3 inches off, the axle or the technician?>>you tell me

Just installed the RE 4.5" superflex lift on my 91'. I took the XJ in to get it professionally alligned and to have them adjust the front pinion angle (caster I believe its called) and they are having problems. The shop tells me that when on the ground the axle is 3 inches to one side of the vehicle? I used a full body hydrollic car lift during installation of the lift and when it was up in the air completely flexed out the trackbar was a couple inches too short and sat back toward the rear an inch, but when I lowered the jeep and put its weight on the wheels the trackbar lined up just perfect (I actually had to shorten the adjustment to make it fit). I guess my question is, because of my lift height and the geometry of the trackbar is this normal to have the axle shift this far during travel? It makes sence that when the suspension is 1/2 flexed, making the trackbar be in its "middle geometry" or neutral position between downflex & upflex, the axle would be perfectly centered under the vehichle, right? What do I tell the shop? They are not experts on modified vehicles and I just don't want them f!#$n stuff up trying to get the axle perfectly centered if it is not suppose to be?

I upgraded/modified the kit when I bought it. I opted for the adjustable upper and lower control arms, swaybar relocation brackets, adjustable XHD trackbar with the addition of the 1" tube extension on the superflex joint at heim end, HD trackbar relocation bracket, upper and lower control arm lowering brackets & braces, SYE, CV spicer driveshaft, t-case lowering kit, Rusty's 2" coil spacers & 2" shackles.

You want to install the trac bar while the truck is on the ground. Unbolt the TB at the axle end, have a buddy (or strap or whatever) to force the body center with the front axle. Now adjust the TB to the correct distance to install at the axle and you're done.
I think that is what you were looking for.

with the vehicle sitting on the tires, the axle needs to be centered under the body. if it's not, you didn't set the trackbar properly when you did the install.

Halfway through the install I decided I wanted to go bigger so I ordered the 2" spacer, 2" shackles, and the RE control arm lowering brackets and braces. By the time I received the parts I had completed the front suspension and my friend needed me to complete the install asap so he could use the garage and lift for his farm equipment. During the install I had bolted the trackbar to the axle and did wait UNTIL the jeep was set back on its tires and the ground before I adjusted and bolted the frame side of the trackbar into place>>>this was the last thing I did on the install before I rolled it outa the garage. It fit and drove fine on-road, I just wanted the drop brackets and braces installed to help with downtravel off-road. So I took it to be alligned and have the braces & brackets installed by the alignment shop. Installing the brackets and braces should not affect the lift height, only the angle at which the c-arms connect. I just don't understand how installing these would cause the axle to shift 3 inches? Doesn't make any sense since the bracket are in the same place just lower? The only thing I can think is that they did not remove the trackbar before they lifted the jeep in the air and somehow it bent or torqued something and now it wont allign when on the ground?

My question is: is it normal for the axle to move back and forth from the drivers side to the passenger side during different degrees of flex? When the jeep is sitting on the ground on its tires the flex should be at its nuetral position right?......and the axle should be centered then, right?.....and if the axle shifts toward the passenger or drivers side of the XJ it should only happen when the lift is compressed in or flexed out, right????? The axle shouldn't obviously move too far each way seeming the control arms are connected pretty rigidly within the brackets with not much "play" or "give" one way or the other.

D

if the track bar was the right lenght then no the axle shouldn't move side to side during flex.

the track bar should be at the same angle as your draglink.something tells me you have the wrong trackbar or you need a trackbar drop bracket on the frame to make the angle right again.

The specs for the lift are listed in the first post to this thread which informs that I DO HAVE THE TRACKBAR RELOCATION BRACKET THAT HAS BEEN MOUNTED TO THE FRAME. As far as the wrong trackbar?......it is fully adjustable so it can't be wrong, it fit perfect during the install.

