bead locks

[xjjunkie]

i'm ready to buy rims for my rig. need some input though. should i buy steel rims (american racing, mrt, ect) or aluminum. either way i will weld beadlocks to them. plan on 35's should i get 8 or 10 inch wide. will the aluminum be beadlock be strong enough. plus i'm concerned about weight. for some reason i'm conserned about rotating weight. i read in smokey yunicks bio that for every 1-lb of rotating weight you loose it's worth
10-lbs of standing weight. (yes 10 to 1 ratio, and it was confirmed by numerous chassic experts)

scot

[DeadEyeJ]

I'd go for the aluminum if money doesn't matter. Especially the forged ones, as they are MUCH lighter and stronger.
Any beadlock wheel is pretty darn strong, as they all have big reinforcing ring welded to them.
As far as weight goes, the 10 to 1 thing, accurate or not, is only for acceleration/deceleration. Not such a big deal while crawling.
Tire weight also matters a lot more than wheel weight because they are farther from the centerline of the axle. To demonstrate, imagine 2 sledgehammers connected end to end. Which would be easier to start or stop spinning; with the heads connected together or with the handles connected together? Both combinations weigh the same, but certainly they spin easier with the bulk of the weight distributed closer to the center of the rotation. Same with wheels/tires.

[Goatman]

There are plenty of companies now who make beadlock wheels, I wouldn't bother trying to make them yourself. Whether you go with steel or aluminum is strictly a matter of personal preference and weight. I can tell you that just from throwing my wheels/tires around while loading, my aluminum beadlocks are lighter than my old steel non-beadlock wheels. I thought about spending the extra money on forged aluminum wheels, but decided that the beadlock rings add enough strength that the price of the forged wheels wasn't justified. Also, if you're leaning towards light weight, the difference in price between the steel and aluminum beadlocks isn't that much.

[Mich88XJ]

I don't know if you are planning on driving on the road or not, but beadlocks are not legal, except for these ones. (http://www.offroadonly.com/products/new/rocklox/) Just a thought, hope it helps.

[Beezil]

have you checked out 6x6usa???

I was just looking at them tonight, based on a suggestion someone gave me......

[Cresso]

Originally posted by Mich88XJ
I don't know if you are planning on driving on the road or not, but beadlocks are not legal, except for these ones. (http://www.offroadonly.com/products/new/rocklox/) Just a thought, hope it helps.

This topic is covered about once a month on Pirate4x4 (http://www.pirate4x4.com) , so I won't bother repeating it here. The main gist of it is that a lot of people mention legality when it comes to beadlocks, but no one can produce a written law anywhere that says they're not legal. For what it's worth, there are quite a few people here in Colorado (including myself) running around on beadlocks and I've yet to hear of anyone getting in trouble for them.

[Weasel]

Champion Beadlocked wheels, or Weld I think they have a real beadlock now.

Forged are the way to go if you want to weld to them. I belive Cast is much more difficult to weld and has some special handling techniques. Even forged wheels should have some heat treating done after being welded to relive the weld area.

Beezil, I talked to someone today that had dealt with the owner (Daniel?) of USA 6x6 and he was saying the guy was just a jerk to him on the phone.

[Goatman]

Originally posted by Mich88XJ
I don't know if you are planning on driving on the road or not, but beadlocks are not legal, except for these ones. (http://www.offroadonly.com/products/new/rocklox/) Just a thought, hope it helps.

This is getting old. Does anyone know where this urban myth actually came from? Who can show the law that says that beadlocks are illegal? Anyone?

My Champion beadlocks are cast wheels, not forged. Unless you send him you're own wheels, the ones Champion sells are all cast wheels. No way to make a beadlock wheel without welding to the wheel, so I guess you can weld to cast wheels. :rolleyes:

Weld does not make a beadlock wheel, only a fake beadlock look wheel.

[JJ13]

LOL, how many Police actually know what a beadlock is, and If he/she actually knows what they are, he/she probably wheels and would be drooling over your rig anyway.

[XJguy]

Fellas its not that are illegal per se, its that they are not DOT approved. The cost of testing is prohibitively expensive for the small companies that manufacture beadlocks.

XJguy

[PhatXJ]

I have several cops for friends, and I have gone over this subject with them. They all know what beadlocks are, and they all know that 99% of them are not DOT approved, however, they said that they wouldn't ever pull somone over for just that, unless they used it to get the guy pulled over to check him for something else like we all know cops do and they will admit it. You know, the "your taillight was out 10 minutes ago" thing. Anyway, so they basicly said they've never given a fixit ticket for beadlocks, nor pulled someone over for them specificly. I would, and am getting some for my rig which will be my only set of rims.

