Bumper Build Question

noresttill · Nov 25, 2005

Hi everyone,

My plan this weekend was to finish my plans for my front bumper (2" reciever, 2 d-ring tabs). But now I want a winch bumper. My questions are:

1. My original plan was to use 2 1/2" thick straight mounts lick this: http://www.twisted-halo.com/digicam/xj/Bumper mount.pdf
If this enough for a winch??

2. I don't have a winch yet, but I need the recovery points, so im building it now. How far out must it go (the mounting plate) for say a warn 9000.

3. Know of any links to winch bumper fab, that would give me a better Idea of what im doing. I just dont have the money for a pre-made bumper.

Thanks
Jesse

tealcherokee · Nov 26, 2005

make a winch plate for the 2" receiver

Kejtar · Nov 26, 2005

noresttill said:
1. My original plan was to use 2 1/2" thick straight mounts lick this: http://www.twisted-halo.com/digicam/xj/Bumper mount.pdf
If this enough for a winch??

Oh this is plenty strong but I have two suggestions:
1. the last hole (closest to the cab) for the big bolt should be somewhat recessed to allow the bolt head to dissapear inside so that you don't have to worry about the swaybar hitting the bolt head (other option is to grind the head of hte bolt down a bit).
2. Bring the mount out forward so that you can drill a hole for a shackle in it and have it stick out through the front surface of the bumper.

2. I don't have a winch yet, but I need the recovery points, so im building it now. How far out must it go (the mounting plate) for say a warn 9000.

Look at the warn website: they have detailed drawings showing the sizes and clearances required for each one of their winches.

3. Know of any links to winch bumper fab, that would give me a better Idea of what im doing. I just dont have the money for a pre-made bumper.

There is a thread in mod tech that got started about a year ago that has a lot of different front bumper fabbing ideas/concepts. I think it was called: Show me your front bumper, or bumper fabbing ideas.

2xtreme · Nov 26, 2005

Those mounting plates are fine (I assume it utilizes the powersteering box mounts on the drivers side? (sorry, didn't look that close).

However 1/2" thick is way too thick. Double check my memory with a search (there is lots of info on home made bumpers on this forum) but I seem to remember that 1/4" thick is plenty for the mounts and 3/16th is good for the rest of it (depending on the form of the bumper).

Again, please check my memory, but I think this is a good start. I would measure mine for you but it is not easily acessable at the moment.

Michael

Kejtar · Nov 26, 2005

2xtreme said:
However 1/2" thick is way too thick. Double check my memory with a search (there is lots of info on home made bumpers on this forum) but I seem to remember that 1/4" thick is plenty for the mounts and 3/16th is good for the rest of it (depending on the form of the bumper).

Again, please check my memory, but I think this is a good start. I would measure mine for you but it is not easily acessable at the moment.

1/2" Is very good!! I bent in my frame rail on the passenger side with 3/16" bumper mount when things tweaked a bit. Now I got 1/2" mounts which won't budge which makes me happy. Anyways, at most I would consider going down to 3/8" for the mounts.

noresttill · Nov 26, 2005

tealcherokee said:
make a winch plate for the 2" receiver

thought about it, but I hear for side pulls they aren't that good

Kejtar said:
1. the last hole (closest to the cab) for the big bolt should be somewhat recessed

Good Idea

Kejtar said:
2. Bring the mount out forward so that you can drill a hole for a shackle in it and have it stick out through the front surface of the bumper.

That was the plan.

Kejtar said:
Look at the warn website: they have detailed drawings showing the sizes and clearances required for each one of their winches.

There is a thread in mod tech that got started about a year ago that has a lot of different front bumper fabbing ideas/concepts. I think it was called: Show me your front bumper, or bumper fabbing ideas.

Thanks that answered most of my questions

Kejtar said:
1/2" Is very good!!

and that answered the rest of it.

Thanks a lot, Ill check more, but I believe that is it for now

Jesse

Roxtar · Nov 26, 2005

Jeff Ayres has a great build article here:
http://www.madxj.com/
Just click on "technical" and scroll to "Jeff's Custom Front Bumper"

WrenchMonkey · Nov 26, 2005

kid4lyf said:
Jeff Ayres has a great build article here:
http://www.madxj.com/
Just click on "technical" and scroll to "Jeff's Custom Front Bumper"

Unless I'm reading that wrong, it looks like he's only got that mounted to the stock bumper mounting bolts, three-per-side. Isn't that what he says?

