Holy Cross overnighter

[YELLAHEEP]

For those of you that haven't done Holy Cross Trail before - and/or haven't done the overnight stay before, here's some helpful information:

I expect that this will be a popular run and will involve a large group, so I'd like everyone to be well prepared.

Road to the trail head:
Once off the highway, there's about 3 miles of dry, dusty, washboard road. The washboard can be awfully rough so if you don't have everything good and tight, you'll likely find out what's loose here. We'll probably air down before the dirt road to make the washboard less harsh.

The Trail:
This trail is an "in and out" trail, not a loop which means the obstacles will be run twice. If you value your stock bumpers, untrimmed flares/fenders and unprotected rockers, this trail is NOT for you. Led has this trail rated between an 8 to a 9 on the difficulty scale. The main reason for this rating is for the "feature" obstacle at French Creek. This obstacle has 3 approaches and for the most part, the "easy" line is still a moderate obstacle. Due to this particular obstacle, your rig will be REQUIRED to have at least a 3 inch lift with 31's, transfer case skid, and front/rear tow points. Even with the minimum lift, rocker and belly skid protection are recommended for all rigs. If you have the 8.25 rear, you will hang the diff in several locations. A locker is helpful for this trail, but open rigs have been able to complete the trail. Once the group is past French Creek, the hard part is over with the exception of the "Plymouth Rock" play area - this is a place for hard-core rigs with front and rear lockers only, some nasty off-camber obstacles.

Camping:
Once at the top of Holy Cross, there's lots of areas in the trees and in the meadow to set up tents. This is primitive camping - no bathrooms. There will be a place for a nice sized pit-fire as well. Be prepared for cold temps at night with the always possible chance for rain in the afternoon to evening. Bring lots to drink and plan to pack lunch and dinner for Thursday, breakfast and lunch for Friday.

In the past, the group gets off the trail about mid-afternoon, so many of us will likely want to eat dinner in Leadville (I know a great Italian/pizza place) on the way back to Buena Vista. Also, there's a NAPA in Leadville and they have been very helpful in the past for repair parts.

Here's a decent link for additional information about Holy Cross with good pictures of the obstacles:

http://www.mhjcontherocks.com/Community/Trips/337.aspx

This is gonna be a great run!

Troy

[fatwreck]

The plan sounds good! You're smart to run it during the week. I don't know that I'll be able to make this one, but I'm sure you'll have a great crew.

Here's a video of this trail from last year for those that are interested:
http://www.projectxj.com/videos/holycross2.wmv

[hjeepxj]

Yeah im soooooooooooo down for this run. This time imma do teh hardline on FC. :D :cheers:

[YELLAHEEP]

Excellent vid Brian! That gives a great perspective on what can be expected of the trail.

The area where the creek was flowing heavy, that's French Creek and the obstacle that everyone must be able to negotiate. The easiest line is off to the right in the video - the blue YJ took the hard line and the orange Bronco took the in-between line.

The last part of the video is Plymouth Rock and is optional. Last time I was there, I did the same thing the gray TJ did! :laugh3:

[fatwreck]

The last part of the video is Plymouth Rock and is optional. Last time I was there, I did the same thing the gray TJ did! :laugh3:

Yeah, I thought it was a pretty good representation of the trail. Granted we took most of the hard lines....but I still think you get the idea.

I wanted to do that trick too, but by the time we got there and it was my turn....it was a full on down pour and the open top guys weren't too excited. So, we turned around and went back.

[JEONLYEP]

Troy, this is the trail we did part of last year? Video looks worse than I remember. We turned around at Cleveland rock? Plymouth rock (some type of rock) how much more is there?

Daryl

[YELLAHEEP]

Daryl,

Heh heh, Cleveland... Plymouth... whatever, I can never remember. :laugh3:

Yeah, this trail was the one you're thinking of. We weren't far from the end of the trail where the camp area is. For the most part, we were done with the trail.

