Exo Cage design

[CanMan]

Im A noob to this site, and sadly dont even have an XJ YET. But I am designing and planning out throughly exactly everything I will do. This is where the cage comes in. Let me know your thoughts, suggestions, and weather or not I am going overboard.

I will be using 1.75 X .120 DOM tube steel. as far as the bumpers front and rear, I am undecided so far, but have a few in mind. I also plan on using TnT Customs frame stiffners, and going on from there to make the sliders for the rockers. Click on link below:

Exo Cage Design (http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/ejc2424/album?.dir=2f98&.src=ph&store=&prodid=&.done=http%3a//photos.yahoo.com/ph//my_photos)

Thanks to MikeyB for letting me use the picture of his XJ, The one on the trail in the lower section of Rock Gorge in Gilbert, MN.

[JeepFreak21]

Why do you want an exo? Will you have any sort of internal cage to go with it? You're going to want to do some searching. You've got quite a bit of tube in your design that functions as nothing but extra weight. Besides that, my biggest tip at this point is that you want your tube to come together in nodes. Nodes are where 3 or more pieces of tube all meet in the same place. They're trickier to weld, but it makes for a lot stronger cage.
Billy

PS - Welcome!

[CanMan]

Well, I have revised and corrected my design, removed some pieces, and made it simpler. I want an exo cause for one, it wont get in the way of people and gear on the inside, it will help strengthen the body, prevent too much of extreme body damage in a roll over. Plus they look cool(which probably isnt a reason to want one). Also they seem simpler to fabricate. The roof part may attach to like a standard drag car 4 point roll cage on the inside, only to really mount some 5 point harnesses and protect my head a little more. I have look at some cage designs on http://xjdb.com, and some are more advanced and some are more simple.

[JeepFreak21]

Well, I have revised and corrected my design, removed some pieces, and made it simpler. I want an exo cause for one, it wont get in the way of people and gear on the inside, it will help strengthen the body, prevent too much of extreme body damage in a roll over. Plus they look cool(which probably isnt a reason to want one). Also they seem simpler to fabricate. The roof part may attach to like a standard drag car 4 point roll cage on the inside, only to really mount some 5 point harnesses and protect my head a little more. I have look at some cage designs on http://xjdb.com, and some are more advanced and some are more simple.

Good. You're correct about a lot of things, except that an exo will be easier to fabricate. If you want it to actually hold up in a roll, you need to put some serious thought into it. You have to compensate for not having any crossbars (like an X or diagonal behind the seats) unless you do tie it into a simple interior cage (which I HIGHLY recommend). Also, keep in mind that even with an exo you will probably still get a good amount of damage if you roll your rig over. Search for C-Rok... he had a nice exo and it did it's job, but he still ended up choppin' the top after a roll.
HTH,
Billy

[rockwerks]

Good. You're correct about a lot of things, except that an exo will be easier to fabricate. If you want it to actually hold up in a roll, you need to put some serious thought into it. You have to compensate for not having any crossbars (like an X or diagonal behind the seats) unless you do tie it into a simple interior cage (which I HIGHLY recommend). Also, keep in mind that even with an exo you will probably still get a good amount of damage if you roll your rig over. Search for C-Rok... he had a nice exo and it did it's job, but he still ended up choppin' the top after a roll.
HTH,
Billy

an interior cage would help with the body? you make no sense at all ....LOL

the C-rok cage is a very good basic design and Im going to be using it on an 01 Im building. It needs a few xtra pieces to make it rigid enough. an additional connection at the B pillar to the pillar needs added. so dodifying the rear door needs to be done and roof to cage diagonal support needs to be added.

Also like on C-roks rig a cage type spare tire carrier will add strength to the sides I will do a write up on the cage as I do it next week.

[JeepFreak21]

an interior cage would help with the body? you make no sense at all ....LOL

Did I say that? :confused:
Billy

[mikecooper]

When it comes to a 4 dr i wouldnt even bother, you'll never be able to correctly stiffen the center of the body w/o having as someone said an x style crossmember inside the cab that mounts to the top of the cage and the frame. Plus if you are going to wheel an xj hard enough to warrant an exo cage and care about the doors being on, find a 2 door or another style jeep.

[xjj33p3r]

When it comes to a 4 dr i wouldnt even bother, you'll never be able to correctly stiffen the center of the body w/o having as someone said an x style crossmember inside the cab that mounts to the top of the cage and the frame. Plus if you are going to wheel an xj hard enough to warrant an exo cage and care about the doors being on, find a 2 door or another style jeep.
Mike, if you tie the cage in through the roof, while mainting an X shape inside, you can pull it off on a 4 door. It's been done bro.

[JeepFreak21]

Mike, if you tie the cage in through the roof, while mainting an X shape inside, you can pull it off on a 4 door. It's been done bro.

