Big Bear Trail condition

[Kejtar]

Well, unless it gets real warm real fast it's going to be interesting :D We ran today gold mountain and john bull and we had a blast but..... we started on the trail at 10 and got off about 9pm.
Also the unmelted snowbanks are responsible for some interesting damage (a small puncture in my roof is one) as well as for the fact that every winch in the group got used more then once and not only for self recovery but for recovery of others as well. Also straps were deployed fairly often :D. I gotta say this though: Tim, even though he had to winch him self couple times, as always put everyone to shame with his open open driving skills.

Anyways, there was couple of close calls (I wish I had my camera with me to take a pic of Ron's beet red face and Artis' pale white face :D) and all I can say is this: even easy trails will be hard due to damage caused by rains as well as unmelted snow banks (I'm pretty sure that in some shaded areas the snow banks will survive).

Remi
P.S. We didn't make it to our adopt a trail as it got REALLY dark REALLY fast.

[Kejtar]

Oh yeah, when the sun goes down it gets REAL cold REAL FAST!

[Lady XJ]

Okay, reservations made. Now what, oh, VERY WARM sleeping gear or a hot body to sleep next to.

Oh yeah, when the sun goes down it gets REAL cold REAL FAST!

[ryurabbit]

Yeah it was an interesting run. Somehow I was put in the leadership position. (thats not supposed to happen, I deliberatly make wrong turns so nobody will do that :laugh3: ) I had the resoponsibilty and privelidge to charge through 1-6' (yeah thats feet) snowbanks and blaze a trail for the rest of us. Tim was amazing as allways (still pisses me off). I will hopefully post pics on tuesday. Anyway the gold mountain trail can be done open/open without to many issues. John bull will be locker/locker or locker winch minimum. Expect mud and snow on any trails that are shaded or on northern facing slopes. Also the trails are overgrown and you will recieve scratches or more on some of them because of the slippery conditions. Cold it will be, around 28-40 degrees at night, but pretty nice during the day (fingers crossed) about 65-75.

All in all, I think it's a little early in the season but its definately going to add quite a few new twists to some trails that have gotten kinda predictable.

[cal]

That will be interesting. I'll be there, open/open, no winch, on 3.55's with 32's. But you know that already. :)

But I have good tow points, no fear of getting stuck, and I dont freak over damage. As long as I dont break an axle I'm good with anything, and I'm not TOO worried about that.

-cal

[rpraterxj]

I saw a trail report from another group that tried to run Gold Mountian on Saturday. They tried runnig from 3N16 towards Big Bear. They reported that they could not make it up the backsdie due to snow and ice. If we run Gold Moutain, we may want to run it from Big Bear towards 3N16, then we can take 3N16 towards Holcomb creek.

just an idea and passing along some info.

Thanks,

Robert

[rpraterxj]

:wave: Oh yeah, one more thing.. we may want to consider bring snow chains. I will have mine with me

[Ed A. Stevens]

It sounds like you guys had a lot of fun (and I am seriously unhappy that I missed the run). The snow adds a dimension that is unpredictable (rocks you cannot see, slip and slide, and "how did that hole get there").

Were there tire tracks on John Bull (or did you go where no man has gone before)?

No photos?

To provide an idea why the AAT program is critical, the priority of USFS funded road repair/maintenance list follows.

Our little trail (2N04) is not even on the list, and is not expected to get any agency attention. The good side of this low priority is that trails & roads not listed are very unlikely to see a grader blade this year (only if demanded for fire prevention and resource protection).



----------------------------------

FRONT COUNTRY / MOUNTAIN TOP
ROAD MAINTENANCE ROAD PRIORITIES

F.Y. 2005

1N09 City Creek
3N14 Coxey
3N16 Holcomb Valley
1N45 Santa Ana River
3N09 Van Dusen Canyon
2N09 Polique Canyon
2N10 Mill Creek
2N75 Ash Meadows
2N37 Miller Canyon
2N13 Snowslide
2N13B Butler Peak
1N02 Coon Creek
1N05 Fish Creek
1N53 Camp Angelus
3N31 Lower Lytle Creek Divide
3N31Y Upper Lytle Creek Divide
1N34 Big Tree Cucamonga
1N35 West Fork Cucamonga
2N58 Middle Fork
3N34 Crab Flats
2N25 Rouse Ranch
2N47 Cleghorn
2N53 Applewhite
3N22 Elliot Ranch
3N33 Slade Canyon
2N01 Broom Flats

With the amount of storm damage to the road system we will be opening these road to make them passable and will do additional work and add additional roads when or if extra funding comes available. Please look over the road list and make any comments as you see fit.