[jrsxj98]

They tell me there is some diff. areas to play on above cleveland.

[fatwreck]

They tell me there is some diff. areas to play on above cleveland.

Yeah, there is a double ledge with multiple options for lines.....and it is pretty fun to play on. The far right is easy, so it isn't much to worry about. You can definitely roll there if you're not careful though.

I can't seem to find a photo of it, but here are some scenery shots so everyone knows what the reward is like at the top :sunshine:

http://www.projectxj.com/images/trail.runs/07.19.03-holycross/images/IMG_2754.jpg

http://www.projectxj.com/images/trail.runs/07.19.03-holycross/images/IMG_2760.jpg

http://www.projectxj.com/images/trail.runs/07.19.03-holycross/images/IMG_2765.jpg

Who's a rock star? :wave:

http://www.projectxj.com/images/trail.runs/07.19.03-holycross/images/IMG_2766.jpg

[MMIXJ]

Once off the highway, there's about 3 miles of dry, dusty, washboard road. The washboard can be awfully rough so if you don't have everything good and tight, you'll likely find out what's loose here. We'll probably air down before the dirt road to make the washboard less harsh.

this is an understatement... that road was the harshest ride i've ever experienced! i thought
for sure i'd get out at the trailhead and parts would just start falling off (bumpers, wheels, etc)
;)

at least this year i've got these sweet longarms which should help suck up the hits! :guitar:

P.S.
nice pix brian. looking forward to getting to the top this time (got too late of a start last time).

terry

[YELLAHEEP]

looking forward to getting to the top this time (got too late of a start last time).

terry


That's usually the case especially with a large group. Depending upon what time we get to Holy Cross City and what the weather is doing, we'll have to decide if we'll try Cleveland Rock before setting up camp, or save it for the morning before heading down - or heck, maybe both! :laugh3:

[96 Classic]

Troy, do you know what the elavation is in that area? Just wondering.

[planefixer]

That's usually the case especially with a large group. Depending upon what time we get to Holy Cross City and what the weather is doing, we'll have to decide if we'll try Cleveland Rock before setting up camp, or save it for the morning before heading down - or heck, maybe both! :laugh3:


No "navigational errors" this time I presume :laugh3:

[fatwreck]

The very top of the trail is right at timberline.....so, 10,500 ft?

[JEONLYEP]

No "navigational errors" this time I presume :laugh3:
So your saying that there is a way to get there faster than we did last year? :laugh3:

Daryl

[hjeepxj]

Bah, I liked the scenic route we took last year.

:D

[The_Rock]

Troy,
Is a transfer case skid required for all no matter what lift height. Just trying to figure out if I should get one on the Jeep because it's a good idea or because I need one to go on the overnighter.

[Rock Yacht]

It's a very good idea, especially the shorter (height) you are. Although I have successfully driven a bone stock 83 CJ7 through French creek. IF you're a good driver and have some patience you can make it unscathed...

Planning to go on this one so if you need a midgunner or sweeper let me know.


Bob

[YELLAHEEP]

Troy, do you know what the elavation is in that area? Just wondering.

Google says elevation starts at 9,303 ft and tops at 11,413 ft. The City and the camp site are still in the trees.


No "navigational errors" this time I presume :laugh3:

I ain't guaranteeing a damn thing Jeff............. :laugh3: I'm just hoping to retain all my u-joint caps during the trek down the washboard road this year!



Troy,
Is a transfer case skid required for all no matter what lift height. Just trying to figure out if I should get one on the Jeep because it's a good idea or because I need one to go on the overnighter.

Because of the kinds of obstacles found on this trail, (and on the other trails featured at this event... hint-hint) I really gotta say that this should be a mandatory piece of equipment. Most of the obstacles are in or near water and I'd hate to see someone crack a t-case and polute the stream - not to mention that a smashed t-case ain't gonna be a whole lot of fun to deal with in general. You state 5 1/2 inch lift on your rig which is a good height. We could pick the right line to keep you off of the t-case, but you'd need to remind your spotter of the lack of skid there so we don't have a tragedy. So, I guess what I'm sayin' is if you can get a skid, do it. If you didn't have the big lift, I'd have to cut you from the run. Ya dig?

