Shocking Revelation

[Eagle]

I decided to do some research as follow-up to RTABOADA's question about shock length for a budget boost. Looked into the Monroe and Rancho catalogs (the real -- paper -- catalogs, not the web sites). If you'll pardon the pun, I found the research "absorbing."

A long time ago a Monroe engineer told me that stock shocks are good for up to 2 inches of lift. I accepted that and never researched it. There was no reason -- plenty of people are running budget boosts and stock shocks. Finally decided to see just how the actual data backs this up.

For the "stock" shock I used the Monroe "Gas-Matic LT" series (59xxx), and for the Ranchos I used the non-adjustable 5000 series. Here's what I found, and (again if you'll pardon the pun) I was shocked. The stock shocks, especially the fronts for the '91-plus, are actually longer than the Ranchos, and provide more travel.

Here's the tale of the tape:

Front: Monroe 59xxx vs Rancho 5128. This one gets confusing because Monroe lists one number for '84-'90, and a different number for '91-'01. Rancho lists only one number for '84-'01.

The Monroe 59322 is the number for the XJ/MJ '84-'90.Compressed length = 12.625"
Extended length = 20.125"
Travel = 7.500"

The Rancho 5128 is the number for all year XJ and MJ front. It is listed for 0" thru 3" of lift.Compressed length = 12.750"
Extended length = 20.625"
Travel = 7.875"

Okay, here the Rancho is marginally longer and provides marginally more travel -- but so little that you'd hardly notice the difference. But wait, there's more

The Monroe 59331 is the number for XJ/MJ '91 and newer.Compressed length = 14.375
Extended length = 22.50
Travel = 8.125

The Monroe stock replacement for the '91 and newer is actually longer than the Rancho by about 1.5" and provides more travel. Looks to me like the perfect shock for a budget boost.

Now let's look at the rear. Most of you have XJs, so to keep it simple I'll only address the XJ. Results are similar for the MJ.

The Monroe 59323 is the number for all years XJ.Compressed length = 12.500"
Extended length = 20.375"
Travel = 7.875"

The Rancho 5129 is the number for all years XJ.Compressed length = 12.750"
Extended length = 20.000
Travel = 7.250"

Here, the Rancho is longer when compressed, shorter when extended, and provides 5/8" less travel than the Monroe OEM replacement. The Rancho is listed in the catalog as for 0" thru 3" of lift.

Based on all this, it seems the Monroe "street" replacements are actually better suited for use with budget boosts than the Ranchos, and undoubtedly ride better as well since the Rancho 5000 series has a reputation for being much too stiff.

Okay, you can all wake up now. End of lecture, class is dismissed.

[REDXJ4FUN]

In case some one has said it before, Eagle you the man. I had found similar results when getting rear shocks for my MJ after I broke one off in claton years ago.I was at pepboy looking at thier shock listing book and decided to see if i could find a better shock for the rear. I found one that was a 1/2 inch shorter com pressed and something like 2in longer extened and they only cost at the time 13 bucks. I was happy as a clam.

[Weasel]

That sort of what I have suspected with these so called "fitted for rig rig" shocks that come with most lifts. The company finds whatever fit and is sort of the right length and slaps it into a kit.

I'm measuring and ordering the correct lengths from Bilstein for mine.

[FatXJ]

Were you bored today or something?

[SV1CEC]

Eagle,

I think that the BB people will appreciate your research. Now, I am sure, you could help us poor souls who are running something higher.

About two months ago, I was doing the same research for my XJ. It currently stands at about 6" of lift, and I needed a 15" compressed - 25" extended shocks. After going through some catalogs, I gave up. First of all, not too many options with the bar pins the Cherokee is using. Second, not too many shocks come in these dimensions. The long OMEs (N35L, N36L) seem to be OK for the front, but about 1" short for the rear. Does anyone know if they come with the bar pins though? Would it be possible to remove the bar pin at the rear and add some sort of home-made bar pin eliminator, to gain that one inch?

Needless to say that any help would be greatly appreciated, since it is not easy for me to get things from where I live.

Rgds

[Casper]

Rgds,
If you have taken off your rear sway bar, you can use the mounts for the upper rear shocks. They work great for a BPE, and you can't beat the cost. I am not sure exactly how much would be gained. I know you said you where looking at 1", but I am not sure if that is what you would gain, but it would be close

Casper

[SV1CEC]

Originally posted by Casper
Rgds,
If you have taken off your rear sway bar, you can use the mounts for the upper rear shocks. They work great for a BPE, and you can't beat the cost. I am not sure exactly how much would be gained. I know you said you where looking at 1", but I am not sure if that is what you would gain, but it would be close

Casper

Hi Casper,

I am well aware of this solution, and right now I am trying to find those mounts. My rear sway bar is burried somewhere in the pile of junk-parts at my mechanics store. Hopefully he will find them.

