Oil Obsession

I have found that this site is obsessed with various motor oils. Almost every post that talks about motor oil gets huge amounts of replies. I think its great. With oil being the blood of the engine, and everyone having different opinions to share. ANd the various brands of filters are great to talk about too. We all know by now that Fram sucks. LOL.
Personally I use Mobil 1 with a Mobil 1 oil filter on my 98 XJ. Never a problem. Nor do I ever anticipate one. Now the wifes car gets walmart supertech with a supertech filter. never a problem there either. Add a quart of Marvels Mystery Oil to it in the winter for added viscosity and cleaning. Hers is a 98 Escort by the way.
Oil
Oil filters
And tires get tons of responses. So cool. I love this board.

Hey, how about a link to that website, I'd like to check it out..........Hans

I'm talking about this website your looking at now. Do a search on oil and see what happens.

i like the fram oil filters.. no worries thus far

helix said:

i like the fram oil filters.. no worries thus far

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[flame suit on] Me too, been useing them for YEARS (since 1978?) and no problems.
Oh............ and oil???? Castrol GTX 20/50.
No plans to change.

I sense another filter war heating up.
I used fram filters way back when. I stopped when someone told me that my valve clatter at startup was due to and ineffective anti-drainback valve. Used a purolater and the clatter went away, stuck with them.
Had a fram explode once, but it was only after I had melted through the aluminum piston and combustion chamber pressure popped the filter, hardly Fram's fault.

Castrol GTX and Purelator filter for years now. Im happy.

Previously used Caker State.... Never again.

Fram filters and Penzoil 10w-40 and 244000+ Miles every 3500 miles
No problems yet..... At this point I don't expect to either.

I imagine Fram filters are adequate in a minimum sort of way, but they certainly don't try very hard to exceed the minimum, and if you doubt that, you can take a hacksaw and open up a Fram and any premium filter. The difference in price between a Fram and a Wix is negligible over the lifespan of the filter. We're talking something like 5 percent of the cost of your oil change, spread over 3-10 thousand miles depending on how obsessive you are about changing oil.

Since I am not obsessive about oil change intervals, but my Jeep does leak prodigiously, I get good filters and cheap oil. Actually I've considered just going out into the driveway and pouring some oil on the ground to save time.

Seriously, I've never had issues with generic parts-store oil like NAPA or Parts Master in any of the three family XJ's that have so far gone over 200K miles, or in my Mercedes 240D, which clatters away happily on Parts Master 15W-40 at ~325K in its 27th year. I might think differently if I raced, or if I subjected my engine to unusually harsh conditions such as desert heat or California commuting, but for my kind of use it's a pretty sure bet that the engine will outlast the body as long as basic needs are met.

Fram sucks...Fram sucks...Fram sucks...:laugh3: ...Just kidding. I don't really care about the subject and definitely don't want to start another flaming war.
My brother in law told me once that there is very little difference between the oils offered by the major manufacturers and in some instances they are exactly the same.

ya....but do prefer painted bumpers ends or black.......lol

dizzymac said:

ya....but do prefer painted bumpers ends or black.......lol

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I prefer mine, along with my rear window and any of the other non-rustable parts that resist the soothing natural earth tone that so providently appears on steel parts, decked out in a carefully balanced blend of leaked motor oil and road grime. Like some rabbits and weasels, my Jeep changes its color seasonally, and I'm looking forward to its winter plumage: leaked motor oil garnished with decorative fringes of dried road salt.

Here is my thoughts on fram: I have never had a problem with them when I have actually used them, but they are not different in price from say purolator or other such brands so why take the chance that somthing will go wrong with the fram. And if your exscuse is that little black grippy stuff painted on the end then I still don't get it. It doesn't take much grip to put an oil filter on being as it's clean and for taking it off I'm pretty sure thats why someone invented the oil filter wrench. So my vote is another one against fram.

My old man has used Fram oil filters on his cars for as long as I can remember without any problems. Personally, I usually get Bosch cause they are fairly common in most parts stores.

Perhaps we hear more about Fram oil filter failures than other brands because they sell them at Wallyworld and KMart. I have a hunch that there are a lot more Fram filters out there than any other brand....that could be why there might be more failures but I could be dead wrong.

I tend to use whatever oil is on sale. Why are Valvoline and Quaker State considered bad oils? Don't oils have to meet certain standards?

Oils have to meet a number of standards, but there are two bases in use - paraffin base and mineral oil base.

Pennzoil, Quaker State, and others used to use a paraffin base (I think P and QS are the only ones that do anymore.) I'd not use a paraffin base in a two-stroke - let alone a four-stroke. In case you're wondering why, remember that candle wax is a variant of paraffin, and that waxy stuff your grandmother used to coat her fruit preserves with when canning is paraffin wax. Imagine what happens if/when it starts depositing in your oil galleries - and the sludge I've seen in oil sumps from that stuff is something I'd not inflict on other people. I've been able to filter it and make candles out of the stuff - and they burned just fine! A good mineral oil doesn't even burn without help.

