Draveshaft disc parking brake

[tealcherokee]

kinda like high angle drive line makes, but its incorporated with a hack and tap style SYE

http://tehbaron.com/r_images/syed.jpg

was thinking about it last night so i made it in cad just to see....im thinking about something like this for my rig

[cruzmyxj]

I've been thinking of the exact same thing. I was actually thinking of using the hole brake setup off of a motorcycle. I think I could turn the rotor down some, redrill to match the H&T bolt pattern, and use the hydralic brake system, caliper, reservoir/master cylinder. I've actually been looking at some and motorcycle master cylinder/reservoirs are one unit with a operating rod that is pushed by the brake handle. I think I could fab a longer rod, attach it with a pivot point on a parking brake handle, and keep the ratchet lock of the parking brake handle. You could then lock fluid pressure on the brake. Or hold the button and use it as a stand alone driveline brake. That way there would be no chance of messing up the standard brake system. Any other input.

[tealcherokee]

yeah, thats exactally what i was going to do, w/ the hydro motorcycle brake.....

youll prolly get around to doing it b4 i do, i need to make it run b4 i worry about a parking brake, let me know if you try anything w/ it

[JeepFreak21]

The hard part is going to be mounting the caliper if you have an aluminum t-case. I've got a few pics of homebrew jobs... I'll post them when I get home.
Billy

[REDXJ4FUN]

FYI many states wount except a hydro E-brake it must be mechanical.

[cmotsvt]

You'd want to make sure and have the confabulation balanced.

[JeepFreak21]

You'd want to make sure and have the confabulation balanced.

Confabulation? (http://www.answers.com/confabulation&r=67) :confused:
Billy

[tealcherokee]

nothing on my jeep is legal anymore......so i dont care if my brake is hydro...

about the balancing, if its annoying to drive, i might fix it

[cmotsvt]

A confabulation is a contraption before it has been contraptified. Something that has been imaginified but not builtified.

[Chancer]

A confabulation is a contraption before it has been contraptified. Something that has been imaginified but not builtified.
Thankyou for elucidating that, Mr Bush... :)

[cruzmyxj]

FYI many states wount except a hydro E-brake it must be mechanical.
I had no intintions of doing away with the mechanical parking brake. I was just goin to add another.

[JeepFreak21]

Here are those pics I promised:

http://www.slicky.net/4x4/231new03.jpg

http://www.slicky.net/4x4/231new2003.jpg

http://www.slicky.net/4x4/ebrakedone.jpg

http://www.slicky.net/4x4/ebrakepic.jpg

http://www.slicky.net/4x4/new23120032.jpg

[cmotsvt]

Ooooh purdy!
Didnt some old big rigs use the similar setup?

[JeepFreak21]

Ooooh purdy!
Didnt some old big rigs use the similar setup?

A lot of bigger truck chassis (E30, P37, etc) have a ebrake on the tranny output (2WD), but it's usually a drum.
Billy

[cruzmyxj]

The army duece and a half which is were all those purdy 21/2 rockwells come from, had a drum on the output of the t-case with a shoe that clamped onto the outside of the drum. Not really a drumb brake, and not really a disk brake, kinda a bastardsystem

[Lawn Cher']

The army duece and a half which is were all those purdy 21/2 rockwells come from, had a drum on the output of the t-case with a shoe that clamped onto the outside of the drum. Not really a drumb brake, and not really a disk brake, kinda a bastardsystem

I believe that system is called a band brake.

[Roll-over]

I believe that system is called a band brake.

Yep, and it's used on some heavy equipment also. The advantage is that the systems become totally seperate.

[vegard]

Arent there some mechanical disc brake calipers availiable somewhere? meant to be used in addition to the regular calipers in the rear. Maybe theres a car in the junkyard somewhere that has them. Anyway, heres an article on this stuff:
http://www.4x4wire.com/toyota/reviews/parking_brake/

[Spudboy]

IIRC, the early to mid-60's B-body Dodges and Plymouths with automatic transmissions had the parking brake mounted on the tranny tailhousing. I can't remember for sure if it was a band brake or shoes, but I think it was shoes. Those might be too hard to find and valuable to be modified to fit on a XJ, but they are out there.

[DrMoab]

One thing to remember also with this set up. If you are not fully locked and on a slick surface...mud,ice,ect. And one wheel is on that slick surface your vehicle WILL roll away. Or if you set the brake and jack one wheel up it can roll. Just something to keep in mind.