I think that's what he said.
Billy

[Silverstreak01]

you may want to check this site out.. i personally love the exo design on this 4 door. i know he floped it to.
http://www.4wheeloffroad.com/2004ultimateadventure/getting_there/photos/

[BrettM]

you may want to check this site out.. i personally love the exo design on this 4 door. i know he floped it to.
http://www.4wheeloffroad.com/2004ultimateadventure/getting_there/photos/

I like the tie-ins to the rain-gutter/pinch seam, an excellent idea on a unibody.

[mikecooper]

I know its been done, but you cant do it w/o going through the roof, ie cutting holes in it. Or you can wrap it around the roofline but that would require keeping the doors off. Seeing as how mine is a dd i dotn want holes in my roof or to have to permenantly remove my doors. Now if you had matching tubing inside and out it would be alot safer(not allowing to roof to be smashed in, as far, when the tubing bends) but not as rigid, catch my drift at all?

[xjj33p3r]

Why wouldn't it be possible to run tubing through the roof, but still keep it as a DD?

[JeepFreak21]

Why wouldn't it be possible to run tubing through the roof, but still keep it as a DD?

I agree with what you're getting at. They make rubber grommets for passing tubing through sheet metal now. I saw them on PBB.
Billy

[mikecooper]

You could but where you would be exiting the roof, more the likely it would be too close to the pinch seam on the gutters to get that tight of a seal and even with the cage the body will probably flex enough to wallow out the gromit. Just saying I wouldnt do it on my dd. Hell my cb antenna cable that runs out my driver door and along the gutter makes my jeep fill with water when it rains and you think 2 or more rubber gromits wont leak?

[88rockxj]

to go through the roof all you need to do is weld a 4x4 1/4" thick plate to the end of the tubing on the inside then do the same on the outside , drill 4 holes in the corners of both plates and then 4 holes in the roof , silicone bolts and there you go, dont have to cut a big hole through the roof .

[allthingsoffroad]

you may want to check this site out.. i personally love the exo design on this 4 door. i know he floped it to.
http://www.4wheeloffroad.com/2004ultimateadventure/getting_there/photos/


do you think his would hold up? i have seen it on its side and he came out clean...

[mikecooper]

to go through the roof all you need to do is weld a 4x4 1/4" thick plate to the end of the tubing on the inside then do the same on the outside , drill 4 holes in the corners of both plates and then 4 holes in the roof , silicone bolts and there you go, dont have to cut a big hole through the roof .

Yes but when the body flexes it will rip thoese bolts right out.

[rockwerks]

Yes but when the body flexes it will rip thoese bolts right out.

and this statement came from experience or what?

Maybe wild ass guess?

[CRASH]

Why wouldn't it be possible to run tubing through the roof, but still keep it as a DD?


That's what I did, but I don't use grommets. My tubes are welded to the sheetmetal.

[CRASH]

Yes but when the body flexes it will rip thoese bolts right out.


Mike, I don't know what kind of experience you have with XJ's, but on several threads, you have proven to me that you don't know what the hell you are talking about.

We have done empirical experiments with 2 and 4 door XJ's, measuring deflection under load with and without cages and frame reinforcements, and I can tell you that even an uncaged XJ doesn't flex as much as people think. With an 8 point cage, they are very, very stiff. There are some points vulnerable to deflection, like the rear hatch area, but a couple of simple gussets can even fix that.

Rant off, carry on.

[rockwerks]

I like the tie-ins to the rain-gutter/pinch seam, an excellent idea on a unibody.

c-rok has those gutter tie ins as an option also

[JeepFreak21]

You could but where you would be exiting the roof, more the likely it would be too close to the pinch seam on the gutters to get that tight of a seal and even with the cage the body will probably flex enough to wallow out the gromit. Just saying I wouldnt do it on my dd. Hell my cb antenna cable that runs out my driver door and along the gutter makes my jeep fill with water when it rains and you think 2 or more rubber gromits wont leak?

The URF cages all go through the roof. Maybe CRASH, Jes, Gary E, or SeanP will chime in.
Billy

edit: -1

[rockwerks]

Mike, I don't know what kind of experience you have with XJ's, but on several threads, you have proven to me that you don't know what the hell you are talking about.

We have done empirical experiments with 2 and 4 door XJ's, measuring deflection under load with and without cages and frame reinforcements, and I can tell you that even an uncaged XJ doesn't flex as much as people think. With an 8 point cage, they are very, very stiff. There are some points vulnerable to deflection, like the rear hatch area, but a couple of simple gussets can even fix that.

Rant off, carry on.

x2 kinda what I was eluding too

[CanMan]

I have been looking and reconsidering my plans on this. I may just go with a full cage inside(give the passangers something to hold on to), and just some on the outside around the fenderwells and hood area.

