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diff wine

john mitchell

NAXJA Forum User
Location
Kentucky
are after market gears noisier than stock?

I just upgraded my D35 to a C8.25 with trac-loc and 4:10 precision gears.

No wine when under load, but a little when coasting, and more at slower speeds and coasting,

also, when the axle was out I noticed it was harder to turn the pinion by hand than the stock axel, it takes about .5 -1 ft lbs to get it truning, but you could turn the old axle with your baby finger.

anyhow, the amount of noise is not bad, easily drowned out by A/T tires or the radio.
 
What brand of gears? Genu-whine?

Check the pattern on the gears and post a pic - there's plenty of folks around here that love to pick those apart
 
Hey, welcome to my world!

I've gone through 2 sets of gears, shafts and set-ups, and still have the same noise you describe.

I'll be getting a 44 as soon as funds are available.

Fergie
 
how new are the bearings? how new is the gearset? is it hard to turn the pinion by hand in either direction? or just one? how is the noise when going in reverse? do you have an SYE? how is the pinion angle? is there any oil leaks from the pinion seal? who setup the gears, shadetree or shop?
I can speculate a bad outer pinion bearing, or a loose pinion nut. a poorly setup ring and pinion, improper breakin proceedure. bad pinion angle causing a driveline vib on coast.
cmon, let me pick it apart...
 
Rawbrown said:
cmon, let me pick it apart...
He's one of those ones I tried to warn you about... :laugh3: The worst part is, when it comes to gears Ryan's one of the folks who really seems to know his stuff. Listen to his advice...
 
john mitchell said:
No wine when under load, but a little when coasting, and more at slower speeds and coasting,

also, when the axle was out I noticed it was harder to turn the pinion by hand than the stock axel, it takes about .5 -1 ft lbs to get it truning, but you could turn the old axle with your baby finger.

Ok sounds to me that the pinion preload may be a little too tight, especially the whine on coasting... And yes Genuine gears are noisy, did you get these from 4wheelparts???
 
ok here’s some more info.

These are national drive train eliminator series, the gear and new bearings have 4135 miles on them. It is hard to turn the pinion in either direction, The whole axle has been sitting around for about a year, I am going to run the axle A bit then I will pull the drive shaft and try to turn the pinion again.
I don not have a SYE, pinion angle is unchanged from the old axle and it was quiet as a dead pet. No oil leaks yet, but I only installed this axle 2 days ago.
A shop installed the gears,

More detail on noise

Wine at slow speeds under 5mph and foot off gas
No wine under acceleration
Little Wine when maintaining speed
Louder wine when part throttle but slowing down
Very little wine when coasting above 20 mph

Thanks for the reply’s

I have a feeling this will become a quest of mine
 
Oh Yeah,
is it a Cabernet or Pinot?
what is the vintage?
Whine not Wine...

Start with taking it over to the shop that setup the gears and getting there take on it. might be more than pinion preload being too tight. it could also be a poor gear setup. example, during a gear install... when I go to turn the ring gear into the pinion to check the pattern, I can tell by the feel if the pattern going to be good or not. I am able to notice the "smoothness" of the contact by how much effort Is needed to turn the ring gear into the pinion. and there is a feeling, a sensation you get on a decent pattern where you go, "I'm close".

Is there any backlash? just sitting on the ground. how much play is in the driveshaft/pinion? if you remove the driveshaft and grab the pinion, try rocking the pinion back and forth just a little bit. you don't want to turn the ring gear but rather you only want to move the pinion a few degrees t ofee the slack bewtween the ring and pinion. is there any?
checking the pattern yourself is not to dificult and it can answer alot of questions.
 
Rawbrown said:
Is there any backlash? just sitting on the ground. how much play is in the driveshaft/pinion? if you remove the driveshaft and grab the pinion, try rocking the pinion back and forth just a little bit. you don't want to turn the ring gear but rather you only want to move the pinion a few degrees to feel the slack between the ring and pinion. is there any?
checking the pattern yourself is not to dificult and it can answer alot of questions.

Sorry to interfere, but I´m interested to learn more about differentials, maybe some day will install one. But first I have to get the theory straigth. So how much backlash should be? And pattern checking with some paste, how should the pattern look?
 
ok jacked the rig up took the tires and drums off, disconnected the drive shaft gave the pinion a spin.
It felt easier to turn this time, probably because it has worked in a bit. whine is still there but a little quieter now.

when pulling/pushing on the pinion their is no play at all,

the pinion is damp with gear oil, but just a tiny bit, could have been there before, time will tell.

rotational play is very slight. Less than a minute on a clock, so perhaps 2 degrees if that.

no change in when you do and when you don't hear the whine. and absolutely no change in the whine when coasting at slow speeds.

I can't take this back to shop, I have moved, and they are 400 miles from here,

I'd like to do a pattern check, but how.

I know to slather the special pattern marking goo (?) on several teeth and spin it, but should I grab the pinion, or the ring to spin it? Does it matter?
 
John, Just read the part about the type of gears you got.
I put a set of eliminator series gears in my 8.25 2 years ago. (4.10's). They were very noisy. the eliminator series have very little taper at the top of the teeth, making gear mesh just plain noisy.
You can pop the cover and measure the backlash but if the pinion isnt rotating the width of your palm they are probably close.
Pull the cover, attach a dial indicator against the ring gear teeth, hold the yoke and move the ring gear. (take the drive shaft is off and the tires off) The measurement will be the backlash. it should be between 6 and 10 thousandths .006 - .010 of an inch. Tight equals heat, loose equals noise.

Checking the pattern is just as simple. Get some arts and crafts paint paste. should be about as thick as peanut butter. coat a couple of teeth about 180 degrees apart, spin the ring gear. Putting preassure on the pinion is a good idea. actually easier to spin the pinion while pressing on the ring gear to apply some rolling resistance. you;ll see what I mean when you spin it.
Intreptation of the pattern is a whole different issue. Hit the web. i use at least three different sources when measuring the pattern. FSM being one of them.

Good luck, but i bet it's just the cut of the gears.

Derik
 
hey derik

This is the axle you sold me like a year ago..remember the guy with the sleeping baby?

My only regret with this axle is not putting it in sooner. love the pep.

I just want to make sure I didn't damge anything while shipping and instlling.

BTW all the brake hardware was in that little box you gave me.
 
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