Lockers

[mdwatkins]

I have absolutely no clue when it comes to lockers...

Why are some fairly reasonable around 300 bucks and others outrageous at 600 +. Am I paying for strength or is it something else? Is this something I can put in? or is it strictly something I want to deligate to a mechanic?

I've got the Chrysler 8.25 rear end, and will soon be putting on 33's and regearing and thought this would be a good time to put a locker in:D

Thanks for the input

Matt

[Loose_Nuts_Enterprises]

It all depends on what type of locker you want. A detroit soft locker is a full carrier locker, which is one the stronger options. These are usually around $375 to $525 depending on which axle you have. ARB and OX Trax are selectable lockers which have a lot more mechanisms and cost more accordingly (More than a detroit) Lunchbox lockers, i.e. Lock Right, EZ locker, Quick Lockers, only replace the spider gears in your stock carrier, with a locking unit. These usually cost in the $200 to $300 price range.

Hope that helps some, Dan

[Loose_Nuts_Enterprises]

BTW, You can install the lunchbox lockers yourself, as you're not disturbing the gear set up. If you get a full carrier locker(detroit, ARB, etc) have a gear shop do the set up if you don't know how.

Dan

[mdwatkins]

Ok from the sounds of things I want to stay away from the lunch box locker as this is my daily driver and weekend wheeler? Will soft locker serve me well without any trouble down the line?

Matt

[trailrunner]

l have a LS FOR 8.25 IF YOUR INTERESTED.

[GI-John]

Not trying to be a prick, but you gotta do some heavy research on your own, and decide from there.
.
They call in-carrier lockers "lunch box lockers" because it takes about an hour or so to do, and it could literally fit in a lunchbox.

For a weekend warrior, with a limited budget, this set up is ideal.

I've been running an EZ Locker for 2 years now, and it has served me quite well.

Randy's ring and pinion has a few writeups that might help you decide.

John

[Angus]

I have had a No Slip in my 2000 w/8.25 rear since almost new. I now have 80,000 miles and have had no problems. I obviously drive this Jeep allot and love the locker unit. As long as you follow the direction to a T these work well. Oh, I do wheel fairly hard with only 31's but then again its all up to your right foot. The road driving is almost invisible exept for some clunking in tight parking lots. Snow driving just requires a soft foot around corners. I recomend these highly.
Angus

[mdwatkins]

Thanks Angus....that is exactly the information I'm looking for.

I plan on doing a boat load of research into this before making any sort of a decision. So it's alright to have said so John boy.

What I need is road experience...Things look and sound great on paper, but who knows just how things are going to react in the real world on my rig. It's the experience that you guys have had running the different set ups out there that I need to hear. Ultimately I'll be putting in ARB, but that's a long ways down the line when things become more of a trail ride than anything else. So until that happens I need some help with just how the other sets ups work on daily drivers...I need strength and reliability in what I put in now, but it has to be capable of taking road miles. I can always adjust the way I drive it if needs be.

So with that said, what are you guys running? how long have you been running it? what type of driving does it get? How many miles have you put on it. This is what I need to help me make an educated decision.

Thanks for the help guys.

Matt

[MudDawg]

I have had no problems with my no-slip...excellent unit.

[GI-John]

As I said before, I've been running an EZ Locker (in a D35c) for 2 years now without a problem. (20,000 miles, cross country trek hauling a car on a dolly, etc)

Install was a breeze, and I have done all sorts of wheeling with it from mud to rock and everything in between. Once you put one in, you'll wonder why you didn't do it sooner.

For daily driving, it is pretty invisible, but occasionally the rear end will engage.(violently)
This is particularly scary the first time it happens, 'cause you'll swear the rear end is about to fall out, but once you get used to it....no worries.


You may have to adjust your driving habits if you have a heavy foot. The rear will slide out on you if too much throttle is applied with slippery conditions.

HTH, and Good Luck

John

[Angus]

Like I sugested ealier, the "lunchbox lockers" work fine for dual purpose rigs. The no-slip like mine and it's cousin the lock-right have a good history on non-hardcore rigs. The only real instances I have heard of breakage are those with severe trail rigs. Of course there are people that don't read instructions or think full speed is the only way. After 80,000 dual purpose miles with this Jeep, the no-slip is the best dollar for dollar investment. If you can get a good deal with the lock-right dont hesitate, but they are somewhat more noisy in turns.

