Tie rod flip insert questions?

Hey fellas, I just was led to this link
http://www.goferitoffroad.com/products.htm
and am planning buying one of their tie rods, and am thinkin about adding one of the tie rod flip inserts as well. What do yall think about this product? Is it going to help or hinder me? It basically just flips the tie rod onto the top of the knuckle on drivers side. I realize this would help my steering angles a little, but would it hinder my steering or anything else for that matter? Just curious if anyone here has tried it or has an opinion of it. Thanks!
josh

it's a decent Idea...I haven't heard of anyone having bad handling issues with just the tie-rod flipped. I heard of someone flipping the draglink with that kit, but I don't even see how it's possible, however they said the handling was horrible. So tie-rod only and you should be fine. You will need to weld that in really good, plus cut off your sway bar mounts and reweld them out of the way of the tie-rod. It's a bigger project than it leads itself to be. _nicko_

How close does that place your TRE to the inner lip of your wheel?

Seems that at certain backspacings and diameters that this could be an issue.

I too have conisdered purchasing this rod end flip kit. For only $20 you can do the same thing as a 3" drop pitman arm but also gain clearance for those fragile tie rods as well. After lookin under the ol jeep it seems that the swaybar mount on the passenger side of the axle may be in the way after the flip. A relocation or removal of the mount may be necessary.
Personally, I don't see how the handling could be affected much at all, except that the drag link and track bar would then be at slightly different angles. This should cause some mild bump steer. A 2-3" drop bracket for the track bar would cure even this though.
Also, the kit requires the use of a locknut. I'll bet this is because the rod end does not stick out the bottom of the knuckle as far and you can't use a cotter pin to lock it in place. Use some loctite on this sucker or don't trust it! Good luck, and tell me how you like it.

To do a full flip at both ends you have to use a RHD drag link.
As mentioned there would be bumpsteer unless the trackbar is moved the same amount. That is just common sense but I wonder if it was done by the one that complained of the handling
Shuld be an improvement.
Rusty's sell a complete kit which is the same thing.

DeadEyeJ said:

Personally, I don't see how the handling could be affected much at all, except that the drag link and track bar would then be at slightly different angles. This should cause some mild bump steer. A 2-3" drop bracket for the track bar would cure even this though.

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Could you elaborate on that a bit? The tie rod flip raises the tie rod ends, probably about an inch and a half. It doesn't touch the track bar. Bump steer results when the drag link and the track bar are not parallel. So how can dropping the pitman arm, which just puts the drag link farther out of synch with the track bar, possibly correct for this?

DeadEyeJ said:

I too have conisdered purchasing this rod end flip kit. For only $20 you can do the same thing as a 3" drop pitman arm but also gain clearance for those fragile tie rods as well.

Click to expand...

A drop pitman arm will actually lose tie-rod ground clearance by a bit, in no way will it raise it.

Perhaps I was a bit off with my 2-3" estimate of increased tie rod elevation with the use of a tie rod end flip. But be it 1-1.5" or 4" raising the tie rod ends will change the angle of the drag link, making its angle "flatter" or more parallel to the axle.
The track bar angle so far remains unchanged. Therefore the track bar and drag link are no longer parallel to eachother and thus the dreaded bump steer is caused.
In order to cure this dilemma, i recommended a 2" drop bracket (at the frame end) for the track bar mount, lowering the upper end and thus bringing its angle more parallel to the axle. This should bring the 2 links roughly back to parallel eliminating most if not all of the bump steer.
The only mention I made in my post to a drop pitman arm was to show that the tie rod flip kit was in every way superior to the pitman arm drop. i.e. tie rod flip gives increased ground clearance for the tie rods while still granting the same benefits to your steering angles. I far from recommend a drop pitman arm except as a last resort.
Sorry for the crappy writing skills and the unclear post, it WAS almost midnight after all!

flipping the tie-rod will not do anything to the drag link, only the tie-rod angle compared TO the draglink, which makes no difference. unless you are talking about using a RHD drag link and flipping the other side. No drop pitman arm, or drop trackbar bracket will be needed either way. Just a relocation of the trackbar mount on the axle.

Where do you guys keep getting this idea that I think that the tie rods have anything to do with the track bar? Was I not very concise in my explanation?

1) The tie rod flip kit will raise the drag link.

2) This puts the drag link at a different angle to the track bar.

3) To correct this you can either:
a) lower the top end of the track bar.
or
b) raise the lower end of the track bar, as you suggest.

End of story.

Ok gearwhine, I misread your last post. You didn't mention the track bar being related to the tie rod ends.

You did however, say that raising the tie rod ends would not do anything to the drag link.

But, raising the location where the drag link mounts (i.e. THE TIE ROD) would CERTAINLY have some effect on the drag link angle.

No, I am not angry.

DeadEyeJ said:

You did however, say that raising the tie rod ends would not do anything to the drag link.

But, raising the location where the drag link mounts (i.e. THE TIE ROD) would CERTAINLY have some effect on the drag link angle.

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Okay, I see what you're saying, but you're still not describing it accurately. The stock steering is called an "inverted Y" system. The drag link does not mount to the tie rod -- the drag link runs from the pitman arm to the passenger side steering knuckle. In fact, it is the tie rod that mounts to the drag link, just the opposite of what you wrote.

Dang, you got me there Eagle. You are absolutely right, of course. The drag link mounts to the right knuckle via a rod end. The tie rod mounts to the drag link and the left knuckle.

The fact that the drag link has a tie rod end on it is what was causing my confusion and incorrect terminology. Thank you for bringing peace to this thread again.

DeadEyeJ said:

The fact that the drag link has a tie rod end on it is what was causing my confusion and incorrect terminology.

Click to expand...

Haha, I kinda started to get the feeling that's what was going on. The tie-rod is the bar eagle and I were reffereing to as the tie rod. The "rod end" you are reffering to is called a Tie rod end, but you fixed that. If you brought up "rod end" in a discussion, people would think you are talking about a heim joint rather than a tie rod end.

i have it installed on the truck i just bought, he also fabbed up a steering stabilizer for it. ill get some pics tommrow. It handels fine from what i cant tell, once i get rid of death wobble by getting the long arms soon ill post high speed handleing