Ive helped on roll cages on unibody as well as full framed cars before IE: 1st gen Camaros, Mustangs, Novas, Chevelle, C10, since thats what my unk does for a living. Ill probably have him give me some pointers and maybe help fab the tubes up. I probably wont be wheelin the XJ hard enough to need an exo cage, just some protection incase something goes wrong. Looking at pix, most people dont even have a cage of any sort.

[88rockxj]

Yes but when the body flexes it will rip thoese bolts right out.



umm no it wont , i dont know where you got that idea but its wrong, dead wrong. a properly built cage that goes as far as exo and interior parts to the cage it will be tied into the frame rails which is part of the body (jeeps are unibodys if ya didnt know there capt) and the cage and body will be one unit.


body flex is for suspensions that arnt built properly, if youre building a cage build your suspension properly, the suspension is built to flex that is why its there. just becuase you flex your xj on some rocks and open your hatch and it wont shut dont mean its going to rip those 4 bolts out, and those 4 bolts will be acompanied by atleast 12 other bolts.


and just a question, have you ever even built a cage, exo or interior for that matter?

[JeepFreak21]

I have been looking and reconsidering my plans on this. I may just go with a full cage inside(give the passangers something to hold on to), and just some on the outside around the fenderwells and hood area.

Check out the URF style "roof rack" too... it may be a good compromise for you.
Billy

[davidt]

this one has held up well, one of my buddies (Jake Hallenbeck) did it. My favorite and most functional I have seen
http://www.reno4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=414&stc=1&d=1128733411

[mikecooper]

No i havent built one in an xj, maybe im wrong, never said i wasnt. I posted my "opinion" to what i "thought" was correct. As for my experience from the body flexing, it bas building a cage on an 83 yota with 383 stroker, 205,207, portal axles and no frame stiffening(other than the cage) on 53" michelin xls. When the rear was at full droop the cab creaked and wallowed out where the x behind the drivers seat tied into the roof about .5". Ok I am wrong shoot me, f****s:)

[CanMan]

this one has held up well, one of my buddies (Jake Hallenbeck) did it. My favorite and most functional I have seen
http://www.reno4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=414&stc=1&d=1128733411

Is that 1.75 x .120 DOM, or a different size, or material like chromoly? I like it.

Id like to see the pix of the yota on 53 inchers, if you dont mind.

[mikecooper]

dont have any pics, was way b4 my digi days and i wasnt much of a photographer. the yota is long gone but the 383 now lives in a 69 c10.

[88rockxj]

No i havent built one in an xj, maybe im wrong, never said i wasnt. I posted my "opinion" to what i "thought" was correct. As for my experience from the body flexing, it bas building a cage on an 83 yota with 383 stroker, 205,207, portal axles and no frame stiffening(other than the cage) on 53" michelin xls. When the rear was at full droop the cab creaked and wallowed out where the x behind the drivers seat tied into the roof about .5". Ok I am wrong shoot me, f****s:)



well ummmm if hes gonna be going with 53" tires and rockwells/portals im pretty sure that he would be saying bye bye to the stock uni body frame rails


dont you?if he didnt then those 4 bolts ripping through his roof would be the least of his problems

[BrettM]

No i havent built one in an xj, maybe im wrong, never said i wasnt. I posted my "opinion" to what i "thought" was correct. As for my experience from the body flexing, it bas building a cage on an 83 yota with 383 stroker, 205,207, portal axles and no frame stiffening(other than the cage) on 53" michelin xls. When the rear was at full droop the cab creaked and wallowed out where the x behind the drivers seat tied into the roof about .5". Ok I am wrong shoot me, f****s:)
a uni-body is a whole different animal then a cab on frame

[BrettM]

this one has held up well, one of my buddies (Jake Hallenbeck) did it. My favorite and most functional I have seen
http://www.reno4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=414&stc=1&d=1128733411
"has held up well"

to what? a flop? multiple flops? half roll? full roll? a couple rolls?

[davidt]

flops and a full roll, not sure on the material...

[Chattxj]

I dont know which monthly issue, but in Petersons magazine they had a 4 door XJ with an exo cage and it looked pretty good. If I can find it in my house ill tell you which month it is.

[Beej]

As for my experience from the body flexing, it bas building a cage on an 83 yota with 383 stroker, 205,207, portal axles and no frame stiffening(other than the cage) on 53" michelin xls. When the rear was at full droop the cab creaked and wallowed out where the x behind the drivers seat tied into the roof about .5". Ok I am wrong shoot me, f****s:)Oh yeah? Well I built an 84 yota with a 385 double-stroker, 206, 208 and double portal axles with full quad-quadio and no frame stiffening and my cab didn't move at all when ramping 10459 on a 90 degree ramp...

dont have any pics, was way b4 my digi days and i wasnt much of a photographer. the yota is long gone but the 383 now lives in a 69 c10. So even though you managed to build and run what must have been an unbelievable mechanical acheivement, you didn't document it?
Unbelievable...

