Gusseting The Inner Knuckles

[MrShoeBoy]

I remember reading that Goatman broke the welds and spun the knuckle on his 44 after he turned and welded them. Does anybody have a pic of gussets for the inner C's? Want to chime in G? :D I just got done cutting down and reinstalling the inner C's on my HP 44 and dont want to have this happen so I figured I would gusset the C's since the housing is out on the bench.

Thanks,

AARON

[tealcherokee]

weld it better than he did?

[OT]

weld it better than he did?
x2:D

[gcam]

With FSJ's there is a problem of spinning a model 20 axle tube in the differential housing. The simple fix I've heard off before is just notching the tube and the housing and filling them with weld, and then continuing the weld all the way around the tube. Would something like this work for you on your front axle?

[Dirk Pitt]

With FSJ's there is a problem of spinning a model 20 axle tube in the differential housing. The simple fix I've heard off before is just notching the tube and the housing and filling them with weld, and then continuing the weld all the way around the tube. Would something like this work for you on your front axle?

That's like a 9" centersection.

I don't think you would gain much linear weld area on the knuckle.

[Root Moose]

Why not dupe what Currie does with some of there housings? I wasn't able to find a pic at their web site; it's just a sort of half "C" that is welded to the axle C and the tube.

Or are we talking about something else?

[MrShoeBoy]

You have the right idea Moose. I removed the inner knuckles in order to shorten the housing down to waggy size or about 61" WMS to WMS from the 65" of the full size. I read in a previous post that Goatman broke the welds holding the inner knuckle to the axle tube. He attributed the failure partly to not enough weld and also to the fact he was jumping his XJ with 37s. I dont want to have the same thing happen to me so I wanted to see how he added the gusset simmilar to the Currie ones.

So does anybody have a currie front end they want to post pictures of?

AARON

[Root Moose]

I may have a copy of an image somewhere. I've got about 10GB of various car and truck "pr0n" here but you think any of it would be quickly searchable? :)

[XJ_ranger]

I may have a copy of an image somewhere. I've got about 10GB of various car and truck "pr0n" here but you think any of it would be quickly searchable? :)

sounds like you need to dedicate a weekend and fill Billy's servers at XJDB and help the rest of us out... :D :D

[Jeff 98XJ WI]

Something I was thinking about yesterday is why not weld the C to the tube on the end of the tube as well as on the inside portion of the C? Anybody do this? Any reasons why not to...other than it would be a real bitch to remove the C later on? Jeff

[Root Moose]

sounds like you need to dedicate a weekend and fill Billy's servers at XJDB and help the rest of us out... :D :D
Multi GBs over the satelite link would really suck. :)

Billy probably has ~95% of the stuff I have. What little doesn't overlap would probalby be pretty tame stuff that I have specific reasons for snarfing.

Btw, I did try to find the image but couldn't find it.

[XJ_ranger]

Something I was thinking about yesterday is why not weld the C to the tube on the end of the tube as well as on the inside portion of the C? Anybody do this? Any reasons why not to...other than it would be a real bitch to remove the C later on? Jeff

wondered about that as well...

there might be an issue with shaft yoke ears hitting the bead if you threw too much in there, but i really couldnt think of a drawback...

i did not weld mine on the outside of the knuckle, though i might someday

[cccj]

my Currie 44-9

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v393/squirriljeep/random%20Jeep%20pics/DSC02577.jpg

[MrShoeBoy]

Thanks a lot cccj! Thats the exact photo I am looking for. :cheers:

AARON

[bj-666]

wondered about that as well...

there might be an issue with shaft yoke ears hitting the bead if you threw too much in there, but i really couldnt think of a drawback...

i did not weld mine on the outside of the knuckle, though i might someday

when i rotated the knuckles on my 44 i tacked it on, on teh outside the ears hit pretty hard and would have been a pain if i had welded it all the way around the welds would have to be ground a lot

[RalphXJ]

Here is what my front 44 looks like. The shocks also mount to the support as will my limiting straps if I descide to use them.

http://www.schwabdesigns.com/jeep/axles/images/1%20Untitled-1.jpg

[Goatman]

That's a good pic of the Currie brace......something that I think we should all use. There has to be a reason that all the top axle builders use a brace like that. It's hard to tell how good my welds were, while they did fail, they also didn't look bad. I do know that I didn't have a weld bead as wide as the ones on the Currie axles that I've looked at since, and I didn't have the brace.