Robert

Twistedimg · Nov 26, 2005

Ha, the ironic part is that I had forgotten that PDF was even still hosted on my server untill the other day when I almost removed it. A friend and I actually redid the drawing to extend out forward more so the shackle holes will be drilled right into the mount. We've got it in CAD and he's gonna machine them at his machine shop this weekend using whatever computer setup they have so they are perfect. Will be using them to do the bumpers on mine and his XJ and if the brackets are all good we will probably be making a small run of them to sell.

WrenchMonkey · Nov 26, 2005

Twistedimg said:
Ha, the ironic part is that I had forgotten that PDF was even still hosted on my server untill the other day when I almost removed it. A friend and I actually redid the drawing to extend out forward more so the shackle holes will be drilled right into the mount. We've got it in CAD and he's gonna machine them at his machine shop this weekend using whatever computer setup they have so they are perfect. Will be using them to do the bumpers on mine and his XJ and if the brackets are all good we will probably be making a small run of them to sell.

They look good, but do you have different designs for driver and pass, or will they have all the holes on both sides?

Robert

WB9YZU · Nov 26, 2005

I_1BADXJ_I said:
Unless I'm reading that wrong, it looks like he's only got that mounted to the stock bumper mounting bolts, three-per-side. Isn't that what he says?

Robert

Yah, that's all you really need. The factory reinforced the front two bolts on the newer XJs with a welded on bracket. I have used just the three bolts on two XJs so far and have not had a problem.

,Ron

Kejtar · Nov 26, 2005

Zuki-Ron said:
Yah, that's all you really need. The factory reinforced the front two bolts on the newer XJs with a welded on bracket. I have used just the three bolts on two XJs so far and have not had a problem.

,Ron

Ummm please go all the way BACK:
1. it spreads the load and makes it easier on the jeep
2. it's safer cause it's less likely to rip off as the small reinforced bracket up front is not going to cut it when you REALLY get stuck
3. if you only have those 3 bolts don't expect me to pull you or let anyone in a group I'm in pull you as I don't feel like hightailing it to ER with someone cause he got hit with flying metal pieces when things snapped and ripped

WB9YZU · Nov 26, 2005

noresttill said:
Hi everyone,

My plan this weekend was to finish my plans for my front bumper (2" reciever, 2 d-ring tabs). But now I want a winch bumper. My questions are:

1. My original plan was to use 2 1/2" thick straight mounts lick this: http://www.twisted-halo.com/digicam/xj/Bumper%20mount.pdf
If this enough for a winch??

2. I don't have a winch yet, but I need the recovery points, so im building it now. How far out must it go (the mounting plate) for say a warn 9000.

3. Know of any links to winch bumper fab, that would give me a better Idea of what im doing. I just dont have the money for a pre-made bumper.

Thanks
Jesse

Fab is fun, but by no means cheap. The price of steel is up, and you will need a welder. Still, fun abounds!

2 1/2" "Thick"? Seems like overkill

Try 3/16". The use of angled stock increases the ability of a piece of stock to take side loads and will give you a place to weld on your winch plate.
Already made winch plates can be obtained from Harbour Freight for $30, but they are universal. In general, you can figure 7" minimum from the grille to the fairlead, add more for the dept of the bumper you are using, or be cleaver and make the bumper flush with the winch plate. Most MFRs bumpers like ARB are a good 10".

,Ron

WB9YZU · Nov 26, 2005

Kejtar said:
Ummm please go all the way BACK:
1. it spreads the load and makes it easier on the jeep
2. it's safer cause it's less likely to rip off as the small reinforced bracket up front is not going to cut it when you REALLY get stuck
3. if you only have those 3 bolts don't expect me to pull you or let anyone in a group I'm in pull you as I don't feel like hightailing it to ER with someone cause he got hit with flying metal pieces when things snapped and ripped

Awh, now you go and completely ruin the image of you being as reasonable guy with your "don't expect me to..." bit. Point number 3 is way out of line, with that attitude, I wouldn't let you pull me out

Kejtar · Nov 26, 2005

Zuki-Ron said:
Awh, now you go and completely ruin the image of you being as reasonable guy with your "don't expect me to..." bit. Point number 3 is way out of line, with that attitude, I wouldn't let you pull me out

OK, lets take it back to the beginning. You've said

The factory reinforced the front two bolts on the newer XJs with a welded on bracket. I have used just the three bolts on two XJs so far and have not had a problem.