Shocks-wise, I am still awaiting for Mr. Rusty's Bilsteins to arrive (they are send out on May 15th, but he didn't bother sending them with a traceable method, so nobody knows where they are). If they do not arrive within the month, I am getting the OME and will probably apply the sway bar BPE method.

Thanks for reminding this to me.

Rgds

[Eagle]

Originally posted by Casper
Rgds,
If you have taken off your rear sway bar, you can use the mounts for the upper rear shocks. They work great for a BPE, and you can't beat the cost. I am not sure exactly how much would be gained. I know you said you where looking at 1", but I am not sure if that is what you would gain, but it would be close

Casper

This is a very BAD idea. Using these mounts as BPEs turns the upper shock mount 90 degrees, which means the shock is restrained against movement in the direction it most wants to move in.

[marcusguy]

Yep, I agree with Eagle. And I've got the busted shocks to prove it. My rear shocks had the top eyes/mounts snapped off. Worked well before my shocks broke though :)

Marcus

actually I'm still using them in the rear, I just turned them 90*

[SV1CEC]

Originally posted by marcusguy
actually I'm still using them in the rear, I just turned them 90*

Picture of this new setup please???

Rgds

[marcusguy]

http://community.webshots.com/album/56192120CicKsa

Here are some pictures of my jeep. Some are outdated, but the rear top shockmount are the same for now. I'm in the process of building a new upper mount like in some of the other posts. I moved them a little more towards the center because I am running stock rear bumpstops (I was removing the 1" extension I had when the pictures were taken, which is one one bumpstop is gone), and the 12" travel shocks were a little long when compressed and bottomed out in the stock location with stock bumpstops.

As I said, it was a temporary set up until I got some new shock mounts made. I have run it like this for 7 HARD month though with no problems.

Marcus

[Bentonedge]

hehe just from looking i now knwo you have a chrsyler 825. i am so glad i did that axle research. intresting setup.

[Safari Ary]

Originally posted by Casper
Rgds,
If you have taken off your rear sway bar, you can use the mounts for the upper rear shocks. They work great for a BPE, and you can't beat the cost. I am not sure exactly how much would be gained. I know you said you where looking at 1", but I am not sure if that is what you would gain, but it would be close

Casper

Casper, Rgds means regards ;) , his name is John. Just found that too comical to skip over. :angel:

Ary

[SV1CEC]

Originally posted by marcusguy
http://community.webshots.com/album/56192120CicKsa

Here are some pictures of my jeep. Some are outdated, but the rear top shockmount are the same for now. I'm in the process of building a new upper mount like in some of the other posts. I moved them a little more towards the center because I am running stock rear bumpstops (I was removing the 1" extension I had when the pictures were taken, which is one one bumpstop is gone), and the 12" travel shocks were a little long when compressed and bottomed out in the stock location with stock bumpstops.

As I said, it was a temporary set up until I got some new shock mounts made. I have run it like this for 7 HARD month though with no problems.

Marcus

Marcus,

You are running some expensive shocks there!! What are these? Bilsteins 7100?

[Mike from Chile]

Eagle,
XJ community around the world is proud on Naxja members who can share such amount of knowledge as you do.
(hope my english is good enough to be understand)
Mike

[FatXJ]

Yeah BPE's a great for the rear as long as you mount the upper and the lower in the same direction. Otherwise you are better off keeping the par pins.

I mounted mine at a 90 and I had to do some major drilling and hole cutting in the floor to do them right.

I just cut my exhaust off the other day and it now dumps in front of the rear axle so i am thinking that a custom shock hoop with raised lower mounts will be in my future.

[woody]

Originally posted by FatXJ
I just cut my exhaust off the other day and it now dumps in front of the rear axle so i am thinking that a custom shock hoop with raised lower mounts will be in my future.

WARNING! :explosion: DO NOT LEAVE THE EXHAUST GOING STRAIGHT OUT TOWARDS THE FUEL TANK! Put a turndown tip on it. I left mine exiting straight out and BOILED THE FUEL on a roadtrip to tellico :eek:

This is my project for the day...a crossmember for the upper rear mounts. (similar to Ted Z and others) I made mine from 2x2 x .250 square tube, and bought a snazzy new 1/2" bit to bore the holes. (gonna drill a bunch to allow for tuning) it will mount directly above the axle.

One thing I 'wish' I did: I used an old spring perch for raised mounts...I mounted them to my 44 in the OEM LS on rear/ RS on front configuration. While the RS is a lot higher clearance than the OEM mount was, it is still vulnerable to damage. Hindsight I'd have put both mounts on the backside of the axletube.

Great info on the BB shox Eagle...I'll keep that in mind when I BB+ our 88 Limited.

[woody]

Follow up's:

Punching 18 ea 1/2" holes through .250 stock with a harbor-freight drill press is a PITA...got my 12.99 out of that bit.

I got home and painted the crossmember, then spotted the shock (RS-front mounted) hanging down. I sheared a grade 5 :( that was spot welded to the inside of the mount. Grrr at dummy-self.

I think having both shox rear mounted will be a blessing...

One thing leads to another....

[motorman]

I am having trouble visualizing what you are doing Woody.
Do you have any pixs?

BTW, went to Uwharrie yesterday. Great day, not much dust, tacky in most places.

With the lockers I am doing things I didn't do before and am finding that I am "shock" limited so I am going to start playing with that. Traction bar first.....hopefully before Tellico.

Send me a pix of you rear set up if you have it.

Thxs.....mtrman

[marcusguy]

SV1CEC-

Ya, I had to save a while for those 7100's. I'm in the desert a lot camping and watching the baja races. I prerun with the JEEPSPEED guys at most races. After destroying a couple of sets of other shocks, I decided to get something that would last a little longer. I've over heated the 7100's a few times, but fortunately I can put new seals in those myself for a few bucks. The reason I'm working on new front and rear shock mounts is so that I can use dual shocks all around with a lighter valving, keeping them from melting all the time. You guys in so cal should come to a jeepspeed race sometime, it's interesting to see how they set stuff up, and it's interesting to see what breaks and what holds up.

Marcus

[Bones]

One other shock brand to consider is the one from OME (old man emu). They are a long travel shock that netted my XJ a 920 on the 20* RTI ramp. Don't know the specs but I have a set around somewhere that I could put the tape on. I know that they took the travel from bump stop to where the LCA's bound against the axle mount so they were not the limiting factor in the flex.

Bones

It seems so long ago, but here are a couple pics of the OME flexed. Sometimes I wish I was still running it.

http://images.fotki.com/v3/photos/4/42106/123799/flwflx1-vi.jpg

http://images.fotki.com/v4/photos/4/42106/123799/flwflx2-vi.jpg

[SV1CEC]

Bones,

Since yesterday was one month since the day Rusty send me the Bilsteins, and since they still haven't arrived here, according to the Post Office, he can file for a refund. And since I ain't buying anything else from him, I am going to call the local rep of OME and order these. I'll keep you updated about how they perform.

One question, did they come with the bar pins or do you need bar pin eliminators to use them?

[IntrepidXJ]

First off, great research Eagle.

Second, I just installed a BB over the weekend, and am in need of new shocks.

However, I am unable to locate the Monroe "street" replacements you listed above. Any idea where I can get them?

Thanks :)

[marcusguy]

Just FYI IntrepidXJ-

I always got the monroes at sears. Seems like most sears I've been to has them, out on the west coast at least. Just an idea.

Marcus

[IntrepidXJ]

OK, I it could be that I am looking in the wrong place, but I have looked all over Monroe's website and searched thru their catalog online, and I cannot find the 59331 or the 59323 listed anywhere on their site?

[Eagle]

Originally posted by IntrepidXJ
OK, I it could be that I am looking in the wrong place, but I have looked all over Monroe's website and searched thru their catalog online, and I cannot find the 59331 or the 59323 listed anywhere on their site?

I have the 2002 printed Master Catalog and those are the numbers listed for the Cherokee in the Gas-Matic LT series. In my area, Advance Auto carries Monroe and that's where I got the catalog. Even though it says 2002, I got it only a couple of months ago so I assume it's fairly current.

[Bones]

OK, I know this post is starting to gete some age on it but I fianlly found the OME specs.


N35L
Compressed--15.5
extended----26.5
Travel 11"


N36L
compressed--14.5
extended----24.5
Travel 10"


SV1CEC, "One question, did they come with the bar pins or do you need bar pin eliminators to use them?"
They were included.

Bones