I don't have any trouble with Valvoline, Castrol, or Kendall - I've use one or more of those for a number of years. I've also started using Chevron's "house" oil - which isn't a problem (I've checked) and Kragen's "house" oil is/what rerefined by Valvoline - and they take the trouble to crack all the paraffinoids out as well, so it's a straight mineral base.

You'll find that most of the SAE standards relate to viscosity and lubricity, and the API standards govern the use of additives (viscosity improvers, corrosion inhibitors, acid neutralisers, ZDP, and cast of thousands) - but neither really does anything about the base oil.

As far as filters go, I prefer Wix (which I can usually find) or Baldwin (rare! Used to use them on tractors and pump engines.) My local parts house has their "house" filters made by Wix, and I think NAPA does as well - I haven't asked lately.

Fram isn't totally bad, but their construction leaves a bit to be desired.

As far as mounting and dismounting oil filters - I use precisely ONE tool for an oil change - a 9/16" wrench. I do not use a wrench to put a filter on (NEVER NEVER NEVER!) and I don't use one to take it off (if you put it on right, it will come off with a good twist.) Use a little "red moly" grease on the gasket instead of oil, install to "contact + 1/2 turn," and you'll be golden next time. Who needs the little "grippy" thing? That's what the scallops are for in the end of the case.

Anything else?

5-90

drifto77 said:

[flame suit on] Me too, been useing them for YEARS (since 1978?) and no problems.
Oh............ and oil???? Castrol GTX 20/50.
No plans to change.

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I get your point but I still think that its a rediculous reason to use a product. By the same logic I should ditch my CDs for cassetes (or MP3s for CDs) because you used them longer with no problems. Its not unusual for companies to make quality adjustments to their product, both improvements and quality decreases (cutting costs) and this is especially true when a company is bought by another as happened to Fram a few years ago, so, they are not the same company as they used to be. Plus, technology changes and some brands don't keep up. I am pretty much convinced by the displays an demonstrations where a fram and competiors filter are dissected.

BTW 5-90, Napa Gold = WIX (which is DANA). Except for some of the oddball filters for exotic cars are bought from someone else.

There was a time FRAM was a premium filter (one of the best), then the name was sold and the new manufacturer lived off of the name for years, before people started to catch on the new product (same name and packaging) wasn't the same quality as it used to be.
A lot of companies do the same thing, make a quality product, then start shaving production costs, until they end up with junk.
I recently found a couple of cans of Mobile 1, from the early 80's (I think). It looks different, smells different and feels different than it does today. It used to be totally clear, absolutely no pigment. You could take a drop and rub it into your arm like baby oil. Just out of curiosity, I put a couple of drops on a sheet of glass and tilted it to get an idea of the adhesion properties. The new stuff, doesn't seem to adhere as well as the old stuff. I've also used both as a preservative, coating metal pieces to prevent rust during storage, the old stuff hardly ever evaporates, the new stuff does noticeably.

napas filter line is made by wix. I just bought a fuel filer and it said wix on the bottom of the box.

8Mud said:

There was a time FRAM was a premium filter (one of the best), then the name was sold and the new manufacturer lived off of the name for years, before people started to catch on the new product (same name and packaging) wasn't the same quality as it used to be.
A lot of companies do the same thing, make a quality product, then start shaving production costs, until they end up with junk.
I recently found a couple of cans of Mobile 1, from the early 80's (I think). It looks different, smells different and feels different than it does today. It used to be totally clear, absolutely no pigment. You could take a drop and rub it into your arm like baby oil. Just out of curiosity, I put a couple of drops on a sheet of glass and tilted it to get an idea of the adhesion properties. The new stuff, doesn't seem to adhere as well as the old stuff. I've also used both as a preservative, coating metal pieces to prevent rust during storage, the old stuff hardly ever evaporates, the new stuff does noticeably.

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A lot of that has to do with the new "Fuel Economy" specs - they reduce viscosity, adhesion, and a number of additives to reduce internal parasitic friction and the amount of power needed to pump the oil. They've actually got a zero viscosity oil out now!

Of course, the reduction of a lot of these additives (especially ZDP - zinc dithiophosphate - an anti-scuff additive) is causing a lot of trouble for the people with older engines - like us. Most new engines have rollerized valvetrains, which can survive just fine with lower anti-scuff additive levels. Flat tappets tend to have trouble with that.

So, it's a good idea to avoid the oils with the "Fuel Economy" sunburst on the front, since those are the ones with the lower ZDP levels. This isn't really the fault of the oil - or even the manufacturer - since vehicles these days just aren't designed to give the long-term service that older vehicles were. I think the typicall anticipated service life for newer vehicles is something like 100-130K miles, while older vehicles are known for giving service well in excess of 500Kmiles (and I'm looking forward to building an engine that will get a "Million Mile Plaque" someday...)

5-90

bustednutz said:

I'm talking about this website your looking at now. Do a search on oil and see what happens.

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Doh!..........Hans