I also believe there is a reason they put the brace on the bottom. While the inner C on one side broke loose, the weld was cracked for a couple of inches on the very bottom of the other side inner C. That is very likely how the broken side started, and it would not have happened with those braces like Currie and other builders use.

Of course, Currie builds housings to withstand very hard use. I didn't break mine rockcrawling, I broke it hauling ass and jumping over rough terrain and after a particularly hard jump. Last weekend on Fordyce Trail I broke the sector shaft on the steering box, and looking at the broken shaft it was already cracked about 40% through. I'm sure that damage was done the same time that I broke off the inner C.

[cyrus]

The contact surfaces of the axle tube and the inner c must be truly cylindrical and provide a press fit of about 2-3 thousanths of an inch. This will provide a stout mate between the two components, thus allowing the weld and press fir to share the loads seen on that location. Yes the ends are welded on the face as well as on the corner between tube and c, from the factory and any good axle builder.

[BrettM]

Last weekend on Fordyce Trail I broke the sector shaft on the steering box, and looking at the broken shaft it was already cracked about 40% through. I'm sure that damage was done the same time that I broke off the inner C.

what kind of trail fix did that take?

[Goatman]

what kind of trail fix did that take?

Two guys going back the 7 miles to get a spare steering box that I had in my trailer. Otherwise, I'd have been calling some of you guys looking for someone with a spare box. :)

We did some interesting wheeling while they were gone, decided to move on down the trail to find a good camp spot next to the river. We put a small loop of chain around each of the steering arms, then hooked the winch to which ever side needed to be pulled. We moved 1/3 to 1/2 mi down the trail steering my rig with the winch, while I just sat inside and worked the throttle.

[Goatman]

The contact surfaces of the axle tube and the inner c must be truly cylindrical and provide a press fit of about 2-3 thousanths of an inch. This will provide a stout mate between the two components, thus allowing the weld and press fir to share the loads seen on that location. Yes the ends are welded on the face as well as on the corner between tube and c, from the factory and any good axle builder.

Correct.....and your point is?

The inner C has to be heated to allow it to be pressed back onto the tube and put in the proper place...........at least when doing it in the garage, without a large axle press.

[Starboard M]

I also believe there is a reason they put the brace on the bottom. While the inner C on one side broke loose, the weld was cracked for a couple of inches on the very bottom of the other side inner C. That is very likely how the broken side started, and it would not have happened with those braces like Currie and other builders use.

Im curious as to why the brace should be put on the bottom of the axle tube. Wouldnt it have the same advantage as having it on the top? Or would the torque be applied differently?

[BrettM]

Im curious as to why the brace should be put on the bottom of the axle tube. Wouldnt it have the same advantage as having it on the top? Or would the torque be applied differently?
generally the forces are trying to bend the knuckle up and in, and the gusset is stronger in tension than compression. ideally a full axle truss would be under the axle, but for clearance reasons it is often put on the top. many baja/pre-runner trucks truss the bottom side since clearance isn't as much of a concern for them (vs. rockcrawling) and bending housings is a real problem.

[Goatman]

Im curious as to why the brace should be put on the bottom of the axle tube. Wouldnt it have the same advantage as having it on the top? Or would the torque be applied differently?

The forces against the knuckle would try to pull apart the weld at the bottom of the inner C, and the weld is weaker with forces pulling against it than it would be pushing against it. Plus, the inner C has a lip that sets against the end of the tube, so it can't be pushed in at the top. Nearly all the potential for coming apart is on the bottom.

