Just having a little fun....ouch!

[Goatman]

I went out for a few minutes yesterday to haul ass down some dirt roads in the foothills just out of town, to test some new rear bumpstops I just installed, and to get a feel again for my front springs and bumpstops. It works pretty well, still a touch stiff in the rear, but overall the best yet, and it can catch decent air with no hard landings. I hit one off camber bump a little hot and came down on the drivers front, still felt good but my passenger about pee'd in his pants. :)

A few miles down the road the front end did something funny when I hit the brakes to stop. I broke the weld on the inner C on the drivers side, and the knuckle rotated forward. Thankfully I wasn't going fast when it went and it didn't rip the brake line, though it loosened the banjo bolt enough for it to leak brake fluid. I had to call my daughter to come get us, go home and get the truck and trailer to get it home. Damn, just out having a few minutes of fun. :D

http://fototime.com/D532D85AE592DA5/standard.jpg
http://fototime.com/983DFBAD76670EF/standard.jpg

[JnJ]

Your weld? :D

[Goatman]

Unfortunately, I have no one else to blame.......I hate it when I have to learn the quality of my welds the hard way. :dunce:

Maybe there's a reason that Currie and most of the other axle builders add a gusset on the inner knuckles on the axles that they build. This will go back together with a good gusset, and I'll add one to the other side.



Of course, I could quit jumping it........................naw!!

:D

[David Taylor]

Time to weld on some 60 ends. With the coil overs you could just shorten the tube and keep the same wms you have now.

[Mr.OverKill]

what axle is it?? ( 30, 44, 60 )

[David Taylor]

what axle is it?? ( 30, 44, 60 )
44

[JeepFreak21]

http://www.slicky.net/smilies/eek3.gif And people complain about how difficult it is to turn knuckles!
Billy

[Mr.OverKill]

ok.

can i have a couple?:laugh3:

[CRASH]

Go IFS or go home.

CRASH

[Goatman]

Go IFS or go home.

CRASH

I've been working on an idea to make a long travel, high clearance twin traction beam Ford front end that should be good for both crawling and prerunning. Maybe we could collaborate for a new URF product.

We could call it the URF Trail Tough TTB.

[JnJ]

I've been working on an idea to make a long travel, high clearance twin traction beam Ford front end that should be good for both crawling and prerunning. Maybe we could collaborate for a new URF product.

We could call it the URF Trail Tough TTB.
URFTTTTB?

[Matt S.]

Its funny you said TTB. There was a guy in Phx who ran a ranger with full width TTB. But, he made his own axle housing and all that jazz. Worked really well (from what people told me) He did alot of crawling and desert running supposedly.

BTW, that knuckle carnage sucks.

[Hickey]

So, what welder did you use and what settings?

[ECKSJAY]

So, what welder did you use
I'll guess arc.

and what settings?
The wrong ones.

:laugh3:

[Goatman]

Well, I was quick to blame my welding, and while that still had to be partially to blame, once I got the knuckle lined back up to where it was it was easier to see the actual break. The break was very jagged through the weld bead, not just a clean break at the knuckle, and there was clean freshly broken metal from the outside of the bead through to the tube, all the way around. Bottom line, I'm sure I didn't get good enough penetration into the cast knuckle, or it didn't cool properly, but it still looked like a pretty decent weld. I know I hit that corner pretty hard at an angle with 37's........

I welded that whole front end with a stick, set hot. That knuckle is going back on with the MIG, and the torch to pre-heat and post-heat it. It's also getting a gusset, and I'll also add a gusset to the other side. Oh, and a two month old ball joint was loose on that same side..........D60 outers with 37's anyone?

[CRASH]

Well, I was quick to blame my welding, and while that still had to be partially to blame, once I got the knuckle lined back up to where it was it was easier to see the actual break. The break was very jagged through the weld bead, not just a clean break at the knuckle, and there was clean freshly broken metal from the outside of the bead through to the tube, all the way around. Bottom line, I'm sure I didn't get good enough penetration into the cast knuckle, or it didn't cool properly, but it still looked like a pretty decent weld. I know I hit that corner pretty hard at an angle with 37's........