[cruzmyxj]

Here are those pics I promised:

http://www.slicky.net/4x4/231new03.jpg

http://www.slicky.net/4x4/231new2003.jpg

http://www.slicky.net/4x4/ebrakedone.jpg

http://www.slicky.net/4x4/ebrakepic.jpg

http://www.slicky.net/4x4/new23120032.jpg
It looks like your caliper started on the side and got rotated to the bottom. Was there a clearance issue? Did you think that being on the bottom would better protect the rotor from trail damage? Is the caliper cable operated or hydralic? Odd looking caliper, did the setup come in some kind of kit? If not were did you get the caliper and rotor? Any driveline vibes? Even though it looks like there is a spot for a fourth bolt it only appears that there are three holding the rotor on. Any clearance issues with the bolt shanks behind the drive shaft flange? TY.

[vegard]

I was thinking I might make my own SYE (89XJ) and fabricate a tailcone with a caliper mount on it. I like this idea. I just read okie terry's SYE, and I could do something similar pretty easily. Hmmmm. some calipers Im thinking about:
http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=452492&prmenbr=361
http://www.tsmmfg.com/7211.htm
http://www.tsmmfg.com/7210.htm

I have some motorcycle discs at work.....

My parking brake cables are short at the moment, and it would make axle swaps easier. I think I might have to do this.

- Vegard

[Cherokee91Red]

I might be out of it here having little idea about strength or legality of it. But instead of a standard disc brake on the output shaft as a parking brake. Would a mechanism similar to that used on steering columns be feasible? Like have a disk with holes stamped through it, and then a pin that slides and locks in the holes. Would this be a possible scenario?

[cruzmyxj]

I might be out of it here having little idea about strength or legality of it. But instead of a standard disc brake on the output shaft as a parking brake. Would a mechanism similar to that used on steering columns be feasible? Like have a disk with holes stamped through it, and then a pin that slides and locks in the holes. Would this be a possible scenario?
Well as far as strength, I would have to say it would be pretty strong. You are breaking above the gear reduction of the differentials. So multiply your braking force by the gear reduction and I think you will see you have an excessive amount of force to keep the tires from rotating. As far as legality, I will state this once again. I have no plans to REMOVE THE STOCK PARKING BRAKE. I will keep the cable operated parking brakes for legality and add the drive line brake with a seperate braking handle strictly for off road use.

[JeepFreak21]

It looks like your caliper started on the side and got rotated to the bottom. Was there a clearance issue? Did you think that being on the bottom would better protect the rotor from trail damage? Is the caliper cable operated or hydralic? Odd looking caliper, did the setup come in some kind of kit? If not were did you get the caliper and rotor? Any driveline vibes? Even though it looks like there is a spot for a fourth bolt it only appears that there are three holding the rotor on. Any clearance issues with the bolt shanks behind the drive shaft flange? TY.

It's not mine, I believe I found those pics on the Pirate Board. I seem to remember that being a caliper for a shifter cart... which would make it cable actuated.
Billy

[badron]

A front wheel line-lock will hold better then any thing you can put on the drive shaft. Manly because it include the heavier front end. I have seen trucks sliding in dirt down a hill with the rear wheel locked up all the way to the bottom.

[cruzmyxj]

A front wheel line-lock will hold better then any thing you can put on the drive shaft. Manly because it include the heavier front end. I have seen trucks sliding in dirt down a hill with the rear wheel locked up all the way to the bottom.
Um, pull the T-case shift lever, engage the Ox Locker, and set the hydralic parking brake on the T-case output. Now all four wheels are locked. If a tire tries to roll, it has to turn the drive shafts. They are locked by the brake on the T-case. Besides, it's about fabbing it myself, not getting a line lock from Summit, and bolting it in.

[vegard]

I ordered this caliper:
http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=452492&prmenbr=361

got a front driveshaft at the yard, grabbed a motorcycle disc, and Im pulling the case this afternoon. I figure Ill sneak in some personal machining at work this week, and get the hoimemade SYE done.

I think that one of the great things that I will be able to do with this is use the same calipers on both axles, which would be awesome.

- Vegard

[JeepFreak21]

A front wheel line-lock will hold better then any thing you can put on the drive shaft.

For how long?
Billy

[badron]

------------------------------------
For how long?
-------------------------------------
Line-locks don't bleed down. Not like they did at one time any way. Or as long as you keep your brakes up if that's what you mean. They will work even if you drop a shaft. Blow a transfer, or spin a hub. Twist an axle off (not as big a problem with a locker) The LL will most likely still work at 100% Will the band brake be at 100% if any of them things happen? But Im wasting my time. You got you head set on a shine new gismo and will shoot down any new idea. No mater how good it works.