While the inner C on one side broke loose, the weld was cracked for a couple of inches on the very bottom of the other side inner C. That is very likely how the broken side started, and it would not have happened with those braces like Currie and other builders use.

[Jeff 98XJ WI]

So, goatman is back from oblivion? :) What's this lip on the inner C that sets against the axle tube? I didn't have any lip that I can recall. I believe I could have pounded the inner C all the way on to the tube till the tube was sticking out from the inner C.

What are your thoughts on running a nice bead around the end of the tube and the inner C portion that sits right behind the u-joint? Other than making it much harder to remove the C, I don't see where there would be a problem with this AND it would effectively double the weld surface holding the inner C to the axle tube. One would want to chamfer the end of the tube and the edge of the inner C before welding it up, but again, it seems to me that would really help hold the inner C on. I'm not sure if Cyrus was saying that this is the way the factory does it, but I KNOW that when I removed the C's from my D44 front axle, there were NOT any welds on the end of the tube to the inner C. The only welds from the factory are between the inner portion of the inner C and the tube. Jeff

[cyrus]

I'm not sure if Cyrus was saying that this is the way the factory does it, but I KNOW that when I removed the C's from my D44 front axle, there were NOT any welds on the end of the tube to the inner C. The only welds from the factory are between the inner portion of the inner C and the tube. Jeff

the three D44's I've narrowed were welded on the inside and outside of the inner C. these were all out of 77-79 vintage fords.

I have a freind who workes for AAM. there's are all welded on the inner and outer edges of the c's, at least all the heavy stuff they build.

[Goatman]

So, goatman is back from oblivion? :) What's this lip on the inner C that sets against the axle tube? I didn't have any lip that I can recall. I believe I could have pounded the inner C all the way on to the tube till the tube was sticking out from the inner C.

What are your thoughts on running a nice bead around the end of the tube and the inner C portion that sits right behind the u-joint? Other than making it much harder to remove the C, I don't see where there would be a problem with this AND it would effectively double the weld surface holding the inner C to the axle tube. One would want to chamfer the end of the tube and the edge of the inner C before welding it up, but again, it seems to me that would really help hold the inner C on. I'm not sure if Cyrus was saying that this is the way the factory does it, but I KNOW that when I removed the C's from my D44 front axle, there were NOT any welds on the end of the tube to the inner C. The only welds from the factory are between the inner portion of the inner C and the tube. Jeff

Well, you got me there, Jeff.........it must be age. You're right, there isn't a lip on the inner C, I haven't spent much time on the computer lately and my memory is fadding. :)

I see no reason that you couldn't put a bead on the outside of the tube and the C, but I really don't think you'd have to. Inner C's breaking off isn't a common thing, and I really do think that adding a gusset on the bottom is all the insurance that's needed. The weld bead on mine was small compared to the Currie axles that I checked out, plus I didn't have the gusset, and I'm running 37's and abusing the hell out of it with fast desert runs and jumps, plus plenty of fairly quick trail work. More evidence of the abuse that my front end gets is that I've broken the steering box off the frame, with the frame reinforced AND running a steering brace......broke two bolts and one ear off the box, didn't hurt the frame at all. I also just broke a sector shaft, which showed that it was already cracked about 40% through.

[jeep_87_cherokee]

yea i got a real example of why you SHOULD NOT jump your jeep cherokee [ha ha ha] and a real reason YOU SHOULD gusset your C's is what you are calling them, i refer to them as inner knuckles or knuckle yokes, my jeep got some air time once and that was all it need to bent the inner knuckle - it is bent so much that the outside edge of the tires aren't touching the ground. if you stand in front of it and look at both the front tires you can see it BAD they are leaning in so much at the top, its retarded, i gotta get a photo of it on here so you know not what to do to a stock front axle, next i'm gonna change the inner knuckles to dana 30 style off a CJ then i can put some 44 knuckles on and some high steer, just whenever you got the axle out and got the welder buy gusset the inner knuckles