XJ Rear Brake Shoes any Brand Pref

[wilcharl]

Guys:

This is a follow up to my latest dealings with the rear brake lock up that XJs are infamous for:

My jeep has had way more sets of shoes then any vehicle should ever take

I started out wtih OE Mopar shoes that cracked and shatterd..
Those came off and I went with bendix... Same problem theree (both were organic)
I had the rear drum issue and I pulled them and I went with NAPA United Application Enginnered.... Still had thte rear lockup issue and soemthing else happend i forget why but those were pulled and now I am running Raybestos PG Plus ... I had a really nasty lockup with them and am probley gonna replace them... Any recomendations on what to try next... Im thinking Wagner Thermoquiet

does anyone know of a carbon metallic shoe for the xj... i see very few carbon met shoes out there

[langer1]

You have some kind of problem you need to fix, changing brands will not cure lockup.

[rstarch345]

Go to disc brakes. Problem solved.

[wilcharl]

The problem is a design problem of the braking system, What I am looking for is a shoe thats going to work the best even with the design issue at hand. I have had several cars that "liked" a certain brand of brakes over another... my mothers cadillac was one... her car would have severe rear pulsation and i finally talked to a cadillac mechanic who told me to go with Delco OEM (not durastop) shoes i thought he was crazy.... problem solved.... There was signifigent improvement over the bendix linings when I switched to the BPI/Napa/Raybestos shoes... At this point im tempted to go with the wagner linings... the organic pads are most def sensitive to moisture.

Id love to do a rear disc swap but its time prohibited, swaping shoes out is a 1 hr job

[87xjco]

I wonder if your e-brake cables are froze up or not returning all the way after e-brake is applied or adjusted too tight. Take the drum off and look at the top pin (round 3/4" radius) are both the shoes seated up tight against it? If that cable is not returning the back shoe or both will have a gap. Also have someone apply the e-brake and release, then make sure the shoes return tight against the pin. Hope that helps.

[87xjco]

The problem is a design problem of the braking system,

I don't think many people experience the symptoms you have to such a high degree. I can see saying there is a design flaw that makes it more common to happen on XJ's. But you obviously have something more going on then bad engineering. Otherwise all of us would go thru shoes like crazy and complain of locking up.

My .02 worth

[prb24]

You have some kind of problem you need to fix, changing brands will not cure lockup.


I've got to go with this one.

My rears do the lock-up thing about every 6 months. So, about every 6 months I either crawl underneath the XJ and adjust and clean the brakes. Fixes it everytime.

Might not be what your issue is, but replacing the shoes doesn't seem to be fixing the problem. Replacing the shoes also doesn't adjust the brakes.

My $0.02. (now we have $0.04!)

[wilcharl]

i may just not be thinking straight here... me replacing the shoes with SemiMetallic shoes made a notcibile differnce over organic ones, but my logic of replacing them again really doesnt...I think the reason the problem goes away after me previously replacing the shoes was not the shoe replacement but the fact that when i replaced them I adjusted them after replacment.... I just wanted to make sure I had the best shoes on there for the issue but, bottem line is i need to pull the drums, spray them down with brake parts cleaner and adjust them.... (been 2 yrs since that was last done)

[mrbill3]

Sounds like cleaning and adjusting is the way to go, but for what it's worth I will only use Wagner brake shoes and pads. I have been using them for over 20 years on several vehicles and haven't had one they "didn't like" yet.

[lazyxj]

Wilcharl

I had as similar thing happen in a Dodge pickup. The proportioning valve was bad and it was not reducing the pressure to the rear drums during hard braking.
Take a look at the link below and read about the symptoms of a bad proportioning valve. Does it sound familiar?

http://www.mpbrakes.com/mpfaqvalving.htm

[old_man]

Just a thought... Are you sure you have the leading and trailing shoes correct. If you swap them, they can cause the symptoms you are describing. Many people don't even realize that they are different. Get a picture and check them out. Don't just replace them the same way, they may have been wrong to start with. My daughter had that problem and they were put on by Midas.

[wilcharl]

I think the old man may have just hit the nail on the head...

WHen I got the jeep back in 96 the brakes were messed up and not done right.... I redid them following the setup that was on there... I always was unsure if the primary shoe was in the right positon.. so whats the right postion? I have searched but i really need a visual and ideally one for both sides... the shorter thin shoe i think is on the back which may be wrong....

[prb24]

Hope this helps...


http://go.jeep-xj.info/HowtoRearDrums1.htm


PB

[87xjco]

Long shoe goes in the rear. Good thinking Old Man. I also had a thought that someone may have adjusted the power booster rod that goes into the master cylinder too long. You'd be surprised on how easy just a little bit of additional lenght on that rod can make the brakes drag.

[wilcharl]

Guys if anyone is still folowing this:

I pulled the drums tonight and found the cause of my right rear wheel lockup the brake lining had delaminated from the shoe (rivited pad) and a good 1/3rd of the show was missing and chunks were floating around in the drum.... (Not good) but not bad either... pretty straight and easy fix... I ordered the wagner thermoquiet shoes from rockauto and I think they will be nice on there.. Anyone have an idea why the shoe delamniated like that .... everything was installed textbook perfect I was actually admiring the brake job i did (it was back in 00 and i was still in college and did it in my dorm parking lot *big no no*..) but it was well done everyhting had greese where it should be and everyhting was put together correct

[lazyxj]

Guys if anyone is still folowing this:

I pulled the drums tonight and found the cause of my right rear wheel lockup the brake lining had delaminated from the shoe (rivited pad) it t

Were the primary and secondary shoes in the right position?

[wilcharl]

Yep everything was right and squared away... i got some pics i may post everything looked good except for the delamination

[UNCC_99XJ]

i had lock up also and put a set of Napa remanufactured ones on there, no more problems since, been about a month, driving in plenty of rain (even some flooded underpass crossings, and a whole lot of heat....and i'm hard on my brakes. When I pulled mine apart I had found the left rear had completely worn out, down to the metal on the shoes (hence the pulling to the left while braking)....and the right one was on its way. Not sure why they wore un evenly like that, perhaps el cheap-o carmax brakes? Nothing seems to be sticking, fluid levels are good and clean, brake lines look good.

[F9K9]

I think the old man may have just hit the nail on the head...

WHen I got the jeep back in 96 the brakes were messed up and not done right.... I redid them following the setup that was on there... I always was unsure if the primary shoe was in the right positon.. so whats the right postion? I have searched but i really need a visual and ideally one for both sides... the shorter thin shoe i think is on the back which may be wrong....

I am in the midst of replacing mine. The axle is off being repaired but, I just want to confirm that the short lining is towards the rear? I took plenty of pics before disassembly but, don't know if it was correct in the first place. It's been 30 years since I messed with drum brakes.

TIA,

Reed

[Idiot Wind]

I am in the midst of replacing mine. The axle is off being repaired but, I just want to confirm that the short lining is towards the rear?
ya got it backwards

long shoe - rear
short shoe - front


P.S. nice job on the Search :)

[Rick Anderson]

The shoes rotate with the drum and "WEDGE" themselves into the drum to increase brake force, thus it requires less pedal force to get the same amount of braking force. Thats why there is different pressure differential valve/combo valves for rear drum or disc brakes. Also why, in the old days, big cars came with 4 wheel drum brakes and NO power booster, they were fully manual brakes and weighed 4000 lbs and you could still stop easily. Try stooping a 2500 lb, disc brake car with NO power boost, its a work out.

So, if you moving forward, and the anchor (the big solid strong post that the shoe butts up against) is at the top of the drum. Then the rear shoe is the one Wedging into the Drum the most with the most force. Thus, the shoe with the bigger lining should go at the rear. If you hit the brakes while going in reverse, then the shoes swing the other way and that smaller lining front shoe does most of the braking force.

Thats also how your self-adjusters work. The more wear on the shoes, the greater the gap between them and the drum, and the more the shoes swing with the drum when you apply the brakes in opposite directions of motion. The greater the swing of the shoes, the more of a tug by the cable that moves the little star wheel to adjust the drums. Thats why you have slam on your brakes while going in reverse to activate the self-adjusters. You have to apply the brakes again in forward motion to swing the shoes back, so you can repeat it again, if needed.

[89xj]

I am in the midst of replacing mine. The axle is off being repaired but, I just want to confirm that the short lining is towards the rear? I took plenty of pics before disassembly but, don't know if it was correct in the first place. It's been 30 years since I messed with drum brakes.

TIA,

Reed

if it helps, i remember by using: Bigger shoe goes on the Back