8/qt.

AX-15 takes 3.3 quarts; 3 quarts will do both differentials.