Greg Hoffman
OHV Manager
OHV Volunteer/Adopt-a-trail Programs

----------------------------------

[Captain Ron]

Thought I told you guys I've done my "snow" run for the year :D

What a humiliating experience.

http://64.226.116.160/ron/post/strap1.jpg

Don't expect to see many more pictures like that.

Some others...
http://www.kodakgallery.com/I.jsp?c=byggmfm.joc0dte&x=1&y=prc02c

Some "exciting" moments, minus the audio comentary from Ardis...

http://64.226.116.160/ron/post/tip1.jpg

http://64.226.116.160/ron/post/tip2.jpg

http://64.226.116.160/ron/post/tip3.jpg

http://64.226.116.160/ron/post/tip4.jpg

Got as close as I want to get to going over ass backwards, while going backwards.

Now about that heatwave...

--ron

PS: There were 1, maybe two sets of tracks, appeared to be a few days or maybe more than a week old, but it was obvious that other than that, no one has been able to run the whole trail.

[Kejtar]

http://64.226.116.160/ron/post/tip4.jpg

That picture doesn't do justice. I wanna see the video that Ardis shot :D

[Kejtar]

It sounds like you guys had a lot of fun (and I am seriously unhappy that I missed the run). The snow adds a dimension that is unpredictable (rocks you cannot see, slip and slide, and "how did that hole get there").

Were there tire tracks on John Bull (or did you go where no man has gone before)?

There were but IIRC there was a section of snow where the tire tracks got to it and stopped and just on the other side there was the same thing.
I can vouch for the presence of insible rocks and holes under the snow as I think I found most of them :D

[IMORTL]

well I still plan on being there. I dont have a winch but I have towpoints front and rear and the rear is locked. I dont worry about body damage. I did this on Saturday in Calico (Odessa)
http://www.geocities.com/an_imortl/p1004733.jpg

I have taken Friday and Monday off that weekend. I plan on driving up on Friday to help with Trail maint. But I wont be able to be up there until about 9:30... SO i will need to know where you will be... I can always meet you on the trail.

But I wont be spending the night Friday... I will come home and pick up a buddy and stay at home for the night. I wotn be able to leave until 10:00 or so on Saturday so I wont be up there until 11:30 ish... I will have a 2 way radio with 7 mile range (2 or 3 in the Mtns)...


We will spend the night Saturday and stay sunday... Do I need to do anything? Reserve a camp space? There will be 2 guys (I will sleep in the Jeep - My buddy can rough it)...

It should be fun and cold... Funny - Somehow snowboarding should be included with those 2 words...

Ken

[Kejtar]

well I still plan on being there. I dont have a winch but I have towpoints front and rear and the rear is locked. I dont worry about body damage. I did this on Saturday in Calico (Odessa)
http://www.geocities.com/an_imortl/p1004733.jpg

Oh that little scratch? That's nothing :D

[IMORTL]

Oh that little scratch? That's nothing :D
It was nothing... but I just finished painting it on Friday... :rattle:

Look at the gas cover below...

I also dont have a passenger mirror (thanks to John Bull) ... I also have a dented A- pillar on the passenger side from a Suburban backing into me at Azusa...

[Kejtar]

It was nothing... but I just finished painting it on Friday... :rattle:

Look at the gas cover below...

I also dont have a passenger mirror (thanks to John Bull) ... I also have a dented A- pillar on the passenger side from a Suburban backing into me at Azusa...

Got you beat: ripped off the roof rack TWICE and punctured my roof with it the first time around :) For now duct tape is the fix :D

[Renegade Jpr]

I dont have a single strait pannel on my heep, even the roof is kinda wavey :D

[saki669]

..... and punctured my roof......

:gag: Roof's are overrated anyways. :gag:

[Kejtar]

:gag: Roof's are overrated anyways. :gag:
no they're not... it's what keeps :moon: warm :D

[ryurabbit]

Maybe I came on a little strong. It will be doable and if weather holds up it should be a little nicer up there as well. Gold mountain would have been just a little harder from the 3n16 side but still very doable in comparison to john bull. I think john bull is for the hardcore weelers this early in the season with the right equipment could be done in about 4-6 hours as long as everybody has the proper equipment. The problem lies in the fact that people want to try the hardest trail there vehicle would be able to go on in ideal conditions and see if they can hang. This trip though I do not want to be out there in the darkness in 28-40 degree weather!!! That is why the stringent minimum equipment is in place. I think john bull will be the hardest trail and we got through with effort and the right equipment. I think it will be a little easier in 2 weeks. All the other trail with the exception of holcolmb creek that are open will be doable. I am unsure of holcomb and might run it before the jambo just to see.

p.s. pics are on the way as soon as I figure out this hosting bussiness.

[rpraterxj]

Maybe I came on a little strong. It will be doable and if weather holds up it should be a little nicer up there as well. Gold mountain would have been just a little harder from the 3n16 side but still very doable in comparison to john bull. I think john bull is for the hardcore weelers this early in the season with the right equipment could be done in about 4-6 hours as long as everybody has the proper equipment. The problem lies in the fact that people want to try the hardest trail there vehicle would be able to go on in ideal conditions and see if they can hang. This trip though I do not want to be out there in the darkness in 28-40 degree weather!!! That is why the stringent minimum equipment is in place. I think john bull will be the hardest trail and we got through with effort and the right equipment. I think it will be a little easier in 2 weeks. All the other trail with the exception of holcolmb creek that are open will be doable. I am unsure of holcomb and might run it before the jambo just to see.

p.s. pics are on the way as soon as I figure out this hosting bussiness.

I agree with this viewpoint. I would love to run John Bull, but I am not even going to try it with my open/open, no winch XJ. I will run any other trail. I propose a medium run to include Gold Mountain and Holcomb Creek. We can run either direction.

I am open to any other runs as well.
Just my 2 cents..

Robert

[ryurabbit]

pics of big bear run (http://www.kodakgallery.com/I.jsp?c=ek5j5td.436kcf3h&x=0&y=wfuc5f)

hope this link works

[Kejtar]

pics of big bear run (http://www.kodakgallery.com/I.jsp?c=ek5j5td.436kcf3h&x=0&y=wfuc5f)

hope this link works
It works, but you should mention that when the snow ends pics from Rubicon start as you added them to that album :D

[ryurabbit]

DOH!!!!! Oh well if you cant recognize john bull and gold mountain then dont do them without one of the WFW! WWU? crew with you!!!

P.s. fixed it!

[Bent]

Don't expect to see many more pictures like that.


LOL!!
Don't beat yourself up too bad over it Ron, we all had to take a strap/winch pull at least twice. Well except for Ardis that is. You go girl!! Besides the pic of that particulat stuck would not have happened if we had been on the trail. :gag: No wait, was that before or after the trail vanished into that tough up hill run? Don't ask :bunny: , he'll deny it anyway. I would.

Thanks to all of you that were out, it was a great run. A little on the brutal side but no equipment failures. I'm still finding new dents and scratches.

Hope to see y'all back up there in a couple of weeks,

Tim

PS. Boots and warm socks would be a good thing to have with ya if like yer toes.

[Captain Ron]

...
PS. Boots and warm socks would be a good thing to have with ya if like yer toes.

As opposed to my deck shoes? :D

--ron

[Kejtar]

Boots and warm socks would be a good thing to have with ya if like yer toes.
Actually for the event I'd recommend for people to bring at least 1 more set of boots and plenty sets of dry socks. I know that my feet were ecstatic after I put on dry socks and shoes at the air up spot :D

[Bent]

As opposed to my deck shoes? :D

--ron


GOT TOES?

:shiver:

[cracker]

[QUOTE=ryurabbit] That is why the stringent minimum equipment is in place. [QUOTE]

Are you referring to

[QUOTE=gsequoia] Required Equipment:
Solid recovery points front and rear (tow hooks, shackles/d-rings, receivers), first aid kit, fire extinguisher, snatch strap (no chains, no strap with metal hooks), spare tire and all necessary hardware. [QUOTE]

or is there other stuff that you recommend. I don't have spare driveshafts but I do have all 4 axleshafts. Someone also mentioned chains. Will they be needed very much in two weeks?

[GSequoia]

Bing out whatever you have in the way of spares, it's a good practice to be in!

As for the minimums - the ones you posted are the bare minimums to participate in the trail runs. Traction devices will help a LOT for John Bull from what I hear, I think the best way to tackle that trail is those that want to do it go up to it and see how the first obsticle looks at the current conditions, then they should decide if us little open/open guys can go up it. Basically it's a good setup for this. There's a moderate trail that goes to the nasty section, that will give you an idea of how your rig is performing in the area. Once you get to the nasty section, if you don't / can't do it there is an easy road out, then you can take 3N16 around to the other side. From all the times I've done this the two groups always meet up at just about the same time at the other side.

Sequoia

Sequoia

[Kejtar]

Bing out whatever you have in the way of spares, it's a good practice to be in!

As for the minimums - the ones you posted are the bare minimums to participate in the trail runs. Traction devices will help a LOT for John Bull from what I hear, I think the best way to tackle that trail is those that want to do it go up to it and see how the first obsticle looks at the current conditions, then they should decide if us little open/open guys can go up it. Basically it's a good setup for this. There's a moderate trail that goes to the nasty section, that will give you an idea of how your rig is performing in the area. Once you get to the nasty section, if you don't / can't do it there is an easy road out, then you can take 3N16 around to the other side. From all the times I've done this the two groups always meet up at just about the same time at the other side.

Sequoia

Sequoia
Because of the trail conditions at this point I would say that whoever wants to go on John Bull should have ONE locker at the minimum or a winch. With the hard sections the way they are, giving someone a strap might not be an option (in one section we had to strap two vehicles to each other and then attach to a tree as trail was slippery and soft). Also you cannot judge this trail by looking at the first section only (that ussualy harder climb was really easy actually): one of the problems is the water crossings halfway through and unless you are locked or can winch things will get ugly (things got kind of ugly for the locked rigs anyways).

[cracker]

Thanks for the clarification. I have 33 x 12.5 MTs and ARB lockers front and rear. I'll be there!

-CRACKER

[IMORTL]

I have chains for my 33x 14.50s and they claw like mothers when i have them on... I will have those as well as spare parts... I think i have 2 uni joints...

[casm]

I'm tentatively planning on being there for trail maintenance, but definitely can't make Saturday or Sunday, unfortunately. I'll see how things pan out over the next few days, but (fingers crossed) I'll be able to make it this year.

And no, I do not plan on running John Bull :D

[saki669]

Thought I told you guys I've done my "snow" run for the year :D
What a humiliating experience.
http://64.226.116.160/ron/post/strap1.jpg



Looks like the captain went down with the ship.... :gag:

I'm not into snow runs myself anymore....
http://66.51.215.247/rolled_yellow.jpg

[Blazair]

Looks like the captain went down with the ship.... :gag:

I'm not into snow runs myself anymore....
http://66.51.215.247/rolled_yellow.jpg

Dont get mad at your XJ for trying to make snow angels. ;)

[Kejtar]

Looks like the captain went down with the ship.... :gag:

I'm not into snow runs myself anymore....
http://66.51.215.247/rolled_yellow.jpg
LOL... that's not captain Ron and that wasn't on this run.

[Captain Ron]

Looks like the captain went down with the ship.... :gag:

I'm not into snow runs myself anymore....
http://66.51.215.247/rolled_yellow.jpg

Yuk, Yuk, Yuk.

Mine was humiliating... all this time and never a strap.

Yours looks more like an opportunity for modifications :D

--ron

[saki669]

LOL... that's not captain Ron and that wasn't on this run.

Thats my XJ.

-Captain Kirk

[saki669]

Yuk, Yuk, Yuk.
color]

Yours looks more like an opportunity for modifications :D

--ron

You might say that.......

http://66.51.215.247/john_bull_lorie.jpg

[karstic]

Man I wish I could make this run.

[btraysxj]

Classic Captain.... classic.

Brian T.


Thought I told you guys I've done my "snow" run for the year :D

What a humiliating experience.

http://64.226.116.160/ron/post/strap1.jpg

Don't expect to see many more pictures like that.

Some others...
http://www.kodakgallery.com/I.jsp?c=byggmfm.joc0dte&x=1&y=prc02c

Some "exciting" moments, minus the audio comentary from Ardis...

http://64.226.116.160/ron/post/tip1.jpg

http://64.226.116.160/ron/post/tip2.jpg

http://64.226.116.160/ron/post/tip3.jpg

http://64.226.116.160/ron/post/tip4.jpg

Got as close as I want to get to going over ass backwards, while going backwards.

Now about that heatwave...

--ron

PS: There were 1, maybe two sets of tracks, appeared to be a few days or maybe more than a week old, but it was obvious that other than that, no one has been able to run the whole trail.

[Bent]

I Ran 2N04 yesterday afternoon, mostly dry, no snow on the trail. I've got pix w/ gps coordinates of the more significant areas in need of attention. The overall amount of damage from the winter storms was a lot less than I was expecting.



Arastere Creek (sp) is still flooding the trail as it's still running fairly heavy (by semi arid standards). There is also a pretty nice lake directly behind the Juniper Springs campground. 2N69Y about 1/4 mile beyond J.S. is still good for a snow run as it heads up toward the summit @ Onyx.



Tim