Inverted T steering dead spot fix??

drfargo · May 12, 2005

So I need some help here with my steering. I'm tired of the dead spot when I daily drive on the highway. What do you guys think I should do to eliminate or at least tighten up the slop in my steering setup.

I'm thinking that I might try a drop pitman arm (what drop to get?). But before I spend a bunch of money I want to be sure it will work.

Here's a few pictures of my setup.

By the way I have tried already to clock the tie rod ends opposite directions.
Do you think moving my steering shock to the drag link will help? (I will be upgrading to a heavy duty shock soon - Grand Waggy steering shock for now is still good).

Just finished my lift about a month ago. That's why it so bling!

dsgray16 · May 12, 2005

Thats the cleanest looking front end i have ever seen! is that your stock stabalizer righ there? sorry cant really help on how to fix your prob

ChuckD · May 12, 2005

drfargo said:
So I need some help here with my steering. I'm tired of the dead spot when I daily drive on the highway. What do you guys think I should do to eliminate or at least tighten up the slop in my steering setup.

I'm thinking that I might try a drop pitman arm (what drop to get?). But before I spend a bunch of money I want to be sure it will work.

Here's a few pictures of my setup.

By the way I have tried already to clock the tie rod ends opposite directions.
Do you think moving my steering shock to the drag link will help? (I will be upgrading to a heavy duty shock soon - GW stock shock for now is still good).

There was a post awhile back, I think Old Man posted it. Basically, since your draglink is not connected to the steering knuckle this causes the TRE to rotate creating your dead spot.

You can also try puting the bracket above the tie rod and make sure the line the draglink points to the steering knuckle. Otherwise the forcse is going to turn the tierod creating the dead spot.

BrettM · May 12, 2005

you've got a D44, do crossover steering

drfargo · May 12, 2005

ChuckD

Sorry, missed that post. I know this has been discussed with the D30 inverted T steering....

I see what you mean. Just went out and looked at it. If I made a 1/4 bracket that sat on top of the pass TRE and made sure the draglink lines up directly pointed to the pass steering TRE that should keep it from rotating the tie rod. Is that what you meant?

I guess it would be cheaper than a drop pitman arm.

drfargo · May 12, 2005

Brett

Easier said than done with those coils of mine in the way. Besides I would have to find the flat top pass spindle, then change out the ball joints, then get a steering arm properly set up for it, bend a draglink so that it doesn't run in to my coil spring etc...

I would do it if I can't fix this setup! But it should be fixable??

ChuckD · May 12, 2005

drfargo said:
ChuckD

Sorry, missed that post. I know this has been discussed with the D30 inverted T steering....

I see what you mean. Just went out and looked at it. If I made a 1/4 bracket that sat on top of the pass TRE and made sure the draglink lines up directly pointed to the pass steering TRE that should keep it from rotating the tie rod. Is that what you meant?

I guess it would be cheaper than a drop pitman arm.

Yes, exactly.

mack · May 12, 2005

hmmm......i can't help here, but i would sure like to see the rest of your rig!:clap:

drfargo · May 12, 2005

Well, since you put it that way. It is still work in progress (aren't they all?) I just put the front bushys on today. Rears are next. Still have to finish fabbing my rear bumper with corner guards and a front winch bumper.

2001 XJ sport. auto 242t-case, Clayton long arms, Twin D44 with matching Electracs, 456 gears, SYE, 8 inch Rock Krawler suspension (more like 10" over stock) still settling down.

I think I did okay for my first real complete build up, considering that I did all the work myself (pat self on back).

pbandj · May 12, 2005

ooh when i saw the pictures i wondered what lift came with new ball joints, brakes, u joints, tre's...

btw your build is 'almost' complete... where's the rack or swinging bumper for your spare?, it's almost shameful to see such a nice rig with ratchet straps holding the tire down

Dingo509 · May 12, 2005

okay here's an idea diffently a band-aid but it worked for me, for a while till did a crossover. anyway, get a set of urethane body bushings for an early cj 55-74 i think usually under 20 bucks there like 13 in the box (trust me you will find uses for the others) take one and drill out the hole a little bigger then find a large fender washer that has a hole big enought that it will slide on the taper of the TRE and bottom out, the but the TRE through the washer then the bushing and tighten it back down. the bushing will let it flex if it needs to but will take alot of the slop out. just remember this is only a band-aid and the bushing will wear out. but hopefully by then you figure out how to fix it properly.

Dingo

Jes · May 12, 2005

Get some flat top knuckles and hi-steer arms, that will fix your problem permanently. You'd have to raise your trac bar mount but it would be well worth it.
No slop in my steering...

If you drive it on the hiway you shouldn't want to skimp on the steering.

Roxtar · May 12, 2005

Jes said:
Get some flat top knuckles and hi-steer arms, that will fix your problem permanently. You'd have to raise your trac bar mount but it would be well worth it.
No slop in my steering...
If you drive it on the hiway you shouldn't want to skimp on the steering.