Angus

[hpi_jeep]

im gettin a no slip for the rear and a lockright for the front of mine this week. i'll tell you how it go's if your still interested.

[Eagle]

mdwatkins --

Let's back up a step and ask if you definitely even want/need a "locker." This isn't a put-down, because I don't know from your question if you are aware that not all traction devices are "lockers." Some people just lump anything that gets put into the axle under the term "locker," but they aren't all the same.

Since you're not looking for the ultimate locker right now, and you seem to stress that you'll be doing a lot of road driving, have you considered a limited slip instead of a locker? Limited slips are generally friendlier on pavement than even the No-Slip. As to strength -- all lunchbox lockers, including the No-Slip, use the OEM carrier, and so their strength is limited to that. Limited slips generally are complete units with their own carriers (there is debate as to whether the Detroit Gearless Locker -- which is a lunchbox locker -- should be classified as a locker or as a limited slip). The Trac-Lok, which is the limited slip offered by the factory but also available after-market, isn't a whole lot stronger than an OEM open diff, but you can move up to an Auburn and get a more aggressive LS with a stronger carrier.

I guess I'm not sure what's the highest priority here: cost, road manners, or strength?

[mdwatkins]

Thanks for the info Eagle.

Priorities are strenght, road manners and then cost...

Don't get me wrong here...when I place cost the end of the list that doesn't mean that I have the cash for ARB and the such. I deffinitely need something as I got skunked in a sandy section of a trail that had about a foot ledge to climb this morning....it was a sad day when I couldn't get to the end of the trail because one wheel decided it just wanted to spin and spin.

Thanks again for the input guys.

Hey, also what are the advantages to having something in both the front and the rear, just the rear or just the front?

Matt

[CharlesS]

How do you like the Banks header ? Do you notice a difference in the torque and at roughly what RPM do you notice it ?

When my Jeep was new it had a TracLoc, then I installed a TruTrac after 6 months; kept it that way until about 3 years ago when I installed a PowerTrax No-Slip in the TracLoc carrier and then 3 months ago I swapped out the TruTrac for a new style ARB. Amazing what you can do when the front tires have full traction.

[mdwatkins]

I've run a couple of other headers on my XJ and the Banks is night and day compared to them. I don't know the RPM range, but I do know that it has given me a decent power boost. The range that my auto shifts at is also improved, rather than struggling and shift prematurely it extends throughout the power band, shifting at a higher RPM.

Thanks for the input on your locker experience...

Matt

[Eagle]

Originally posted by mdwatkins
Priorities are strenght, road manners and then cost...

If the most important factor is strength, skip all the lunchbox lockers and buy a Detroit locker. It isn't all that much more than a No-Slip. Yes, it should be set up properly, but if you're not changing gear ratios the pinion doesn't get disturbed, and that's the critical setting. Just check your ring gear backlash before pulling the old carrier, and adjust the new one until you have the same setting.

[mdwatkins]

Next question...with overall strength being a concern am I going to run into possible problems down the line with a slightly weak 8.25 and a strong detroit locker?

I know some guys work a weak link into their build ups in order to save money and major damage down the line. Is this something I should be considering for now as I won't be swapping the axels for some time to come? If I were to go this route would a lunchbox be the best set up to save possible damage to the rest of the axle and its components?

Thanks for the great input guys

Matt

[Eagle]

If a lunchbox locker explodes, it'll scatter little bits of metal all over your differential and will very likely take out the ring and pinion with it. You'll be left with a housing and, if you're lucky, a pair of more or less intact axle shafts.

What part of the 8.25 is it that you think is so weak? Seems to me it would be better to leave the OEM axle shafts as your "fuse" to protect the differential itself. Just hit a junkyard and get a set of spare shafts to carry. It's easier to change an axle shaft on the trail than it is to install a new differential.

[mdwatkins]

That's the link I wasn't sure on Eagle...You can give me pretty much anything in or on my Jeep and I can take care of it, or at least give it one heck of a go for it's money. But when it comes to what and how the axles are put together it's no man's land for me...(guess I was just raised without ever having to do anything in that area in the garage). I was pretty sure that if anything takes a dive in the differential that it's not going to be pretty, what I wasn't sure of is if the axle and the diff were sealed from each other. Now that that has been cleared up, I can get on with making a better and more educated decision on what to do.

Thanks for the help

Matt

[Eagle]

Quicky tour -- the differential has a cast housing (that's what you see when you look under the back of your Jeep. The axle tubes are press-fitted into that.

Inside the differential housing, you have a pair of bearing caps that are somewhat similar to the main bearing caps in the engine. The carrier is the unit inside that holds the ring gear. The carrier has short legs on it where the bearings are pressed on.

An open diff has a set of spider gears inside the carrier to accomplish the differentiation. Two of the spider gears are splined, and the axle shafts enter into and engage the spider gears. In an 8.25 axle, the shafts have a grove machined into the inner ends, and the shafts are retained by c-clips inside the differential.

A lunchbox locker removes the spider gears and replaces them with some kind of proprietary contraption (specifics vary depending on make) to function as a locker. The carrier, however, remains, and this is why all lunchbox lockers are weaker than a Detroit. The Detroit is a complete unit that replaces the carrier, and thus it can be (and is) made stronger than the OEM carrier. However, because it replaces the stock carrier, you have to be sure the bearings and shims are set up to maintain the OEM backlash. The Detroit can use the OEM axle shafts, which could then function as your "fuse" if you want to think of it that way. I prefer to be a wimp and not break anything, but if I had a choice I'd rather break an axle shaft than blow up a differential.

[mdwatkins]

Alright...the decision has been made and I have no choice but to run with either an ARB or OX in the front 30 and since ARB is the only selectable available in the 8.25 rear, I guess that's where I'm heading.

After reading through a pile of articles and information I've decided that for the cost...I might as-well save an extra month or two and just do things once, rather than twice. So when it comes time to regear, in go the selectables

Thanks for all your help and info, it was greatly appreciated

Matt

[mikeyl]

quick note about the lunch box lockers. on my D44 the ring gear was too thick to slip the spider shaft out to install the quickloc. i had to remove the carrier completely to install it. and it was a big pain! my reason for the quicloc was that i will be re-gearing in about 1/2 year and i removed my d35 with the factory LS. eagle is correct the LS was a decent traction device when it's intended purpose wasn't overtaxed. been in lots of places with the LS. the d44 csame open diff and i wanted to install something temp to get me by for a short time. so be careful with "the lunch box locker is a breeze to install" talk!

[getarpicker]

I have a really bad vibration in the front end of my 98 classic. In reading the above I am seriously thinking of just replacing the front end with a limited slip mainly for the lock out option. I do 90% road driving. I have the front shaft out now just to get rid of the vibration - its already been re-balanced and had all new dana spicer u joints installed. Would anyone suggest which front diff. to go for?

[Eagle]

There aren't many choices in limited slip for the Dana 30. TruTrac is the best bet. Trac-Lok isn't available.

[Nay]

If you are still looking at this thread...I'd think seriously about replacing the 8.25 if you are going to put new gears and locker in it. It has a tendency towards serious gear whine with lower gear ratios. You can do the locker and alloy shafts and your 29 spline 8.25 will be plenty strong...but even then you still have the crappy drum brakes. Convert to disc brakes (a huge improvement for a '99 XJ that requires no other brake system modifications), as well as alloy shafts plus the locker and gears...and you've spent as much money as a custom built 44, and you are close to a high pinion 9" from Currie.

Think it through - ARB is a great choice for a daily driver...but once you are going with dual lockers and getting a lot more serious about wheeling, you'd ought to consider all of the mods your 8.25 will need, and whether you'd rather spend the money on a custom built axle.

Custom axles can be surprisingly cost effective...you get the labor savings of doing everything at once (gears/lockers/brakes/axles) and this make up for the premium of a custom designed axle that fits your application perfectly.

Nay

[basalt51]

Couldn't agreee more. After adding up the cost of everything to improve my 8.25 with alloys, arb, gears, and discs, the price difference compared with currie was about $600 for a HP 9" w/ arb, disc brakes, and 4.56 gears.