I welded that whole front end with a stick, set hot. That knuckle is going back on with the MIG, and the torch to pre-heat and post-heat it. It's also getting a gusset, and I'll also add a gusset to the other side. Oh, and a two month old ball joint was loose on that same side..........D60 outers with 37's anyone?

I read on the internet that you could run 37's on a 44 without any trouble. You must have gotten a bum 44.

Oh, and the TTB thing is in the works. Switching my F-250 from the crappy leafs to coils with radius arms. I'm keeping the TTB though. Design work is done, fab starts upon my return from vacation.

Scored some bling-bling H-2 rims and tires from SeanP for the tow rig.

CRASH

86 F-250 on dubs.

[4ward]

D60 outers with 37's anyone?

Sounds like that may be a good direction for you to head, but it's going to add considerably to your unsprung weight. Your shocks are revalvable right?

I think you'd be better off still welding them back on with the stick, you're pretty good with it. Just do the preheat and then a piece of insulation wrapped around it for cool down. Seems to me that if you broke part of the weld and part of the cast your HAZ wasn't large enough. Although it may not matter as I wouldn't think they'd use cast iron for knuckles, only cast steel. Anybody know the answer to that one? I'm sure there are others on here that now the welding process better, but that's my .02.

Oh yeah, I'm pretty sure that gussets are mandatory when you start getting more than 6" of air.

[Goatman]

Sounds like that may be a good direction for you to head, but it's going to add considerably to your unsprung weight. Your shocks are revalvable right?

I think you'd be better off still welding them back on with the stick, you're pretty good with it. Just do the preheat and then a piece of insulation wrapped around it for cool down. Seems to me that if you broke part of the weld and part of the cast your HAZ wasn't large enough. Although it may not matter as I wouldn't think they'd use cast iron for knuckles, only cast steel. Anybody know the answer to that one? I'm sure there are others on here that now the welding process better, but that's my .02.

Oh yeah, I'm pretty sure that gussets are mandatory when you start getting more than 6" of air.

So, is the HAZ just the part of the metal that melted, including the weld bead, or just the penetration into the base metal? If you make multiple passes is that all still part of the heat affected zone?? I'm not much up on welding terminology, and marginal on technique.

And yes, sometimes I do still think I'm a better welder with the stick than with the MIG. Of course, I've already welded the inner knuckle back on with the MIG, a somewhat frustrating experience position welding around the tube while trying to burn it in good on a high temp setting into 1/2" steel tube and a cast (steel, I'm sure) knuckle. It sure was easier the first time when the housing was on the bench and I could rotate it as I welded around the tune.

I've been nearly talking myself out of using the coilovers on the front, but I may do them so I can get good gussets on the top of the tube, otherwise any gusset on top would interfere with my shock bolts.


I'm getting to where I just want to go wheeling....... :rattle:

:repair: :thumbdn:



:D

[Jes]

I'm getting to where I just want to go wheeling....... :rattle:

:repair: :thumbdn:



:D

The reason that my 7100s for the rear are still sitting on my bedroom floor. ;)

[CRASH]

"Just Wheeling" is quite a refreshing change from my past two summers! I like it!

CRASH

[Goatman]

Well, I finished getting it all back together tonight after work. I checked the other side, and guess what...........the weld was cracking for about 1.5-2" at the very bottom of the tube and inner knuckle. Made me think again about Currie and other custom axle builders that always put a gusset on the bottom......maybe they know something.

Both sides should be good to go now.

[SeanP]

http://www.slicky.net/smilies/eek3.gif And people complain about how difficult it is to turn knuckles!
Billy


No shiznit. Think about the life we took off of our rotator cuffs swinging the 3 pound sledge to rotate ours. This would have been the easy way.

Richard, try it with a welder and not a soldering iron this time :)

SeanP

[SeanP]

The reason that my 7100s for the rear are still sitting on my bedroom floor. ;)


And I rejected $300 cash for my big off road rear springs for the same reason. Links this winter, though.

SeanP

[Goatman]

And I rejected $300 cash for my big off road rear springs for the same reason. Links this winter, though.

SeanP

You turned down 300 clams for your BOR's?

Man, that twice what they're worth.



:D

[moneypitxj]

when you weld the axle housing u again. pre-heat weld post-heat then cool in sand. thats the best way to cool cast down.