And I have to call SPOBI. The stock towhooks all the way to the end, used more then the front 3 bolts and AFAIK the inner piece that reinforces the front two bolts isn't welded in either (I can guarantee that it was a bolt in through 98 at the very least): it's a piece of angle iron that is bolted in. It would not take too much to rip that angle iron out if you used only 3 bolts up front and if you're pulling with a strap and it loads up things will FLY.
Anyways, I know of at least one situation where someone gave another rig a yank and a badly designed tow point failed causing pieces to fly all over and one of them went though the back windshield of an XJ and hit the driver in the side of the head. So yeah..... I will be picky how a rig gets pulled and if the tow point is not up to par it will be pulled by a different tow point or not at all.

cracker · Nov 26, 2005

Zuki-Ron said:
Awh, now you go and completely ruin the image of you being as reasonable guy with your "don't expect me to..." bit. Point number 3 is way out of line, with that attitude, I wouldn't let you pull me out

I don't know WTF you are thinking. I ripped out ALL 3 bolts out of a 99 last weekend pulling someone with my winch.

With half-ass designs like that people only get hurt. Do it right the first time!

Capt. Nemo · Nov 26, 2005

Zuki-Ron said:
Yah, that's all you really need. The factory reinforced the front two bolts on the newer XJs with a welded on bracket. I have used just the three bolts on two XJs so far and have not had a problem.

,Ron

You're lack of experience is explicitly expressed right here. Stop posting, you'll injure someone on your poor advice.

Here's what happens when you winch with those three front bolt holes ("welded on bracket" or not...):

Photo courtesy of Jes.

The bumper was just hanging there. I was just relieved that the winch line didn't snap back, or the tow hook become a projectile. I will certainly be looking at mounting points before pulling anyone from now on.

As I've said before, when offroading - overkill is the norm. You can never "over-do it" by going to a thicker steel and going further back on the frame.

WB9YZU · Nov 26, 2005

Kejtar said:
OK, lets take it back to the beginning. You've said

And I have to call SPOBI. The stock towhooks all the way to the end, used more then the front 3 bolts and AFAIK the inner piece that reinforces the front two bolts isn't welded in either (I can guarantee that it was a bolt in through 98 at the very least): it's a piece of angle iron that is bolted in. It would not take too much to rip that angle iron out if you used only 3 bolts up front and if you're pulling with a strap and it loads up things will FLY.
Anyways, I know of at least one situation where someone gave another rig a yank and a badly designed tow point failed causing pieces to fly all over and one of them went though the back windshield of an XJ and hit the driver in the side of the head. So yeah..... I will be picky how a rig gets pulled and if the tow point is not up to par it will be pulled by a different tow point or not at all.

I just went out and looked. You are correct, the bracket in question is bolted on with two bolts to the radiator support and the two going to the bumper. SPOBI to me on that count. Bolt VS Weld, my bad!

You are also right about the stock tow bracket, but, I didn't mention a tow bracket, just the reinforcement bracket.

Now on to practicality:
I have yanked, been yanked, and winched countless of times off those same 3 bolts a side and the bumper mount has never moved on either of the Jeeps I have used it on. That is my practical experience.

I am sorry to hear, very sorry indeed to hear that if there was a fellow Jeeper in trouble, and the only tow point they had was, though sturdy and a good hardpoint, not to your liking, you would walk away and encourage others to do so also. That is simply not how we do things here.

-Ron

cracker · Nov 26, 2005

Capt. Nemo said:
You're lack of experience is explicitly expressed right here. Stop posting, you'll injure someone on your poor advice.

Here's what happens when you winch with those three front bolt holes ("welded on bracket" or not...):

Photo courtesy of Jes.

The bumper was just hanging there. I was just relieved that the winch line didn't snap back, or the tow hook become a projectile. I will certainly be looking at mounting points before pulling anyone from now on.

As I've said before, when offroading - overkill is the norm. You can never "over-do it" by going to a thicker steel and going further back on the frame.

Thanks Eric! I was looking for that pic but couldn't find it.

I could not believe how LITTLE effort it took for me to rip that off.

WB9YZU · Nov 26, 2005

Capt. Nemo said:
You're lack of experience is explicitly expressed right here. Stop posting, you'll injure someone on your poor advice.

Here's what happens when you winch with those three front bolt holes ("welded on bracket" or not...):

http://www.fototime.com/{A8B5253C-66A7-46E0-8903-7C03FB08EE2F}/picture.JPG
Photo courtesy of Jes.

The bumper was just hanging there. I was just relieved that the winch line didn't snap back, or the tow hook become a projectile. I will certainly be looking at mounting points before pulling anyone from now on.

As I've said before, when offroading - overkill is the norm. You can never "over-do it" by going to a thicker steel and going further back on the frame.

Interesting, looks like a stock bumper... What was your tow point?

As for my lack of experince and whether I should stop posting; well have it your way then. You don't know what I know, or have seen, nice having you judge me

-Ron

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