Underage Drinking

[rock rash]

I am writing my final paper on how media depicts underage drinking. I would like to get some statistics to run with it. This is to see how many of you drank before legal drinking age (I know it used to be 18 some places). Did not have to get wasted, but drank on ocassion. please answer honestly. Your name will not appear for your own privacy. Thanks!:wave:

[olivedrabcj7]

hell im still underage (20) and ive been drinkin since i was 16. lol.

[hoytinak]

These days it's gonna be hard to find too many people that don't drink till they're of age.

[copperhead]

Parents always allowed it, so it was never realy a big deal to me. I bet the uber nazi parental police would have a heart attack if that happened today.

[BrettM]

I did some drinking in high-school. I've been pretty good these last few years, drinking moderately with the permission and sometimes presence of my parents (weddings, etc).

BUT IN 15 MORE DAYS!! whooo hooo

http://www.twoguys.org/~gregh/images/beer-3.jpg

on an interesting side-note :D do a Google image search for "beer koozie" and check out the top result

[rock rash]

These days it's gonna be hard to find too many people that don't drink till they're of age.Thats what i was thinking I would find out. I guess so far I am the only one!:laugh3:

[0313]

on an interesting side-note :D do a Google image search for "beer koozie" and check out the top result

Hey thanks

[hoytinak]

on an interesting side-note :D do a Google image search for "beer koozie" and check out the top result
Here's what our excited users have to say:
"I don't know how I played without it"

"This is the hottest golf product I've seen in a long time"

"This thing is helping take strokes off my game"

"The most useful golf accessory I have ever seen, bar none"

"This product raises the bar for innovative new golf accessories"

"Its so simple, why didn't anybody think of it before"

Click Here to get one now!
That's pretty good......alcoholic golfers :wave:

[The Blu Yak]

AHHH yes, I drink all the time underage, but responsabily of course, only if I dont have to drive at all that night

[olivedrabcj7]

Thats what i was thinking I would find out. I guess so far I am the only one!:laugh3:
LOOOOOOO HOOOOOOOO ZERRRRRRRRRRRRRRR (holds fingers in the shape of an "L" on forehead)

[jeeppowermj]

[cookie monster voice on]mmmmmmmm alcohol [cookie monster voice off]

[Beej]

I think you're going to find a very low legal compliance level. Partly because of the demographic you are polling, and also partly because underage drinking is in many ways a rite of passage for modern youth. Working in high schools and with youth I see a great deal of kids posturing about their 'escapades' but also quite a few who have participated in drinking or drugs, even as young as 12 or 13. I would guess that those who are raised religiously will be less likely to have done it, parents being teetotalers will also decrease the likelihood. My parents drank quite frequently, but it was rare to see them drunk. They still enjoy wine with dinner a couple of times per week. Myself on the other hand, I first drank a beer when I was 10. First got tipsy when I was about 14. First got falling down drunk with projectile vomit when I was 16. I crawled the two blocks home from my buddy's house and went downstairs to interrupt my parents' movie and give them crap for not educating me on how horrible it is to be totally wasted. I had been loaded dozens of times by the time I became legal, which is 18 where I grew up. And by the time I was 19, I was a full-blown alcoholic, getting loaded about six times per week. By the time I was 23, I slowed right down, and quit by 24. Now I only drink on occasion, and prefer Hoegaarden, thank you very much. :D A nice bourbon on a single rock also hits the spot a couple of times per year.

[BrettM]

Here's what our excited users have to say:
"I don't know how I played without it"

"This is the hottest golf product I've seen in a long time"

"This thing is helping take strokes off my game"

"The most useful golf accessory I have ever seen, bar none"

"This product raises the bar for innovative new golf accessories"

"Its so simple, why didn't anybody think of it before"

Click Here to get one now!
That's pretty good......alcoholic golfers :wave:
you TOTALLY missed it. I said a Google IMAGE search. after you search, click Images at the top of the page.

[hoytinak]

you TOTALLY missed it. I said a Google IMAGE search. after you search, click Images at the top of the page.
Ok, got in now....sorry i've been drinkin tonight :laugh3:

[OT]

Does a water pipe count as underage drinking?

[lost1]

on an interesting side-note :D do a Google image search for "beer koozie" and check out the top result


Nice looking design...but how cold would it keep my beer?

to keep on topic, yes. Still 20...for 17 more days. I drink on rare occasions, and rarely to excess. Seriously, what fun is getting completely wasted, except to watch all the stupid stuff your buddies caught you doing on tape?

Beej is right though...its becoming a rare thing to come across someone underage who hasn't consumed alcohol.

[DDCxj]

Thats what i was thinking I would find out. I guess so far I am the only one!:laugh3:

I'll be your friend on this one. I'm 19 and never had a drink and never done any drugs, completely straightedge and happy about it.

All my buddies drink and they offer me one every now and then but they know the answer and they're cool with it. I just don't see the point of doing it when I don't have a reason too. Also, I try to be as law abiding as possible, not saying I'm perfect, but the majority of my friends have gotten caught in one way or another and turned out to be not so fun for them.

It's also fun to prove people wrong when they tell you that you'll be getting trashed as soon as you go to college.

Dean

[Beej]

Does a water pipe count as underage drinking? :puke: An idiot I used to live with took his beer bong apart one time and I drank a huge swig out of it thinking it was my beer. I spat as much out as I could, but I couldn't bring myself to barf it up. Two hours later I was so stoned, it was like I had eaten half an ounce of hash...

[hoytinak]

:puke: An idiot I used to live with took his beer bong apart one time and I drank a huge swig out of it thinking it was my beer. I spat as much out as I could, but I couldn't bring myself to barf it up. Two hours later I was so stoned, it was like I had eaten half an ounce of hash...
:laugh3: yeah right like you didn't know....just keep playing it off :kissyou:

[XJ_ranger]

tomorrow may change my vote...

[Atl XJ]

I drank my ass off from 17-21. I still drink but not nearly as much. I drank some before 17 but not regularly. Hell, I had two MIPs before 18. It was really bad luck, I only deserved one but at least they arent on my record. :D Honestly, I'm glad I got it out of my system early, I still drink but just socially and now I can be a productive member of society now that I got it out of my system early. I know I'm not the norm.

[Atl XJ]

Btw, my dad has always drank alot and all of his friends too so I think that, along with the friends I hung out with had a lot to do with my drinking at an early age.

Btw on a total side note, you ever notice how much rich people drink?

[bjoehandley]

nice beer Koozie, how much she cost?

I never got into drinking in highschool and have yet to drink at 28 years of age. I think some of what turned me off to it was losing 2 classmates to separate drunk driving wrecks and working for a drug store that sold it. After 4 years in that job, having to mop up spilled Corona and spending from 18-21 years of age working in the beer cooler, I can't stand the smell of beer, wine, whisky, etc.

Btw on a total side note, you ever notice how much rich people drink?

You've noticed that too?!

[ILLXJ]

Btw on a total side note, you ever notice how much rich people drink?
No, I don't know any rich people.

[Bent]

Here's what our excited users have to say:
"I don't know how I played without it"

"This is the hottest golf product I've seen in a long time"

"This thing is helping take strokes off my game"

"The most useful golf accessory I have ever seen, bar none"

"This product raises the bar for innovative new golf accessories"

"Its so simple, why didn't anybody think of it before"

Click Here to get one now!
That's pretty good......alcoholic golfers :wave:

...IMAGE SEARCH...




EDIT: What’s the legal age for hallucinogenics?

[rock rash]

I think some of what turned me off to it was losing 2 classmates to separate drunk driving wrecks

I myself have lost two friends from alcohol. One with alcohol poisoning and one was hit by a drunk driver. And I am only 18

[Fergie]

Never drank or did drugs until I reached college. Still havent done drugs, but for the first year of college, I was an alcoholic. Stopped drinking the summer between freshman and sophamore year, and didn't drink again until it was legal.

And maybe a remember wrong, or the terminology is different, but to us, a beer bong was just a funnel and a large piece of tube. Bottle bongs were always fun too, or Edward 40-hands....so many hazy memories.

[dmillion]

You know, the odd thing to me is that my daughter is 16 and we recently spent a couple of weeks in France. Over there it is perfectly legal for a 16 year-old to drink in a restaurant. We asked if she wanted to try some wine or beer with meals and she declined. Maybe it was the idea of drinking in front of mom and dad--and with their permission--that didn't appeal to her. I'm sure that if the situation had come up when I was 16 I would have jumped at the chance.

By the way, this was my first visit to France. Fabulous place to go, if you ever get the chance. And don't believe any of the crap you hear about the French being unfriendly and not liking Americans. We never ran into anyone who was anything but friendly and helpful while we were over there.

[rock rash]

Edward 40-hands....so many hazy memories.I was with this guy who had two 40s taped to his hands, got drunk, forgot they were taped and tried to smash them against the side walk. 26 stitches later he decided not to do that again
:D

[rock rash]

I case you need someone to relate to...
http://www.colorado4x4.org/vbb/showthread.php?t=33479

[xjcrawlr]

Originally Posted by BrettM
on an interesting side-note do a Google image search for "beer koozie" and check out the top result



I would swear to God that pick is taken from the Salt River, east of Phoenix. You want to talk about underage drinking......it takes 5 hours to float down the river and the MINIMUM amount of beer per person is a case, usually 2. Average weekend has 6000 to 8000 drunk, sunburned 14-25 yr olds. At least 1 a week drown in 3ft of water.


BTW....That style of Koozie is standard equipment for tubing the Salt!

[woody]

Does a water pipe count as underage drinking?

Depends...

Did you spit or swallow?

[Jeepsterboy101]

I'm 19, never had a sip of alcohol. I haven't done any drugs either. Might have a drink when I turn 21. Who knows. Besides, all my money goes into the Jeep. None left for alcohol.

[BOB]

drank since the fifth grade. seemed the thing to do where I grew up. 8-8-88, set it down, never picked it up again. sick and tired of being sick and tired. three years later...I put the cigarettes down. never touched them since. Best two choices I made in my life. That is my story.

...BOB

[Jeepsterboy101]

drank since the fifth grade. seemed the thing to do where I grew up. 8-8-88, set it down, never picked it up again. sick and tired of being sick and tired. three years later...I put the cigarettes down. never touched them since. Best two choices I made in my life. That is my story.

...BOB


Good job.

[Bent]

sick and tired of being sick and tired

...BOB

X 10

[rock rash]

drank since the fifth grade. seemed the thing to do where I grew up. 8-8-88, set it down, never picked it up again. sick and tired of being sick and tired. three years later...I put the cigarettes down. never touched them since. Best two choices I made in my life. That is my story.

...BOB:wave: I applaude you

[UNCC_99XJ]

I don't really drink much at all. Every now and then (maybe once or twice a year) i'll have a drink or 2...usually cause i'm at a wedding or something and parents don't really care, plus they drive home. but now that I drive just about everywhere, I haven't had a drink in a very long time.

As for smoking and other drugs. I stay as far away from them as I can. Mom was a smoker for so many years when I was younger, so 2nd hand smoke has done enough damage to me already....lol.

[5-90]

I was about ten - rainly day entertainment. A pitcher of daiquiris and a scrabble board, fun times!

5-90

[Captain Ron]

Do you live on planet earth?

--ron

[1989laredoxj]

drink heavily every few weekends, but as it was said before about it being hard to come by someone under the age who hasnt consumed booze, my brother is 15 years old and him and all his friends and the girls they hang out with all drink more than i do

[rock rash]

my brother is 15 years old and him and all his friends and the girls they hang out with all drink more than i doIm sorry but that is just sad.

[Beej]

It is sad, but as I pointed out before, a common reality that is becoming even more common. The other reality that I'm blown away by is these 'teen sex parties' where high school and even jr. high kids get together to have a massive orgy and then videotape the entire thing. What the hell? When I was that age the most we did was play spin the bottle and dare each other to kiss on the lips or spend two minutes in the closet trying not to look frigid or too easy... Durn kids these days...

[rock rash]

It is sad, but as I pointed out before, a common reality that is becoming even more common. The other reality that I'm blown away by is these 'teen sex parties' where high school and even jr. high kids get together to have a massive orgy and then videotape the entire thing. What the hell? When I was that age the most we did was play spin the bottle and dare each other to kiss on the lips or spend two minutes in the closet trying not to look frigid or too easy... Durn kids these days...Never heard of one of those parties here...or id be there! :D

[XJCasper]

I admit that I did drink before I was 21, BUT, not as much as the average persons I knew. I was more interested in going out showing off my truck. It was in my better interest to make sure she got home safely. I dring now, more than I used to. Why? Because I can. I see drinking all day. By the time I get home, to relieve my stresses? A beer sounds good, even though I hate the taste of beer.

[BOB]

I think under age (or any age) alcohol abuse is a sign of hopelessness. You look around, life sucks a little, so, you hit a bottle, or worse, drugs. Putting gasoline on the fire. It spirals from there. I keep my teen age daughter busy in HS with sports and clubs. by time she gets home, she has homework and she is too pooped to party. If she drops below a C average, no car. so far, so good. After I quit drinking, it was a struggle, but, every day got better. every year got better. My situation is not necessary for everyone of course. Life is way too short. If you do drink, drink responsibly, if you have a problem, there is a solution. my .02.