[JeepFreak21]

You turned down 300 clams for your BOR's?

Man, that twice what they're worth.


:D



What do ya mean?! They've only been used once! :laugh3:
Billy

[Goatman]

when you weld the axle housing u again. pre-heat weld post-heat then cool in sand. thats the best way to cool cast down.

Never heard that before...... :)

It's a little hard to bury a complete front axle housing in the sand. It's even harder when it's still attached to the Jeep........

[4ward]

Never heard that before...... :)

It's a little hard to bury a complete front axle housing in the sand. It's even harder when it's still attached to the Jeep........

Yep, people do it all the time. I've been thinking about digging a sand pit myself. You could just weld it up and then slam it straight into the side of a dune :laugh3:

The HAZ is the entire area that has been discolored. Ya know, the pretty blue/purple area that's left after a good hot burn. You want to keep it as small as possible, but sometimes it has to be larger just so you can get the required heat into the welded area. I think it's time for you to buy a tig welder :wave: I've been using 312 stainless filler lately and it's sweet.

[CRASH]

What do ya mean?! They've only been used once! :laugh3:
Billy

Now that is just cold.......especially from a guy who sold his junk last year!

[JeepFreak21]

Now that is just cold.......especially from a guy who sold his junk last year!

:laugh2:

[Goatman]

Well, my 4 month old ball joints are toast, on both sides. I got a nice case of DW on the way to work this morning, and again on the way home. That's a first for me in this rig. Don't have time to change them since I'm leavng in the morning, so I'll hope for the best.......and I'm carrying new ones.

The ball joints are Moog from Car Quest, and this set lasted 4 months, the previous set lasted 3 years. I'm trying Spicer's this time, so we'll see how they hold up.

I'm going to have to either go back to 35's or slow the f#ck down. :rattle:



Hmmm.....maybe I need to keep my eyes open for a discarded D60 housing from a warrenty job at work.........and then save up for some 5 lug hubs. :)

[CRASH]

Well, my 4 month old ball joints are toast, on both sides. I got a nice case of DW on the way to work this morning, and again on the way home. That's a first for me in this rig. Don't have time to change them since I'm leavng in the morning, so I'll hope for the best.......and I'm carrying new ones.



The ball joints are Moog from Car Quest, and this set lasted 4 months, the previous set lasted 3 years. I'm trying Spicer's this time, so we'll see how they hold up.

I'm going to have to either go back to 35's or slow the f#ck down. :rattle:



Hmmm.....maybe I need to keep my eyes open for a discarded D60 housing from a warrenty job at work.........and then save up for some 5 lug hubs. :)


MY original ones from the 44 build 4 years ago are still very, very tight. I was goig to buy new ones for my new SuperKnuckles, but decided the old ones were still perfect.

Oh, and regarding DW, you need drop brackets or a long arm. Contact URF for details. :D

CRASH

[Big Red]

[QUOTE=Goatman]I'm going to have to either go back to 35's or slow the f#ck down. :rattle:
QUOTE]

It should be easy to trade your 37's for 35's if you want down the road. I just sold my set of 35" MTRs yesterday. 37's are what 35's were just a few years ago, the tire size keeps going up as does the need for 60's. :)

[Lawn Cher']

Here'a a clue, BigRed...

























Goatman was kidding!

[langer1]

If it's a cast knuckle you will never get a good weld, and stick has much better penetration than a mig.


If the tube broke and not the weld, it was hardened by the carbon in the casting.

You also need a high nickel rod made for cast iron to steel such as Nirod.
BTW I think it forged steel not cast, but still sticks the way to go with the proper rod.

[BrettM]

why does everyone assume that whenever they see "cast" it means "cast iron"? They are cast steel, just like most diff housings, and are not all that difficult to weld, just give a little extra attention to pre and post heat.

[Mr.OverKill]

why does everyone assume that whenever they see "cast" it means "cast iron"? They are cast steel, just like most diff housings, and are not all that difficult to weld, just give a little extra attention to pre and post heat.aint that the truth:exclamati :exclamati :exclamati

[langer1]

why does everyone assume that whenever they see "cast" it means "cast iron"? They are cast steel, just like most diff housings, and are not all that difficult to weld, just give a little extra attention to pre and post heat.
I did't say cast iron, but you sure right about the pre-heat and controlled cool down.