[The_Rock]

Thanks Troy,
The skids on my list of things to do. I'll try and get one on before August. I've been holding off deciding between RE drop brackets or a long arm kit with a full cross member I could put the skid on. I just went drop brackets so I can choose a new cross member and skid and get it on.

[Scott Hayden]

Troy - Need your help. Two delightful women might want to make the Holly Cross trip if their schedule permits, but their jeep is not properly rigged for this type of wheelin. Yep, they qualify, one lost a transmission on Guanella, the other recently dropped the engine in a rough drive. They are properly equipped, can handle the back country outdoors with ease, and are experts in everything.Any room for prospective NAXJA mammas?

[MMIXJ]

:dunno:
er, i'm confused... are you saying they aren't properly equipped, but are properly equipped?

(maybe i just need more caffeine).
:D

[YELLAHEEP]

Troy - Need your help. Two delightful women might want to make the Holly Cross trip if their schedule permits, but their jeep is not properly rigged for this type of wheelin. Yep, they qualify, one lost a transmission on Guanella, the other recently dropped the engine in a rough drive. They are properly equipped, can handle the back country outdoors with ease, and are experts in everything.Any room for prospective NAXJA mammas?

Not to be an ass Scott......

But you're telling me that these two girls have a Jeep that they've 1) blown the trans in once, and 2) blown the engine in once. AND on top of that, you already know they're jeep isn't set up for the kind of trail Holy Cross is.......

What the heck are you smokin'?!?!?!

To allow them to take their jeep on this trail isn't fair to them (expenses from breakage, tow bill or whatever), or to the others attending.

The girls are more than welcome to hitch a ride in your jeep, or anyone else that's willing to let 'em have a seat....... but I absolutely must refuse to allow their rig on the trail. This event is about capable rigs and their owners having a great trail ride with little to no breakage. With as big of a group as we're likely to have, we don't need obviously ill-equipped rigs creating problems.

It's also my intention to get a list of attendees developed as people show up for the event and pre-inspect their rigs before the run. I don't want any surprises, nor do I want to have to turn someone away at the trail head.

[Led]

Troy - Need your help. Two delightful women might want to make the Holly Cross trip if their schedule permits, but their jeep is not properly rigged for this type of wheelin. Yep, they qualify, one lost a transmission on Guanella, the other recently dropped the engine in a rough drive. They are properly equipped, can handle the back country outdoors with ease, and are experts in everything.Any room for prospective NAXJA mammas?
I don't get it either

[hightimes2]

It's also my intention to get a list of attendees developed as people show up for the event and pre-inspect their rigs before the run. I don't want any surprises, nor do I want to have to turn someone away at the trail head.

does this mean i'm out with my peugot and D30 :laugh3:. But seriousley(sp) I've never been to a NAXJA event so what will you be checking for in the pre-inspect?

Thanks Randy

[JEONLYEP]

Not to be an assScott......
as·cot
n.
A broad neck scarf knotted so that its ends lie flat, one upon the other.



It's also my intention to get a list of attendees developed as people show up for the event and pre-inspect their rigs before the run. I don't want any surprises, nor do I want to have to turn someone away at the trail head.
I hope that I pass. If not atleast I got to do it last year!? :laugh3:

[jrsxj98]

does this mean i'm out with my peugot and D30 :laugh3:. But seriousley(sp) I've never been to a NAXJA event so what will you be checking for in the pre-inspect?

Thanks Randy

Randy this is a list of tech/inspection items. I think what Troy is talking about is that the veh. is equiped to handle the demands of the trail, IE: skids, lockers, ground clearance, etc. as well as the required naxja items below.

