Lets talk custom axles

[Matt S.]

I think we should establish and discuss custom axles combinations. Not only to help me make decisions but to create a on topic thread. I think we should keep complete aftermarket assemblies out of it for the sheer lack of fabrication. Lets talk do it yourself variations. What are pros and cons of each. Should we gather companies and pricing for parts to make it very usefull thread?

Here are some I am considering myself.

404 Mercedes MOG
:Would require to be narrowed to offset the differential for the front
:Have to buy aftermarket pinion conversion to shorten the total length of pinion and to accept u-joints
:If drum brakes are kept, 20" rims are a must. Disc conversion is doable. Some of us would be capable of it, other would need to buy the kit. Runs $1000 an axle.
:Have to run a 4-link in the rear to control the leverage of the portals.
:Have REALLY deep gears. Either 5something or almost 8something.

404 Mog 9"
:The same as above but a 9" differential
:Allows the use of a much lighter axle combination
:Pinion is near half the legth of stock MOG pinion.
:Can get a very small gear set in the center section to get a shorter overall gear ratio.

Hybrid 9" Front
:Can possibly get the True Hi9 centersection to get some GREAT droveshaft protection
:Run either stock 44/60 knuckles of aftermarket knuckles for best strength
:Any width is possible

Hybrid 9" Rear With fullfloater outers
: Great lightwieght centersection and can possibly run a true Hi9
: 14 bolt or 60 outers to have a full float rear end.
: Disc brake conversions are easy and could allow for a 5" or 6" on 5.5" lug pattern
: Dont have to be linked to control axle

These are the combonations I am throwing around in my head. I am sure I have left out many other doable things.

All these would require custom axle shafts. With 300M shafts available through CTM, those are the top of the line. There are Warns, mosers, dutchmans, and Superiors that would beable to match the hybrids and also make the custom lengths.

[Fullsizexj]

You left out Rockwells and front and rear steer options

[Matt S.]

I left Rockwells out for two reasons.

1) What REAL fab is required to put them in. They are square and easy to put bracketry anywhere. No one narrows them because if you want Rockwells you want full width. And in my opinion, full size axles suck. To wide to do any real wheeling.

2) Why upgrade them, stock is almost bullet proof.


Rear steer on a stock wheel welled cherokee would be nearly impossible. You would have to be either tubed completly or really wide. Plus unless your over 107" who needs rear steer? Good drivers with one steering axle can drive circles around those who are not very good and have rear steer.

[Fullsizexj]

Every reason you give goes completly against the idea of custom fabrication,
stock wheeled ? Name someone who makes a bracket kit to put them in a cherokee,would have to be tubed for rear stear, sounds like custom fab to me, and then the work for front clearance of the top loader, sounds like more custom fab. All of this sounds like a hell of alot more fab than the quick easy stuff you listed as custom

[Matt S.]

Ok... I would really like to hear people chim in!

And I dont want to know about how to beef up the unibody. Rockwells are NOT CUSTOM. they are stock axles being put into something!

If PaulS reads this, can you give some info on your hybrid 9"?

[Kittrell]

Rich, I think he is after actual custom axles, not custom installs. Otherwise putting a XJ D35 under a TJ would be considered custom here.............. :lecture:

[XJ_ranger]

i like the idea of running another 9" center section with the 44 knuckles, however, that may be another year's worth of project time...

that is what i wold go to if i upgrade the front axle again, though the 44 will have to go in before i can even get wheeling this summer, so bullshitting here isnt helping me at all!

[Ludakris]

what is this 9" Mog axle? I havent run across this before.
I know there is a guy on Pirate (yeah, yeah) with an MJ on volvo portals.
the volvo's are lighter and if your lucky you can get a high speed gear set which is in the 5's. I like the idea of portals. I dont want to go with alot of suspension, but if I am going to do axles (no time soon) I want more than 44's. I was thinking at least 60's, but 37's on portals with minimal lift would be a great alternative. I am just wondering what ways I could get around the gearing... I would like to drive it over 15 mph every once in a while..

[DorkAlert]

Whats the fascination with the 9"?...I would just go with 60's or maybe a hybrid 44/60 upfront and a 60 rear...I think that would probably end up being more cost effective...but I suppose it would depend on if you have to pay for HP 3rd members for the 9"s....

In the end...portal axles are by far the steez....

[Matt S.]

I, and alot of others think that 9" axles are by far the most versatile axle available. 40 spline shafts in the carrier for one. anything from 2.5:1 to 9:something for gears. Light and high clearance. i like the nines for aftermarket followings. You can get a 1/2" plate housing for around 300 bucks, a true hi nine for a grand, and aftermarket knuckles for 300 a side. then you can run huge inner shafts and run 35 spline 60 stuff outside.

60 wieght more than my jeep. If that pumpkin wieghted half as less, it would be pimp.

[David Taylor]

True hi9 with a spool is 1650.00 True hi 9 doesn't recommened going with
40 spline shafts. Not that the gears and housing won't take it But, they don't like the way the spool looks. To thin around the bearings.