...BOB

[rock rash]

I think under age (or any age) alcohol abuse is a sign of hopelessness. You look around, life sucks a little, so, you hit a bottle, or worse, drugs. Putting gasoline on the fire. It spirals from there. I keep my teen age daughter busy in HS with sports and clubs. by time she gets home, she has homework and she is too pooped to party. If she drops below a C average, no car. so far, so good. After I quit drinking, it was a struggle, but, every day got better. every year got better. My situation is not necessary for everyone of course. Life is way too short. If you do drink, drink responsibly, if you have a problem, there is a solution. my .02.

...BOBMy parents are the same way. If i drop below a B average, no jeep, no wheeling. Thats what keeps my grade up. plus my dad said that if i end the year with an A average, they would forget about the $400 i owe them for gears. :D

[Puma297]

I dont drink

[rock rash]

I dont drink:yelclap:

[BrettM]

I'm only underage for 9 more days!!!

(that's all)

[rstarch345]

After I quit drinking, it was a struggle, but, every day got better. every year got better.

Good for you. My dad was an alcoholic and died an alcoholic way too young. I've heard all the excuses, all the replies and all the answers and alcoholic can give. Yes I drink. Never when driving or about to drive. Never when working on anything that requires skill and concentration and above all, in respectable moderation.

I took both my daughters to rehabs, AA meetings and toured the streets and showed them the winos. Drinking is NOT cool. Drinking is NOT being an adult. Drinking is a responsibility to respect your body.

Drinking is NOT a desease but a serious addiction. Deseases you have no control over acquiring. Addictions you have the mental ability (at least that what I thought that grey matter between the ears was intended for) to NOT drink.

Bless those that have seen the light and have pursued the path necessary for self awareness that leads to love of life and family.

Critisize if you will, but moderate or non drinkers don't waste their money or life.

[gearwhine]

I see no problem with any age drinking... but "underage" drinking is different. That's because there is a law making it "underage". So many countries don't have a minimum drinking age, and there are much less alcohol abuse problems than in america, that I know of. They just have strict laws that if you F up once, it screws you forever (such as drunk driving), not for just a half a year or so. That is a much better way to deal with it, no matter what age you are.

With it being illegal for kids to drink, they feel the need to do it in excess when they get the chance to. When do you see underage drinkers just sipping on a beer to chill out?.....in my life, rarely, it's always to get trashed. If they were able to drink legally, I don't beleive that problem ever would have occurred, or at least not in the excessive amount that it does now.

However, I'm not saying get rid of the drinking age requirement...it's too late now...if it's removed, everything will get even worse. There should've just been no age requirement from the beginning in my opinion.

I just turned 21 a few months ago, and I find myself drinking less....due to the fact that I usually am buying the beer now rather than mooching off other people...:)

_nicko_

[8Mud]

Alchoholic, haven´t been on a bender for 7 or 8 years, haven´t had a drink in 4 or 5. Wifes an alchoholic, three out of four of her sisters are alchoholics, her father is an alchoholic. My mother was an alchoholic.
I tell my kids that it seems there is a genetic tendancy, to become an alchoholic on both sides of the family tree.
You may be suseptable, you may not, but if you are, your probably gonna find out the hard way. If you start drinking young, it becomes a habit easier. And most anybody who is an alchoholic, will tell you, alchoholism is insidious, it comes on slowly and most people don´t even notice, until it´s to late and they wake up in the morning craving a drink and have the shakes.
Burried my mother at age 53, with a liver the size of a basketball and the mind of a three year old.
Young people rarley think ahead, they can´t even imagine being really ill in 10/20/30 years, from the damage they did to there organs at a young age.
Mainly the reason there is such a thing as underage drinking, because some very wise people, want the youngsters to be old enough to make wiser decissions, about abussing there bodies. If it was up to me, I´d make the drinking age 26, most people are grown up by that age.
Drinking like party drugs, is an individual thing, some people can, some people can´t and the only way to find out for sure, is to become dependant, sick or dead. Question is, why would any reasonable person want to know the answer to that question.

[98 Xj of Death]

26??? That seems a bit extreme, I do see where your coming from though.
I just dont see how I can be 18, enlist in the army, go over to Iraq and die for my country, and I cant even have a beer? I think thats a bit extreme.

[8Mud]

26??? That seems a bit extreme, I do see where your coming from though.
I just dont see how I can be 18, enlist in the army, go over to Iraq and die for my country, and I cant even have a beer? I think thats a bit extreme.
Drink alchohol free beer :)
When I was in the military, got drunk, got sick, bounced back in a few hours and ran five miles.
Worked construction, high rise, worked my tail off. Used to drink a pitcher of beer most every night, just for the calories, six months later, I was an alchoholic. Had such a high reved metabolism, I didn´t even notice, until I was hooked. Found I couldn´t hardly function, without a certain blood alchohol level.
Went cold trukey, got straight and didn´t have drink for four or five years. Then fell right back into the old ways again. Except the second time it took only weeks, not months.
Drinking is often a social thing, people drink because everybody else is doing it. Gets to be a habit, then a dependance. Why start, is a better question than why not.
When I was in Nam I didn´t drink or worse, was too darned affraid the fit was gonna hit the shan and I wasn´t gonna be ready or fit for a fight, when it really counted. Survival can be a motivator to stay straight. Long range survival, is a good reason not to temp the fates and start in the first place.
IMO

[bjoehandley]

I just dont see how I can be 18, enlist in the army, go over to Iraq and die for my country, and I cant even have a beer? I think thats a bit extreme.

Wasn't that used during Veitnam as a reason to lower drinking age for non enlisties?

When I was in Nam I didn´t drink or worse, was too darned affraid the fit was gonna hit the shan and I wasn´t gonna be ready or fit for a fight, when it really counted. Survival can be a motivator to stay straight. Long range survival, is a good reason not to temp the fates and start in the first place.

That's how I feel about driving ingeneral, I want to be as alert as possible incase of somebody elses stupidity, let alone my own.

Drinking is often a social thing, people drink because everybody else is doing it. Gets to be a habit, then a dependance. Why start, is a better question than why not.

Luckily I never fell for that, and in most situations for non intoxicant related situations.

[xDUMPTRUCKx]

im underage, never drank. never have never will. never did any drugs, hell i stay away from medications, with the exception of antibiotics. I grew up with alchoholic parents, went to work with my mom who was a bartender, and watched every sibling i had fall to drugs, one to speed (meth), one to crack, two to everything that could give them a buzz. I figure ill end up being the only good thing coming out of my family, the only one thats not competely screwed up for life.

i hung out with stoners in high school, oddly never participated when it was time to get high in between classes, my best friends in my neighborhood growing up are still on all sorts of drugs, and still going nowhere in life. for some reason ive surrounded myslef with drug addicts and drunks.
at age 16 i saw an old friend of mine at a wal mart, and he used to be one of the stoner friends i had, and he looked different, he looked happy. he said that he started hanging out with straight edge kids from the town adjacent to us and its changed his life. a group of kids who swear off all forms of drugs and some even swear off promiscous sex, meat, or even caffinee. i knew that that was the group for me.

My convictions about drugs and booze are stronger than ever. Mabey its because ive watched people loose thier lives to a "high." I dont even like the way prescription drugs are so common today, if you have a problem we have a pill to fix it. If you think im any less of a person because i dont drink, whatever man to each his own, or say how do you know youve never tried?, why even play around its not going to beifit me, its going to cost me money, health, and who knows whatelse. i just dont see the point of even wasting my time with the things that kill millions and millions of americans each year.

i believe underage drinking is part of the downfall of americas youth, i really have no faith in the vast majority of people under 25. it cant help you in anyway, shape or form so why do it? why waste your life away by posioning your body and killing your brain? If anyone has any questions for me email me or aim xyourfuneralx@aol.com

[rstarch345]

im underage, never drank. never have never will. never did any drugs, hell i stay away from medications, with the exception of antibiotics. I grew up with alchoholic parents, went to work with my mom who was a bartender, and watched every sibling i had fall to drugs, one to speed (meth), one to crack, two to everything that could give them a buzz. I figure ill end up being the only good thing coming out of my family, the only one thats not competely screwed up for life.

i hung out with stoners in high school, oddly never participated when it was time to get high in between classes, my best friends in my neighborhood growing up are still on all sorts of drugs, and still going nowhere in life. for some reason ive surrounded myslef with drug addicts and drunks.
at age 16 i saw an old friend of mine at a wal mart, and he used to be one of the stoner friends i had, and he looked different, he looked happy. he said that he started hanging out with straight edge kids from the town adjacent to us and its changed his life. a group of kids who swear off all forms of drugs and some even swear off promiscous sex, meat, or even caffinee. i knew that that was the group for me.

My convictions about drugs and booze are stronger than ever. Mabey its because ive watched people loose thier lives to a "high." I dont even like the way prescription drugs are so common today, if you have a problem we have a pill to fix it. If you think im any less of a person because i dont drink, whatever man to each his own, or say how do you know youve never tried?, why even play around its not going to beifit me, its going to cost me money, health, and who knows whatelse. i just dont see the point of even wasting my time with the things that kill millions and millions of americans each year.

i believe underage drinking is part of the downfall of americas youth, i really have no faith in the vast majority of people under 25. it cant help you in anyway, shape or form so why do it? why waste your life away by posioning your body and killing your brain? If anyone has any questions for me email me or aim xyourfuneralx@aol.com
Hoorah! I like your attitude.

[8Mud]

im underage, never drank. never have never will. never did any drugs, hell i stay away from medications, with the exception of antibiotics. I grew up with alchoholic parents, went to work with my mom who was a bartender, and watched every sibling i had fall to drugs, one to speed (meth), one to crack, two to everything that could give them a buzz. I figure ill end up being the only good thing coming out of my family, the only one thats not competely screwed up for life.

i hung out with stoners in high school, oddly never participated when it was time to get high in between classes, my best friends in my neighborhood growing up are still on all sorts of drugs, and still going nowhere in life. for some reason ive surrounded myslef with drug addicts and drunks.
at age 16 i saw an old friend of mine at a wal mart, and he used to be one of the stoner friends i had, and he looked different, he looked happy. he said that he started hanging out with straight edge kids from the town adjacent to us and its changed his life. a group of kids who swear off all forms of drugs and some even swear off promiscous sex, meat, or even caffinee. i knew that that was the group for me.

My convictions about drugs and booze are stronger than ever. Mabey its because ive watched people loose thier lives to a "high." I dont even like the way prescription drugs are so common today, if you have a problem we have a pill to fix it. If you think im any less of a person because i dont drink, whatever man to each his own, or say how do you know youve never tried?, why even play around its not going to beifit me, its going to cost me money, health, and who knows whatelse. i just dont see the point of even wasting my time with the things that kill millions and millions of americans each year.

i believe underage drinking is part of the downfall of americas youth, i really have no faith in the vast majority of people under 25. it cant help you in anyway, shape or form so why do it? why waste your life away by posioning your body and killing your brain? If anyone has any questions for me email me or aim xyourfuneralx@aol.com

:yelclap: When I was younger, I was much more nieve and stupid.
Thank God, some of the youngsters learned the easy way (from good sense and other peoples mistakes) and not the hard way. At least I finaly wised up and learned to say no, before it was way to late.

[gearwhine]

im underage, never drank. never have never will. never did any drugs, hell i stay away from medications, with the exception of antibiotics. I grew up with alchoholic parents, went to work with my mom who was a bartender, and watched every sibling i had fall to drugs, one to speed (meth), one to crack, two to everything that could give them a buzz. I figure ill end up being the only good thing coming out of my family, the only one thats not competely screwed up for life.

i hung out with stoners in high school, oddly never participated when it was time to get high in between classes, my best friends in my neighborhood growing up are still on all sorts of drugs, and still going nowhere in life. for some reason ive surrounded myslef with drug addicts and drunks.
at age 16 i saw an old friend of mine at a wal mart, and he used to be one of the stoner friends i had, and he looked different, he looked happy. he said that he started hanging out with straight edge kids from the town adjacent to us and its changed his life. a group of kids who swear off all forms of drugs and some even swear off promiscous sex, meat, or even caffinee. i knew that that was the group for me.

My convictions about drugs and booze are stronger than ever. Mabey its because ive watched people loose thier lives to a "high." I dont even like the way prescription drugs are so common today, if you have a problem we have a pill to fix it. If you think im any less of a person because i dont drink, whatever man to each his own, or say how do you know youve never tried?, why even play around its not going to beifit me, its going to cost me money, health, and who knows whatelse. i just dont see the point of even wasting my time with the things that kill millions and millions of americans each year.

i believe underage drinking is part of the downfall of americas youth, i really have no faith in the vast majority of people under 25. it cant help you in anyway, shape or form so why do it? why waste your life away by posioning your body and killing your brain? If anyone has any questions for me email me or aim xyourfuneralx@aol.com


I followed the straight edge lifestyle for a while, up until sophomore year of college. I can't say I ever was straight edge though, I know how the saying goes. "if you aren't now, you never were" or something along those lines.

However, I started drinking, and it really did make me happier. Mainly because I actually made friends at school. I was one of those hardcore kids that hated everyone that drank too. I really can say drinking changed my life for the better as I was socially awkward before, and from drinking I became less awkward, and that less awkwardness travelled to my normal life. I just make it a point to moderate my drinking. All it takes is being smart about it, which unfortunately many people do not do. _nicko_

[xDUMPTRUCKx]

I followed the straight edge lifestyle for a while, up until sophomore year of college. I can't say I ever was straight edge though, I know how the saying goes. "if you aren't now, you never were" or something along those lines.

