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TIG or MIG?

xjbubba

NAXJA Member # 1524
My narrowed front HP "44" should be back from Curries at any time now--so need to seriously address bracket fabrication.
With all that welding on the tubes, what's the best type of welding, TIG or MIG? I feel comfortable with TIG, but have some say it's "TOO HOT"; ie, likely to result in warping. I can do MIG, but don't feel the welds are as strong (lots of bead but less penetration than TIG).
So what say you experienced fabricators? Would appreciate your wisdom.
 
if you know enough about welding to do your own TIG welding - i dont think you need help answering this question...

i tried TIG once - and i proved the existance of the rear weld bird - and it shat all over the place...
 
TIG

the main advantages of MIG are it's faster, cheaper for the welder (not sure about consumables), and easier to learn. Those don't really sound like issues for you since you already know how to TIG well and I assume have your own TIG machine.

Look at trophy trucks and pre-runners, their level of fabrication quality is many steps above the rock-crawling world, and they TIG basically everything and definitely brackets on housings, and the housings themselves.
 
BrettM said:
....

their level of fabrication quality is many steps above the rock-crawling world, and they TIG basically everything and definitely brackets on housings, and the housings themselves.

Truth.

I thickly veiled that sentiment on another board and promptly got slaughtered.

I have a couple of nice MIG units...
















Collecting dust in the shop. :D

--ron
 
Thanks for the come-back guys, even though I feel comfortable with TIG, I certainly don't consider myself a "welder". Not all that well versed on the effects heat has on the metal. I do know that many of the brackets/do-hickeys I've made warped enough to cause fitment problems, and taught me to be aware that heat has to be contended with. I recently got a Lincoln Electric MIG 175.
I don't feel as confident with it as I do with the TIG--but I'm sure that's just do to the difference in experience with the two machines; however, I had to modify some commercially made motor mounts that were MIG welded and was horrified at the lack of penetration between the frame mount and the "ears" that accept the engine mounts.
Please keep the comments/observations coming.
 
What's the penetration rate - MIG versus TIG?

A lot of the problems caused by heat are not so much caused by the amount of heat (no matter what process you're using, you're melting metal to fuze it,) but by how long the heat is applied. If you can achieve penetration faster with one technique over another, that's how you maintain dimensional stability.

Of course, the slower welds can be much stronger, but the HAZ is also much larger and the idea of after-weld heat-treatment becomes more attractive. (No, I'm not a welder - I'm an engineer. Gotta get back in practise welding...)

Hey Captain Ron - how long have those MIG's been sitting around on you? Any of them run on 110?

5-90
 
tig it

done


dude if you can tig weld do it

and i dont find tig to get all that hot, you will never get penetration with that little mig

im a pipe welder tig is what i use and as long as you have a good rhythm and speed it will stay cool
 
If you can TIG it, and youre good with a TIG, then go for it. MIG is adequate, or more than adequate for most, but Their no such thing as "welding overkill". If you can skillfully make a weld stronger, deeper, and better, then why not do it?
 
if you can tig then by all means tig, you wont regret it in the end.

if i had a tig at my disposal here at home i would tig every thing i weld on my rig.
 
Thanks for the encouragement regarding using TIG. I know I like TIG, except when I'm "upside down, under the Jeep, trying to weld a tab on the upper control arm mount!!"--That's why I recently bought the MIG--one handed welding! But how about technique regarding, lets say, welding new coil spring buckets to the axle housing? weld away, or short sections, i.e. 1 to 2 inches at a time? Switching from one bracket to another to allow the tube to cool before continuing? The last thing I need is to warp my new tubes.
 
5-90 said:
...

how long have those MIG's been sitting around on you? Any of them run on 110?

5-90

That was pretty good, given my personal feelings on el-cheapo units running 110V, and fabricating with them. I laughed. I can see how using the terms "shop" and "collecting dust" here can be misleading.

Anyways, you did inspire me!