[JnJ]

[color=black]

You also need a high nickel rod made for cast iron to steel such as Nirod.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :gag:

[Goatman]

If it's a cast knuckle you will never get a good weld, and stick has much better penetration than a mig.


Damn, I wonder what Spicer and all the other OEM axle manufacturers do to weld these things up at the factory. I bet they use robotic stick welders with high nickel rod.....what do you guys think? And I bet they have a high failure rate since you can't really weld to cast.

And, I wonder how Currie, Dynatrac, Tri-County Gear, Wagoner Machine, and a whole bunch of other good quality aftermarket axle makers do to attach the inner C's to the axle tubes........they must use Super Glue!





BTW, after inspecting a few Currie built front axle housings this weekend, I could see that my weld bead wasn't close to the size of the beads on the Currie built housings, so that's one contributing factor. Also, all the Currie housings have a good gusset at the bottom of the inner C. I think if mine would have had a similar gusset it would not have come apart, since the cracking started at the bottom. The new weld is a much larger bead area, and it was done with a MIG. :gag: There will also be good gussets on the bottom.

Always learning.....even if not by choice.

[langer1]

There is a MIG setup that will offer both strength and penetration
called Inner-shield it uses wire with a flux core and gas shielding.





This wire comes with the same AWS numbers as their stick counter part. This setup also can be reverse or straight polarity, which standard MIG can’t.



The last way and perhaps best would be TIG.



Looking at the failed weld, make sure that when you re-weld you leave a 1/6 gap and the end of the tube where it seats in the knuckle to allow for expansion.

I have seen good welds fail just like your picture because the tube was seated to deep. Also more wield is not necessarily a better wield.

[JeepFreak21]

You guys sure we want this forum open to everybody? :gag:
Billy

[Goatman]

Well, I guess I should answer this. I've written a couple of responses and then deleted them. :)

I guess he thinks I'm in kindergarten...........but it sounds like he is.


If it's a cast knuckle you will never get a good weld, and stick has much better penetration than a mig.

There is a MIG setup that will offer both strength and penetration called Inner-shield it uses wire with a flux core and gas shielding. This wire comes with the same AWS numbers as their stick counter part. This setup also can be reverse or straight polarity, which standard MIG can’t.

The last way and perhaps best would be TIG.

Ok, so make up your mind. You say I should use a stick....oh, but flux core wire in a MIG is just as good........but wait, TIG would be even better. :rolleyes:

I guess for some reason I thought gas shielding with actual gas was usually better than welding with flux core, if the wind wasn't blowing too much. I didn't realize that you could weld reverse polarity with flux core, unlike my standard Miller 185 MIG with gas.........oh wait, I can weld reverse polarity with my Miller, even if I don't use flux core wire (I have no idea why I would want to weld with flux core, when I can weld with real gas). Hmmm........


Looking at the failed weld, make sure that when you re-weld you leave a 1/6 gap and the end of the tube where it seats in the knuckle to allow for expansion. I have seen good welds fail just like your picture because the tube was seated to deep.

Now, I have never heard this before. I would be tempted to listen to this advice, except for two reasons, actually three. First reason is that the previous advice is questionable at best, and innacurate at worst. Second reason is that I have no idea what expertise you have to make such comments, and some of your comments would suggest that you have no experince whatsoever. Third, I have trouble believing that an inner knuckle will expand 1/6" in it's cross section when preheated, with a very tight fit on 1/2" tube, yet you say you've seen them........maybe you could clue us in on your experince.

I don't mind learning, it's one of the reasons that many of us participate here, but you're going to have to make a lot more sense than you have so far if you want to teach us anything.

[JnJ]

Most of that looked "cut and paste"..........

[langer1]

As you can see It's been many years since I was a certified pressure pipe welder, I'm sure I have some of my term's mixed up.

As I was writing about the inter-shield system that was used in our shop, I also remembered our Aero-motive division that used TIG for all tube to socket welds.