The problem is the axle was centered after I completed the install, (before the control arm lowering brackets and braces were installed by the alignment shop), and now the axle is shifted to one side by 3 inches and the shop can't figure out why. The brackets and braces should not have moved the lift in any way, shape, or form after they were installed>>>>>>They only lower the vertical angle of the arms at the frame side mount. The install of the brackets and braces only should change the lift in a vertical manor but the shop is having a horizontal problems with the axle.

Look, Mate -- 3 inches is a LOT off-center. You can pretty much see if it's off by 3/4 of an inch or more -- 3 inches will be obvious from across the parking lot.

Park the Jeep on a flat, LEVEL surface and drop a string with a weight on it down from the center of each flare (if you have flares, or from the fender if you don't) on each side. Mark where it hits each tire, and compare the two.

The guy is correct -- he can't do a proper alignment unless the axle is centered. The machine won't handle it, because things like the scrub radii will be messed up. He can set the caster, but there's more to an alignment than caster.

uhm i understand how every thing works .but you are asking if it's supposed to move from side to side while cycling through the suspension travel .i was simple stating no not really .it can move a bit but not three inches.the only reason behind the axle moving is the track bar .
1 either the track bar is to short or to long
2 it's at the angle

only things that make the axle move the way you describe it.as for the trackbar drop bracket being on sorry i missed you saying that.

Thank you thank you thank you, Wil Badger for answering my question. I guess i couldn't articulate it as you did when you said:

"but you are asking if it's supposed to move from side to side while cycling through the suspension travel .i was simple stating no not really .it can move a bit but not three inches.the only reason behind the axle moving is the track bar ."

I have not personally seen the rig yet cuz it is still in the shop. I am searching for some advice to actually give the shop to solve their problem with my lift so I don't have to pay $80/hr two have 2 of there technicians stare at it for hours. (I took it in Tuesday and it is still not done = mucho $$$$$$). I am aware you could notice this from across the parking lot or even across the state, I guess I am just perplexed that when I took the thing in the axle was centered perfectly and now that the shop has put on the RE control arm brackets and braces somehow the axle has shifted? Doesn't make sense to me

D

The RE brackets drop the trailing (aft, frame) ends of the control arms. The axle height relative to the chassis is not affected by that, only by the height of the springs.

Are you saying all this is based on what they said, and you have not looked at it yet? You need to look at it. Just installing the brackets would not change the axle lateral position. If it was centered before it should be centered after. If was offset before, it would be offset by the same amount after.

I didn't understand your post -- I though you just took it in for an alignment.

As Eagle has correctly covered your question and it doesn't matter how much the axle moves through the suspension cycle left to right as far as the alignment is concerned. They just need to adjust the trackbar so it is center when it is off the lift with its weight on the tyres.
I think you would be better off just picking the thing up and following my write up on my site to set everything in the alignment up yourself. Most shops dont seem to have a clue when it comes to XJ's

www.go.jeep-xj.info

Gojeep said:

. . .
I think you would be better off just picking the thing up and following my write up on my site to set everything in the alignment up yourself. Most shops dont seem to have a clue when it comes to XJ's

www.go.jeep-xj.info

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I second GoJeep. His website is terrific. I did his manual alignment (except I went ahead and had the shop physically do the alignment - I just wanted to check how much out of alignment I was before I took it in). GoJeep's instructions resulted in almost identical information as to what the alignment shop reported. Even if you only do what I did, you will know that the shop isn't trying to screw you over.

It sounds like they never bothered to shorten the drag link after they put the drop brackets on and when they lowered the draglink, it shifted everything over.

IdahoEagle said:

It sounds like they never bothered to shorten the drag link after they put the drop brackets on and when they lowered the draglink, it shifted everything over.

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A too-long drag link would turn the wheels, not shift the axle. Aside from which, the drag link attaches to the axle, which doesn't change height when adding CA drop brackets, so why would installing the brackets require readjusting the drag link?

Or the track bar, which is what locates the axle laterally under the vehicle?