However, I started drinking, and it really did make me happier. Mainly because I actually made friends at school. I was one of those hardcore kids that hated everyone that drank too. I really can say drinking changed my life for the better as I was socially awkward before, and from drinking I became less awkward, and that less awkwardness travelled to my normal life. I just make it a point to moderate my drinking. All it takes is being smart about it, which unfortunately many people do not do. _nicko_

i dont know man, that to me just shows me how sad young americans are. in no way do i intend to offend you, but its pretty sad when in order for a kid to "fit in" and be accepted that he has to drink, i have heard many a people use your same situation though about how drinking makes them more sociable.

[drifting_home]

not only did I not drink before 21, but I am 24 now and still never had so much as a drop, and ya know, I don't feel the lack

[kubtastic]

The total amount of alchohol I drank underage I now drink about every weekend.

[Jeepsterboy101]

i dont know man, that to me just shows me how sad young americans are. in no way do i intend to offend you, but its pretty sad when in order for a kid to "fit in" and be accepted that he has to drink, i have heard many a people use your same situation though about how drinking makes them more sociable.

That's how a couple of my friends started drinking. And I agree with you, its pretty sad and lame IMO. What can ya do though....

[BOB]

so many interesting comments. IMO alcohol is there to be abused. we all know it. Few people can handle drinking without it affecting there life somehow. When I quit drinking, at age 28, I was in limbo. I only had friends who drank. I could not hang with them, without being tempted to drink. Do you think for a minute they would stop you from drinking. I don't think so. I didn't know any friends who did not drink. It was a hell of a transition. Life has been a lot less complicated. I think it is good for people to talk about these issues. there is not a right answer. we all just do the best we can, with the knowledge we have, on any given day.

...BOB

[gearwhine]

You can think what you want, I'm not offended by it at all. I had the feeling I was better than people that drank before because I didn't drink. I know exactly where you're coming. I know I didn't admit it then, but now I do admit I thought I was of a higher level than others. I now know I was wrong and stupid.

I can say I already "fit in" before I drank, but I, myself, felt much more comfortable, and that's what I liked. I have never ever had a problem in my life due to drinking. I have fun with my life wether I'm drinking or not, do very well at a top school, and not going to say I wish I didn't drink.

Maybe in a few years I won't drink, maybe I will, "Cause after college, drinking is called alcoholism." I won't lie, I have fun with it, I feel I control myself very well with it, and am not embarassed about it at all.

I love how the only people posting now are people that don't drink, and making it out to be a huge evil in the world. Where are all you drunks from the NAXJA events???


Stick to being straight edge though. Every striaght edge person I know gave it up, some early, some as late as 28.

_nicko_

[xDUMPTRUCKx]

I love how the only people posting now are people that don't drink, and making it out to be a huge evil in the world. Where are all you drunks from the NAXJA events???


Stick to being straight edge though. Every striaght edge person I know gave it up, some early, some as late as 28.

_nicko_


drinkings good for you in your eyes, thats cool. hey if its a positive thing to you thats all that matters, to me its not a positve thing for ME, and I would only encourage others to do the same as I do. I won't disagree with you as far as me feeling better than other people who drink, I definetly come off that way because all ive known and come to see is drinking as a negative thing, and in my eyes no man is better than another in most cases, everyone has the oppurtunity to do the same and be the same as everyone else.
As far as being straight edge, i dont see it fading from me anytime soon, ive gone through some of the most agonizing times lately that would turn anyone to drink/drugs/etc but my hearts still the same.

[xDUMPTRUCKx]

there is not a right answer. we all just do the best we can, with the knowledge we have, on any given day.

...BOB

well said bob, agreed.

[Sarge]

I started drinking while underage. In fact first time I ever got carded was on the birthday I became legal. Alcohol is NOT evil, it's just a substance. The evil is in the person who shows a lack of control. I've been to the point of not being able to function without it but looked at myself and didn't like it. Took two years off and now drink again but never to just get wasted.

As for changing the drinking age to 26, that's not going to help. It merely makes it more of an incentive to figure out how to drink early. Look to Europe where there aren't any social stigma like ours here. Kids are given a drink at meals from an early age. The alcoholism rate is much lower. When are Americans going to learn that to make something illegal raises the desire to have or do it?

*grin* The other thing about stopping for a couple of years? Now I only drink good stuff. Single barrel or small batch bourbons mostly. Altho some _good_ tequila (NOT Cuervo) is always appreciated as well.

Sarge

[XJ Dreamin']

My Dad had a few Falstaffs every night and pretty much all day Saturday and Sunday: not that I ever saw him in a condition that I ever recognized as "drunk." Even if I were curious about alchohol, there was absolutely no way that I was going to try to sneak any of his beer. Our house was out in the middle of a corn field and the nearest store was 30 minutes away and the owner had known me since my birth. There were no buddies down the street to party with and no neighborhood gang - there was no neighborhood. By the time I started driving I simply could never figure out how to get away with drinking and my folks not finding out. By the time I was 16 or 17 my Dad started telling stories of him getting drunk on gin, but there wasn't any gin around and I never saw him drink anything but Falstaff, or "fall-flat" as he used to call it.

Dispite the amount that my Dad consumed all of those years, he quite the day he retired. I didn't even know he'd quit. I was in college by then, home for a visit, when I commented to my Mom about there being no beer in the fridge. I wasn't looking for beer for myself. I doubt that even today I would drink in front of my Mom. It was just such a strange thing to open the fridge and not see beer in there, but she said he had not bought any beer since the day he retired. So much for the stresses of the modern business world.

One thing that has stuck with me to this day. Dad was (still is) a private pilot. He was co-owner, with four other pilots, of a North American Navion. One day when I was home from college he says he has to go out to the airport and check on a hydraulic leak repair. We went out there and the repair checked out ok so he says do I want to go flying for a couple of hours. I said cool and we were starting the pre-flight when he says no he can't go flying because he'd had a beer that morning. That was probably 8 hours since the one beer but he would not go up if he had had any beer in the previous 24 hours.

So, what about me? I got to college and started looking for something to get drunk on. Why? Who knows. It was college. Got drunk first time on dorm party coolers. They had atomic collins and Guiana punch that night. I did the atomic collins - everclear and lemonade concentrate (the Guiana punch was everclear and grape juice concentrate). After that, at department parties I'd bring a pint of gin or work out of the hosts' liquor cabinet. I'd clean up their dregs: if they had a finger or two of scotch left in a bottle - dump it over rocks. Scotch, (good) gin, rum, burbon, but never vodka and never anything fruit flavored. I didn't like beer at the time but later discovered that I'd been trying to drink the wrong kind of beer.

Finally turned legal and my 21st birthday celebration put me right off of whiskey. Closest I can figure is at least 30 shots from 9pm to 1am. I have no recollection of how we got home (my buddy's girlfriend had taken our keys so we had walked to the bars and must have walked home, but the memory simply does not exist). About 3:30am I started throwing up. I threw up every 30 to 60 minutes for 21 hours straight. After the first dry heave I started drinking water so there would be something to throw up.

Last drunk was in Elko, NV in 1989. Sat down at a $2 blackjack table and started drinking free gin. I sat post, holding on 12 and drinking gin. I broke even on the night (plus the free gin) when I threw down my hole card: "21," I says. "That's 22, sir," says the dealer. "Well," says I, "I guess I'd better leave, then." I gave him a tip and started walking the thirty blocks back to where I was staying. In that 30 blocks I got propositioned 10 times. Those chicks could spot a drunk comin' a mile away! Made home with all of my cash though.

Since college there just haven't been the opportunities to drink (except for that casino in Elko). I never drank in my dorm room or apartment and I've got beer in the fridge today that is left over from a picnic 6 months ago. I just don't drink away from a party, and then I've never gotten drunk where I've had to drive home - only where I could crash or walk home. Not to be righteous: that's just that parental conditioning kicking in.

Alcohol is NOT evil, it's just a substance. The evil is in the person who shows a lack of control.

Setting "evil" aside: alcohol is an addictive substance, as is nicotine and a slew of others, some controlled and some legal. I have drunk alot but outside specific social settings I feel no urge to drink. OTOH..I started smoking at about 12 by stealing my Grandfathers cigar butts and fear of being caught had no impact. If I had a pack of cigarettes I was going to smoke until I ran out. I didn't quit until I was 40 and that took divine intervention. My point? Some of us can be addicted by a chemical process that has nothing to do with evil. Some drink, or smoke, for purely social or personal reasons. For some, self control is not possible. I didn't quit smoking on my own. I had help: help that continues to protect me to this day. I am glad that I was not predisposed to alcoholism. I drank for social reasons and when I left that particular social environment I quit. For some it's not that easy.

Oh, yeah - my vote: yes

[Citat3962]

Stick to being straight edge though. Every striaght edge person I know gave it up, some early, some as late as 28.

_nicko_

Yup... In the Local Punk scene in the late 90's I met alot of self important SXEs with the attitude that they had evolved or something...

of the 3 I was close with two are now heavy alchoholics (1 Married and other a car accident) and the other plain disappeared.. I on the other hand have drank regularly along with other recreational use since BEFORE high school and I hold a good paying job and am doing quite well for myself...

It's all down to how well you handle yourself when inhebriated.. Some people flip the hell out after a year or two of hard drinking..... some people trip acid and drink like a fish off and on while smoking weed everyday for the last 11 years and manage to hold good jobs and be none the worse... Shit, better off than anyone from my group of friends finacially and oppertunity wise..

Not many people fly the XX's with pride anymore.. and sad to say it the only ones you meet anymore are the ones with a huge chip on their shoulder...

Some of my favorite guys to attack the pit with were big stinky SXE punks...

that scene is dead now so it's more of an ideal thing that a clique...

BTW Minor Threat SUCKS!!! :gag: lol

[xDUMPTRUCKx]

Yup... In the Local Punk scene in the late 90's I met alot of self important SXEs with the attitude that they had evolved or something...

Not many people fly the XX's with pride anymore.. and sad to say it the only ones you meet anymore are the ones with a huge chip on their shoulder...

Some of my favorite guys to attack the pit with were big stinky SXE punks...

that scene is dead now so it's more of an ideal thing that a clique...

BTW Minor Threat SUCKS!!! :gag: lol


now its all about the straight edge hardcore scene, and theres many of us. Sucks but alot of kids ruin it for everyone else, "mililtant" straight edge kids suck, they stick out the most so everyone sees them.

Heck there was a whole 20/20 episode about militant salt lake city kids. and ya alot of straight edge kids will come off with a holier than thou sort attitude, and that sucks, and if thats me well i apologize.

But for the most part some of the best kids youll ever meet are straight edge kids, come to redlands california, about an hour outside of L.A, these kids are amazing ages 18-32 so its not just a bunch of youngins, but ya i think if there was a 20/20 episode about us guys, people would have different things to say about straight edge kids.

oh ya and i never got into minor threat, and personally i thought that straight edge song sucked.

[biscuitboy87]

I think you're going to find a very low legal compliance level. Partly because of the demographic you are polling, and also partly because underage drinking is in many ways a rite of passage for modern youth. Working in high schools and with youth I see a great deal of kids posturing about their 'escapades' but also quite a few who have participated in drinking or drugs, even as young as 12 or 13. I would guess that those who are raised religiously will be less likely to have done it, parents being teetotalers will also decrease the likelihood. My parents drank quite frequently, but it was rare to see them drunk. They still enjoy wine with dinner a couple of times per week. Myself on the other hand, I first drank a beer when I was 10. First got tipsy when I was about 14. First got falling down drunk with projectile vomit when I was 16. I crawled the two blocks home from my buddy's house and went downstairs to interrupt my parents' movie and give them crap for not educating me on how horrible it is to be totally wasted. I had been loaded dozens of times by the time I became legal, which is 18 where I grew up. And by the time I was 19, I was a full-blown alcoholic, getting loaded about six times per week. By the time I was 23, I slowed right down, and quit by 24. Now I only drink on occasion, and prefer Hoegaarden, thank you very much. :D A nice bourbon on a single rock also hits the spot a couple of times per year.

ditto.

[Zebaru]

When are Americans going to learn that to make something illegal raises the desire to have or do it?Sarge

I know I am not the only one who doesn't break laws simply because I would be breaking the law if I did. Of course not in all cases, but I know for a fact that there are several places I stop only because there is a stop sign, and go 25 mph only because that is the speed limit. Honestly, how many times have any of us been at a red light, and were the only one at the intersection (or at least no cross traffic), and waited for the green? If the aswer is more than zero, ask yourself this: "What kept me from going through?" (Hint: it probably has something to do with the law...)

Simple examples I know, but the general idea is that it is about more than whether something is illegal or not. It is something about our society, regardless of laws, that drives us to do certain things. I have no idea what it is, but I don't subscribe to the "legalize it and our problems go away"
school of thought...

On a somewhat related note, I also beleive that, to some degree, it isn't just about illegal, it is about expected penalty vs reward. In those areas that install red light cameras, the number of red light infractions drops. The expectation of a fine has lowered people's desire to break the law - but the law didn't change... and the 'benefit' from running the light didn't go down.

Travis

[fugoffclothing]

if you dont want to drink, dont do it, if you want to drink, then hell have a beer..............thats all it should be, no preachin no bitchin, either your into it or not. I drink and have straight edge friends, they dont bother me sayin oh you shouldn't drink , and i dont bother them and say come on man have a beer, everything is cool....................i guess i'm just rambling on, ok i'm done.

