zig zag baby, zig zag

[Comanche]

I was thinking of buying a zig zag. Has anyone gone zig zag on a MJ or Xj here? Looks cool and talk to the company. Really nice and helpful.

Go MJ

Ron

[sidriptide]

to be honest ...... zig zag to me means cigarette papers..... i must be "outta the loop"
mike

[Comanche]

http://www.nthdegreemobility.com/products.htm

check it out smokey

[seanR]

That is about the coolest thing I have seen. So simple, How caom I can never think of these things?

[RCP Phx]

The CJ guys have been running these for a couple of decades.I wouldnt even consider them except for an off-road only rig!

[Renegade Jpr]

I havent seen them untill too long ago, they seem to work well and are good for street because you can lock them in place. For some reasion, I still like Revolvers better.

[rockwerks]

The CJ guys have been running these for a couple of decades.I wouldnt even consider them except for an off-road only rig! :rolleyes:

If you got things outa shape for these to assist in messing you up you are already screwed....I am currently working on becoming a dealer of nth degree..sweet stuff

[RCP Phx]

I like my scissor shackles better than either one!

[Comanche]

I called the company and talk about the streetability of these and as long as they are locked they are safe. He also said he would help me to design it for my MJ, and I like that in a vender

go MJ

Comanche

Ron

[XJZ]

I think that's trying WAY too hard!

Oh yeah, I'm also going to run out and buy some of those sliders right away too.

Excuse me.....Gliders :rolleyes:

[EricsXJ]

I was checking out their website the other day as they had an article featuring this company in my local newspaper. The zig-zag looks like a great product to me - the best thing I think is it eliminates most (if not all) the twisting of the main leaf when flexed. However, I remember reading that it will not work with leaf packs more than 5" lift due to the leafs being too long when compressed. Wouldn't it be possible to extend the "pads" so that as the leaf compresses it still has something to slide on? And, since the zig-zag negates the use of a shackle, is there a way to have them extended to add to lift height? In other words how can this be used with more than 5" of lift height? I know those are questions that should be directed to the company itself but I thought I'd post them here for sake of discussion.

[BUCKYXJ]

I have been looking at getting this also the only problem I see with it is that when you go down a steep hill the whole rearend will unload and be easier to roll. I read somewhere or maybe they told me I can't remember that you need to lock it in when going up or down steep inclines. I don't like the fact of jumping out at every hill to lock it in. Pirate had a good discussion about this product I will see if I can find it.
DIG IT!

[Scott Mac.]

Flex is overrated, spend your hard earned money on lockers.

Now if you won the lottery then go ahead and buy the latest and greatest fads. :cool:

[XJZ]

Exactly, if you want REAL trail performance work for a rig that is well balanced, not some scissor-jack, Swiss-Army knife suspension. Unless it comes in that sexy powder blue. :eek:

[FJH97XJ]

If you have over 5" of lift forget about them. The spring will slide off the gliders & end up in the bumper. Beleive me I thought of everything I could have done to make it work. But after further review it wouldn't work. I had purchased these for my XJ & after reading the directions thats where it mentioned the 5" lift limit. The product looked pretty well thought out but the only thing they can improve IMO is the rod ends they use, the attachment point of the pivot @ the unibody & I think it could be alittle beefer.

[Renegade Jpr]

Originally posted by Scott Mac.
Flex is overrated, spend your hard earned money on lockers.

Now if you won the lottery then go ahead and buy the latest and greatest fads. :cool:

He's 100% correct.

[rockwerks]

Flex is overrated, spend your hard earned money on lockers.

So when was the last time you where on a 4.5 rated trail?...Yes lockers are important.....but all other things being equal...id rather take more flex than less...My Xj had around 36" to 40" of total travel and sometimes that was not enough....the new rig whould have more than the last.....you are right....lift, lock, travel, in that order,..but I will be putting the zig zag on my spring over MJ that Im working on now.

[Scott Mac.]

Originally posted by xjnation
So when was the last time you where on a 4.5 rated trail?...Yes lockers are important.....but all other things being equal...id rather take more flex than less...My Xj had around 36" to 40" of total travel and sometimes that was not enough....the new rig whould have more than the last.....you are right....lift, lock, travel, in that order,..but I will be putting the zig zag on my spring over MJ that Im working on now.