I have the same problem and was considering going back to to the OEM type Y steering, only using the 1 Ton high steer (over the knuckle) setup. Basically just swapping the TREs on the tie rods to the right side.
Obviously, I would have to change the tie rod lengths to match.
What do you think, Jes?

Jes · May 12, 2005

Now that I look at it again I think having a dead spot is a small worry compared to the angle of that drag link end at the pitman arm, when the pass side droops it's going to max out that end big time.

Brad, I just don't see the worth in trying to get an inverted Y to work with as much lift as you are(or want to be) running. The whole idea in a front axle swap is to address all the deficiencies of the Dana30 setup which steering should be high on the list. If you want to run an inverted Y, keep the Dana30 and live with the compromises.

Roxtar · May 12, 2005

Jes said:
Now that I look at it again I think having a dead spot is a small worry compared to the angle of that drag link end at the pitman arm, when the pass side droops it's going to max out that end big time.

Brad, I just don't see the worth in trying to get an inverted Y to work with as much lift as you are(or want to be) running. The whole idea in a front axle swap is to address all the deficiencies of the Dana30 setup which steering should be high on the list. If you want to run an inverted Y, keep the Dana30 and live with the compromises.

I agree. However, I WILL be keeping the D30 for now. I'm polishing it as well as possible (extensive trussing on both up/down and sideways axis. Alloys and Superjoints) because $ for 44 isn't in the cards for now.
I see what you mean about the flex limitations though. A big plus in the X-over steering is droop not being limited by the TRE.

Jeff 98XJ WI · May 12, 2005

Dingo509 said:
okay here's an idea diffently a band-aid but it worked for me, for a while till did a crossover. anyway, get a set of urethane body bushings for an early cj 55-74 i think usually under 20 bucks there like 13 in the box (trust me you will find uses for the others) take one and drill out the hole a little bigger then find a large fender washer that has a hole big enought that it will slide on the taper of the TRE and bottom out, the but the TRE through the washer then the bushing and tighten it back down. the bushing will let it flex if it needs to but will take alot of the slop out. just remember this is only a band-aid and the bushing will wear out. but hopefully by then you figure out how to fix it properly.

Dingo

Stock Waggy steering uses the exact same concept for bushings on the tie rod ends that Dingo is suggesting. It is made up of a washer type thing, a rubber bushing, and another washer type thing. I think all Waggy style steering systems should use that type of tie rod end bushing. Again, as the drag link angle increases, so does the tendency for the dead spot to appear due to rotation of the tie rod ends, but the tie rod end bushing used on Waggys will at least try to limit tie rod end rotation. Jeff

Jes · May 12, 2005

kid4lyf said:
I agree. However, I WILL be keeping the D30 for now. I'm polishing it as well as possible (extensive trussing on both up/down and sideways axis. Alloys and Superjoints) because $ for 44 isn't in the cards for now.
I see what you mean about the flex limitations though. A big plus in the X-over steering is droop not being limited by the TRE.

Sorry, I thought you were swapping out that front end.
If you really want to try out an inverted Y setup maybe do something like Goatman had when he had a D30. Have the tie rod connect to the bottom of the drag link and raise the connections at the knuckle...

There's always the option of getting a Tera knuckle and running a cross over setup but that adds more $$s to the turd.

ChuckD · May 12, 2005

Jes said:
Sorry, I thought you were swapping out that front end.
If you really want to try out an inverted Y setup maybe do something like Goatman had when he had a D30. Have the tie rod connect to the bottom of the drag link and raise the connections at the knuckle...

There's always the option of getting a Tera knuckle and running a cross over setup but that adds more $$s to the turd.

Jes, I copied Goatman's also and PM'd Kid with the details.

XJEEPER · May 12, 2005

I initially built an over the knuckle inverted T setup but immediately got DW with all new components in the front end.....and after chasing it around for nearly a month, I decided to go back to an OTK inverted Y style, using DOM and ES150 TRE's. I reamed out the taper on the top of the knuckles and chopped the tapered bung out of the stock XJ draglink, reamed it out larger and then welded it in to the DOM draglink.
It's worked well on my D30 for nearly 2 years, many trail runs, driven daily on the road and rock solid at 75mph with no dead spot.....ymmv.

drfargo · May 12, 2005

Jeff,

I remember those when I got the axle. I looked through my parts bin and found them, installed them on between the TRE and tie rod and presto! With the TRE clocked opposite from each other and the bushings, it is not rolling over anymore -- fixed.

Chuck,

I removed my heim joint and looked at making a mount, but as luck would have it moving the drag link up slightly interfers with the pass side mounts (shock mount and swaybar link) when turning.

Too bad I can't get those bushings new, you have to get the Waggy TRE's to get them - so I was told.

Inverted T steering dead spot fix??

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