Eagle said:

A too-long drag link would turn the wheels, not shift the axle. Aside from which, the drag link attaches to the axle, which doesn't change height when adding CA drop brackets, so why would installing the brackets require readjusting the drag link?

Or the track bar, which is what locates the axle laterally under the vehicle?

Click to expand...

It wont affect them. I think you to actually go look at it...

tarantula8, confused yet?
Only takes one guy with an irrelivant answer (idahoeagle) to mess up a thread. How's this, maybe the shop screwed around with the trackbar when they installed the CA drop brackets when it was in the air. Go there and look to see if it has been adjusted.
Write it down for them:
#1 center the axle while vehicle sits on ground.
#2 do alignment
Should be easy enough to follow. Good Luck with the shop.

I talked to the owner of the shop yesterday (Saturday) and told him that I would be picking the XJ up on Monday no matter if he had it done or not. He informed me that they had it aligned now but they were not happy with it yet and they would find a way to get it to meet their standards by the end of the day Monday. I am just so concerned after spending $3000+ for parts on the lift, new brake lines, etc. and over 2 weeks labor installing it myself that they have screwed something up. When I talked to the owner last Thursday he informed me that they had never done any work on such a modified vehicle and they would not do it again on another vehicle:> It will have been there for a week this coming Tues. and I know they are going to royally stiff me with a hefty labor charge. I know that they have not had it in the shop everyday because I have driven by an seen it sit in the p-lot all day for at least 2 days.

Anyway, when I pick it up on Monday I am already prepared for a confrontation on the final bill for the services provided and plan to barter the price down. I would like to know if any of you have had an alignment done recently so I can get a ballpark figure of the cost in order to base my defense on? Anyone a mechanic......what is an expected hourly charge for this type of work? I had them swap and balance tires from my TJ and XJ and vice vs., what can I expect the cost to be? I had them also adjust the caster for the front axle to get the correct pinion angle, which they had to continuosly unbolt, adjust, and rebolt the adjustable control arms back to the frame/brackets to get it perfect.

Any info on labor pricing would be appreciated!

More than anything I wish I would have installed the brackets/braces myself as to have the piece of mind knowing it was done correctly!!!!!! I just want my baby back

tarantula8 said:

He informed me that they had it aligned now but they were not happy with it yet and they would find a way to get it to meet their standards by the end of the day Monday.

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If they aligned it and the axle is not centered under the body then the work they've done is for most part useless because when you center the axle you will have to get it realigned.

When I talked to the owner last Thursday he informed me that they had never done any work on such a modified vehicle and they would not do it again on another vehicle:>

Click to expand...

I kind of skimmed through the thread, but what work did they do appart from the alignment? Alignment is the same whether the vehicle is lifted or not. Only difference that I can think of is dropping a control arm and using the adjuster nut on the CA instead of shimming it. Otherwise then that all the values for the alignment should be the same.

I know they are going to royally stiff me with a hefty labor charge. I know that they have not had it in the shop everyday because I have driven by an seen it sit in the p-lot all day for at least 2 days.

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IMHO they should charge you only for work performed and not for "experimenting" when they didn't know what to do. If they want to overcharge you before releasing the vehicle, pay with a credit card (not a check card but a regular credit card) and dispute part or all charges as appropriate. As to the rate, what is their standard shop rate? Depending on the sate also, they might have to disclose the potential cost (estimate) before they start the work.

They also installed the RE control arm lowering brackets and braces>>>>>thats my whole problem.......I had the axle aligned as close to center before I took it to the shop without the brackets/braces installed and now somehow they say the axle is off by more than a couple inches after they installed the brackets/braces. I will find out tomorrow I guess when I pick it up, who knows? I'll try to post what I find when I see it. So far I am begining to even wonder if it is my vehicle they are even working on!!!

D

FWIW -- labor rate for independent shops around here is $65 to $75 per hour. Dealers are much higher.