[cruzmyxj]

You got you head set on a shine new gismo and will shoot down any new idea. No mater how good it works.

Or the inverse is in order and you have your head set on 40 year old technology that is a simple bolt in, and will shoot down any shinny new gismo. No matter how good it works.

[badron]

---------------------------------------------------
Or the inverse is in order and you have your head set on 40 year old technology that is a simple bolt in, and will shoot down any shinny new gismo. No matter how good it works.
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IM not sure what age has to do with it. This may not be the right forum being it's a bolt on idea. But I was try to show a deferent way of doing it. Hard to do from an other forum. The band brake is main brake system independent but is very drive train dependent. The LL is just the opposite. If the bolt-on thing is a problem. Make your own line lock.

[vegard]

The point is 1st to have a redundant system, where there is a mechanical backup in case of hydraulic failure. This also passes inspection, where a linelock would not. And if it ends up being a really shiny gizmo... who could resist?

- Vegard

[vegard]

A little update:
I made the disc, and I am waiting on the caliper to build the tailcone.

http://www.wam.umd.edu/~vegard/Pictures/jeep/DSbrake.JPG

[JeepFreak21]

A little update:
I made the disc, and I am waiting on the caliper to build the tailcone.

http://www.wam.umd.edu/~vegard/Pictures/jeep/DSbrake.JPG


The piece on the left is part of your SYE? If so, what brand?
Billy

[vegard]

thats actually an extra front yoke. Im planning to build an sye, much like Okie Terry, using a side gear from a d-35 welded into that yoke. And I have spare front driveshaft I hope to use.

[vegard]

Okie Terry's thread that inspired this:
http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=38907&highlight=okiefab+sye
(thanks!!)

[tealcherokee]

well, my 8.8 and h&t are going in soon, so hopefully ill get this working, i hate being w/o a parking brake

[JLane99XJ]

Here are those pics I promised:

http://www.slicky.net/4x4/231new03.jpg

http://www.slicky.net/4x4/231new2003.jpg

http://www.slicky.net/4x4/ebrakedone.jpg

http://www.slicky.net/4x4/ebrakepic.jpg

http://www.slicky.net/4x4/new23120032.jpg


Holy Big Brake Batman

how much room is under that Jeep of yours??

[xuv-this]

i like the idea, but not for an ebrake.


The army duece and a half which is were all those purdy 21/2 rockwells come from, had a drum on the output of the t-case with a shoe that clamped onto the outside of the drum. Not really a drumb brake, and not really a disk brake, kinda a bastardsystem
that's right. some hemmit's have them, too. they shine in loose sand. but every unit in the army mandates chock blocks when the vehicle is parked. any vehicle. for the 5 min. it takes to make a couple from a wood block; vs. risking all the $ and time put into our rigs...i would make a couple. plus it doubles as a lift spacer for a jack.:)

[cruzmyxj]

i like the idea, but not for an ebrake.



that's right. some hemmit's have them, too. they shine in loose sand. but every unit in the army mandates chock blocks when the vehicle is parked. any vehicle. for the 5 min. it takes to make a couple from a wood block; vs. risking all the $ and time put into our rigs...i would make a couple. plus it doubles as a lift spacer for a jack.:)
Really, my ten plus years in the Army, and Army Guard I would have never known that. However, if you go back through the thread, and read the post, I have said several times, I do not intend to remove the mechanical parking brake. I sometimes exit the Jeep when it is in rather off camber positions to hook up the winch. At some of these times, I just want a little extra braking. The down side to a chock block, is you have to exit the vehicle to use it. I just got back from Iraq, and we had one duece that the TC had to get out and put the chock block down every time you stopped because the band brake didn't work, and maintence had more important things to do.

[xuv-this]

the TC had to get out and put the chock block down every time you stopped because the band brake didn't work, and maintence had more important things to do.
that's kinda funny. i guess some things don't change...
we used them in addition to the crappy parking brakes. but i have experienced the joy of laughing at my top (who always bitched about putting them down) for forgetting his at 3:00 one morning while lining up the convoy, and the ebrake on his humv failed. it backed down about 15m into my 113. my squad leader was tc and asked me if we were moving. it broke his soft top and woke up the lazy medic in the back. then he later bitched at his driver (who was at pldc) for not doing pm on it. :D