Some weld shop can get spacer rings to set the expansion gap at the end of the tube

These are handy where close alignment is needed any supply house that sells pressure pipe and weld fittings will have them for sure.



I will see if I can find something on the inter-shield setup, you can’t actually do it with a MIG power supply.
I don’t think it is even call MIG but it uses CO2 and a wire with a flux core. Our wire came in 300# 55 gal drums. I don’t even remember the brand because they bought what ever was the best price.

But one thing for sure we were never allowed to use a MIG for that weld it's right in the AWS specifications for tube to socket welds.



If you pre-heated your weld and knuckle first I think it would be ok, I would worry though about the ball-joint bore becoming to large. Just something to think about.

Darn it I knew I would get it screewed up it.s outer shield here's a link to just one wire type.
http://www.mylincolnelectric.com/Catalog/consumabledatasheet.asp?p=5717
It's AWS (FCAW_GC) not MIG

[langer1]

Most of that looked "cut and paste"..........
Thanks I didn't know I was that good.:laugh3:

[Lincoln]

Richard don't be so quick to pick on dough head here. He does have a little validity.

http://www.lincolnelectric.com/products/ultracore/

You can feed it though a normal MIG as long as it will feed .045 wire. I've always heard it called "double shield". It's a special flux core wire with a gas shield and it was used for a higher penetration.

Since I'm lucky to get two pieces of metal together I'll regurgitate some info from some of the so called "professionals" I harass.

1. Mixed gas gives the prettiest bead and lowest penetration.
2. Straight CO2 is higher penetration with more weld splatter.
3. Flux gives a higher penetration but has the most splatter and the flux needs to be chipped off.
4. Double shield is the highest penetration and the outter shield of gas keeps the splatter down.

Isn't Kid a professional. Where the hell is he?

That being said here is some more info:
1. You have beat on that poor axle for around 4 years now.
2. Your original welds were probably not the best.
3. You have beet on that poor axle for around 4 years now.

The weld is basically there to keep the assembly from rotating. That is why the knuckle is pressed on to the tube and not a loose fit. If it was a slip joint the weld would become more critical and I bet there would be a lot more broken ones out there. The full penetration of the weld with all the pre and post heating would be required. I bet the weld broke because of the constant beating you've provided and the inner C was flexing combined with a lower quality weld (weighted much more towards the flexing C)

If it does it again I would think about some Crane inners just because there is a little more material to reduce some of the flex. I'm surprised you haven't bent and inner C, knuckle, or something else. You may have and that is what caused you to trash your ball joints in 4 months. When you put in the new ball joints did the adjuster look like it was recessed much different than before?

[Goatman]

langer, the background info helps, plus the clarification of terms. We get so many ill-informed comments around here that sometimes we have to seperate the wheat from the chaff, so to speak.

I was worried about the ball joints when pre- and post-heating things, but I didn't think it was worth it to completely disassemble everything, so I took my chances. It is possible that I damaged the ball joints enough to ruin them, as the first time I drove it after re-welding the knuckles they were bad. Of course, it was also the first time I drove it since I broke it, so nothing conclusive there. I figured if it didn't get hot enough to melt the grease out of the ball joint then it wouldn't have damaged them, but no way to know for sure.

After a good inspection of Paul, Dave, and Cracker's Currie built front ends this last weekend, I could easily see that the width of my original weld beads were not as wide as the Currie's were, plus the fairly large gussets at the bottom that I didn't have. Since mine started cracking on the bottom, evidenced by the 1.5" crack on the side that didn't break, I really do think that if I had the gussets I still would have been alright, even with the probability of my substandard welding.

I have talked to a number of off road racing guys, and most of them are running the 37" tires, and they also have trouble with ball joints and front end parts. I have used Moog ball joints, and I have four new Spicer ball joints that I'm going to install and see how they hold up. Plus, the off road guys don't have a massive front bumper and a winch.........

Hybrid.....hybrid.....hybrid.......or quit jumping it. :D

[FarmerMatt]

Hybrid.....hybrid.....hybrid.......or quit jumping it. :D
Either that or you "friends" are going to hold an intervention & knock you down a couple tire sizes. Speaking of "friends", I couldn't believe that Paul, Andy, Jes, & Dave would TP your truck like that...