[Danno]

I have a 9" center section mated to a Mog 404 portal axle sitting in my garage. It's roughed (needs a bit more welding) together and really just needs the custom axles made for it. I had a Currie HP 9" for it and they told me it would have to be used as a low pinion due to the portal rotation. I've driven myself crazy trying to figure out if that is correct and just how the rotation goes. Anybody have experience here? Do you know anybody who can do custom axles?
The reason for going 9" center section with an XJ is cuz the Mog pinion is extremely loonnnnng! 18" as I recall. I ended up making a custom rear NASCAR floater rear axle and used the Currie HP in that.

Also I have fit 16.5" rims to stock Mog 404 drums. That is the bare minimum. They do fit but it's tighter than the proverbial gnat's *&#@*!!!

I have seen and coresponded with a fellow who put stock Mog axles under an XJ without moving the front pinion over. He used a two piece (actually two drive shafts) drive shaft(s) with a pillow block bearing to seperate the pieces. He said it worked pretty good.

[Paul S]

Ok... I would really like to hear people chim in!

And I dont want to know about how to beef up the unibody. Rockwells are NOT CUSTOM. they are stock axles being put into something!

If PaulS reads this, can you give some info on your hybrid 9"?

Just finished it Matt, what would you like to know?

Paul

[Rawbrown]

how about using something small with the volvo portals? like a D30 center. little bit o trussing. gearsets cheap enough. center is very abundant. since your gonna run like a 307 ratio there isn't much torque multiplication or stress in the center. just a though. I see 2 schools of though on driveline.
#1 keep the weight down. this gets you over the trail without over taxing the parts in your jeep. Dave Taylor is all about weight. and the 9" is lighter than a 44 but stronger.
#2 big heavy anchors. Burrow likes the rockwells because at 700 # each, your CG is very low. it takes a lot to break the heavy duty stuff. so momentum is your friend... and with the low CG you can get way off camber without fear of rolling.

[Lawn Cher']

Rawbrown is onto something... building portals on D30's and 8.25's. No need to regear the diffs, only moderate weight penalties from the portal boxes, and very little suspension modification necessary to fit larger tires. Brake configuration might be a PIA.

[Ludakris]

it is a great line of thought.. the portals reduce the stress.. but I keep hearing that the volvo stuff is very scarce... I am going to make my own out of 3 gear sbc timing sets...... I want to go with the school of thought that light is right....

[Ed A. Stevens]

Portals are cool, but what is out there for a front axle with a 9" or D44 center, with 35 spline D60 shafts and outers? I would think a HP44 with D60 outers & shafts could provide a good balance for weight/strength?

What large shaft carriers are available for the D44 (D60/14bolt or 9" 35 spline or larger)?

The 9" has the advantage for carriers that fit large axles, even if the pinion is low (and the HP 8.8 conversions are ratio limited).

Has anyone built on of these?

[CRASH]

Portals are cool, but what is out there for a front axle with a 9" or D44 center, with 35 spline D60 shafts and outers? I would think a HP44 with D60 outers & shafts could provide a good balance for weight/strength?

What large shaft carriers are available for the D44 (D60/14bolt or 9" 35 spline or larger)?



The 9" has the advantage for carriers that fit large axles, even if the pinion is low (and the HP 8.8 conversions are ratio limited).

Has anyone built on of these?

33 and 35 spline ARBs are available for 44's.

Not sure why you'd want to run anything else. ;D

Lincoln just built a SF 35 spline 44.

I'm sure he fawked it up and it will break, though.

CRASH

[Rawbrown]

Ed has a good one. slap a set of D60 outers onto a D44 center. good clearance with gnarly u-joints and shafts. you can go up to 5.38 in an HP D44.
same thing in the rear is the 35 spline FF kit D44 that JP just did an article on. sweet.
HMMMM... custom portal boxes? Thanks, now my gears are turning. think I might need to sketch something up. I allready have an idea.

[Lawn Cher']

HMMMM... custom portal boxes? Thanks, now my gears are turning. think I might need to sketch something up. I allready have an idea.

Okie Terry linked to some awhile back built on a D60, but that seems like overkill.

Was that pun intentional?

[Paul S]

I thought about doing the 9/60 hybrid deal, but the for me the cons outweighed the pros.
Cons being that a 9/60 is MUCH heavier than a 9/44 & it can't be built as narrow as I like, not to mention the substantial added cost of 60 junk.

Paul

[Matt S.]

First, Paul what are your specs on the front end? I know you are number one with wieght concern. #2 is strength.

For me, I need strength then wieght. It looks like 39.5"s are whats to roll under when the time comes around. Tire size and suspension ideas is why I am looking at building one off axles.

Here is what I feel about portals:

They kick ass for clearance, but its fact that if you REALLY get on them, they WILL break. The boxes are the weak part. Comp buggies break these things. Now, my goal is 4300lbs or less. So that plus 40s would be enough to break that . Or i think.

Should we wieght and outwieght the difference between outers? I suppose thats where it matters?

D44s are readily available. Flat tops are doable. 21pline outer though? not sure. Seen 44 outers break left and right with 37s plus. Cheaper than 60s or portals

D60s are not so available, and would really be ebst to get aftermarket through Crane or Dedenbear. $$$$$$$$ Dont break to often with 37s plus. Prolly same price as portals.

Its all opinion, but in a dream, what COULD be the ulimate lightwieght killer axle?

[Lawn Cher']

in a dream, what COULD be the ulimate lightwieght killer axle?

Make it from unobtanium.

[Ludakris]

Make it from unobtanium.


or turbonium..

[Kittrell]

I've always liked the 9" front with 60 outers. The 44/60 is a nice hybrid but it limits you to an ARB. I think a 9"/60 front and rear is a great combo. Lightweight and strong. Great aftermarket support for the 9" center section. Especially now with the High 9, Hp 9" centersection's front and rear with 60 outers...................:dunno:

http://www.wagonermachine.com/hybrid9.jpg

[Paul S]

I've always liked the 9" front with 60 outers. The 44/60 is a nice hybrid but it limits you to an ARB. I think a 9"/60 front and rear is a great combo. Lightweight and strong. Great aftermarket support for the 9" center section. Especially now with the High 9, Hp 9" centersection's front and rear with 60 outers...................:dunno:

http://www.wagonermachine.com/hybrid9.jpg

Why would it limit you to an ARB? You can get HP9 35 spline Detroit, LSD, spool, etc...
I think you're limited to an ARB if you go 40 spline, but not 35.
Paul

[Paul S]

First, Paul what are your specs on the front end? I know you are number one with wieght concern. #2 is strength.

For me, I need strength then wieght. It looks like 39.5"s are whats to roll under when the time comes around. Tire size and suspension ideas is why I am looking at building one off axles.

Here is what I feel about portals:

They kick ass for clearance, but its fact that if you REALLY get on them, they WILL break. The boxes are the weak part. Comp buggies break these things. Now, my goal is 4300lbs or less. So that plus 40s would be enough to break that . Or i think.

Should we wieght and outwieght the difference between outers? I suppose thats where it matters?

D44s are readily available. Flat tops are doable. 21pline outer though? not sure. Seen 44 outers break left and right with 37s plus. Cheaper than 60s or portals

D60s are not so available, and would really be ebst to get aftermarket through Crane or Dedenbear. $$$$$$$$ Dont break to often with 37s plus. Prolly same price as portals.

Its all opinion, but in a dream, what COULD be the ulimate lightwieght killer axle?

Correct, for me weight was my 1st consideration, strength came 2nd.

I had Currie build a shaved housing with 44 ends, no brackets.
Currie HP 3rd, 31 spline Warn inners, D44 Warn stubs, drive flanges', CTM's, hi-steer, 3 link, etc...

The housing with brackets welded on weighs 70lbs, the 3rd weighs 71lbs, the complete front end (hub to hub) weighs 330lbs.

I have no strength gains over a 44 where it matters, maybe a little lighter, but probably not enough to make a difference. The only reason I went with a 9 over a 44 was because I had a $1500 3rd that needed a home, & I was able to order a housing locally & avoid searching the junkyards for an HP44.

If I were going bigger than 37's I'd have gone 9/60.

Paul

[Jes]

Paul, did you go with the 30 spline stubs from your old D30?

[Kittrell]

The 44/60 is a nice hybrid but it limits you to an ARB.

Why would it limit you to an ARB? You can get HP9 35 spline Detroit, LSD, spool, etc...
I think you're limited to an ARB if you go 40 spline, but not 35.
Paul

That was pertaining to a hybrid 44/60, 35 spline ARB is the only option......... :lecture:

[Paul S]

Paul, did you go with the 30 spline stubs from your old D30?

No, I went the traditional route.

Paul

[Jes]

No, I went the traditional route.

Paul

Got lazy like me huh?

[Paul S]

Got lazy like me huh?

Yeah, that's actually the only reason I ended-up with a 3 link :laugh3:

Paul

[Jes]

Yeah, that's actually the only reason I ended-up with a 3 link :laugh3:

Paul


Ya, too much work(and adds too much weight) welding on that fourth mount. :D

[CRASH]

Yeah, that's actually the only reason I ended-up with a 3 link :laugh3:

Paul

Did everything fit as designed? Is it rolling yet?

CRASH

[Paul S]

Did everything fit as designed? Is it rolling yet?

CRASH

Sure did, no clearance issues at all.
It's rolling, but I need to bleed the brakes. I think I may have drilled out the brake-line block at a little bit of an angle as it's leaking.

Paul

[Goatman]

That was pertaining to a hybrid 44/60, 35 spline ARB is the only option......... :lecture:

There is a 35 spline Detroit for a D44, that's an option for the Superior Super 44. When I built my front end that's what I wanted to use to build the D44/D60 that I was trying to do, but you couldn't buy the 35 spline Detroit seperate from the Super 44 kit. Don't know if Superior still has an exclusive on it, and whether you can get one or not. Back then, guys were still experimenting with D60 shafts resplined to 30 splines, but they weren't holding up...even Toys were breaking them because it went too far through the case hardening.

[Lincoln]

There is a 35 spline Detroit for a D44, that's an option for the Superior Super 44. When I built my front end that's what I wanted to use to build the D44/D60 that I was trying to do, but you couldn't buy the 35 spline Detroit seperate from the Super 44 kit. Don't know if Superior still has an exclusive on it, and whether you can get one or not. Back then, guys were still experimenting with D60 shafts resplined to 30 splines, but they weren't holding up...even Toys were breaking them because it went too far through the case hardening.

The detroit in the super 44's are 33 spline. Yes they can be bought seperate. ARB makes both the 33 and 35 spline flavors.

[Lincoln]

Some handy info I've thought and thought and thought some more about.

30 spline stubs using the standard 44 knuckles.

Small bearing GM spindle:
Bore at end of spindle = 1.290"
Thickness at outter bearing = .170"
Shaft spindle bearing surface = 1.31"

Thoughts bore the spindle out .030". This would give about .005" clearance at the end of the spindle for the stub. Then have a 30 spline 1.31" stub made. Only drops the side thickness down to .155" which shouldn't be too much of a loss. The regular 30 spline lockouts for the CJ internal kit or the XJ/YJ/TJ conversion will work with the 44 hub.

Another route that will work is to go the CJ setup route. If you use the CJ spindle (requires a bored spindle for 30 stubs otherwise 27 spline) and buy Warn's internal locking hub kit. Nice because it drops about an inch of the stub shaft. The people I have talked to claim there is a loss in strenght because of less flex in the shorter stub. My theory is with 4340 stubs there isn't much flex anyway so they are still stronger than the standard 19 spline stubs. For the brakes you use the GM caliper mount and caliper. This requires a slightly (believe .015") offset wheel bearing to keep inner (?) pad from dragging.

As everyone knows I drive like a blind old lady. I've taken out four hubs so far on curbs and the 1" less in stub length sounds very appealing.

[Lincoln]

One more post. This for the 44/60 idea.

I've got everything pretty well narrowed down and collecting a few parts here and there. I've had a 78 Ferd axle with the cast mounts for a while now. They use the 3.125" tubes which is pretty close to the 60 (ball joint and king pin from what I've measured.

Option 1 using king pin knuckles:
Width is a major issue. I measured 10.5" from where the inner C's weld is to the mounting surface for the wheel on my 44. The king pin 60's are 13.5". Since the 60 inner C's are almost 2" thick at the tube I don't see a problem milling off around 1" on the inside side (Kazman tip :) ). That gets it down to 2" different. I also figured another 1"-1.5" could get had by raising the coil mounts a couple of inches up off the top of the tube. On my current setup my coils bow out to the axle mounts about 3/4" so by raising a few inches the mounts could be moved inward on the bridge and the 60 inner C slopes pretty quickly which would allow it to tuck under the mount some. Hopefully this would keep the width down around 62 or 63 inches.

Option 2 using the Super Duty Knuckles:
The super poopy stuff is only 11.5" from the weld in the inner C to the wheel mounting surface. This helps with the width issue a bunch. I don't see the unit bearing or ball joints being an issue on a lighter rig with 40's or smaller. Currie claims they will take more though. The stock bearing (pre 2005) has to be bored to run 35 spline stubs. Warn hubs or regular drive flanges will still work. If you use hubs a step has to be cut while boring for accomodate a needle bearing for the stub.

The high steer setup is a little more tricky though. The knuckle has to be milled flat and the three studs end up fairly close together. Most are running a spacer tieing the new upper arm to the factory lower for added strength and I haven't heard of any problems even with hydo assist.

All of the Dana 50/60 knuckles are the same except for the F-450 which runs a lot larger rotor and caliper bracket (cast into the knuckle on all). Currie and other aftermarket caliper brackets for willwoods only work on the F-450 knuckle. So if you use the 250 or 350 knuckle you either have to run the stock brakes with 16" or larger wheels or come up with your own mount. Since these have a bastard wheel patern it would be best to drill out the hub and rotor to another pattern.

I like the super poopy option. The WMS to the end of the hub is aroudn 1.5" shorter than a 44 and a bunch shorter than a 60. Also the tighter design in general makes it easier to keep the width down. Problem is cost of parts. The unit bearings new are around $300 by themselves. Best case would be finding a whole housing that is in good enough condition for a resonable price, this has come up pretty short on my end. On the one bend D50 housing I found the yard would only part it out to the tune $700-$1000 (I got tired of listening). Complete axles are running higher than the king pin stuff I've found.

When putting the 1.5" shafts into a front 44 housing I haven't found a factory style seal that will work. The bore from the inside of the housing is too tight to make larger so a normal flat faced seal would have to be used. I didn't see this as much of an issue since I wouldn't plan on changing them often. The OD on a standard 44 is 2.625" so finding a seal that would work on a 60 shaft shouldn't be a problem.

[Goatman]

30 spline stubs using the standard 44 knuckles.

Small bearing GM spindle:
Bore at end of spindle = 1.290"
Thickness at outter bearing = .170"
Shaft spindle bearing surface = 1.31"

Thoughts bore the spindle out .030". This would give about .005" clearance at the end of the spindle for the stub. Then have a 30 spline 1.31" stub made. Only drops the side thickness down to .155" which shouldn't be too much of a loss. The regular 30 spline lockouts for the CJ internal kit or the XJ/YJ/TJ conversion will work with the 44 hub.

Another route that will work is to go the CJ setup route. If you use the CJ spindle (requires a bored spindle for 30 stubs otherwise 27 spline) and buy Warn's internal locking hub kit. Nice because it drops about an inch of the stub shaft. The people I have talked to claim there is a loss in strenght because of less flex in the shorter stub. My theory is with 4340 stubs there isn't much flex anyway so they are still stronger than the standard 19 spline stubs. For the brakes you use the GM caliper mount and caliper. This requires a slightly (believe .015") offset wheel bearing to keep inner (?) pad from dragging.

As everyone knows I drive like a blind old lady. I've taken out four hubs so far on curbs and the 1" less in stub length sounds very appealing.

I'd like to have the larger 30 spline stubs. I'd also like to have shorter spindles and stubs, since with the 3" bead lock rings I run I should be able to ditch the hub protectors, which work great but are very heavy.

However, I keep wondering about the strength of the thinner and shorter splindle. It's not a big deal for rockcrawling, but I think about smacking a big rock while hauling ass and bending the spindle. I remember CRASH's incident of bending a D44 spindle, and that was the thicker spindle for the 19 spline stub. I don't know how much of an issue it would really be, but it's something I wonder about.

[Lincoln]

I'd like to have the larger 30 spline stubs. I'd also like to have shorter spindles and stubs, since with the 3" bead lock rings I run I should be able to ditch the hub protectors, which work great but are very heavy.

However, I keep wondering about the strength of the thinner and shorter splindle. It's not a big deal for rockcrawling, but I think about smacking a big rock while hauling ass and bending the spindle. I remember CRASH's incident of bending a D44 spindle, and that was the thicker spindle for the 19 spline stub. I don't know how much of an issue it would really be, but it's something I wonder about.

I keep telling him if he didn't drive like an idiot that wouldn't be a problem. :D I don't think even the 60 stuff (unit bearing or spindle) will hold up to pegging a rock at speed. The large bearing spindle is what came stock under many of te 3/4T pickups also. Somethings going to give.

I also wonder how balanced the entire assembly would be. If the larger stub gained 15% in strenth but the joint fails 10% behind that, I don't think it would be worth the trouble for the 5% gain.

That's why I've been leaning heavily towards building a hybrid. I've always thought that Warn's an CTM's in a 44 would about the equivalent of 35 spline spicer parts for the 60. If your breaking those (stroker + 37's hint hint) it's probably time to go for some real strenth increase.

Personally this is what I would build (damn I like to dream):
9" Housing with lighter tubes, 3/16" or 1/4" tubes and 60 knuckles. I would probably go with the Super Duty stuff for the shorter shaft, but if I was going to beat on it I would stay with the king pin stuff.

Truss it all the way accross the top. Heavier tubes gain strenth, but trussing it correctly with lighter tubes would keep the weight down and still have the flex control. Integrating the mounts with the truss would keep the overall height down for any clearance issues.

True Hi9 pig. Paul needs to take some measurments for us. The higher pinion should help with the CV binding during high speed attack runs as well as getting the drive shaft out of the rocks some more. Also the pinion would be offset to the drivers side so the actual center could be moved more towards the center to make room for the knuckles. They are expensive but not really that much more than an aftermarket HP 60 center, locker, and gears. The cost of the 9" housing offsets it a good amount.

It's getting easier to obtain 40 spline stuff for the outter (inner really isn't a problem on the 9") if you really need stupid strong.

[Matt S.]

Lincoln! That is a dream for me too. Have you priced something like that out? For us to build or a shop to build?

Why would you run superduty stuff?

I would think if your going 60, go kingpin. you can get new knuckles pretty well priced for aftermarket ones.

[Lincoln]

Lincoln! That is a dream for me too. Have you priced something like that out? For us to build or a shop to build?

Why would you run superduty stuff?

I would think if your going 60, go kingpin. you can get new knuckles pretty well priced for aftermarket ones.

We don't talk prices, just build. :D As a guess and using mostly used parts $3-5K, you build. Having someone like Sunray build it with new parts I could see $6K easy. $2200 for a 3rd and ARB is a major chunk. Axles can be had for $600, then CTM's $550, misc stuff $500, and then the housing. Currie wants $2200 for the F-450 outter setup if you go that route. Beating on your shit costs $$$.

My reasoning is buried in there for the super duty stuff. It is easier to keep the width down and the stub length is much shorter than a kingpin 60. A short stub means the actual hub in the center of the wheel protrudes less. Don't have to worry about taking a hub off on a rock as easy. After market king pin stuff is nice, but most of us don't need the added stregth. It ends up just costing more.

[Matt S.]

Superduty stuff... interesting? Without searching I am asking this stuff, so stuff it.

Do you have the 35 spline outers available? I like the idea of the shorter stubs.

I know everyone likes to do stuff right the first time. And I am a very big believer when it comes to axles.

I am hopefully going to make a desicion on this crap within a month or so. I would like to start buying the parts.

PaulS, do you feel it was truely worth the moolla to buy the Hi9. I know they have tire size recomendations. You feel they are necessary?

[Lincoln]

Superduty stuff... interesting? Without searching I am asking this stuff, so stuff it.

Do you have the 35 spline outers available? I like the idea of the shorter stubs.

You need to read my long ass posts better. :D

Option 2 using the Super Duty Knuckles:
The super poopy stuff is only 11.5" from the weld in the inner C to the wheel mounting surface. This helps with the width issue a bunch. I don't see the unit bearing or ball joints being an issue on a lighter rig with 40's or smaller. Currie claims they will take more though. The stock bearing (pre 2005) has to be bored to run 35 spline stubs. Warn hubs or regular drive flanges will still work. If you use hubs a step has to be cut while boring for accomodate a needle bearing for the stub.


PaulS, do you feel it was truely worth the moolla to buy the Hi9. I know they have tire size recomendations. You feel they are necessary?
Only the Currie 9 has the tire limitations that I know of. The true Hi9 is a much better deal in my opinion.
http://www.truehi9.com/index.html

[Matt S.]

haha.. reading would be a good thing wouldnt it.

[Lincoln]

haha.. reading would be a good thing wouldnt it.

You would think I might be smart enought to fix the grammer errors when quoting myself. :doh:

[Paul S]

True Hi9 pig. Paul needs to take some measurments for us. The higher pinion should help with the CV binding during high speed attack runs as well as getting the drive shaft out of the rocks some more. Also the pinion would be offset to the drivers side so the actual center could be moved more towards the center to make room for the knuckles. They are expensive but not really that much more than an aftermarket HP 60 center, locker, and gears. The cost of the 9" housing offsets it a good amount.

It's getting easier to obtain 40 spline stuff for the outter (inner really isn't a problem on the 9") if you really need stupid strong.

What do you want me to measure?
My True Hi9 is noticeably higher & shorter than my Currie HP9.
Other than being very high, the True Hi9 takes up very little space, especially compared to the Currie 3rd.

Paul

[Paul S]

PaulS, do you feel it was truely worth the moolla to buy the Hi9. I know they have tire size recomendations. You feel they are necessary?

They have no limitations, so yes, it was worth it for me.
My Currie HP9 often dictated how hard I'd push things, I was ready to not worry about it anymore.

Paul

[Jeff 98XJ WI]

Sure did, no clearance issues at all.
It's rolling, but I need to bleed the brakes. I think I may have drilled out the brake-line block at a little bit of an angle as it's leaking.

Paul

I've heard this from you west coasters a couple times, but I just thought I would throw out that you can run Waggy brake calipers and they use the smaller banjo bolt so there is no need to drill out any XJ lines. The rest of the caliper is identical to the Chevy unit as far as I know. I know the mount is the same. They are less than $20 for a rebuilt caliper too. Jeff

[Lincoln]

I've heard this from you west coasters a couple times, but I just thought I would throw out that you can run Waggy brake calipers and they use the smaller banjo bolt so there is no need to drill out any XJ lines. The rest of the caliper is identical to the Chevy unit as far as I know. I know the mount is the same. They are less than $20 for a rebuilt caliper too. Jeff

:thumbup: I just picked some up yesterday.

[Lincoln]

What do you want me to measure?
My True Hi9 is noticeably higher & shorter than my Currie HP9.
Other than being very high, the True Hi9 takes up very little space, especially compared to the Currie 3rd.

Paul

1. Centerline of the tubes up.
2. Verticle center of the diff to the pinion. Offset of the pinion I guess. Is my assuption correct that it is offset to the passenger side in the rear and drives side for a front app?

I'm wondering if it wouldn't be worth the extra $$ to use one in front with the 60 knuckles. I could push the housing towards the center and still keep the driveline out of the header. That could free up a little more room for the 60 knuckles.

[BrettM]

This is anti-jeep, but so is Ford 9" axles, but Toyota axles have made leaps and bounds of progress in the last year or so. They are very light weight with excellent clearance, there are new birfs/shafts out now that are stronger than D60 Spicer stuff, there are hub upgrades, custom housings, HP centers, factory E-lockers, very strong gears if you keep it to 4.88 and below and cryo-treating available for the gears, etc, etc, etc...

here's some good places to start:

http://www.diamondaxle.com/front_steering.htm
http://www.longfieldsuperaxles.com/

[Lincoln]

This is anti-jeep, but so is Ford 9" axles, but Toyota axles have made leaps and bounds of progress in the last year or so. They are very light weight with excellent clearance, there are new birfs/shafts out now that are stronger than D60 Spicer stuff, there are hub upgrades, custom housings, HP centers, factory E-lockers, very strong gears if you keep it to 4.88 and below and cryo-treating available for the gears, etc, etc, etc...

here's some good places to start:

http://www.diamondaxle.com/front_steering.htm
http://www.longfieldsuperaxles.com/

Have you priced the custom housings? $1000 Pretty steep when you could almost get a Tera 60 front housing for that.

I think the Toy's are a good option for 35's and down, maybe 36's. But with a 6 cyl and low gears I start to worry about the ring gear strenth. With 4 cyl I've seem them hold up to some abusing with 38's a 5.71's, but on the otherhand I've seen guys with 5.29's and 36's break them once a year. I think the R&P setup is critical.

If your willing to change to a passenger side drop I see it feasable, but you have to run wheel spacers to get the width in the 60" range. That might become an issue with heavy tires. To get a drives side drop I don't think the dollars are worth it. The front axles are a clamshell design with a top and bottom half. There are no actual tubes which makes any custom width a PITA.

I've been researching the Toy option for dad's YJ. I think the only way to do it and still keep the pricing within reason is to take a rear housing and retube it for a front app, then weld the balls from a front housing to it. The rears are a design like the Ford with a center section and seperate tubes. I haven't had the desire to cut a front housing up and see how the housing ends are put together.

BTW, dad's e-locker had one of the pickups for the limit switch desinigrate making it so it wouldn't unlock. That part isn't available as a replacement. A new actuator is $450 and we found a used one for $250. If it does it again that will be the end of the e-lock and Downy's manual cable looks like a hunk of crap. I'm losing faith in them rapidly. There should be three pickup tabs in the picture below.
http://home.rmci.net/lincoln/gears/elock_parts-1.jpg

[Matt S.]

I think toys are great axles. But 40s and a strong 4.0 would kill them on the street. I want to run the deepest gears possible. If its Hi9, then 5.38. If its another configuration, I would like to see 6+:1 in the diff.

[BrettM]

both understandable arguements, just throwing it out there.

what 39.5s do you plan to run on the street, are you going to have a tow rig? Iroks? TSLs? My understanding is that Iroks won't last long at all on the street. If you're looking at the Iroks, you should consider the 42s, they are only a tiny bit taller but have much more tread depth and a squarer shape.

With 40s on the street I would definitely want 6+ gears, even in the 7s would probably be fine since I would guess such a beast wouldn't see any time over 65mph.

[Matt S.]

I am REALLY REALLY thinking about trying the new Pitbull tires out. By that time, they should have either proven themselves good or bad. Its either those or the Maxxis Terrapordors (sp?) I can get them in 39.5" or 40" on 17" rims.

I might have a trailer, but to be totally honest. I dont want one. I REALLY want to drive to places and be preparred. But who knows, for me, this is a year plus off.

[Lincoln]

The ratio is a delima. I predict your pocket book is going to get very light. :)

[Matt S.]

Why you say that? Gears are gears. maybe a little more in cost. But sometime you have no choice. Yea, my pocket book will get light. But I save alot, and can buy stuff slowly until I have collected all the parts. I am in no rush.

[Lincoln]

Why you say that? Gears are gears. maybe a little more in cost. But sometime you have no choice. Yea, my pocket book will get light. But I save alot, and can buy stuff slowly until I have collected all the parts. I am in no rush.

Just to get everything you want (justified) it's going to be tough. The volvo axles are a good idea and are fairly cheap. Only everything I've done that started cheap became a cash magnet quick. :D

Was it Avalanche or Poison Spyder that made the Ford 9" with Portals? You could get the gears, but only with the low pinion 9. It might end up being the same pinion height as a standard axle. The were $10K or something like that though.

For a portal this one doesn't sound bad.:
http://www.stazworks.com/axels.html

[Matt S.]

I have sent out an email to team purple regarding this thread.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=349023&page=2&pp=25&highlight=volvo+portal


What you think? not sure what all is going on, but he should get back to me eventually!

[BrettM]

they look pretty cool, but they've been talking about them for a while and nothing more is showing up, so I wouldn't hold your breath. It would probably still be cheaper to adapt volvo or mog outers.

a picture that shows the Team Purple portals well, not for those on dialup: http://www.teampurple.net/IMG_0203.JPG

[Paul S]

1. Centerline of the tubes up.
2. Verticle center of the diff to the pinion. Offset of the pinion I guess. Is my assuption correct that it is offset to the passenger side in the rear and drives side for a front app?

I'm wondering if it wouldn't be worth the extra $$ to use one in front with the 60 knuckles. I could push the housing towards the center and still keep the driveline out of the header. That could free up a little more room for the 60 knuckles.

It's going to be difficult to get accurate measurements, I'm thinking a couple of photos might be more useful. I'll see what I can do tonight.
You are correct on the offset.

With the True Hi9 you could probably center the 3rd more than most, but I don't think this solves the 60 problem, assuming your goal is to keep the 60 close to stock width. The problem isn't coil clearance between the inner C & the Diff., the problem is that under 63" (I think), the inner C's will force the your coils inward.

Paul

[BrettM]

the problem is that under 63" (I think), the inner C's will force the your coils inward.

Paul

coilovers :D

[Paul S]

coilovers :D

Or leaf springs :laugh3:

Paul

[Lincoln]

the problem is that under 63" (I think), the inner C's will force the your coils inward.

Paul

I was hoping to set the coil up on the knuckle somewhat. It would be tight, but I like it tight.

[Lincoln]

It's going to be difficult to get accurate measurements, I'm thinking a couple of photos might be more useful. I'll see what I can do tonight.
You are correct on the offset.
Paul

Not to worried about accurate. Just round to the nearest 1/2". I'm guessing 1.5" higher than a 30 or 44, or around there.

[Goatman]

Not to worried about accurate. Just round to the nearest 1/2".

Yeah....this is all just a pipe dream for Lincoln anyway. He talks and talks (types and types), and then goes hunting.

Mental masterbation..... :moon:






:D

[Lincoln]

Mental masterbation..... :moon:
:D

:thumbup:

[magoo117]

I have a 9" center section mated to a Mog 404 portal axle sitting in my garage. It's roughed (needs a bit more welding) together and really just needs the custom axles made for it. I had a Currie HP 9" for it and they told me it would have to be used as a low pinion due to the portal rotation. I've driven myself crazy trying to figure out if that is correct and just how the rotation goes. Anybody have experience here? Do you know anybody who can do custom axles?
The reason for going 9" center section with an XJ is cuz the Mog pinion is extremely loonnnnng! 18" as I recall. I ended up making a custom rear NASCAR floater rear axle and used the Currie HP in that.

Also I have fit 16.5" rims to stock Mog 404 drums. That is the bare minimum. They do fit but it's tighter than the proverbial gnat's *&#@*!!!

I have seen and coresponded with a fellow who put stock Mog axles under an XJ without moving the front pinion over. He used a two piece (actually two drive shafts) drive shaft(s) with a pillow block bearing to seperate the pieces. He said it worked pretty good.
It is correct,you need low pinion chunks to make them spin the right direction.There is a place by us that does them for alot of the buggies.There name is Skunkworks,I dont have any other info on them other than they are in Pa,outside of Philly I think.

[magoo117]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v616/magoo117/chassis_2.jpg "Lightweight 60 Knuckles - Laser cut lightweight 60 knuckles are the ticket for true off-road performance. The Spidertrax Lightweight 60 Knuckles are significantly smaller, lighter, and more durable then OEM or cast Dana 60 knuckles. A ball and race mounting system with two 3/4" bolts is used for assembling the knuckles. Serviceability is as easy as removing two bolts! Works with any axle using Dana type 60 u-joints."That was quoted from Spidertrax website.These are very trick.These outers with a True Hi9 center would be awesome!!!I dont think they are out yet but I'd sign up for them before anything else.

[Bent]

Not to change the subject too much, magoo mentioned the 9". My questions relate to a daily driver for the most part. Running a Currie high clearance (shaved) in a rear application would it be prudent to add an oil cooler? I know there are several shaved pumpkins running in the front w/o lock out hubs that don't have an issue. The front would not have the load even though it would still be rotating. The pump would be mounted above the axle below the cargo area, as well as the radiator. I don't think it would require a high rate pump such as you would want for engine lubrication, maybe less than a gallon per minute. Too bad an electric fuel pump would prolly die from the temp. of the oil and the high viscosity, they are quite a bit cheaper.
The lines would have to enter from as near the top as possable to avoid getting ripped off. Power for the pump would be via a relay off of the fuel pump circiut since it already back there.
Anyway, before I go on and on here, am I just over thinking things (AGAIN). Or, should I get serious about how to hook all this up, seeng as how the reallity of the matter is close at hand?
I seem to see where more and more people are trimming the snot out of thier housings, It has to be effecting the temp. and oil life and ultimatly the life of the hard parts. Has anybody played around with an external pump and cooler?

TIM

[BrettM]

Not to change the subject too much, magoo mentioned the 9". My questions relate to a daily driver for the most part. Running a Currie high clearance (shaved) in a rear application would it be prudent to add an oil cooler? I know there are several shaved pumpkins running in the front w/o lock out hubs that don't have an issue. The front would not have the load even though it would still be rotating. The pump would be mounted above the axle below the cargo area, as well as the radiator. I don't think it would require a high rate pump such as you would want for engine lubrication, maybe less than a gallon per minute. Too bad an electric fuel pump would prolly die from the temp. of the oil and the high viscosity, they are quite a bit cheaper.
The lines would have to enter from as near the top as possable to avoid getting ripped off. Power for the pump would be via a relay off of the fuel pump circiut since it already back there.
Anyway, before I go on and on here, am I just over thinking things (AGAIN). Or, should I get serious about how to hook all this up, seeng as how the reallity of the matter is close at hand?
I seem to see where more and more people are trimming the snot out of thier housings, It has to be effecting the temp. and oil life and ultimatly the life of the hard parts. Has anybody played around with an external pump and cooler?

TIM
personally, I think you're overthinking it. I have a Toy 8" that I chopped the bottom off of and replaced with 1/4" plate within an 1/8" of the ring gear. I put the truck on a downslope when I fill the diff so it slightly overfills. I think it's good enough, 10,000 miles so far.

[Bent]

personally, I think you're overthinking it.

Yea, :twak: that happens.


TIM