[gearwhine]

if you dont want to drink, dont do it, if you want to drink, then hell have a beer..............thats all it should be, no preachin no bitchin, either your into it or not. I drink and have straight edge friends, they dont bother me sayin oh you shouldn't drink , and i dont bother them and say come on man have a beer, everything is cool....................i guess i'm just rambling on, ok i'm done.


It's definitely something to talk about. Everything should be talked about. If you don't want to talk about it, then don't...same deal you're saying about drinking, do it or don't, whatever.

Drinking is definitely a major topic of discussion, and is a problem for millions of people, non dependent on age. So don't bitch about people btiching about it.

_nicko_

[biscuitboy87]

moderation is the key. education is the lock. if one knows the drawbacks, the benefits, and possible eventual outcome from being well informed the decision is easy.
parents are the gate keepers, and if the parents aren't keeping the gate then the opportunity is there.
when i was in jr high we "tapped shoulder" and there were adults who would buy up for us. i had no idea that alcohol drowned the limbic part of the brain (which is responsible for breathing among other things).
the legal age limit is in place because not all parents are...well...parents. the fact is if you drink before the age of 21 you are doing irreversable damamge to your brain. now will one drink do the damage? not noticably. will 2 drinks? probably not but damage is being done. if you have a predisposition to addiction, then the odds are you will get hooked. alcohol will start to invade you entire system. if your intake is alot (who knows how much really because everybody is different) then the alcohol starts to replace water in your blood cells. since we are designed to be mostly water this replacement seriously frigs up your body. eventually if you are a big enough alcoholic quitting is not an option and if you try to quit you will die. alcohol is addictive. if you can party with it once a year you're probably okay. if you drink every day you're heading down a road that may kill you. drinking while pregnant is bad...i'm sure you heard that before right? its because of something called fetal acohol syndrome. once you've seen an FAS kid you've seen em all. so think about what the alcohol did to that fetus. now thing about what its doing to you.
i'm not preaching here becuase what i'm saying is fact.
now if its just a case of legal vs. illegal. one drink is fine...just like one joint is fine. seriously, people die from alcohol poisoning often...but nobody has ever died from smoking too much weed. so if legality is the case then drinking underage should be a very serious crime in comparison.
society says its okay to drink. most people do. and historically getting drunk as a teen has been a rite of passage...a sign on growing up. what hasn't caught up with the trend today is the education and sitting down with primary age children and letting them know the science instead of the history. scientifically a humans brain isnt done "growing" until aruond 21. any substance effecting the brain will change its chemistry, and usually in a negative way... whether its LSD, weed, alcohol, and even sugar.

in closing, education is one of the best ways to curb underage brain damage...i mean underage drinking. lol.

[fugoffclothing]

holy shit, after reading all that i need a beer :o..........anyone else............cheers............

[Roll-over]

stole my first beer from the fridge at 10... didn't have another 'til I was 17. I went crazy for a year or two when i turned legal. Now I have one or two drinks a week.

[8Mud]

Some people can and some people can´t and the only way to know for sure, is to make regular drinking a habit and then find out one day your dependant. Russian roulette.
I admire the straight kids, takes character to not go with the peer pressures. About a million things you can do with your free time and drinking is just one of them. One of those things it takes absolutly no talent to accomplish.
Most places the legal driving age is 16, the voting age is 18, you can join the Armed forces and carry a loaded weapon, go to war and are asked to make life and death decissions, before your deemed competant to decide if you want to drink. Many states the legal age to drink is 21, does this tell you anything. Drinking is (for many people) considered, by people wiser than me, more risky than many of the above.
I´m not trying to preach holier than thou, just preaching, if your gonna drink, have your eyes wide open. If you even think you are one of the many, that become rapidly dependant, get smart and leave it alone.
I try and not be a fanatic about anything (with a few exceptions), but strive to use what good judgement, I´ve been blessed with and minimize self destructive behavior.
A few rules for my kids, that are non negotiable, guaranteed ass beating (I men a serious thumping). Drivng while or with a drunk. Drugs of any flavor. Unprotected sex and messing with my guns. And a couple of others when they were young, hanging out of an upstairs window, playing with fire and going into the street without looking first. Most everything else is negotiable. The kids, my kids (young adults now) hang out with, get the same speech and are advised, I´ll try my darndest to beat there asses also if they ignore my rules.
I figure if they are gonna seriously screw up, it´s gonna be something new and original. Not the same dumb assed mistakes I made and many of the other youngsters made, when I was growing up.

[xDUMPTRUCKx]

if you dont want to drink, dont do it, if you want to drink, then hell have a beer..............thats all it should be, no preachin no bitchin, either your into it or not. I drink and have straight edge friends, they dont bother me sayin oh you shouldn't drink , and i dont bother them and say come on man have a beer, everything is cool....................i guess i'm just rambling on, ok i'm done.



if you were my friend and i sincerely cared for you, i would make an attmept to persuade you not to drink. i believe that deep down everyone knows drinkig is wrong. they can feel it.
its harmful to your body, depresses you, and costs money. why waste your time?

but if your stuck on drinking, im not going to make an ass out of my self preachin to the choir.

[Kejtar]

if you were my friend and i sincerely cared for you, i would make an attmept to persuade you not to drink. i believe that deep down everyone knows drinkig is wrong. they can feel it.
its harmful to your body, depresses you, and costs money. why waste your time?

but if your stuck on drinking, im not going to make an ass out of my self preachin to the choir.
How do you know it's harmful to your body? What is your statement based on? Wine is good for your heart, certain beers are good for your digestive system. Yes you can overdo those and get yourself in trouble, but you can also overdo with aspirin, tylenol, coffee, you name it.

[dmillion]

i believe that deep down everyone knows drinkig is wrong. they can feel it. its harmful to your body, depresses you, and costs money.

WRONG!!!! There is a substantial body of evidence that shows that moderate drinking is quite good for you. It is over-doing it that is harmful to your body. One 12 oz. glass of beer, or 6 oz. glass of wine, each night not only does not HARM your body, it actually HELPS it! Two glasses are probably a neutral effect. More than that and you're getting into the harmful region.

[xDUMPTRUCKx]

How do you know it's harmful to your body?


ever notice how fast your body tries to get rid of alcohol? watch a person drinking run to the bathroom to piss like ten times in a span of a couple of hours. your bodys immediate reation to it is, hey poisons here. all that bullisht about how healthy a glass or two is drives me nuts. As alcohol enters your blood stream it thins your blood. really nice if you get into a horrible car accident, no coagulation. thats how it can be used to help your heart. As it enters your stomach it acts like a digestive fluid by breaking down food, it doesnt stop in your liver or kidneys either breaking them down. luckily the liver can regrow itself to a point.

im sure you can always find a good thing in a bad substance, african tribes say that smoking pot gives them better eyesite at night, im sure it can eeven be proven they have better eyesite at night, but thats a high price to pay for dead brain cells and lung cancer, erictile dysfunction, hairy tounge, and the munchies amung other wonderfull side affects.

[Kejtar]

watch a person drinking run to the bathroom to piss like ten times in a span of a couple of hours.
That's called cleaning your kidneys out!
all that bullisht about how healthy a glass or two is drives me nuts.
Again, your expertise in that field is????
As alcohol enters your blood stream it thins your blood. really nice if you get into a horrible car accident, no coagulation. thats how it can be used to help your heart. As it enters your stomach it acts like a digestive fluid by breaking down food, it doesnt stop in your liver or kidneys either breaking them down. luckily the liver can regrow itself to a point.
How much of a consumption are you talking about? Beer is good for your digestive system. I don't remember the what and hows but it helps (not all kinds, I think dark ones were specificaly mentioned). Also there is a reason why certain wines are drank with certain meals: they balance some of the items in the food to make them easier on the stomach (certain wine with fish, certain with meat and so on).

thats a high price to pay for dead brain cells and lung cancer, erictile dysfunction, hairy tounge, and the munchies amung other wonderfull side affects.
Are you drinking moonshine? paint thinner or what?

[xDUMPTRUCKx]

That's called cleaning your kidneys out!

actually that is called straining your kidneys, making them work hard is not a good thing as they tend to wear out with age.

Again, your expertise in that field is?????

i make no claims to expertise, i am merley a spectator, but if your an expert please by all means state your qualifacations?


Also there is a reason why certain wines are drank with certain meals: they balance some of the items in the food to make them easier on the stomach (certain wine with fish, certain with meat and so on).

actually certain wine is reccomended for certain food because it accents the taste of the said food. a different kind of fermented grape isnt going to break down food different than another kind of grape.


Are you drinking moonshine? paint thinner or what?

i was refering to the reefer that the african tribes were smoking.

[Kejtar]

Another thing worth of mentioning is that quite a few substances are good for you in small amounts. Look at Oxygen: you breath it every day in a smal lamount (what is is 22% of atmosphere or so?). If you were to breath 100% oxygen you'd die...... So then should we decide that oxygen is bad? because it's only good in small amounts?

By no means I'm trying to advocate and promote drinking with reckless abandon (sp). I also understand that there are those who will not drink at all out of their personal or religous beliefs. But there is nothing that says that alcohol drank within reason or moderation will be bad for you as you have described.

[xDUMPTRUCKx]

and ya you can get high off oxygen too. but you also cant live without oxygen. its essential to survival, alcohol isnt. its there to mess you up.

[Kejtar]

and ya you can get high off oxygen too. but you also cant live without oxygen. its essential to survival, alcohol isnt. its there to mess you up.
You know what... I respect that you choose not to drink but your take on alcohol and what it does and what it is used for is scary. Such thinking led to prohibition......

[xDUMPTRUCKx]

You know what... I respect that you choose not to drink but your take on alcohol and what it does and what it is used for is scary. Such thinking led to prohibition......


is this how you respond? you attack me saying all my points are bogus by making a bunch of bogus points that i shoot down. and then you disregard things i said earlier in the post. good job a$shat.

my take on what it does to your body is fact. your take on it is looking for something good in the obvious bad.

i really dont give two chits if you drink or not. that your choice its your life, but if your gonna come on here and make some bogus points that are misleading then ya im gonna have something to say, now that you may have confused anyone who may have read my previous posts:

MY OFFICAL STAND ON ALCOHOL: its your life/body do what you please as long as it does not have a negative affect on others. though i would prefer you not drink at all.

[Kejtar]

is this how you respond? you attack me saying all my points are bogus by making a bunch of bogus points that i shoot down. and then you disregard things i said earlier in the post. good job a$shat.

Dude... check your attitude, I have not called you any names nor attacked you (just questioned your statements or opinions, it's called discussing things)...
Anyways, take a look at this (http://www.mayoclinic.com/invoke.cfm?id=SC00024) it outlines some pros and cons.
I've mentioned about cleaning out your kidneys you've mentioned strain on them. Well we're both right to a certain extent. So what does this mean? It means that there are two sides but that doesn't mean that it's all bad. Look at my posts: I do not discredit not drinking. I am not putting it down at all, while you on the other hand indicate that while you will not stop others from drinking if they want to, you try to push a guilt trip o them ("i believe that deep down everyone knows drinkig is wrong").

MY OFFICAL STAND ON ALCOHOL: its your life/body do what you please as long as it does not have a negative affect on others.
Truer words were never spoken

though i would prefer you not drink at all.
no comment.......

Again, I respect those who do not drink at all as I respect vegetarians, but coming out and saying that doing so (drinking, eating meat) is always wrong (correct me if I'm wrong, but that's what it looks like you're saying) is wrong. I will hold a similar discussion with a grass eater (in case anyone missed it, I'm making a joke here) who tries to convince me of my impeeding demise from eating a big fat juicy steak.

[dmillion]

watch a person drinking run to the bathroom to piss like ten times in a span of a couple of hours.

Sorry, but you are simply and completely wrong. That is not what a person who is drinking does, that is what a person who is drinking to excess does.

The problem is that you seem to be unable or unwilling to differentiate between "drinking" and "drinking to excess." Most of the arguments from tee-totalers boil down to the same thing. It is a straw-man argument, wherein you point out the problems related to drinking to excess, and then refuse to acknowlege that moderation is an option. Acknowledge it or not, though, there is a difference.

Drinking is not harmful for you. Drinking to excess is. You can choose not to drink if you wish, and I won't criticize your decision. Do not, however, try to tell me that I am harming my body by having a glass of beer with my dinner, when the plain, undeniable fact of the matter is that I am not.

[xDUMPTRUCKx]

that mayo clinic thing just seems like trying to find a bit of good in the bad. along with all those pros of drinking in moderation, not one side affect of drinking in moderation was discussed. the cons were drinking in excess.

i guess if you tried to compare it to eating meat, meat can kill you if you eat nothing but red meat all day long and sit on your arse. but it provides a great source of protein. but it doesnt kill others, you cant get in a meat eating car accident. i guess you could bring animals into it, but i dont care about cows cause they smell bad and taste good cooked. i love steak, i was vegetarian for 6 months and vegan for a few more, it was healty no doubt, i fwlt better, but i love meat and i was tired of reading the labels to see if i could eat something.

[dmillion]

i guess... meat can kill you if you eat nothing but red meat all day long and sit on your arse.

Exactly. Eating meat to excess is not good for you. Just like drinking to excess is not good for you. But eating meat in moderation not only doesn't harm you, it can actually be good for you. Drinking is exactly the same. There is no difference here.

The only difference is in your attitude about drinking. You don't like drinking. Why? I don't know. I'm sure you have your reasons. Probably they're in some way related to something negative in your life that resulted from someone drinking to excess. I can understand that. Nonetheless, there is a very big difference between drinking, and drinking to excess. Until you are able to see that difference, there is little point in continuing this conversation.

[xDUMPTRUCKx]

no. i cant stand back and hear alcohol is good in moderation. sure the good is always talked about when its in moderation and the bad is always talked about when in excess, i find it hard to believe something thats this bad in excess is good in moderation, im not saying that it doesnt do good things in moderation im just saying it does bad as well.
its treated like posion when its in your body. said and done. mabey if you drink a cup of ammonia it might do something good for you, but dont tell us the bad things it did.

[Kejtar]

if you drink a cup of ammonia it might do something good for you, but dont tell us the bad things it did.
you know what... you might be onto something: why don't you try it and let us know (both good and bad) ;)

[gearwhine]

I've been on the brink of death plenty of times from booze, I can feel my liver tearing itself apart every time I drink, and it feels good. When I pee, all I can think about is drinking some more. I beer batter my chicken, and then drink more beer!

yup, that's how everyone that drinks thinks.

Calm down.

All you keep saying is do what you want, I don't care, I'm liberal....but then you come around and say, I'd rather you not do it, and press your values on everyone else by trying to degrade what they do. I thought you didn't care? I won't say it......

And this is coming from someone that used to think much the same way you do, keep that in mind......but I was young, stupid, and not able to see two sides thoroughly yet. I do share some of your same feelings still, but you are roughly 99% way overboard. _nicko_

[Glenn B]

I think you should go preach your crap somewhere else. You do not like beer, whatever. Do not push your views on us. We do not tolerate that around here.... so shove off on that.


no. i cant stand back and hear alcohol is good in moderation. sure the good is always talked about when its in moderation and the bad is always talked about when in excess, i find it hard to believe something thats this bad in excess is good in moderation, im not saying that it doesnt do good things in moderation im just saying it does bad as well.
its treated like posion when its in your body. said and done. mabey if you drink a cup of ammonia it might do something good for you, but dont tell us the bad things it did.

[red91]

I think you should go preach your crap somewhere else. You do not like beer, whatever. Do not push your views on us. We do not tolerate that around here.... so shove off on that.

No s_it. Nice call G.

If you can't drink in "moderation" and can only drink in "excess"...go to rehab.
And leave us the HELL alone....

[xDUMPTRUCKx]

I think you should go preach your crap somewhere else. You do not like beer, whatever. Do not push your views on us. We do not tolerate that around here.... so shove off on that.


i was in a discussion with someone actually. expressing my opinions and beliefs is not pushin them on you genius. read a few more of my posts and mabey you will understand. theres always some a$$hole like you out there i guess. i dont give two chits what you tolerate round these parts. what are you gonna do ban me? for having a discussion with someone else?

i dont swim in your toliet so dont pee in my pool fag.

[red91]

i was in a discussion with someone actually. expressing my opinions and beliefs is not pushin them on you genius. read a few more of my posts and mabey you will understand. theres always some a$$hole like you out there i guess. i dont give two chits what you tolerate round these parts. what are you gonna do ban me? for having a discussion with someone else?

i dont swim in your toliet so dont pee in my pool fag.


hmmm.... I found this for ya...

NAXJA forum Code of Conduct...
Rudeness toward another Forum participant will not be tolerated. Any participant who is intentionally unpleasant, obscene, or disruptive will receive one (1) warning. Any participant who offends after receiving a warning may be suspended for a period of time determined by the BOD, or banned permanently without further warning.

Personal attacks directed toward another Forum participant will not be tolerated.



Unless you know him, and even then you'd better hope he's in a GOOD mood.

You youngsters, OI VAY. And coming after a Former office holder at that.

"common sense is not very common anymore " - unknown


word to the wise, beacuse I've been there....you'd better start caring about what is, and is not tolerated around here. Just becuase you don't see the lines drawn...doesn't mean they don't EXIST.

[Glenn B]

i was in a discussion with someone actually. expressing my opinions and beliefs is not pushin them on you genius. read a few more of my posts and mabey you will understand. theres always some a$$hole like you out there i guess. i dont give two chits what you tolerate round these parts. what are you gonna do ban me? for having a discussion with someone else?

i dont swim in your toliet so dont pee in my pool fag.

I am sorry, can you please clarify what you mean?

As I see it, you posted your thoughts in public. I did not agree, and now you are calling me names? You think I am an asshole because I do not agree with you? You want to insult me because I do not agree with your position? Ban you? Possibly... you are violating the rules.. so yes, you could be banned. BTW... don't I know that Username from somewhere? Hmmmm

Keep it up, you WILL be on a time out.

[xDUMPTRUCKx]

I am sorry, can you please clarify what you mean?

As I see it, you posted your thoughts in public. I did not agree, and now you are calling me names? You think I am an asshole because I do not agree with you? You want to insult me because I do not agree with your position? Ban you? Possibly... you are violating the rules.. so yes, you could be banned. BTW... don't I know that Username from somewhere? Hmmmm

Keep it up, you WILL be on a time out.

you didnt agree with me and then you told me to stop preaching and go somewhere else. you took it from a discussion to a end all close minded statement. your tryin to make me out to be the bad guy but im not the one who busted the middle of a conversation and said screw you, we dont like you, go home. all i was doing was exchanging opinons with someone who wasnt you.

BTW... don't I know that Username from somewhere? Hmmmm .


i dont follow, please tell me what you mean.

[Glenn B]

Take your preaching elsewhere. Quite simple. I do not care if you think I jumped in the middle of your conversation with others. If it was private, use E-mail. Otherwise, deal with the comments made by Members of this club.

Cheers.


you didnt agree with me and then you told me to stop preaching and go somewhere else. you took it from a discussion to a end all close minded statement. your tryin to make me out to be the bad guy but im not the one who busted the middle of a conversation and said screw you, we dont like you, go home. all i was doing was exchanging opinons with someone who wasnt you.

.


i dont follow, please tell me what you mean.

[red91]

im not the one who busted the middle of a conversation and said screw you, we dont like you, go home. all i was doing was exchanging opinons with someone who wasnt you.


Just so you know....

1.) He (Glenn) NEVER said "screw you".
2.) He (Glenn) NEVER said " We don't like you"
3.) He (Glenn) NEVER said " Go home" He said take it somewhere else.
4.) By initiating (SP) a conversation here, you've opened up the right to everyone else to disagree with you, use your remarks against you, and call SPOBI when/if it is needed.

If you can't handle that then let me be the first to tell you to STFU, and GO HOME. When you can play nicely...come back.

It's just THAT simple. Unless you like stepping on toes...

All Topics, in ALL forums, are open for discussion by all Members / Users.

The option for you to open up your own site is readily available.

[dmillion]

no. i cant stand back and hear alcohol is good in moderation.

Well, at least you're honest enough to admit that you don't want to hear the truth. That doesn't leave much point, however, in trying to have a rational discussion of the matter with you.

[gearwhine]

initiating (SP)


you got it right. :)

[red91]

you got it right. :)


thanks grammar master GW.

BTW....HI. I'm Red and I'm an alcoholic. Nice to be here.

[xDUMPTRUCKx]

Take your preaching elsewhere. Quite simple. I do not care if you think I jumped in the middle of your conversation with others. If it was private, use E-mail. Otherwise, deal with the comments made by Members of this club.

Cheers.


how about you take your preaching somewhere else? all im doing is expressing opinion, so thats preaching? because you disagree its preaching? its great how quickly a one sided argument can be lined up. and you guys call me closed minded and preachy.

[Kejtar]

how about you take your preaching somewhere else? all im doing is expressing opinion, so thats preaching? because you disagree its preaching? its great how quickly a one sided argument can be lined up. and you guys call me closed minded and preachy.

xXJx, discussion and expressing an opinion is one think, saying how you thing others should live and act is another (that's beyond opinon that's along the lines of the preaching part, and that's why I joked about the prohibition). You also threw the first punch when you started to call people names.

thaaaaaaat's alll folks :cheers:

[xDUMPTRUCKx]

xXJx, discussion and expressing an opinion is one think, saying how you thing others should live and act is another


please by all means quote where i told people who to live and act.

[Beej]

:) + :lecture: + :rolleyes: + :mad: + :laugh3: + :wierd: +
:speepin: + :gag: + (:rattle:x 3.14x10^6) + hasta +
:heart: + :flamemad: + :bs: + :jester: + :tears: + :twak: +
:puke: + :nono: + :confused1 + ..... (x2) ... = :lock: ?

[Kejtar]

:) + :lecture: + :rolleyes: + :mad: + :laugh3: + :wierd: +
:speepin: + :gag: + (:rattle:x 3.14x10^6) + hasta +
:heart: + :flamemad: + :bs: + :jester: + :tears: + :twak: +
:puke: + :nono: + :confused1 + ..... (x2) ... = :lock: ?
damn..... and people said that I have a smiley problem!

[bajacalal]

no. i cant stand back and hear alcohol is good in moderation. sure the good is always talked about when its in moderation and the bad is always talked about when in excess, i find it hard to believe something thats this bad in excess is good in moderation.

I think I'll jump in. I find it hard to believe you don't understand this concept. You just mentioned eating meats. What about uh, basically everything else that you put in your body. Iron, vitamins a, c, etc, too much is toxic. Of course alcolhol isin't a vitamin. Sugar, really bad for you except you need some of it. Caffeine in small amounts is useful for energy but causes problems in larger amounts. And even oxygen. Its such a reactive compound that breathing it is destroying you. You can't live without it but your tissues and cells age from exposure to oxygen. I'm sure youve heard of "noting in excess". You do get the point though. While in small amounts it may damage, its kind of insignificant and may have benefits, unless the quantity used is increased, to the point where the damage is overwhelming. Your body is full of poisions though, your sells produce toxins that need to be constantly flushed out with water.

But heres the deal. If you had come here and said, "basically I think its not a good idea because of so and so had bad experiences with different substances, so I don't think its a good idea," everything would be cool. I would say "yeah, I understand & respect your point, I don't really enjoy feeling drunk and belligerent but I like to relax every so ofen and have drink or just a few beers." Instead you came with this immature holier than thou attitude like youre on top of everything and know whats best (even the Mayo Clinic, why the hell would the want to spread disinformation). Not to mention your rediculous attitude and lack of faith in "underage" Americans, your own age group, many of whom are pretty talented and your only reasoning is that some of them are using or a few abusing alcolhol. Then you wonder why youre getting flamed...

[Beej]

damn..... and people said that I have a smiley problem!:D I just tried to sum up the thread for those who don't feel like reading all of it...

[red91]

dihydrogen monoxide in large quantities can be a real PITA sometimes too.

[Darky]

You know, the odd thing to me is that my daughter is 16 and we recently spent a couple of weeks in France. Over there it is perfectly legal for a 16 year-old to drink in a restaurant. We asked if she wanted to try some wine or beer with meals and she declined. Maybe it was the idea of drinking in front of mom and dad--and with their permission--that didn't appeal to her. I'm sure that if the situation had come up when I was 16 I would have jumped at the chance.

By the way, this was my first visit to France. Fabulous place to go, if you ever get the chance. And don't believe any of the crap you hear about the French being unfriendly and not liking Americans. We never ran into anyone who was anything but friendly and helpful while we were over there.
Thank you, that's what I keep telling everyone...Maybe the gov't there is retarded but the citizens love us. I went on a class trip and we actually got to be in Normandy on the anniversary of D-Day. There were more American flags flying there than I see here on the 4th of July.

[Sarge]

im sure you can always find a good thing in a bad substance, african tribes say that smoking pot gives them better eyesite at night, im sure it can eeven be proven they have better eyesite at night, but thats a high price to pay for dead brain cells and lung cancer, erictile dysfunction, hairy tounge, and the munchies amung other wonderfull side affects.

Interesting but wrong. Folks have claimed cannabis does all that but all they can really prove is the munchies and a link to lung cancer. The link to lung cancer is not even a firm link.

http://www.drugtext.org/sub/cannabis1.html
http://www.ccguide.org.uk/noharm.php

Sarge

[dmillion]

Maybe the [French] gov't there is retarded but the citizens love us.

Yep! I don't think the French take politics as personally as a lot of people here in the U.S. do. They may dislike what our government is doing, but they don't see any reason why that should affect the relationships between people. I suspect that has to do with the fact that they have, like, five or six viable political parties, so there isn't as much of the "us vs. them" attitude that goes on between Democrats and Republicans.

Do you know that following the 9/11 attack they had a memorial mass at Notre Dame de Paris? They PACKED the place with more than 6,000 Parisians, and not a dry eye in the house, according to a fellow I talked to who was there. Didn't read about that in the U.S. newspapers, did you?

[biscuitboy87]

Interesting but wrong. Folks have claimed cannabis does all that but all they can really prove is the munchies and a link to lung cancer. The link to lung cancer is not even a firm link.

http://www.drugtext.org/sub/cannabis1.html
http://www.ccguide.org.uk/noharm.php

Sarge

Kudos for backing up with links to info...
BTW the link to lung cancer can be cured by using something alled the 007 kit vaporizer. no combustion and a cooling device. quite revolutionary for a bunch of potheads. goes to show that some people can afford losing brain cells (which comes from the idea that one has to hold in the "smoke" which contributes to a mild form of asphyxiation (SP?) which in turn kills brains cells). Pot itself does not kill braincells because humans have been using it in one way or another for so long that our brains have special receptors for this THC (basically opiate receptors)...and these receptors don't die.
I am not for marijuana, however from a scientific point of view it is far more harmless than alcohol...

[XJ Dreamin']

Hey, y'all. I've quit reading this thread so you don't have to keep it going if you don't want to :wave:

[Kejtar]

Hey, y'all. I've quit reading this thread so you don't have to keep it going if you don't want to :wave:
I think it's got a life of its own now. And it moved on from liquids to solids (or is it gases?):D

[Glenn B]

Hey, y'all. I've quit reading this thread so you don't have to keep it going if you don't want to :wave:

Damn. Does that go for every thread you don't read? Or just the ones you get "proven to be of another planet" on? :D

But since you quit reading this, I guess you will not reply with an answer. The rest of those interested can continue the discussion and snickering. :)

[red91]

This whole thing is strange... I didn't start drinking until I read the first 6 pages of this thread. Now I need it to cope with the ...nevermind.

No. Honest.

[Citat3962]

, i was vegetarian for 6 months and vegan for a few more, it was healty no doubt,

Sorry but that's WRONG...

More vegitarians suffer from malnutrition than even they realize..

lack of amino acids and complex protien intake can lead to muscle atrophy and lots of other issues with digestion..

our bodies are made to be omnivorous...

Know of any Vegan or Vegitarian body builders?? how about athletes? Know of any Veggies you WOULDNT want a fight with because they're CRAZY huge and healthy???

Me neither...

I personally try to eat two vegitarian meals a day breakfast and dinner and have a high protien or all protien meal for lunch. (Shake or a slab o meat) It's healthy to vary your diet to include all kinds of things.

talk about how much better or evolved you are for not drinking and I'll continue to enjoy my booze and spend alot less time worrying about you or anyone elses heath since it's of NO concern to me.. if you dropped dead RIGHT now I couldn't be more apathetic to the situation.. and honestly... the stress of worrying about the bullshit other people do that goes against your opinion will probably kill you before my booze kills me.

preachy SXE's are 90% of the reason I steer clear... It seems like the biggest of the big ego's only need apply. Get over yourself... you'll probably get some horrid disease and it'll all be for nothing..

[dmillion]

preachy SXE's are...

Okay, I give up. Call me thick, but what is an SXE?

[gearwhine]

Okay, I give up. Call me thick, but what is an SXE?


sXe is the pretty much the widely used sign for straight edge....it's like a railroad X with the s and the e inside the X on both sides. Also, if you see XXX, that can also mean straight edge...as well as porn.

It seems like the biggest of the big ego's only need apply. Get over yourself... you'll probably get some horrid disease and it'll all be for nothing..

so true from what I see as well.

_nicko_

[xDUMPTRUCKx]

Sorry but that's WRONG...

More vegitarians suffer from malnutrition than even they realize..

lack of amino acids and complex protien intake can lead to muscle atrophy and lots of other issues with digestion..

our bodies are made to be omnivorous...

Know of any Vegan or Vegitarian body builders?? how about athletes? Know of any Veggies you WOULDNT want a fight with because they're CRAZY huge and healthy???

Me neither...




randy coture, 2 time heavyweight UFC champ and 3 time light heavy weight champ. he is the reason i went veggie/vegan. he used a diet called the alkaline diet. i am throughly convinced that the alkaline diet is the ideal diet and that our bodies were designed to eat the way the way that diet is. at 41 years old randy is still one of last guys on earth id want to have to face up to. when i was on that diet i noticed a 35% improvement in my cardio (treadmill distance,time, heartrate) and muscle was much eaiser to build. the only meat on that diet was fish.

as far as huge buff veggies, wrong again buddy, alot of my vegan friends are pretty huge, soy protein is very usefull. green veggies are full of erverything we need to survive. our mouths arnt even designed to eat meat, notice the lack of pointy, sharp teeth most carniviorus animals have.

[xDUMPTRUCKx]

This whole thing is strange... I didn't start drinking until I read the first 6 pages of this thread. Now I need it to cope with the ...nevermind.

No. Honest.

i have
to admit, that was pretty funny.

[Ramsey]

randy coture, 2 time heavyweight UFC champ and 3 time light heavy weight champ. he is the reason i went veggie/vegan. he used a diet called the alkaline diet. i am throughly convinced that the alkaline diet is the ideal diet and that our bodies were designed to eat the way the way that diet is. at 41 years old randy is still one of last guys on earth id want to have to face up to. when i was on that diet i noticed a 35% improvement in my cardio (treadmill distance,time, heartrate) and muscle was much eaiser to build. the only meat on that diet was fish.
damn did you make one hell of a point. i would do about anything to not square off with this guy. any of yall out there that are late 30s early 40s, watch this guy and you will feel reall really really old

[Sarge]

as far as huge buff veggies, wrong again buddy, alot of my vegan friends are pretty huge, soy protein is very usefull. green veggies are full of erverything we need to survive. our mouths arnt even designed to eat meat, notice the lack of pointy, sharp teeth most carniviorus animals have.

Except for those sharp chisel shaped ones in the front and the canines next to them that is. Humans are and have always been omnivoures. This means meat and veggies. Sharp pointed teeth would imply a carnivour, one who eats mostly or only meat.

I've done the veggie route before, completely veggie, veggie and fish and veggie, fish and chicken. In all honest truth no matter the diet as long as I was smart about what I ate and exercised I felt great. The best feeling was actually when I ceased drinking soda. Of course me being me, I've backslide and drink the stuff again.

Sarge

[xDUMPTRUCKx]

The best feeling was actually when I ceased drinking soda. Of course me being me, I've backslide and drink the stuff again.

Sarge

i quit soda, (i talk about it like its crack or something) ya i went a few months without anysoda except for the rare rootbeer. then i went to a pizza place and asked for a rootbeer, they gave me a dr. pepper and ive been drinking soda steadily since again, but i definetly cut down alot. if only they made a non-caffinated non-diet dr. pepper, jeeze.

[JstSurrender]

I'm 19, never had any alcohol, don't really plan to. People ask if I ever will, eh I might if something tastes good, but I won't try any until I turn 21 for sure.

Diets? It's just a see food diet, I eat what I see pretty much. That's the way it should be... lol but then again, everyone tells me it'll catch up with me when I get older...

~scott

[Darky]

I know I am not the only one who doesn't break laws simply because I would be breaking the law if I did. Of course not in all cases, but I know for a fact that there are several places I stop only because there is a stop sign, and go 25 mph only because that is the speed limit. Honestly, how many times have any of us been at a red light, and were the only one at the intersection (or at least no cross traffic), and waited for the green? If the aswer is more than zero, ask yourself this: "What kept me from going through?" (Hint: it probably has something to do with the law...)

Simple examples I know, but the general idea is that it is about more than whether something is illegal or not. It is something about our society, regardless of laws, that drives us to do certain things. I have no idea what it is, but I don't subscribe to the "legalize it and our problems go away"
school of thought...

On a somewhat related note, I also beleive that, to some degree, it isn't just about illegal, it is about expected penalty vs reward. In those areas that install red light cameras, the number of red light infractions drops. The expectation of a fine has lowered people's desire to break the law - but the law didn't change... and the 'benefit' from running the light didn't go down.

Travis
At the same time rear-end accidents have increased at the majority of intersections with red-light cameras...

[Darky]

actually that is called straining your kidneys, making them work hard is not a good thing as they tend to wear out with age.
Actually alcohol's a diuretic. So is caffeine. It causes you to pee. Its not your body trying to get rid of it. The alcohol won't even be anywhere near being pissed out by the time you start peeing.


i make no claims to expertise, i am merley a spectator, but if your an expert please by all means state your qualifacations?

The Mayo Clinic does make claims to expertise. Here's what they say about it.:Pros


Moderate alcohol consumption may provide some health benefits. It can:

Reduce your risk of developing heart disease, peripheral vascular disease and intermittent claudication
Reduce your risk of dying of a heart attack
Reduce your risk of strokes, particularly ischemic strokes
Lower your risk of gallstones
Possibly reduce your risk of diabetes
Here's the link:Actual Research (http://www.mayoclinic.com/invoke.cfm?id=SC00024)

I'm against heavy drinking but moderate drinking has shown possible benefits. Excessive drinking has been shown to hurt you. What does all this mean to me? Nothing. I like beer. I don't drink for the possible health benefits, that's just a nice perk on the side. About the hardest drink I have anymore is wine and that's rare. I'll go through maybe a 6 pack of beer every 3 weeks or so. Don't try and preach your bogus "facts" as though they are all that matters. You need to calm down, grow up, and learn to tolerate others without automatically assuming they're wrong and you're better than they are or smarter than they are. Especially when a lot of these guys are a good 10-20 yrs older than you. That doesn't always equate wiser but generally speaking it does.

Just noticed that I posted the same link Kejtar did...

[xDUMPTRUCKx]

You need to calm down, grow up, and learn to tolerate others without automatically assuming they're wrong and you're better than they are or smarter than they are. Especially when a lot of these guys are a good 10-20 yrs older than you. That doesn't always equate wiser but generally speaking it does.

Just noticed that I posted the same link Kejtar did...


man mabey your right....my girlfriend of 2 years just broke up with me, on e of the resons was my stance on drinking......i need a drink.

[Beej]

I flatly refuse to believe this thread is still going on...

[andreas970]

so many interesting comments. IMO alcohol is there to be abused. we all know it.

that is, quite possibly, the biggest load of crap I've ever seen posted.

I mean, regardless of my personal views.... and my personal ideals and practices, *I* know that's just BS.

NOTHING is "there to be abused"... be it alcohol or anything else.
Hell, by that logic, LIFE is there to be abused, and those who commit suicide are just giving in to the obvious draw.
*shakes head*

There are some people (plenty of them) who have problems with abusing substances..... alcohol.. tobacco.... food..... and these people have problems. Hopefully these people will either seek help or have loved ones who help them to get help.
That is not the fault of the substance, it's the fault of the person. They have a flaw. They need help. Get it for them.

Don't victimize an inanimate object because someone suffers from a mental disorder and/or addiction..

[Beej]

that is, quite possibly, the biggest load of crap I've ever seen posted.

I mean, regardless of my personal views.... and my personal ideals and practices, *I* know that's just BS.

NOTHING is "there to be abused"... be it alcohol or anything else.
Hell, by that logic, LIFE is there to be abused, and those who commit suicide are just giving in to the obvious draw.
*shakes head*

There are some people (plenty of them) who have problems with abusing substances..... alcohol.. tobacco.... food..... and these people have problems. Hopefully these people will either seek help or have loved ones who help them to get help.
That is not the fault of the substance, it's the fault of the person. They have a flaw. They need help. Get it for them.

Don't victimize an inanimate object because someone suffers from a mental disorder and/or addiction..You've married two contradictory points here...

[Kejtar]

OK, that does it... I am past wanting a beer, now I NEED A BEER!

[andreas970]

You've married two contradictory points here...

Where?

[CheapXJ]

reading this thread makes me want to drink heavily

[Kejtar]

reading this thread makes me want to drink heavily
:cheers: what's your poison (pun heavily intended :D) I'm thinking about some Murphy's right now :D

[CheapXJ]

jim beam

straight

been at it all day.


last night sucked.

[Ramsey]

jim beam

straight

been at it all day.


last night sucked.
ouch

[Kejtar]

jim beam

straight

been at it all day.


last night sucked.
and I thought my day was bad: hell I even had the earth move under my feet :D

[Sarge]

:cheers: what's your poison (pun heavily intended :D) I'm thinking about some Murphy's right now :D

Elijah Craig small batch bourbon. Yum.

Sarge

[andreas970]

jim beam

straight

been at it all day.


last night sucked.

Shit, man, I'm with ya .

I'm all about the beam... straight out of the bottle. :)

[xray]

Drinking is great when done in moderation, never ever while driving. Sometimes its not your so much your age but more the amount of maturity a person posesses. Life is stressful and we need sometimes to take the edge off, a chance to relax and enjoy a little medicinal substance and sometimes alot just please dont drive. I drove drunk for the last time 3/3/98. I missed the turn to my cabin while going at least 50 mph in a xj. I rolled 4 1/2 times, was not wearing my seatbelt. I walked away from it but I was wasted and didnt want to get a ticket. The jeep was totaled . I still got some tickets but not a drunk driving. I went to the hospital 2 days later, the pain was intense almost numbing. When all the tests were done I was told by the dr. that I had a broken neck. I spent 2 weeks one time and 5 days another time in the hospital and after two operations and 7 years later I am at 85%. Believe me its not worth it. I would rather twist a doob, no hang over and it is alot more relaxing but it is illegal ( but shouldnt be). just my opinion.

[scorpio_vette]

I just don't see the point of doing it when I don't have a reason too. Also, I try to be as law abiding as possible

i just saw a movie about something like that.......................oh yea...................40 YEAR OLD VIRGIN. LOL

i'm from germany. legal drinking age is 16. and i even managed to break that law. first time i remember passing out from drinking to much i was around 14. but that was a while ago. now i drink so little the alcohol in my fridge is getting stale.

[karstic]

I flatly refuse to believe this thread is still going on...

Oh but it is, cause some moron just drug it up again :dunno: :twak: :nono:

[5-90]

"All things are good in moderation - including moderation."

Granted, I haven't been drunk in a few years, but I've been drinking pretty steadily. I think it's all the scar tissue that impels me - if I have a couple shots a little before bedtime, it takes the edge off all this pain I've been in for the last 15 years or so, and makes it possible for me to get to sleep.

Booze is easier to get than Tylenol IV, believe me! Especilaly wih the tight-arsed doctors out here (I mean really - all I want is, say, dic or eight Tylonol IV every three months. Nowhere near enough to make for an additction - I have to take two at a time - but there are days where I hurt so damn bad I can't even move, and that's the problem I've got that booze can help with.)

My wife an I take turns playing "Designated Drinker" when we go out anywhere - although I get the job more often than she does (I've got more tolerance for the stuff.)

I'm sure that if you let your kids start drinking early (and maybe give them just ONE bad experience - like I did!) you'll have successfully removed the "mystique" from drinking, and it won't be such a problem for them later - or outside the house.

As far as thinning the blood - I'm sure it does, but I haven't been cut while crocked - so I'd not know. Besides, I have a moderately high platelet count (still healthy, but my self-sealer works quite well...) so me clotting drunk would probably be like a "normal" person sober (for some reason, nearly all of my "normal variations" seem to work together to help me survive...)

If you don't want to drink at all - that's just ducky. If you do, all I'm going to ask is that you don't drive, operate equipment, or endanger people in any other wise when you do. "In my judgement" is NOT a positive defence - the first casualty of drinking is judgement. Put the keys down and stay home!

5-90

[Starboard M]

I'm sure that if you let your kids start drinking early (and maybe give them just ONE bad experience - like I did!) you'll have successfully removed the "mystique" from drinking, and it won't be such a problem for them later - or outside the house.

As far as thinning the blood - I'm sure it does, but I haven't been cut while crocked - so I'd not know. Besides, I have a moderately high platelet count (still healthy, but my self-sealer works quite well...) so me clotting drunk would probably be like a "normal" person sober (for some reason, nearly all of my "normal variations" seem to work together to help me survive...)

If you don't want to drink at all - that's just ducky. If you do, all I'm going to ask is that you don't drive, operate equipment, or endanger people in any other wise when you do. "In my judgement" is NOT a positive defence - the first casualty of drinking is judgement. Put the keys down and stay home!

5-90
Most of my friends drink, and as a high school senior, I agree on some of what you said. However, most of the people who drink that are kids, dont understand their limit. They drink and drink and drink, untill their body makes them puke it all up. Sad part is, they drink some water, and tehn keep on drinking. THey do this fairly regularly too. So the bad experience type thing wont really affect people, or at least teenagers.

Every party that I go to, my girlfriend and I are the DDs. We take away as many keys as we can and give some rides home for people who want them. Luckely most people spend the nights after partys, which is good, so there is not very much drunk driving.

[bajacalal]

Sad part is, they drink some water, and tehn keep on drinking. THey do this fairly regularly too. So the bad experience type thing wont really affect people, or at least teenagers.

It does, some people are just slow learners and some aren't mature enough to resist the pressure and egging-on. Good that you are helping friends get home safely.

[red91]

i just got back from AA and saw this....

No wonder I took up drinking again.

[shortxjdoug]

have one every now and then( once or twice a year). usually i'm just the 18 year old babysitting other 18 year olds

[rock rash]

Die Thread Die!!!

[buzzbombxj]

"All things are good in moderation - including moderation."

shouldn't it be some things in moderation?

[1989laredoxj]

Most of my friends drink, and as a high school senior, I agree on some of what you said. However, most of the people who drink that are kids, dont understand their limit. They drink and drink and drink, untill their body makes them puke it all up. Sad part is, they drink some water, and tehn keep on drinking. THey do this fairly regularly too. So the bad experience type thing wont really affect people, or at least teenagers.

Every party that I go to, my girlfriend and I are the DDs. We take away as many keys as we can and give some rides home for people who want them. Luckely most people spend the nights after partys, which is good, so there is not very much drunk driving.

I have to disagree there is a limit to what a person can drink for example at a party I went to over the summer I chugged half a liter of vodka about 20 minutes later I was puking and shivering uncontrollably. In all honesty I thought I was going to die. I had been drunk before but nothing like this it scared me so much that even the taste of hard liquor makes me feel sick the only thing I can drink now is beer and even then I am to afraid to drink to much.

[5-90]

shouldn't it be some things in moderation?

No, I've found "all things in moderation" to work - when you make sure to include moderation.

Sometimes, the easiest way to stick to a diet is to binge once in a while.

Take moderation in moderation, and remember that, sometimes, it's good for the soul to go overboard on something every now and again, and you'll likely live longer and have a happier life.

On a tangent - kinda makes me think of discussions I have with my wife. It seems that we're so fixated on being healthier, that we're just not managing it. Everytime I see a TV advert or somesuch on the perils of something, the benefits of something else, or the latest prescription to kerb your cholesterol, I start wondering again.

Sure, we're getting healthier, but are we really living longer, or are we just staying alive longer? The difference sounds like semantics, but it is crucial...

My mother-in-law is the same age as my grandfolks. She takes more pills in a day than I do in a month (even counting the pain meds lately - I only take those to take the edge off the knitting bones when I go to sleep,) and sure she's alive, but she's not really healthy (on account of her, I'm on a first-name basis with at least eight MD's!) and she's staying alive, so I guess she's "living longer."

But is it really living when you can barely get from one end of the house to the other under your own steam, and your reflexes, reaction, and reason are shot to Hell?

Contrast with my maternal grandfolks. My granddad was quite healthy for all but the last six months of his life (pancreatic cancer - I posted some of the story here, I think,) and was on NO medication. My grandmother is still kicking, is a year older than my M-I-L, also takes NO medication, works part-time to keep herself busy, and is just ticking along four-oh, thank you very much. The only real problem she's got is her teeth - and she didn't lose those due to age - she lost them in a motorcycle accident about forty years ago (the same incident where my grandfather lost his teeth.)

He ate - and she eats - much the same diet I do - largely carnivorous, lots of gravy, lots of breads and such. She stays/they stayed active without medical assistance.

The diet may suck - but that's what they grew up eating - and what I grew up eating, so why change? Besides, my cholesterol count is lower than my GP's - and he's a vegetarian! I must be doing something right...

The only medication I take - other than the pain meds that I will stop needing again soon - is one for ADD - it allows me to tolerate incompetence in California on a daily basis. I've never had much tolerance for incompetence in any form - being out here makes me feel like an expatriated American (certainly not the country I grew up in!) and I can't wait to get back. I shouldn't need the psych meds anymore, once I get out of here. My blood pressure will probably drop another 20 points as well.

Rather than rely on "medical science" for my health, I just listen to my body. I'm familiar with the noises it makes during normal operation (just like my truck!) and I can usually tell when something goes amiss. I get a craving, and I answer it - a food craving usually denotes a deficiency in the system.

How am I doing? I've come to a violent end twice now (exsanguination in ER due to stab wound in 1991, hit by a car at freeway speeds two months ago) and I'm rapidly gaining my health once again. It's funny - the doctors didn't really have to do anything but watch this last time - I'm sure I'm a medical disappointment (that's what's funny to me - I got hit so hard it blew a two-week hole in my memory, but no new major scars, no stitches - it was all "non-displaced" fractures. My diet can't be too screwed up, if I did so well form that. I know people MY age that take supplements and health meds, and follow strict diets - they're amazed, and are beginning to think I have a point...)

5-90

[XJ Dreamin']

No, I've found "all things in moderation" to work - when you make sure to include moderation.

Sometimes, the easiest way to stick to a diet is to binge once in a while.

Take moderation in moderation, and remember that, sometimes, it's good for the soul to go overboard on something every now and again, and you'll likely live longer and have a happier life.

On a tangent - kinda makes me think of discussions I have with my wife. It seems that we're so fixated on being healthier, that we're just not managing it. Everytime I see a TV advert or somesuch on the perils of something, the benefits of something else, or the latest prescription to kerb your cholesterol, I start wondering again.

Sure, we're getting healthier, but are we really living longer, or are we just staying alive longer? The difference sounds like semantics, but it is crucial...

My mother-in-law is the same age as my grandfolks. She takes more pills in a day than I do in a month (even counting the pain meds lately - I only take those to take the edge off the knitting bones when I go to sleep,) and sure she's alive, but she's not really healthy (on account of her, I'm on a first-name basis with at least eight MD's!) and she's staying alive, so I guess she's "living longer."

But is it really living when you can barely get from one end of the house to the other under your own steam, and your reflexes, reaction, and reason are shot to Hell?

Contrast with my maternal grandfolks. My granddad was quite healthy for all but the last six months of his life (pancreatic cancer - I posted some of the story here, I think,) and was on NO medication. My grandmother is still kicking, is a year older than my M-I-L, also takes NO medication, works part-time to keep herself busy, and is just ticking along four-oh, thank you very much. The only real problem she's got is her teeth - and she didn't lose those due to age - she lost them in a motorcycle accident about forty years ago (the same incident where my grandfather lost his teeth.)

He ate - and she eats - much the same diet I do - largely carnivorous, lots of gravy, lots of breads and such. She stays/they stayed active without medical assistance.

The diet may suck - but that's what they grew up eating - and what I grew up eating, so why change? Besides, my cholesterol count is lower than my GP's - and he's a vegetarian! I must be doing something right...

The only medication I take - other than the pain meds that I will stop needing again soon - is one for ADD - it allows me to tolerate incompetence in California on a daily basis. I've never had much tolerance for incompetence in any form - being out here makes me feel like an expatriated American (certainly not the country I grew up in!) and I can't wait to get back. I shouldn't need the psych meds anymore, once I get out of here. My blood pressure will probably drop another 20 points as well.

Rather than rely on "medical science" for my health, I just listen to my body. I'm familiar with the noises it makes during normal operation (just like my truck!) and I can usually tell when something goes amiss. I get a craving, and I answer it - a food craving usually denotes a deficiency in the system.

How am I doing? I've come to a violent end twice now (exsanguination in ER due to stab wound in 1991, hit by a car at freeway speeds two months ago) and I'm rapidly gaining my health once again. It's funny - the doctors didn't really have to do anything but watch this last time - I'm sure I'm a medical disappointment (that's what's funny to me - I got hit so hard it blew a two-week hole in my memory, but no new major scars, no stitches - it was all "non-displaced" fractures. My diet can't be too screwed up, if I did so well form that. I know people MY age that take supplements and health meds, and follow strict diets - they're amazed, and are beginning to think I have a point...)

5-90

There's a huge element of genetics involved here. But, besides that, please see my previous post (http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=56099&page=9&pp=15) in this thread.

[Zebaru]

At the same time rear-end accidents have increased at the majority of intersections with red-light cameras...

SInce this is back from the dead already...

Generally speaking, side impact collisions are reduced and rear-end collisions are increased when red-light cameras are installed. The overall economic benefit is generally positive due to the less severe nature of rear-end collisions as compared to side collisions.

This is not however, part of people's thought process at an intersection. They stop on yellows (or make last minute stopping decisions, or whatever it is that is causing the rear-end collision increase) more frequently because of the threat of a fine (the law) - which was my original point... perceived risk vs reward.

Travis

[5-90]

There's a huge element of genetics involved here. But, besides that, please see my previous post (http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=56099&page=9&pp=15) in this thread.

I'm sure there is. Genetics is always a factor - but what genetic "switch" got thrown, for instance, to suddenly cause all the allergies we're dealing with?

That's another example - every time I turn around, there's some new thing for "allergy relief" or something, or we're hearing from allergists about something (and don't even get me going on the exponential increase in MD's in general!) Could the increase in the incidence of allergies be due to some genetic "switch" that was thrown, is it environmental, or is it simply psychosomatic - a self-fulfilling prophecy because we're constantly bombarded with the ads for "allergy relief?" That's leaving alone the conspiracy theories that I'm sure some could come up with to "explain" this - I'm looking for real solutions.

"Overactive bladder." That's another one that I wonder about - all the commercials for "overactive bladder" meds that I see have people in their 30's and 40's - Depends is showing people in their 40's for their "active" wear (you know, they don't make your pants all puffy...)

As far as reversing hair loss or correcting erectile dysfunction, don't even get me started! I'd not mind losing a little hair (it's plenty thick as it is,) and last time I checked, if your penis didn't work, it was trying to tell you something! Maybe you just aren't supposed to breed...

I do hear your point on genetics, but it seems to me that there are more medical problems all of a sudden than can be accounted for with just genetics...

5-90

[XgeekstarX]

i'm straight edge, so no.

[XJ Dreamin']

I'm sure there is. Genetics is always a factor - but what genetic "switch" got thrown, for instance, to suddenly cause all the allergies we're dealing with?

That's another example - every time I turn around, there's some new thing for "allergy relief" or something, or we're hearing from allergists about something (and don't even get me going on the exponential increase in MD's in general!) Could the increase in the incidence of allergies be due to some genetic "switch" that was thrown, is it environmental, or is it simply psychosomatic - a self-fulfilling prophecy because we're constantly bombarded with the ads for "allergy relief?" That's leaving alone the conspiracy theories that I'm sure some could come up with to "explain" this - I'm looking for real solutions.

"Overactive bladder." That's another one that I wonder about - all the commercials for "overactive bladder" meds that I see have people in their 30's and 40's - Depends is showing people in their 40's for their "active" wear (you know, they don't make your pants all puffy...)

As far as reversing hair loss or correcting erectile dysfunction, don't even get me started! I'd not mind losing a little hair (it's plenty thick as it is,) and last time I checked, if your penis didn't work, it was trying to tell you something! Maybe you just aren't supposed to breed...

I do hear your point on genetics, but it seems to me that there are more medical problems all of a sudden than can be accounted for with just genetics...

5-90

I was primarily referring to your apparent propensity for longevity and health, despite the gloom and doom in the general press surrounding your dietary preferences. My father, at 80, weighs 180#. His dietary preferences center around frying things in bacon fat. He has weighed 180# for as long as I can remember. Meanwhile, my mom and I share an all too persistent tendency toward obesity. I am currently well over 300# (let's not get into how far over) and I haven't fried anything in bacon fat in several years. When Mom finally got him to submit to cholesterol screening some years ago the results came back, "Continue current life style." My father's ancestry is black Irish and German. My mother's is Swedish and German. Their kids who got black hair like their father have had little problem with their weight. Those of us who got blond hair like mom have struggled. Coincidence or genetics. Our family is a small sample population for making grand statements about genetic tendencies, but I like to use bad genes as my excuse.

Those who do not feel an urge to eat when they are not hungry: those who stop eating when they feel full: those people are like the naive do-gooder who implores of their friend suffering from depression to, "Just be happy." A nice sentiment, but it doesn't go very far toward addressing the underlying problem.

As far as allergies: there is a theory, currently, that presents the possibility that exposure to an increasing variety of chemicals at ever younger and younger ages is a factor contributing to a perceived increase in the incidence of allergies among children and young adults. In particular, recently there is increasing concern surrounding peanuts and tree nuts like pecans, or walnuts. There seems to be a near epidemic increase in reports of nut related allergies in children and young adults. Vaccines, or the serums that carry the inoculating agents, have also been suggested as triggers causing increasing incidences of allergies.

On the other hand, I wouldn't rely on media advertising for a reliable assessment of the medical state of the nation. The primary intent of pharmaceutical advertising is to get the consumer to pester their doctor into prescribing the target product. Whether the patient is actually ill or not is not the point. This was the primary argument against pharmaceutical advertising for many years. Let the doctor select drugs based on an actual diagnosis, not on how strongly their patient will lobby for a drug because they saw it on TV. The pharmaceutical manufacturers always wanted to advertise while the doctors were against it. The doctors lost. Now, according to TV, everybody has every disease ever known and everybody needs every drug ever made. Just ask your doctor.

[XJ Dreamin']

I have to disagree there is a limit to what a person can drink for example at a party I went to over the summer I chugged half a liter of vodka about 20 minutes later I was puking and shivering uncontrollably. In all honesty I thought I was going to die. I had been drunk before but nothing like this it scared me so much that even the taste of hard liquor makes me feel sick the only thing I can drink now is beer and even then I am to afraid to drink to much.

I wouldn't call puking before you die a reliable limit to what a person can drink. To rely on puking before you die to regulate your alcohol consumption is a bit like relying on withdrawing to prevent pregnancy. In both cases you are misguided and all too often, too late.

Having said that: My first girlfriend and I did practice withdrawal one night. We spent the next three weeks with our fingers crossed. We were lucky, and we learned our lesson. On my 21st birthday I drank something over 30 shots of Jack in 4 hours. I survived, but only after puking every hour or half-hour for 21 hours straight. I learned a lesson from that one, too.

[5-90]

As far as allergies: there is a theory, currently, that presents the possibility that exposure to an increasing variety of chemicals at ever younger and younger ages is a factor contributing to a perceived increase in the incidence of allergies among children and young adults. In particular, recently there is increasing concern surrounding peanuts and tree nuts like pecans, or walnuts. There seems to be a near epidemic increase in reports of nut related allergies in children and young adults. Vaccines, or the serums that carry the inoculating agents, have also been suggested as triggers causing increasing incidences of allergies.

On the other hand, I wouldn't rely on media advertising for a reliable assessment of the medical state of the nation. The primary intent of pharmaceutical advertising is to get the consumer to pester their doctor into prescribing the target product. Whether the patient is actually ill or not is not the point. This was the primary argument against pharmaceutical advertising for many years. Let the doctor select drugs based on an actual diagnosis, not on how strongly their patient will lobby for a drug because they saw it on TV. The pharmaceutical manufacturers always wanted to advertise while the doctors were against it. The doctors lost. Now, according to TV, everybody has every disease ever known and everybody needs every drug ever made. Just ask your doctor.

Interesting theories on allergy incidence - perhaps it would explain much. Does anyone have a demographic breakdown, by age, on the incidence of allergies - perhaps correlated by age and environmental factors versus incident allergy? It might be an interesting study...

I'm also not in favour of pharmaceutical advertisments - and I never did think that doctors were involved in that decision. After all, doctors only make money from appointments, they're not supposed to make money from pharmaceuticals (unless they're taking kickbacks.) I think pharmaceutical adverts should NOT be on TV - since it would cause people to review themselves and inflate insignificant miniutiae into "diseases" - which they'll then demand treatment for. Then, the pharma companies make money - because people end up buying some meds they probably don't need after all (but end up on for the rest of their lives anyhow, since they're convinced they have some "disease" or "condition."

I also don't think that adverts are a reliable indicator of national health - the adverts are put on for one reason and one reason ONLY - to sell something. The doctors would be against the idea because it would create a bunch of psychosomatic "illnesses" (given the weakened minds and hypochondria that I run across all the time, it's not much of a surprise to me!) that they'd have to "treat." It's a pity they can't give placebos for people who think that they've got something, when they don't...

5-90

[XJ Dreamin']

Interesting theories on allergy incidence - perhaps it would explain much. Does anyone have a demographic breakdown, by age, on the incidence of allergies - perhaps correlated by age and environmental factors versus incident allergy? It might be an interesting study...

I'm also not in favour of pharmaceutical advertisments - and I never did think that doctors were involved in that decision. After all, doctors only make money from appointments, they're not supposed to make money from pharmaceuticals (unless they're taking kickbacks.) I think pharmaceutical adverts should NOT be on TV - since it would cause people to review themselves and inflate insignificant miniutiae into "diseases" - which they'll then demand treatment for. Then, the pharma companies make money - because people end up buying some meds they probably don't need after all (but end up on for the rest of their lives anyhow, since they're convinced they have some "disease" or "condition."

I also don't think that adverts are a reliable indicator of national health - the adverts are put on for one reason and one reason ONLY - to sell something. The doctors would be against the idea because it would create a bunch of psychosomatic "illnesses" (given the weakened minds and hypochondria that I run across all the time, it's not much of a surprise to me!) that they'd have to "treat." It's a pity they can't give placebos for people who think that they've got something, when they don't...

5-90

The doctors' primary argument was simply that they did not want to be pestered by hypochondriacs. They had a corollary argument that if an ethical doctor refused to prescribe a medication the patient didn't need, the patient would persist with other doctors until one was found who would. This argument was weak in that the response is that doctors should police themselves to prevent unethical prescription writing. Unfortunately, policing themselves is an area where doctors are notoriously weak. The doctors lobbying against advertising knew this but couldn't say it out loud. In the end, it was their own weakness of ethics that lost the case against pharmaceutical advertising.

Ironically, it is our history of medical support that created and maintains a high level of genetic diversity in our population. That high level of diversity, in part, fuels the pharmacological market. I know I would never have survived in a population without that support. If I had been born into such a population I would have run into some allergen, become congested and died from an opportunistic secondary infection. Of course, I might not have been subjected to the barrage of exotic chemicals our population is exposed to and might never have had allergies. That is where it becomes difficult to distinguish between nature and nurture. Do I have allergies because of my genes or because of my history of exposure? If a primitive population has a low incidence of allergies, it that due to selective pressure or do they coincidentally have a low exposure profile? That's a difficult distinction to make.

The most recent genetic discovery I've heard of, and one that I particularly enjoy, is the discovery that the genetic difference between darkly pigmented skin and lightly pigmented skin in one base pair: that's it. Just one base pair switched and we run off killing and enslaving whole populations. Now that's rich.

edit: I should add: The plethora of artificial dyes and flavorings in drinks and foods marketed to children are also suspect as triggers for allergies that can develop later in life.

[Dave in Eugene]

Don't kid yourself. A medical practice is almost always a for profit business owned by (news flash) a doctor or a group of them. They make money when patients walk in the front door. To the extent that pharmaceutical commercials increase that traffic, they're all for it. And I don't see a chorus of medics putting their mugs in front of cameras denouncing it. Only the do-gooder liberal socialized medicine types - and they make their money by getting a per patient allowance of taxpayer money and NOT treating them.

I prefer capitalism and don't pay too much attention to TV commercials, they contain little useful information. But I do find humor in the long running Wellbutrin ad: "...and I have to say it's nice, that there's a low risk of sexual side effects." Now who really talks like that? Then there is the voice over in the middle calmly speaking about SIEZURES :huh: Don't know about everybody else, but it makes me want to run right out and get some.

Now I'm gonna have to read the whole thread and see what any of that has to do with underage drinking.

[5-90]

We started on UA drinking, then got going on a tangent.

I've never said that any medical practise is not a "for-profit" business (although, lately, I've been wondering just what the profits turned out to be...) just that the incidence of "health issues" has been on the rise lately - how much of that is genuine, and how much hypochondria - and that I'd be curious to see how much "genuine" health issues have been increasing, and how much of that might be due to environmental factors and how much genetic?

Please do read my previous posts - I think I've raised more questions than answers - and some of those would probably be considered "imponderables" with the way society is going. I don't mind going to see a doctor for trauma - I'm sure he'd do a better job of it than I could - but I can't help but wonder how many "health issues" might be a result of perception or weak-mindedness than heredity or environmental factors (borne of the adverts,) and how it seems that even though we've got "cures" for more conditions, why aren't we healthier to begin with?

I'm sure the pharmaceutical companies are more interested in preserving lifespan than "quality of life" - because the longer we live, the more likely we are to need what they're pushing. We're "staying alive" longer, but are we really "living" all that time?

And, we've got more curatives available, but are we really "healthier?"

I've been contending that the answer to both questions is actually No, but what I'd like to know is "Why?" to both...

5-90

[XJ Dreamin']

We're "staying alive" longer, but are we really "living" all that time?

5-90

"Living" is overrated. "You haven't lived until you've jumped off a cliff." My response: "You're only alive until you hit the bottom." I prefer Dr. Who's assessment: "As long as there is life, there is hope."

On the other hand: After the bone marrow transplant failed my brother, in the end, as his systems began failing one after another, we authorized increasing morphine doses until he passed on. He couldn't go on any machines anyway - he couldn't clot and he had no immune defenses.

As far as hypochondria. I know that when I didn't have insurance I didn't see a doctor for 10 years. Since I've had insurance I see one about twice a year. It's only $15 bucks a pop. Of course he gets $60 from my insurance company but that's a pittance out of the premiums that I pay. Now days I have allergies. Growing up I used to say that I had inherited my father's sinuses (he always had handkerchiefs stashed around the house in bureaus and side table drawers). To this day he still doesn't have allergies, although he's still blowing his nose twenty times a day. Of course, until a few months ago he wasn't deaf. Then he decided to get hearing aids. Turns out he was deaf after all (as if the rest of us hadn't known that for 40 years). Funny how there isn't a problem all along and then, suddenly, there is.

I quit smoking, cold turkey: it'll be six years come May. I did it without any gum or patches or any of that crap advertised on TV (although I did have help). Now days, I'm trying to figure how to quit eating, cold turkey. I'm still working on that one, but I don't believe any of that diet aid crap advertised on TV.

"Why?"
5-90

I don't think we're getting any closer on that one.

[XJ Dreamin']

Don't kid yourself. A medical practice is almost always a for profit business owned by (news flash) a doctor or a group of them. They make money when patients walk in the front door. To the extent that pharmaceutical commercials increase that traffic, they're all for it. And I don't see a chorus of medics putting their mugs in front of cameras denouncing it. Only the do-gooder liberal socialized medicine types - and they make their money by getting a per patient allowance of taxpayer money and NOT treating them.

I think they realized that after the fact. For many decades the medical establishment squelched prescription advertising for the reasons stated above. After they lost, they came to realize the boon that advertising brings them. That's why you don't see anybody talking against it today when they had prevented it for so long, before.

But I do find humor in the long running Wellbutrin ad: "...and I have to say it's nice, that there's a low risk of sexual side effects."

I've always wanted more details on that. Exactly what sexual side effect are they talking about? Too much sex? Sign me up! A Clockwork Orange reaction to sex? Well, maybe this depression isn't so bad after all.

[red_01_xj]

ha ive had a few coke and rums and port wine tonight...and maybe a few beers...ha what ever is free for me... ha i just fell out of my chair....this next week is rush week at my frat and we need to get all the booze out....

[rock rash]

ha ive had a few coke and rums and port wine tonight...and maybe a few beers...ha what ever is free for me... ha i just fell out of my chair....this next week is rush week at my frat and we need to get all the booze out....fcaker

[Beej]

Drugs and alcohol are inherently 'bad'...

[91Limited]

coffee and cigarettes...
thats the way i took

[zfinger]

I'm almost 20. I've never drank and drove. Alcohol has never gotten me into any trouble, and I've never been irresponsible about it. That being said, I'm allowed to come home(my parents house) and have a beer or 2 or 12. And I'm allowed to keep my beer in their fridge. And when I go out, they ask where I'm going, I tell them, they ask if I'm drinking, I tell them, and they ask who driving or where I'm staying, I tell them. If the drinking age were 18 I can honestly say I would be one of the responsible ones.

[94_2wdcherokee]

hell im still underage (20) and ive been drinkin since i was 16. lol.


same here bro and iam gonna keep on drinking rock on.........

[rock rash]

can we kill this thread?

[OT]

can we kill this thread?
You know how to kill it.

Just do it......

[0313]

can we kill this thread?


Did ya learn your lesson on poll closing dates now?

[rock rash]

i guess