The newly created TQE Racing's top secret Barnacle Works presents a better, lighter, binding method, good for at least a couple of grams per inch less than a comparable weld done with MIG in wieght savings, runs light years cooler, no HAZ problems so you can now butcher your steering componets with confidence, the equipment is affordable, runs on 100V, and best of all, barring any vendor problems, it will be availible in late 2007.

Now everyone can be assured of achieving the same results regardless of skill level, or expertise.

wld1.jpg


wld2.jpg



BrettM said:
so when can I pick one up to "borrow"?

Never, or No. I used both terms interchangably when dealing with URF spies. :D

--ron

PS: Anyone using or tried thumb remotes? What's the hot ticket these days?
 
xjbubba said:
... weld away, or short sections, i.e. 1 to 2 inches at a time? Switching from one bracket to another to allow the tube to cool before continuing? The last thing I need is to warp my new tubes.
up to 3 inches at a time depending on the thickness, 2 inches for the tubes, then alow to cool and stitch weld it ( a little here, a little there, continue untill compleated )
 
If you bend the tubes with too much heat, just hit them on the opposite side with a rosebud tip on your torch for a few minutes. It takes a little experimentation, but it works.

I really don't think you're going to bend your tubes enough to notice anyhow. Tig it, learn how to pulse with your foot if your welder doesn't have that option. I'm too cheap to go and get a pulse unit for my tig. I just get some good music playin' and fill away. Upside down tig is actually pretty easy once you figure out the right temp and fill rythm. When I'm layin' on my back and going at it upside down, I just lay my leg on the footpedal and roll on and off it. Set your heat to just barely hot enough at full pedal and you can dump all the way on your pedal if your leg control isn't good. Once again, I'm too cheap to go and get a finger control torch too. Hell, I made my own water cooled setup out of a motor we had in the back of the shop, a 6 gallon bucket, and a pump off a soda fountain carbonator. It was less than $100 into the whole thing. Of course the torch setup for water lines was $250.
 
Thanks for the reply, ONE TON, I appreciate your input.
I'm also too cheap to buy the finger control torch; I did give some consideration to wiring my own, but have been too busy to do the necessary parts search. I generally prop my pedal against a 5LB chunk of steel so that it stays put. My big problem is doing the stomach crunch necessary to get my body close enough to the work, since as you know, both arms are necessary to simultaneously operate the torch and feeder rod. I like your idea on the cooler--I assume you have the correct torch to accommodate water circulation? There's been more than one time my torch got too hot to hold!
 
After melting my air cooled torch twice, I decided it was time to step up. It was only rated at 125 amps on a 200 amp machine. As you may know, aluminum of any thickness takes a whole bunch of heat to get it melting, so I figured I better get something up to the task. I got a 250 amp water cooled torch from Weldmark. It was the smallest torch handle I could find. I like the smaller handle as it gives me better finger control when I'm rolling around tube notches. I highly recomend breaking your tungsten in half and using the short back for your torch. I get waaayyyy better control this way. I also cut my filler in half, sometimes 1/4 when I'm doing crazy out of position welds. You may already know this stuff, but others reading this may benefit. I've sacrificed too much good tungsten, filler, and welded parts to not pass on the little information I've gathered through personal experience.

Oh yeah, the pump is a procon pump. You can find them on ebay sometimes as cheap as $10. I paid $25 for mine as I was needing to get my torch up and running pretty quickly.
 
Whaddaya want from me - I'm an engine guy! Most of the welding I used to do (a LONG time ago!) was done with oxyacetylene rather than electric, and I still do a lot of brazing and soldering.

Problem is, you can't handle small/thin sections with gas welding, so that's out. I can't feature brazing or soldering panels either - so that's out.

Biggest problem I run into is trying to find a seconhand MIG that should be in useful condition (I don't need much, and I DO need practise!) that will handle 110 (I don't have 220 to the garage) and won't cost a damn fortune (I already get killed on books and tools for school. Ouch.)

I'd have to get to where I can handle welding sheet and thin sections before I felt like I was good enough to do serious work with a welding set...

5-90
 
Mig it!

Why waste the time with the tig?

Would never even get the tig out for axle work on a jeep. Mig it and be done.

hinkley
 
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