Teddy was right!

What happened between then and now that changed this stand?



Theodore Roosevelt on Immigrants and being an AMERICAN


"In the first place we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the man's becoming in very fact an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag, and this excludes the red flag, which symbolizes all wars against liberty and civilization, just as much as it excludes any foreign flag of a nation to which we are hostile...We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

Theodore Roosevelt 1907

You got me as to what exactly has changed between then and now, but Teddy was the MAN!

SBrad001 said:

You got me as to what exactly has changed between then and now, but Teddy was the MAN!

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you gotta be kidding

Absolutely not. Teddy Roosevelt was one if not the the greatest presidents that this nation has ever had. He fought corruption in the government, took up the torch up against the oil and train barons, and put more of this country into national preserves and parks than any other president before or since. He founded the Department of the Interior too.

I think that his observations on the duties of a citizen in a republic are incredibly accurate. We are a Nation of many, we owe our allegience to our country, not our ethinic homelands. If our homelands were so great why did our ancestors come here in the first place?

Ironmen77 said:

....There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag, and this excludes the red flag, which symbolizes all wars against liberty and civilization, just as much as it excludes any foreign flag of a nation to which we are hostile...We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

Theodore Roosevelt 1907

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I agree with Roosevelt's statement of 98 years ago with every patriotic fiber of my being. On this one, he was right on the money. I view with disgust the assimilation of this nation by the rest of the world. On the other hand I figure that at my age, I hope to miss the complete collapse of what used to be a great, sovereign nation.

SBrad001 said:

Absolutely not. Teddy Roosevelt was one if not the the greatest presidents that this nation has ever had. He fought corruption in the government, took up the torch up against the oil and train barons, and put more of this country into national preserves and parks than any other president before or since. He founded the Department of the Interior too.

I think that his observations on the duties of a citizen in a republic are incredibly accurate. We are a Nation of many, we owe our allegience to our country, not our ethinic homelands. If our homelands were so great why did our ancestors come here in the first place?

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well maybe you just have to be racist to see how things have changed :dunno: or come live in the brown or black belt

Ramsey said:

well maybe you just have to be racist to see how things have changed :dunno: or come live in the brown or black belt

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Bullshit.
I agree completely with the first post.
America welcomes immigrants with open arms and I'm all for that.
However...
If you come here, you come to be an AMERICAN. Not a "Mexican American". Not a "French American". Not an "African American".
Assimilate. Don't tell us to assimilate to you.
If you're not prouder of your new heritage than your old one perhaps you should have stayed.
Why are we expected to embrace wherever you origionate from.
I loved that speach that was posted here a couple months ago.
America used to be a melting pot, where people came to join, melt together, and become an American.
We've become a tossed salad, where people expect to stay as they were, just in a different place.
If you move to any country on earth you will be expected to fit in with them. They will not make allowances to fit in to you.
If I decide to move to Portugal, I damn well better learn Portugese if I'm going to survive.
Would they make allowances for me, an "American Portugese"
Protect me from jail time because I wasn't read my rights in English when arrested?
Why is it different here?

BTW, we're talking about nationalities here, not races.
Racism has nothing to do with this thread.

i agree with you kid. Teddy use to be right, i'm saying that it has changed and its no longer like that. Sure i wish that it were still that way, but its not.

Ramsey said:

i agree with you kid. Teddy use to be right, i'm saying that it has changed and its no longer like that. Sure i wish that it were still that way, but its not.

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OK, but I think Teddy is still right.
That change wasn't evolutionary.
IOW, It didn't have to change. We allowed it to.
Unfortunately, that mistake would be very hard to fix now.

It's come down to two groups, neither of which I agree with.
The PC group says, "It's our differences that make us great, we should embrace (and keep) them."
The other group wants to close our borders; shutting out those that are different.
I say leave our borders open. America should welcome all that want to become Americans, without a hyphen. Our different backgrounds can make us great, but only if we melt together as one.
Mexico-America doesn't exist.
Arab-America doesn't exist.
Africa-America doesn't exist.
You can't be citizens of these countries
Make a choice.

One thing that would help the Country and IMHO is greatly needed,
A National language!
If you move here, learn to speak the language!
Quit letting banks and utility companies have an option "para espanol"!
Think of the ILLEGAL ALLIANS that would not be able to blend in to the populus and continue their lives uninhibited, taking all of our welfare and public aid for AMERICANS that truely need it!

I think that one change would stifle the influx of illegal immigration into this country.

It is the illegals that are to blame, not the ones who try to fit in and learn the language.

I say buy the Minute Men more ammo!

seanR said:

One thing that would help the Country and IMHO is greatly needed,
A National language!
If you move here, learn to speak the language!
Quit letting banks and utility companies have an option "para espanol"!
Think of the ILLEGAL ALLIANS that would not be able to blend in to the populus and continue their lives uninhibited, taking all of our welfare and public aid for AMERICANS that truely need it!

I think that one change would stifle the influx of illegal immigration into this country.

It is the illegals that are to blame, not the ones who try to fit in and learn the language.

I say buy the Minute Men more ammo!

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Damn Irish-Americans

National language? The only national language is on TV and not everybody understands them.
Teddy's flawed assumption is that, the US is one homogeneous mass. I can think of 5 or 6 distinctly different areas, with rather large variations on what used to be the English language.
One reason to get the central government out of the process, one law or regulation doesn't fit all situations or areas.
To many times, an area, because of the ambiance has become a popular place to move too. And the people that move there, start changing things to suit there ideas of what it should be. And what you moved there for in the first place is gone or diminished to the point, it sure wasn't what it used to be. And in the worst case scenario, turns into a ghetto.
Central policy, for a diverse peoples, probably has the affect of pleasing nobody in the long run. Culture clash is bound to happen.
An economist once commented, the United States is actually 50 different countries (or more) with a common currancy, related langauges and few restrictions on interstate commerce.

blame the democraps for going against Teddys words. Its all the demoCRAPS fault!! stupid liberals

I've got no problem with anything-Americans. What I have aproblem with is fawkin foriegners who can't even speak english benefitting from my tax dollars and taking advantage of our country.

basalt51 said:

I've got no problem with anything-Americans. What I have aproblem with is fawkin foriegners who can't even speak english benefitting from my tax dollars and taking advantage of our country.

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I imagine the Mexicans, the Yaqui's, the Mojave's, the Hopi's and the Channel Island Indians said much the same thing, in a slightly different way.
One reason the government is trying so hard for a global economy and promoting Democracy, is so the natives will stay home. And avoid explosive culture clashes.

stewie said:

blame the democraps for going against Teddys words. Its all the demoCRAPS fault!! stupid liberals

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What a throught provoking intelligent responce.

:twak:

8Mud said:

Teddy's flawed assumption is that, the US is one homogeneous mass. I can think of 5 or 6 distinctly different areas, with rather large variations on what used to be the English language.
One reason to get the central government out of the process, one law or regulation doesn't fit all situations or areas.
To many times, an area, because of the ambiance has become a popular place to move too. And the people that move there, start changing things to suit there ideas of what it should be. And what you moved there for in the first place is gone or diminished to the point, it sure wasn't what it used to be. And in the worst case scenario, turns into a ghetto.
Central policy, for a diverse peoples, probably has the affect of pleasing nobody in the long run. Culture clash is bound to happen.
An economist once commented, the United States is actually 50 different countries (or more) with a common currancy, related langauges and few restrictions on interstate commerce.

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You don't get it do you?
That's my whole point. It doesn't have to be that way. It shouldn't be that way. It's become that way because people haven't been willing to assililate into American culture, choosing rather to hold onto their own.

8Mud said:

I can think of 5 or 6 distinctly different areas, with rather large variations on what used to be the English language.

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We're talking about language, not accents.

8Mud said:

One reason to get the central government out of the process, one law or regulation doesn't fit all situations or areas.

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That's just a plain-ass frightening statement.
Explain any case where you think a set of laws or regulations should not apply to one group over another.

8Mud said:

Central policy, for a diverse peoples, probably has the affect of pleasing nobody in the long run. Culture clash is bound to happen.

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Again, what situation would make it OK for any one group of people to feel that central policies should not apply to them?

8Mud said:

An economist once commented, the United States is actually 50 different countries (or more) with a common currancy, related langauges and few restrictions on interstate commerce.

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If you read the Constution as it was written, that IS how our counrty is s'posed to be!
But we might as well wipe our asses with the constution, it has been so missinturpeted and watered down, that it is nothing but another historical document any more, like the Magna Carta!
It all started with the recostruction acts after the civil war that took citizenship away from the States and gave it to the Fed. Government.
The States that left the union were held hostage untill the 14? and 15? were ratified, vertuly stripping all of the power from the States and making the Fed. Gov. all power.
Enough with the civics lessons, I am going to the Den!

kid4lyf said:

You don't get it do you?
That's my whole point. It doesn't have to be that way. It shouldn't be that way. It's become that way because people haven't been willing to assililate into American culture, choosing rather to hold onto their own.
We're talking about language, not accents.That's just a plain-ass frightening statement.
Explain any case where you think a set of laws or regulations should not apply to one group over another.Again, what situation would make it OK for any one group of people to feel that central policies should not apply to them?

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From rear to front. Or in other words solving, separate problems with blanket legislation. Or bend over here it comes whether you want it or not.
If the Mormons want to have more than one wife, they are the majority and they are even crazy enough to want such a thing. Who is the central government, to draft legislation banning it.
American culture, people rarely want to assimilate, they mostly want what the other guy has, the more aggressive just want control.
Language is a fluid thing and constantly changing. People that get hung up on language are often labeled imperialistic.
Maybe cultural exchange is the answer, for every person that immigrates to the US, the US should subsidize a US citizen to immigrate to were ever they came from. In a couple of generations, one place could be, just about as friendly and stable as another. Just different.

We're talking about language, not accents.

About 30% of the German language (or more) is pretty much exactly what your speaking, just a different accent.
Yiddish and german share a bunch. Just different accents.
Try talking to a Cajun or a Texan when they are in a rush.
Go to South Carolina and when somebody says to go get your Chaps and we'll go (where ever). What are you supposed to bring along?

8Mud said:

From rear to front. Or in other words solving, separate problems with blanket legislation. Or bend over here it comes whether you want it or not.
If the Mormons want to have more than one wife, they are the majority and they are even crazy enough to want such a thing. Who is the central government, to draft legislation banning it.
American culture, people rarely want to assimilate, they mostly want what the other guy has, the more aggressive just want control.
Language is a fluid thing and constantly changing. People that get hung up on language are often labeled imperialistic.
Maybe cultural exchange is the answer, for every person that immigrates to the US, the US should subsidize a US citizen to immigrate to were ever they came from. In a couple of generations, one place could be, just about as friendly and stable as another. Just different.

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OK, I'll try this once more.
We are talking about speaking English vs Spanish, French, Aramaic, or any other LANGUAGE, not how you speak english.
Are we OK with that one now?

Do you realize what you're saying in the rest of your post?
Do you really believe that two different groups living in the same country should have two different sets of rules and laws?
I believe that issue was put to rest in the 50s.

But hey, why stop with the Mormons.
Why have any absolutes? Personally, I think Dutch people should all be allowed to drive as fast as they want.
After all, we come from Europe where the autobahn is unlimited so I think it should be my right as a Dutch-American.
Get my lawyer on the phone.