[CanMan]

So even though you managed to build and run what must have been an unbelievable mechanical acheivement, you didn't document it?
Unbelievable...

I was kinda thinkin the same thing. Even a noob does, which I have on my '64 El Camino and '69 Chevelle SS, which im not a noob to.

[JeepFreak21]

I have on my '64 El Camino and '69 Chevelle SS

Pics in 30 minutes or I call BS!





















Billy :laugh3:

[CanMan]

Heres the links to the two:

68_Chevelle (http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/ejc2424/album?.dir=c438&.src=ph&store=&prodid=&.done=http%3a//photos.yahoo.com/ph//my_photos)

and

My_'64 (http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/ejc2424/album?.dir=a0d3&.src=ph&store=&prodid=&.done=http%3a//photos.yahoo.com/ph//my_photos)

and

'66_Malibu (http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/ejc2424/album?.dir=5f83&.src=ph&store=&prodid=&.done=http%3a//pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/ejc2424/my_photos)

and

'67_Camaro (http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/ejc2424/album?.dir=a769&.src=ph&store=&prodid=&.done=http%3a//pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/ejc2424/my_photos)

And yes they are mine, But im selling the 1966 Chevelle (Anyone?) to buy an XJ of course!

[ArcticXJ]

My 64 ( http://us.a1.yahoofs.com/users/41ad248fz87024fcc/a0d3/__sr_/1432.jpg?phs7cYDB7QvKKC75)

Uh, nice tat. :)

Looks like its time to hit the weights.

[NOVAggie]

this one has held up well, one of my buddies (Jake Hallenbeck) did it. My favorite and most functional I have seen
http://www.reno4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=414&stc=1&d=1128733411

anymore pictures of this rig? Mine is a 2 door as well and would like to look at more cage pics for mine, thanks

[Goatman]

I love it when someone with some basic experience comes looking for good technical input and they get a bunch of know it all advice from people who know considerably less than the person who asked the question. :rolleyes:

I think the actual design of a cage has a lot of room for personal goals and preferences while still being a good cage. It's good to talk about the basics stuff, and the goals, rather than specifics of what is the "best" cage. There have been quite a few very good cages built by those who frequent these forums, and they can be very different from each other in design.

A couple of things are sure. It doesn't take much of a cage to add a good amount of rigidity to the body. It also doesn't take very much of a cage to add a considerable amount of protection to the occupants of the vehicle. So, anything beyond basic should have good consideration of personal goals. I've seen cages with so much tubing inside that rather than being safer (the intended goal) the cage was a danger to the occupants due to increased likelyhood of head injury. If one of the goals is to protect the vehicle, as well as protect the occupants, then some sort of an exo design becomes mandatory. To me, it would be ironic, and definitely counter productive, to have a nicely done internal cage and still have the rig totalled due to excesive body damage from a hard roll.

Oh, and I think everyone who posts answers on threads like this about cages should post pics of their own cage. :D :D

http://www.fototime.com/9CC43C76353AAF1/standard.jpg
http://www.fototime.com/2CD2713E91C3904/standard.jpg

[88rockxj]

http://tellico.off-road.com/wwwthreads_uploads/1122788-j1.jpg

never got to finish it

http://tellico.off-road.com/wwwthreads_uploads/1122796-j4.jpg


http://tellico.off-road.com/wwwthreads_uploads/1122797-j5.jpg


http://tellico.off-road.com/wwwthreads_uploads/1122799-j6.jpg

[David Taylor]

I love it when someone with some basic experience comes looking for good technical input and they get a bunch of know it all advice from people who know considerably less than the person who asked the question. :rolleyes:

I think the actual design of a cage has a lot of room for personal goals and preferences while still being a good cage. It's good to talk about the basics stuff, and the goals, rather than specifics of what is the "best" cage. There have been quite a few very good cages built by those who frequent these forums, and they can be very different from each other in design.

A couple of things are sure. It doesn't take much of a cage to add a good amount of rigidity to the body. It also doesn't take very much of a cage to add a considerable amount of protection to the occupants of the vehicle. So, anything beyond basic should have good consideration of personal goals. I've seen cages with so much tubing inside that rather than being safer (the intended goal) the cage was a danger to the occupants due to increased likelyhood of head injury. If one of the goals is to protect the vehicle, as well as protect the occupants, then some sort of an exo design becomes mandatory. To me, it would be ironic, and definitely counter productive, to have a nicely done internal cage and still have the rig totalled due to excesive body damage from a hard roll.

Oh, and I think everyone who posts answers on threads like this about cages should post pics of their own cage. :D :D

http://www.fototime.com/9CC43C76353AAF1/standard.jpg
http://www.fototime.com/2CD2713E91C3904/standard.jpg
I like the red one behind yours :laugh3: