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motha truckin death wobble

olivedrabcj7

NAXJA Member #1384
Ok i know were all sick of hearing about deathwobble. Im pretty sure Ive read everything the entire internet has to offer on deathwobble. Searched several sites including TJ and ZJ forums as well. Im gettin real pissed off at this death wobble thing. Here is my scenario.
I have a 97 XJ with 6.5" lift and RE drop brackets, adjustable track bar, and fixed upper and lower control arms. Im running 36x12.50 TSL (bias ply NON-radials) with about 50% tread left. Approaching 40 mph i get a little shimmy in the wheel, the faster i go...the worse it gets. Once i feel the shimmy coming on, i can slow down to about 30 mph and it will go away. Bumps arent causing this either. It has something to do with speed. Once i hit 40 mph, its full blown deathwobble and im forced to slam the brakes to avoid a wreck.

here are the things ive done to solve DW with no success so far:
1. alignment (caster and toe)
2. wheel balancing (i ended up with weights halfway around my wheels on
both sides and a pissed off tire guy)
3. re-torqued every bolt under my rig to factory specs +10lbs
4. another alignment at a different shop
5. checked all TRE's and ball joints for any play (also had mechanic check these during both alignments). i have nothing loose.
6. stock steering stabilizer (may be worn out, but that shouldnt be the problem)

the only thing i can figure is my tires are out of round. would this be significant enough to cause the all out deathwobble?

also, my axle isnt 100% centered under the jeep. the way it sits, its about 3/4" to the drivers side because my trackbar is a little too short. both alignment shops said this wouldnt have anything to do with the wobble since its not coming from bumps in the road.

HELP!!!!!!!!

EDIT: I also must add that im hearind a scrubbing sound from my drivers side caliper. it sounds like swoosh swoosh swoosh swoosh swoosh. and it gets worse the faster i go. could this be related?
 
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In my experiance,the axle must be centered.You need to get an adjustable track bar and center the axle.

Been there.
 
i have an adjustable trackbar but its for a 4.5" lift and i have 2" spacers on top of a 4.5" lift. and i dont feel comfortable with 2 threads holding the TRE in. i will probably weld an extension in the straight part of it to lengthen it so i can adjust it right.
 
olivedrabcj7 said:
I have a 97 XJ with 6.5" lift and RE drop brackets, adjustable track bar, and fixed upper and lower control arms. Im running 36x12.50 TSL (bias ply NON-radials) with about 50% tread left. Approaching 40 mph i get a little shimmy in the wheel, the faster i go...the worse it gets. Once i feel the shimmy coming on, i can slow down to about 30 mph and it will go away. Bumps arent causing this either. It has something to do with speed. Once i hit 40 mph, its full blown deathwobble and im forced to slam the brakes to avoid a wreck.
Bumps aren't causing it because they never get the chance. Your junk tires get it started first.
olivedrabcj7 said:
1. alignment (caster and toe)
No specs on castor and toe ???
olivedrabcj7 said:
2. wheel balancing (i ended up with weights halfway around my wheels on both sides and a pissed off tire guy)
Dynamic or static ??? Static sucks for death wobble. Dynamic does too if your tires aren't round.
olivedrabcj7 said:
3. re-torqued every bolt under my rig to factory specs +10lbs
Why the extra 10lbs? Use a torque wrench you can trust and don't stretch your bolts past their yield point.
olivedrabcj7 said:
4. another alignment at a different shop
Still no specs for castor and toe ???
olivedrabcj7 said:
5. checked all TRE's and ball joints for any play (also had mechanic check these during both alignments). i have nothing loose.
Something's loose...
olivedrabcj7 said:
6. stock steering stabilizer (may be worn out, but that shouldnt be the problem)
Replace it. It's not there for the bling factor.
olivedrabcj7 said:
the only thing i can figure is my tires are out of round. would this be significant enough to cause the all out deathwobble?
Your tires are junk, your alignment specs are unknown, your stabilizer is shot, you have something loose, but haven't found it yet. Any clues in there ???
olivedrabcj7 said:
also, my axle isnt 100% centered under the jeep. the way it sits, its about 3/4" to the drivers side because my trackbar is a little too short. both alignment shops said this wouldnt have anything to do with the wobble since its not coming from bumps in the road.
And, besides all the above, your axle isn't centered...
olivedrabcj7 said:
EDIT: I also must add that im hearind a scrubbing sound from my drivers side caliper. it sounds like swoosh swoosh swoosh swoosh swoosh. and it gets worse the faster i go. could this be related?
probably the only thing you've mentioned that doesn't have something to do with it. Take care of all the obvious problems you've mentioned and then you'll be in a better position to resolve the problem if that doesn't do it. At 6+ inches of lift you should be upgrading your steering. High steer and a raised track bar mount to go along with it. That will help the track bar locate the axle laterally, which is one of the factors controlly death wobble.
 
since MAX put it so eloquently..... i will echo that your tires are likely your problem... swap them front-to-rear and see if you have the same problem... i've seen TSLs wear in a bumpy pattern and play hell with your front end.
 
castor is at 6 degrees and the toe is at 1/8" in
 
2001 RE 5.5 w/adj. trackbar, 32's, OFF CENTER AXLE aprox. 3/4 inch. NO DEATHWOBBLE
:lecture: My point.........the axle doesn't have to be perfectly centered. I believe the toe should be as close to 0 as possible. I agree, most likely the tires are your problem, bias ply on highway (n) Probably way out of round.
 
i bought a new rancho stabilizer from o reilleys this morning and had hell getting the old one off. the upper mount was frozen and rusted in the draglink. after the heat treatment and some extreme hammering and prying i got it loose. what a PITA!! the new one is on. im going to swap my tires front to rear in a little bit and take her for a drive.

i layed under there once again with the torque wrench and there isnt anything loose under there. i repeat NOTHING is loose. this is the third time everything has been torqued since i did the lift and its been driven a couple hundred miles since then. im ruling out loose suspension components. the bushings are all in good shape as well.

i was running about 15 lbs of air in the tires on the road trying to loosen them up maybe to wear out the bad spots in the tires. yesterday i aired them up to about 25 psi and they seem WORSE. ill probably air them back down to about 18 psi and see how they do.

i also checked the ball joints and theyre all tight. i had a buddy turn the steering wheel back and forth about 1/4 turn each direction while i layed under there looking and nothing is moving or giving at all.

does anyone think tossing about 6 golf balls in each tire would help my more than likely out-of-round tires out any?

so after having 2 alignments (caster 6 degrees, toe 1/8" in), torquing, re torquing, and re torquing again all suspension components, confirming my ball joints and TRE's are all tight and have no movement, is it now safe to say my problem is all in my tires like the people that posted above believe?
 
olivedrabcj7 said:
so after having 2 alignments (caster 6 degrees, toe 1/8" in), torquing, re torquing, and re torquing again all suspension components, confirming my ball joints and TRE's are all tight and have no movement, is it now safe to say my problem is all in my tires like the people that posted above believe?

Maybe you can answer a question for me first... I have this round fruit in my lunch, it is orange in color and has kind of a pimply textured skin and smells nice. I heard somewhere it might be called an orange, and the guy in the next cubicle said it is definitely an orange, but I wanted to get an expert opinion from someone at NAXJA. Is it now safe to say I have an orange in my lunch like so many people have already told me?

Yes, your tires are more than likely the culprit. Get some radials, make sure they are balanced so you don't get cupping of the tread, and enjoy the pleasure of modern tire design. With bias swampers you might as well weld a stack of stop signs to your wheels.
 
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have you had somebody crank the stem on this fruit while you lay under it to see if there is any leaking of juices or looseness to the skin? i would take it to a grocer and have them weigh it and check it for out-of-round. with so many orange fruits out there, it could be a grapefruit, or a mango, or others.

thanks. ill quit my bitching and go hug my swampers and be happy.
 
olivedrabcj7 said:
have you had somebody crank the stem on this fruit while you lay under it to see if there is any leaking of juices or looseness to the skin? i would take it to a grocer and have them weigh it and check it for out-of-round. with so many orange fruits out there, it could be a grapefruit, or a mango, or others.

Here's a pic:
orange.jpg


Any other ideas as to what it could be?
 
theres yer problem right there....its not a FLORIDA orange. look how out of round it is. what you have here is a generic walmart produce, orange (similar to the bias ply swamper). now.....make sure you have no cuts on your fingers before peeling, the citric acid burns! always wear safety glasses and dont use cinder blocks as jackstands. ENJOY!!
 
well ive spent about 100 bucks and the better part of a day fighting the never ending battle with death wobble. the new stabilizer did something. it keeps everything to a moderate shimmy going down the road and doesnt let it loose in to full on DW. it keeps everything under control, just with a wheel shimmy. im looking into the centramatic wheel balancers or just dumping large amounts of BB's into my tires. ive heard of people doing this and some say it works, others say it doesnt. at this point im willing to try almost anything to avoid getting new tires. i love the roar of the swampers going down the road, they perform amazing off road, and the chicks at the mall love them too.

markaboo929 said:
I Run 2 Stabilizers And Otk Steering With Hiems-no Problems At All
are you running bias ply swampers ??
 
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olivedrabcj7 said:
i love the roar of the swampers going down the road and the chicks at the mall love them too.

In that case, learn to live with the wobble!
 
ErikL said:
ok.... well enjoy your wobble, and please continue to ask questions you dont want the answers to
ehh....listen here noobie....ive taken everybodys advice thats been given on this subject shy of getting new tires. all i got left to do is try another method of balancing these tires. hows your foot taste?
 
Now I'll throw a wrench in the works. :laugh3: Just did my lift about a month ago now. Running Dakota/Cherokee mixed pack in the rear and RC coil and spacer in the front. I got 5-6 in the back and 4 1/2 - 5 1/2 in the front. Has a little rake to it that I'll deal with later. Running 31x11.5x15 STL's on Rock Crawlers. Drove to Florida and back again. No death wobble, bump steer or wandering. Castor is 6 and toe is 0, maybe even a little open. Ran 25/20 on the way down and 35 on the way back for pressures. On the way back I was loaded so much that i almost sat flat. 18 mpg way down and back average. I ran with the traffic at 70-80 mph. Some tires are good from the factory and some aren't. Good luck! I like the sound too. . .even 2600 miles of it. :D
 
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