Moab '00 and flex didn't limit me. But I was whining about my open front diff daily.

If you have the extra cash go for it. My point was that I think lockers are more worthy of your money than flex is.

I think the XJ well balanced with flex as it is. I don't see the need for the rear to have that much more flex than the front.

I wish you the best of luck on the MJ.

[XJZ]

Remember just a few years back when ramp travel index was all the craze? It turns out that a lot of those ramp champs were down right scary on the trail. Vehicles that could drive off the backside of a ramp had some very serious issues to deal with on the trail. This contraption takes that to a whole new level. I'll take safe, solid, SIMPLE, dependable, predicable ANY day.

[4ward]

Nope, nuh uh, no sir. Not gonna do it. That thing would get smashed into pretzel like pieces on my junk. The materials aren't up to the task for my liking. Nor do I like the overemphasized sidehillin' revolveresqe feelin' that thing is gonna give. I'm sending this one to the credit card wheelers myself.

Sean

[Comanche]

I have a 6" lift in the front and a spring over on stock springs in the back on my MJ. This should work?

Go MJ

Ron

[dennisuello]

Originally posted by BUCKYXJ
I have been looking at getting this also the only problem I see with it is that when you go down a steep hill the whole rearend will unload and be easier to roll. I read somewhere or maybe they told me I can't remember that you need to lock it in when going up or down steep inclines. I don't like the fact of jumping out at every hill to lock it in.

The only way it will unload if you take all of the weight off the axle. Coil sprung rigs don't seem to have many problems, even though their springs are not solidly attached to the frame and can easily unload when suspension droops.

Jim likes to talk about stuff, so email him - info@nthdegreemobility.com

[Lawn Cher']

It seems to me that this system provides similar suspension travel and motion to a 3/4 elliptical setup with a track-bar. I think I'd prefer the positive connection of shackles in the rear to their sliding plates. Interesting design, however.

JHMO.

[Matt99XJ]

The only problem I see with it is that it would get smashed when you came off of a rock. Also it would get hung up BAD if you were trying to back over an obsticle.

It is a good idea but it is not for me.

[Weasel]

Originally posted by xjnation
My Xj had around 36" to 40" of total travel and sometimes that was not enough....

Really 40"? Could you share with us what you did seeing the Baja Thropy trucks seem to max out at 36"?? And they have a fourlink rear.

[TC]

10" X 4 corners = 40" :)

[Scott Mac.]

I was going to give him more credit than that.

18/20" front + 18/20" rear = 36/40" of travel

[Weasel]

That what I was guessing as wel but you can't add your travel front and rear together. :rolleyes:

That would be like saying you have a 400something to 1 Crawl ratio if you had 200 front and rear.

And even 18/20" I getting up their. 10" seems more reasonable.

The thing you have to look at with the fancy gimicks that let stuff hang is will they work and better then having a properly setup four link. You have to remnember that when these unlock often then suspension is unloaded, so traction would be minimal anyways. Thats why these are often refered to a for RTI queens. They allow higher RTI score cause your tires isn't off the ground but how much traction do you get from them.

I belive it's a very compicated issue and 80-90% oercent of the poeple on this board including myself understand enough about what is happening with your susoension, weight transfer, wheel rates, ect to even offer a comment on it.

[MistWolf]

Flex is over rated. I'd rayther have less flex than more if it affects stability. I've seen ulti-flexy rigs nearly tip over obstacles that gave my XJ little trouble. I'd almost say I'd rather have no flex than no lockers but that would definitley kill my kidneys.

Bottom line with this contraption that regardless of how well it works it severely infringes on departure angle especially when articulated

Funny thing is if it actually works somebody will figure out a way around it's shortcomings

One more thing. The reason coil spring suspension work ok even when the springs lose contact with theeir buckets is because it's the control arms that locates the axle. This zig zag thing allows the points that fix the axle to move. Only the front mounts are fixed. Heck it might be easier to just cut off the back half of your spring pack and use a trac bar. Wait- that sounds familiar!

[GhostXJ]

I can see this has been a dead issue since 6/2003, but I was wondering.........all those guys that said they didn't care that they were going to do it, did ya and did it work? How does it drive? How many times have you rolled as a result of the Zig-Zag? I am looking to get more flex out of the rear but not pass up the front. As it is now, I have almost 4 times the travel in the front than I do in the rear. I have been in a couple of spots that the lack of flex in the rear has almost tipped me from dropping so harsh. For those that say go locked, I have Detroits front and rear. Give you a small run down of my situation, I am locked F&R, 6.5/7.5 lift (F&R) and 35z. I know if I choose to go this route, I will need a longer drive shaft but how much longer? Thanks in advance for your help guys.

[Roxtar]

Nope, nuh uh, no sir. Not gonna do it. That thing would get smashed into pretzel like pieces on my junk. The materials aren't up to the task for my liking. Nor do I like the overemphasized sidehillin' revolveresqe feelin' that thing is gonna give. I'm sending this one to the credit card wheelers myself.

Sean2X
If you think revolvers give an overly loose feeling try these on.
On the other hand, it'd make a great video if you had to apply a little power in reverse with no actual rear spring mounts.
Can you say "unload"?

I think the name, "zig-zag" is perfect for several reasons.

[BrettM]

How would these function any different than revolvers?! they will unload to give rediculous droop (with very little weight on the tire) and allow for spring twist. those are the 2 main "benefits" of both systems.

I wouldn't put that ZigZag (or revolvers) on my MJ if they gave it to me free.

[Jes]

I wouldn't put that ZigZag (or revolvers) on my MJ if they gave it to me free.

I wouldn't either but I could say that about almost every other manufacturer's lift kit products.

[xjj33p3r]

Well, it seems like they've discontinued production of these on XJ's, but does anyone have any reports on how they worked for them?

[Roxtar]

Well, it seems like they've discontinued production of these on XJ's, but does anyone have any reports on how they worked for them?Based on that alone I'd say they worked spectacularly.

[xjj33p3r]

Based on that alone I'd say they worked spectacularly.
:laugh:

[Harvo]

I knew someone that tried these after they took their revolvers off. Same song different verse. They unload going down steep hills and they jack up and try to drive up under the Jeep when going up steep hills. It also feels like the Jeep is going to come apart if you start bouncing while going up a hill.

I'll stick with decent suspension flex and locked diffs.

[BrettM]

just to add some "tech" to this discussion; one of the main problems with Revolvers, Zig-Zag, dual shackles, 3/4 elipticle, etc, etc. is that leaf springs generally have very high effective anti-squat values, meaning the suspension wants to lift when you give it the gas. One of the bandaids to link suspensions with high anti-squat is limiting straps to keep it from lifting too much. Normal 1/2 eliptical leaf springs, with normal shackles, work similarly to a limiting strap; keeping the suspension from lifting too much. Now when you put one of these devices on the back end, you are allowing uncontrolled droop which lets the anti-squat go crazy and you start bouncing all over on hill climbs and such.

[Starscream]

I thought this was a cool idea for a part, but it does seem to have its downfalls.

just to add some "tech" to this discussion; one of the main problems with Revolvers, Zig-Zag, dual shackles, 3/4 elipticle, etc, etc. is that leaf springs generally have very high effective anti-squat values, meaning the suspension wants to lift when you give it the gas. One of the bandaids to link suspensions with high anti-squat is limiting straps to keep it from lifting too much. Normal 1/2 eliptical leaf springs, with normal shackles, work similarly to a limiting strap; keeping the suspension from lifting too much. Now when you put one of these devices on the back end, you are allowing uncontrolled droop which lets the anti-squat go crazy and you start bouncing all over on hill climbs and such.
Based on that, could you put limiting straps on the rear end along with this and stop that droop problem? Just curious...

[BrettM]

I thought this was a cool idea for a part, but it does seem to have its downfalls.


Based on that, could you put limiting straps on the rear end along with this and stop that droop problem? Just curious...
Revolvers with a center limiting strap would be a LOT better, but I still wouldn't run them (except on a ramp), they're just not needed.