Front and rear tow hooks, shackles or receivers (no welded tow hooks)

Safety Belts for driver and all passengers

Adequate Spare Tire, Jack and Lug Wrench

Tow rope (no metal hooks allowed), strap or winch

Visibly Charged Fire Extinguisher (BC or ABC)

First aid kit

Secured battery (no bungee cords)

Also even though CB's are not listed as required, they are useful.

Justin

[YELLAHEEP]

Exactly Justin. Specifically the "as well as" part. There are NAXJA equipment requirement rules, then there will be trail-leader imposed equipment requirements. These aren't designed to exclude anyone - they're designed to ensure the run goes safely and smoothly. If you wanna do this run, get your rig up to snuff...

I have already stated the rig requirements in my original post and provided a link to some trail pictures so that everyone can get a feel for what the trail will involve.

'Nuf said.

[hightimes2]

Randy this is a list of tech/inspection items. I think what Troy is talking about is that the veh. is equiped to handle the demands of the trail, IE: skids, lockers, ground clearance, etc. as well as the required naxja items below.

Front and rear tow hooks, shackles or receivers (no welded tow hooks)

Safety Belts for driver and all passengers

Adequate Spare Tire, Jack and Lug Wrench

Tow rope (no metal hooks allowed), strap or winch

Visibly Charged Fire Extinguisher (BC or ABC)

First aid kit

Secured battery (no bungee cords)

Also even though CB's are not listed as required, they are useful.

Justin


thanks for the reply. I guess I need to go buy a few small things and I will be set.

[hjeepxj]

I hope that I pass. If not atleast I got to do it last year!? :laugh3:

x2. :D

I even have teh 33s this year.

If I can get a breathing minute from work, ill be locked f/r. :rolleyes:

[JEONLYEP]

If I can get a breathing minute from work
Let me know what's that's like.


I hope to be able to get some of the things back in that I had to take out of mine to let it dry. But it's going either way.

[Scott Hayden]

Troy - You are 100% correct in not allowing the girls on the trip in their jeep, that was not my intent, my message was somewhat hazy. They are looking for a ride to go on this trip, is there space available in somebody's rig?

[YELLAHEEP]

Troy - You are 100% correct in not allowing the girls on the trip in their jeep, that was not my intent, my message was somewhat hazy. They are looking for a ride to go on this trip, is there space available in somebody's rig?



Geez Scott do we gotta bottle-feed ya on EVERYTHING???? XJ's are 5 seater vehicles..... They could each bring a friend and you'd still be good to go.....



Just kiddin'!
:laugh3: :laugh3: :laugh3: :laugh3:

[hjeepxj]

Let me know what's that's like.


Tiring. :D

But hey, at least I gots some monies. :D

[C.diesel]

I would like to know if anyone is planning on doing this run with 31s this year? If anyone is, I would really like to know how it goes. I am still debating (after a whole year to think about it) weather or not I am going with 31s or 32s on my vehicle. I would love to do this trail next summer and have been wondering just how bad it would be with the 31s.

I know that I should probably just bite the bullet and get the 32s right off the bat, because I will probably want them later, but I jave been reasoning that I can always wait until the 31s are trashed before moving up and doing the necessary trimming (3.5 lift) that will come with the 32s.

[Rock Yacht]

Ran the trail 2 weekends ago. You'll be fine up to French creek crossing but from there you're walking or riding with someone else or taking out the rockers and rear quater panels...

The creek crossing was rather devoid of paving (rocks stacked), which is a great thing if you're built to handle a little tougher obstacle.

My 14yr old coming down.

http://www.tntcustoms.com/Trails/HC_16Jul05/DSC02543a.JPG

[JEONLYEP]

They are looking for a ride to go on this trip, is there space available in somebody's rig?
There is just me and Deogie in my XJ. She's got a seatbelt in back this year, so the passenger side is open and Deogie doesn't take up the whole back seat herself. But anyone riding in the back would have to like dogs.


I would like to know if anyone is planning on doing this run with 31s this year? If anyone is, I would really like to know how it goes. I am still debating (after a whole year to think about it) weather or not I am going with 31s or 32s on my vehicle. I would love to do this trail next summer and have been wondering just how bad it would be with the 31s.

I know that I should probably just bite the bullet and get the 32s right off the bat, because I will probably want them later, but I jave been reasoning that I can always wait until the 31s are trashed before moving up and doing the necessary trimming (3.5 lift) that will come with the 32s.
I ran it last year on 31's and am going to do it again this year. It's not too bad, if you've got the right spotter (Thanks Troy) and the nessary underside protection.

Daryl

[hjeepxj]

I ran it last year on 31's and am going to do it again this year. It's not too bad, if you've got the right spotter (Thanks Troy) and the nessary underside protection.

Daryl


x2! :) Cept this year ill be on 33s, no lockers still. :rolleyes:

[JEONLYEP]

x2! :) Cept this year ill be on 33s, no lockers still. :rolleyes:
Yea, well mine hasn't grown since last year. :eek:

[planefixer]

Damn Daryl,that avitar hurts my eyes :looney:

[YELLAHEEP]

x2! :) Cept this year ill be on 33s, no lockers still. :rolleyes:


And a bit less sheetmetal too right? I did my best keeping yer tires from eating fenders last time, you ain't gonna make me work that hard again are ya?

:laugh3:

[YELLAHEEP]

[QUOTE=Rock Yacht]Ran the trail 2 weekends ago. You'll be fine up to French creek crossing but from there you're walking or riding with someone else or taking out the rockers and rear quater panels...

The creek crossing was rather devoid of paving (rocks stacked), which is a great thing if you're built to handle a little tougher obstacle. [QUOTE]




Just to clarify, this thing about parking and riding really isn't an option unless you're not camping and leaving the same day. Everyone needs to plan on making the French Creek obstacle, it's really not a good idea to leave a rig parked unattended - and again, there's a way to get most any rig past the obstacle, but everyone needs to understand there may be damage getting lesser vehicles over the rocks. 91jeepproject (Andrew) was open, on 31's with 4" lift max and we got him over without major damage - just some tire/fender contact - but it was a miracle we didn't bash his unprotected rockers.

hasta

[Rock Yacht]

Just to clarify...everyone needs to understand there may be damage getting lesser vehicles over the rocks.

This is the point I was trying to make.

Bob

[C.diesel]

Well, I think that I am going to stick with getting 31s when the time comes. By the time that I am ready to do this kind of run next summer I will have put some serious time and money into armor... what's the use to buying all of it if I'm not gonna use it? ;)

I am thinking that I will be running 31s, 3.5 lift, rock rails, some kind of T case skid and armor on the diffs. Also hoping to have the back locked up by then. Thanks for your input guys. I really appreciate the observations and information. I am waiting on my frequent flyer credit card to get to me in the mail and then the spending spree begins! Should be anyday now.

[JEONLYEP]

Damn Daryl,that avitar hurts my eyes :looney:
Yea me to, I change it to something else when ever I'm trolling around the site. Then if I remember I change it back as I leave for everyone else's discomfort.

:laugh3: Daryl

[JEONLYEP]

I becoming torn here. I want to do this trail again, and I want to do some geocaching (www.geocaching.com) also. There are many more caches available on the trails that I'm going to miss Thursday and Friday by being on the HC. over nighter. I think that there are three or so available on the way to and or from HC and camp. Anyone want to take some time out on the way back and go caching with me http://www.naxja.org/forum/images/icons/icon5.gif

Daryl

[hjeepxj]

And a bit less sheetmetal too right? I did my best keeping yer tires from eating fenders last time, you ain't gonna make me work that hard again are ya?

:laugh3:


Yeeup, all trimmed up. :D