Hell, the vast majority of offroad lights, bumpers, rock rails etc are not DOT approved anyway, whats one more thing.

[xj4rocks]

Originally posted by Goatman
This is getting old. Does anyone know where this urban myth actually came from? Who can show the law that says that beadlocks are illegal? Anyone?

Petersen's $wheel and offroard were perpetuating the myth the other month in their beadlock layout. They plain out said they were not legal for the road. Don't know where it started but the mags keep it going.

Xjjunkie: why do you think you need beadlocks? have you rolled one off the rim? i'm running 36's on 8" rims and haven't even really come all that close to rolling one off the bead. the beads are very tight on the rims. just curious. with a 35" tire i would definitely recommend starting with an 8" rim

It seems that beadlocks are the latest bolt on fad that's all. yes they work and yes they're usefull, but my money would be that 80%+ of the people that have beadlocks don't actually need them or don't wheel in spots that would roll beads off the rims.

[Beezil]

as long as they're no illegal while sitting on a trailer....

(snicker)

[Beezil]

Weasel, Personally, I'm not afraid of jerks, it just means I hafta be a bigger one!

what would be your top three for beadlocks?

[4ward]

Beadlocks are a necessity to me. The past few times I've been out they would've made a couple of the obstacles I've been trying. I can't drop that couple more pounds I need in order to get my tires to work to their optimum without popping them off the bead. Yes, I've rolled them off on several occasions, and not at the pressures that I'm wanting. If you haven't rolled one off the rim and you're crawlin', most likely you haven't played enough with tire pressures to get it 100% correct.

The acceleration/deceleration issue is a big deal. When you are stuck between a rock and a hard place (pun intended) and you need to romp on the gas to get some momentum to pop over something, that extra little bit will help. I can't wait to get a lighter set of tires and some alloy rims. My junk just can't accelerate out of a hole like it did with my last set of tires/rims.

Walker Evan's Racing has their new beadlocks out that don't have a welded on ring, it's machined in. Ultra expensive and only come in 17's for now though :(

I have spoked with Daniel on the phone, solicited a bunch of free advice from him. He seems like a stand up guy to me.

Sean

[Beezil]

but those 6x6 ones are steel aren't they?

i totally agree with you on light-weight. I'm glad to be wearing aluminum rims now, I think its made a difference.

I'm just glad we don't hear anymore of that "steel bends, aluminum cracks" bullshit.......which is almost as bad as people saying a grade 5 is stronger than a grade 8 because it stretches.....where do people cme up with this shit? anyway.....

I haven't found the "perfect" beadlock in my searches yet.....

what i want is too expensive!!!!!!

[JJacobs]

As for the dot approved thing, this is a quote from Scott Ellinger of Rockstomper:

"DOT is not an approval agency either... there are no DOT approved anythings. I don't care what somebody says about it. DOT writes the laws--manufacturers stamp their product DOT to signify that it complies with DOT regulations, not to signify that DOT has inspected and/or approved it. Stamping it DOT makes the manufacturer criminally liable for it if it's not compliant with the regs, but doesn't make something DOT approved."

Wheels are designed to fail in an overload situation by cracking and releasing air slowly. Welding on a wheel for repairs is illegal, adding a part to a wheel with the welder is not. Most centers are welded anyhow last I looked.

His weld on kits are good, but if you're starting from scratch I like Allied aka High-Impact locks, ran 'em last year with no troubles. No leaks which I can't say about Trailready, bolts don't loosen, seriously beefy ring. Unfortunately they must know this by now cuz they aren't real cheap.

.02

[JJacobs]

Originally posted by Beezil
but those 6x6 ones are steel aren't they?

I'm just glad we don't hear anymore of that "steel bends, aluminum cracks" bullshit.......which is almost as bad as people saying a grade 5 is stronger than a grade 8 because it stretches.....where do people cme up with this shit? anyway.....



Um, Beezil, don't think so. I'd have to agree that steel bends and aluminum cracks, at the tire shop I've seen it many, many times.

As for the grade 5 vs 8 argument- why do people have success removing grade 8 engine mount bracket bolts on 4.0's, replacing with grade 5, and no more snappy snappy.

Hmmm???

[PhatXJ]

Originally posted by xj4rocks
It seems that beadlocks are the latest bolt on fad that's all. yes they work and yes they're usefull, but my money would be that 80%+ of the people that have beadlocks don't actually need them or don't wheel in spots that would roll beads off the rims.

I agree that a lot of people don't need them, but if you wheel on rocks at all, I think it's a necessity. I've seen many many applications where a bead lock would have been a savior, and several times where they were.

http://myweb.cableone.net/twizum007/grinder/images/Grinder_027.jpg

http://myweb.cableone.net/twizum007/grinder/images/Grinder_032.jpg

He was real glad he didn't blow a bead right there.

[Erik]

I just ordered a set of Champion beadlocks on AM Baja wheels yesterday. Within a couple of weeks I should be able to tell you wether or not the OR State Police considers them legal or not. They all seem interested in talking with me these days.

[Erik]

Oh, and I went aluminum because I'm a skinny whimp. Richard did you ever fix your wheel? Mine are supposed to have knock-out inserts. Didn't yours"?

[XJguy]

Cast aluminum does crack, but regular steel rims are not much better, they fail at close to the same rate. Forged aluminum are the kings, better than both but cost it, though youll never need another rim.

As far as DOT, what I read is that there has to be guidlines set. Currently there are not DOT guidlines for beadlocks, so the ones that are on the market cannot be approved or disapproved as such they are not legal for use on the roads. In order for bead locks to get DOT approvel it takes $$$ testing and govt. cooperation. This is my grasp on the whole thing from what I have read.

Just look at APC, they got busted, DOT related. Were their products causing injury? No. While the lights may not be attratvie to all, and may not illuminate as well as OEM, they are no worse than many an old dirty pickups lights. But they got busted, they were claiming to be DOT approved and they were not, they were not tested to be in compliance with specs set forth by the govt. Its just that simple.

XJguy

[JJacobs]

I've seen cast aluminum wheels break at the bead area several times, letting the air out, and once causing the tire to jump off the wheel. I've never seen that with a steel wheel.

As for beadlocks, if you need them then you know it. I live in a state that is very lenient towards 4x4's and have run them often with no problems. I've also not had any problems with bolts loosening and causing leaks, but then they are checked regularly.

XJGuy, Scott from Rockstomper.com has had an award up for a while for proof of a law against beadlocks, as mentioned earlier in the thread. Do some research and tell me what part of beadlocks could be construed as illegal, and show me a statute number. I don't really think taillights have a thing to do with the subject at hand. :rolleyes:

[cbremer]

FMVSS 120, S5.2(c):

"Rim marking. Each rim... shall be marked with... the symbol DOT, constituting a certification by the manufacturer of the rim that the rim complies with all applicable motor vehicle safety standards."

That's the only thing I could find... and it's for vehicles other than passenger cars (such as trucks, buses, motorcycles, etc.)


Other than that, most of the regulations for passenger cars concern recommended rim sizes for a given tire size, which is the responsibility of the tire manufacturer.

At the federal level, I cannot find anything that specifically prohibits a beadlock wheel/rim. Some states may have laws about it, but I've never heard of someone getting a ticket for having beadlocks.

As far as California, the closest I could find is: CVC §27454. "No tire on any vehicle upon any highway shall have on its periphery any block, stud, flange, cleat, ridge, bead, or any other protuberance of metal or wood that projects beyond the tread of the traction surface of the tire."

It refers to the tire, not to anything protruding from or added to the rim.

I think we're safe :D

[Beezil]

I'm just throwing this one out there.....

it could be that some of the folks in the beadlock category couldn't give a rip if beadlocks are legal or not......

[woody]

I would concur.

For my .02 on beadlocks being 'safe' otoh...if they hold pressure and don't promote DW :eek: HOW couldn't they be safe?

Lots of mods and driving peculiarities require specialized maintenance schedules to be 'safe' no matter where the vehicle is driven.

If someone has a hankerin for beadlocks...part of the drill involves continually checking torque/tire pressure. If those two values stayed constant over time, why wouldn't they be 'safe' under any conditions?

[What Rd]

While I haven't bothered to spend any time researching it (because I don't care!), I believe cbremer has the correct approach to this issue.
DOT (apparently) has no standard under which beadlock wheels can be approved.
Who cares?
Only those people in states with either statutes or regulations requiring that their wheels (or some other categorization that would include wheels) be DOT approved. Absent such a requirement, there is no "illegality" to be dealt with.
It's as simple as that.
Issues related to liability in the wake of some sort of catastrophe that a loathsome plaintiff's attorney would claim was due to your non-DOT-approved wheels are another matter. However, that's both speculative and not the focus of this thread, so . . . .

In short - IF you care, do a little research on your state's vehicle code and Department of Transporation (or equivalent) regulations. If you don't find anything requiring your wheels to be DOT approved, then you can once again sleep soundly knowing that the wheel police won't be knocking down your door.

(just a lawyer's opinion - not legal advice!)

= )

[Willis]

All aftermarket wheels are already stamped DOT on them. If you are running a production wheel, converted to beadlock, you have a DOT wheel. If whomever installed your beadlocks did not 'rub out' your DOT stamp on your wheel, you still have it. If one got a ticket, fight the hell out of it. Let them prove to you that it is illegal (you are innocent until proven guilty). Most people that do get tickets for beadlocks (very few) don't fight it, they just pay the ticket.

Now with all these 'simulated beadlock' wheels, how could it really be proven on the side of the road (the cop would have to be very knowledgeable about beadlocks). All you have to do is put a doubt in his mind. Also, point out the DOT stamp. If it did go to court, they would have to prove that your beadlocks are real beadlocks, not fake ones, and prove that beadlocks are illegal. This would mean they would have to impound your vehicle, disassemble your tires from wheels, and prove they are infact real beadlocks. Unless you were faced with a criminal infraction, the traffic courts would not go through such actions.

However, if a beadlock failed, or maybe if you had a blowout, caused an accident, or god forbid a fatality, your wheels would go under scrutiny if noticed, and you could be in a lot of trouble, if infact it was proven that beadlocks are illegal.

On that note, I plan on running beadlocks on the street.

Steve

[Carpenter]

Getting back to the original post. Steel or aluminum, I guess it's up to you. Aluminum is lighter but not that much lighter unless you're comparing them to Hummer beadlocks. My Allieds don't weigh much more, if at all, than my old AR 767's. Some say aluminum is stronger than steel but I've seen a couple of shattered OMF beadlocks, I guess it just depends on wether the wheels are cast or forged. Most steel beadlocks can be repaired well enough to at least get you off the trial, try that with a broken aluminum wheel. As for the legality arguement, my Allieds are stamped DOT right on the rim, good enough for me.

[DeadEyeJ]

Ok, ok. This thread needs some closure. I work 40 hours a week in a tire shop and have for 5 years. I have seen tens of thousands of wheels. I have lifted thousands of wheels by hand. I have spun thousands of wheels on a balancer and seen which ones bend and which ones don't.

1) I have NEVER seen a forged aluminum wheel bend, break, or even so much as wobble on a balancer.

2) I have seen PLENTY of cast aluminum wheels bend and not break, and a handful of them break and not bend.

3) I have seen HUNDREDS of steel wheels bend, both at the bead and in the hub area.

4) Cast aluminum wheels and steel wheels are nearly the same weight in most cases. Forged aluminum wheels, however, are MUCH MUCH lighter than either of the others. As in, about HALF THE WEIGHT of cast aluminum or steel wheels.

Given these facts, I would go with the forged wheels in a heartbeat if my only concern was to have the lightest and strongest (best) product. If money was a big issue, just get the steels and replace one once in a while.:lecture:

[Mich88XJ]

This is getting old. Does anyone know where this urban myth actually came from? Who can show the law that says that beadlocks are illegal? Anyone?

Petersen's 4wheel and offroard were perpetuating the myth the other month in their beadlock layout. They plain out said they were not legal for the road. Don't know where it started but the mags keep it going.

This is where I read it, so I figured it was true. I am going to have to write them, cuz that is crap if they are saying it is true and don't know for sure. That means tons of people just heard this to continue the rumor going. I thought I would get a set for looks, but also cuz they work good, but this turned me away from it. I am going down to the local cop shop and bug them for an answer wheter they are legal or not, but for the most part, I really dont give a ****! If they are so bored they want to pull me over for it, then that is pretty sad.

[Comanche]

http://www.trailready.com/

these are the beadlocks that the pro's are using

[Beezil]

TR's are supposed to be among the best.....

but dollar for dollar.......

once you get above and beyone the 15" 5 bolt rims, the price begine to climb, in fact, its one of those "call us so we can sweet talk ya after we shock you with the price" IIRC, 8 lug 16-17 rims were above the 315 dollar range, so at that price, if it were my money, I get walker evens beadlocks......

have ya seen those?

[Loose_Nuts_Enterprises]

I've got a friend who has broken the TRs. Said they're all cast aluminum. Need to find a forged wheel if you're looking to spend that kind of coin anyway.

Dan