[Jes]

Speaking of "friends", I couldn't believe that Paul, Andy, Jes, & Dave would TP your truck like that...


I had nothing to do with that.

[CRASH]

I had nothing to do with that.


Ditto.

If I had TPed his truck, there would have been a bigger "surprise" waiting under the TP.

CRASH

[FarmerMatt]

Ditto.

If I had TPed his truck, there would have been a bigger "surprise" waiting under the TP.

CRASH
Wrong Andy dipwad. If you would actually come on a run than you'd know that. I am referring to, Andy, the honerable & respected Mr. Puppy.

Matt

[Lawn Cher']

Wrong Andy, dipwad. If you would actually come on a run than you'd know that.

Hey, some of us prefer to web wheel. What would NAXJA be without the webwheeling community?

[David Taylor]

I couldn't believe that Paul, Andy, Jes, & Dave would TP your truck like that...

As far as I know, it was none of the above.

[Captain Ron]

Richard don't be so quick to pick on dough head here. He does have a little validity.

http://www.lincolnelectric.com/products/ultracore/

You can feed it though a normal MIG as long as it will feed .045 wire. I've always heard it called "double shield". It's a special flux core wire with a gas shield and it was used for a higher penetration.

....

Most of those products were developed in the shipbuilding industry. Pretty extreme set of parameters involved. Got Amps?

TIG and Silicone Bronze, or go home :D

--ron

[Porch Puppy]

Matt did you do it... :nono:

[Goatman]

Speaking of "friends", I couldn't believe that Paul, Andy, Jes, & Dave would TP your truck like that...

I figure Sharkboy had something to do with it..........

Not that I didn't have it coming, but I've never heard a more lame excuse for not wanting to run a scary little obstacle.

:D


BTW, we should move this discussion over to the Swamp thread. :)

[Lincoln]

Most of those products were developed in the shipbuilding industry. Pretty extreme set of parameters involved. Got Amps?

TIG and Silicone Bronze, or go home :D

--ron

I've seen it ran on a 250 amp machine, but I finally got to see a real welder last week.

1800 amps pushing .25" :eek: wire. Welds 200' a day.

[Lincoln]

Richard, I bet you still have wear issues with king pins but probably not as much. Speed kills unless it is snorted. I was told the gusset was more for keeping the C from bending rather than supporting the joint. :dunno:

If those get loose quick I would definately check for a bent C. That would probably cause enough missalignment to cause problems with the hubs also.

I wonder if any of your recent problems are agrivated by that or the toasted housing? I looked at a set of Toy hubs the other day that had some nice wear in the hubs from a bent housing. You could see where the stub was trying to hog the splines out in the hub.

[Captain Ron]

I've seen it ran on a 250 amp machine, but I finally got to see a real welder last week.

1800 amps pushing .25" :eek: wire. Welds 200' a day.

Quite impressive.

Somehow, 250 amps and .045 or .052 wire reminds me of shorting out a "D" cell :D

--ron

[FarmerMatt]

Matt did you do it... :nono:
How can you insinuate such a thing! I am incapable of such barbaric acts. You, sir, offend me.

[Lincoln]

I am incapable of such barbaric acts.

Could we call that lazyness?

[cracker]

I figure Sharkboy had something to do with it..........



Yeah...........there you go.

[xuv-this]

might be a stupid question goatman, but you DID use a rod for cast, didn't you? high nickel, about 3 bucks a peice- you don't want to buy a pound($$$) and you don't want to preheat it...it's cast.
my bad if you all know this stuff already.

[CRASH]

might be a stupid question goatman, but you DID use a rod for cast, didn't you? high nickel, about 3 bucks a peice- you don't want to buy a pound($$$) and you don't want to preheat it...it's cast.
my bad if you all know this stuff already.

Preheating works like a champ on cast, burns a lot of stuff out of the pores that you normally can't get out. I've always pre-heated knuckles and center sections before welding to them, then give it a post heat to keep the parts cooling slowly. Never cracked a weld, and I've done plenty of welding to cast iron and cast steel........

[4ward]

Preheating works like a champ on cast, burns a lot of stuff out of the pores that you normally can't get out. I've always pre-heated knuckles and center sections before welding to them, then give it a post heat to keep the parts cooling slowly. Never cracked a weld, and I've done plenty of welding to cast iron and cast steel........

I'd like to ditto this statement. xuv- wanna tell us where your info comes from?

[xuv-this]

you can heat it up in the cleaning stage, but i've been told by several welders that if you gotta pre heat it to weld it, you aren't running near enough amps. it makes the weld not want to stick well, and the cast around it will temper differently and crack under stress. i've just been led to the belief that it's a big no no. i've never tried to do it that way, and i don't plan to. :)

[langer1]

you can heat it up in the cleaning stage, but i've been told by several welders that if you gotta pre heat it to weld it, you aren't running near enough amps. it makes the weld not want to stick well, and the cast around it will temper differently and crack under stress. i've just been led to the belief that it's a big no no. i've never tried to do it that way, and i don't plan to. :)
Pre-Heating and slow controlled cooling is to relieve stress, and your welding friends are wrong.

[Goatman]

I have a habit of taking advice from people who have personal experience, not from those who repeat something they've heard. I also was told by a good friend who was a certified heavy construction welder, and he told me the same thing, then those around here with experience confirmed it. I'll continue to pre-heat and post-heat when welding to cast.

I've found that recreational welding is similar to trail driving. At first you take your time and really think things through, and proceed slowly, then after you get more experience you tend to not be so deliberate and don't think as carefully, and speed things up a bit........which can get you in trouble both welding and driving difficult trail obstacles.

[FarmerMatt]

I've found that recreational welding is similar to trail driving. At first you take your time and really think things through, and proceed slowly, then after you get more experience you tend to not be so deliberate and don't think as carefully, and speed things up a bit........which can get you in trouble both welding and driving difficult trail obstacles.

Amen & pass the gravy.

[xuv-this]

I have a habit of taking advice from people who have personal experience, not from those who repeat something they've heard. I also was told by a good friend who was a certified heavy construction welder, and he told me the same thing, then those around here with experience confirmed it. I'll continue to pre-heat and post-heat when welding to cast.

I've found that recreational welding is similar to trail driving. At first you take your time and really think things through, and proceed slowly, then after you get more experience you tend to not be so deliberate and don't think as carefully, and speed things up a bit........which can get you in trouble both welding and driving difficult trail obstacles. the guy that i first bought cast rods from was a 60 year old mining equipment repairer. my old man can weld better than pretty much everybody here(no offense but you have to see his work). i'm not talking about jeep axles either. i'm talking about adding metal to machine into teeth for a gear inside a pto for restoring a 65ish year old oliver tractor that sees use. or modifing a cast motor mount for dropping a cat desiel into a old ford dumptruck. stuff like that. i guess i'm not saying that you all are wrong, but i know for damn sure that these people know what they're talking about. i'm not near that good, and probably never will be. heat probably works on a large scale, when enough power to otherwise weld would mean shutting down a city block and using a (probably nonexistant) rod that weighs like 40 lbs. just a guess but i bet they run a lot of beads on the same spot. i have seen people heat pretty big forged stuff that would otherwise not be possible to weld without some insane equipment. personally, i won't touch a stick to cast. but i do know that for the quality of some of the stuff i've seen, i would stick to using the method i have been shown to do it, if humanely possible:) .

[xuv-this]

ok. i asked my father about this a little while ago, and he said that for most of the stuff that people do on axles and such with dc, preheating is fine. the stuff he usually tinkers with is sometimes pretty tedious work. some time when my lazy butt gets around to figuring out how to work this darn digital camera stuff i will post pics of my project, and some of the stuff he's done.:)

[MaXJohnson]

my old man can weld better than pretty much everybody here(no offense but you have to see his work)...

no offense, but have you seen the work of everybody here to make this comparison?

[xuv-this]

true, i do not know what a lot of you have done. so i cannot call that a fair comparison. by the looks of that broken weld, i would guess dc was used and it looks like it was not hot enough, or at the best angle. that's just my .02 oh, and i do not mean to come across like a know it all, if i sounded that way.

[Mr.OverKill]

oh, and i do not mean to come across like a know it all, if i sounded that way. you did! and i hazard to guess, you Dont.:laugh3: