Locking hub conversions

[haligan]

i am in need of replacing my front wheel bearings. And as I am sure y'all know that the front comes in a nonservicable setup. So I want to convert the front to locking hubs. The only 2 kits I have found is Warn and Milemarker. Warn seems to be a bit more pricy compared to the Milemarker. Has anyone had any luck with either one. And what are the pros and cons of each. i think I want to go with the Milemarker unless I hear something really bad.

[ChuckD]

Warn's kit is stronger alloy shafts and you have to change the rotor. Milemarker you don't have to change the rotor, but there is no strength advantage.

[Eagle]

I didn't know about the Milemarker conversion. Where can I find info on this?

[ChuckD]

www.Milemarker.com :laugh2:

Air compressors/Jeep conversions

[Eagle]

Chuck I just looked at the Milemarker site. They don't list any hubs for the XJ and the conversions for Jeep are to convert to original QuadraTrac to a part-time 4WD system.

Where on their site should I be looking?

{Edit} Never mind -- I found it. Thanks

[ChuckD]

Originally posted by XJCHUCK72
www.Milemarker.com :laugh2:

Air compressors/Jeep conversions

Click on catalog, then aircompressors/jeepconversions

it's the second from the top on the left side.

TruckFarm, seems to have the same info and a good price. There really isn't much info, I only heard about using the OEM disc's here on the board. You can try searching for it here, there was a small discussion not long ago.

Missed your Edit.

[haligan]

Or you can go to www.truckperformance.com . That is where I found out. and they are cheaper than any where else.

[REDXJ4FUN]

I'm still waiting for the funds o be freed up to do it but I am using the milermarker kit. they come ith crommoly shafts like the warn and do not reuier machining of rotors so i realy like it.buy july i'll have them.

[Goatman]

I don't know anything about the MM hub conversion, but I've seen plenty of their hubs. The MM hubs are generally not as strong as Warn hubs. I have good friends who run MM hubs on purpose to act as a weak link, and they break them somewhat regularly, while the Warn Premium hubs (both internally splined) rarely break.

The 5 on 4.5 hub kit from Warn, and from the pics, also MM, use Bronco II hubs, which are not very strong. The first hub kits that Warn came out with (5 on 4.5) broke a lot of hubs. Warn immediately went back and worked on the hub and now those hubs hold up very well. Quite a few are running 35's in the rocks with those Warn hubs and they aren't breaking. I haven't ever seen or heard about the Mile Marker hub kit, this is the first time, so I haven't heard if the hubs will hold up or not.

If MM uses their Bronco II hub, I would assume it's not very strong, just like when Warn's kit first came out. Considering this, and since Warn hubs are generally stronger than MM hubs anyway, I would spend a few more bucks and stick with the proven product.

My .02

[Judd W. VA]

I installed this kit on my '98 year before last. I hear you talking about prefering the MM kit because does not require replacement of the stock rotors. This is one of the GOOD THINGS about the Warn kit....at least on the later XJ's that use composite rotors. This kit requires earlier Wrangler full cast rotors which are more dimensionally stable- tend not to warp. Mine have not warped a bit in 30k miles with some really hard use.

Have not seen the MM kit so as to make any kind of a direct comparison, but i will tell you that the components of the Warn kit were top quality that included very HD bearings and greasable ujoints...and that bearing hub is a work of beauty!!

Good company support too- Email them and they will send you the installation instructions. Was possibly the best mod i made on my Jeep.

[haligan]

Well I went ahead and did it. I ordered the MM kit. As far as the rotors go I did not mention that I already have after market rotors. They are cross drilled and slotted ones from JCWhitney that are for the wrangler. I also went ahead and ordered a set of front "super axle seals" from quadratec. Has any one used these? Did I waist my money? Any way I will Keep U all updated once they get here and installed.:firedevil

[jeep_cj8]

Pleaes keep us posted as to how the quality of the kit is, ease of installation, etc!

Thanks

Rob Bubala

:cool:

[Judd W. VA]

The reason i ask is that you cannot just install full cast rotors on a hub that had composite previous. Changes the position of the rotor surface to caliper/pad placement. The only way you can do that is to use this kit to accommodate that change...or possibly using earlier style hubs, or maybe a whole Wrangler set-up.

Oh, and so far, slotted or/and cross drilled rotors seem to have had no appreciable effect on stopping power or resistance to warping on Jeeps people say. Seems it just looks cool. Also, the stock rotors that are then cross drilled in disregard to the vents actually tend to crack- need to be indexed...and i hear you got them from JC Whitney.

I just say this because the emphasis on those rotors you have placed may not be that great to have steered you in that particular direction.

Keep us posted. I am interested in how this kit goes together!!

Good luck!!!!

[Jeepin Jason]

FYI: the MM Kit requires the same rotors and rotor mods that the Warn kit does, their instructions even state this.

Somewhere I'll have to dig up pics that a guy sent me who didn't use the full cast rotors on his MM kit when he first installed it. The rotor tore away from the "hat" while he was trying to stop on the road. It wasn't pretty. You also have to machine the center of the rotor hat just as you do for the Warn kit.

FYI: i have the first 2 pages of the MM installation instructions (which list the parts and rotor information) in PDF form if anyone is interested in a copy by email. It's 515KB.

[Beezil]

someone was aying something about spobi on this thread....

I don't know jack about this stuff, but i hope its eagle that's posting spobi.....

that would be awesome!

spankings for eagle.

(fingers crossed)

[Boatwrench]

Judd,
What kind of fuel mileage increase did you experience with the locking hubs?
Tom

[REDXJ4FUN]

Its hard to say how much you may gain in milage. I've heard 1 to 2 mpg but not sure if i belive it but it also depends on the vehical. As far as the kit reqiering machiend rotor thats new to me. I talked to a rep from Milemarker whos personal Daily drive was an XJ on 33s and he told me they didn't requier any thing but then again who knows theres plent of "experts " who don't know $h!t.

[Jeepin Jason]

I'm running manual hubs on my XJ with 35's now, but I cant' really comment on mileage changes because I went to 4.56 gears at the same time that I got hubs. I can say though, that the combo of 4.56's and manual hubs increased my mileage with 33's by about 3mpg, going from 11-12mpg with stock 3.55's to 14-15mpg. Now that I'm running 35's, mileage is back to the 13's though most of the time. That's in mixed driving.

And the MM kit does require boring out the center hole of the rotor, as well as using the full-cast rotors. Again, I've got a .pdf file from MM of the first 2 pages from their instructions, if anyone's interested in a copy via email.

[haligan]

Sorry it took so long to reply. I have been out of town. Any way, to address the rotors, they are the full cast rotors. and yes I do have to have the center of the pilot hole machined outless then a 1/4 of an inch. I need to find a shop here in Memphis that will do that before I start. The rotors I have have been on my Jeep for about 1 and a half years. I love them. I have found that they creat a shorter stopping distance when wet. not to mention i have had the same pads for the same duration of the disks and still have plunty of pad togo. the only reason I have found that the rotors crack is due to extreme heat and then rapid cooling, such as taking a garden hose to them after driving an hour in city traffic.
As far as the kit I will start on it next week. But it looks pretty stout. I have already pulle it out of the box and had a look.

[brcomputer]

BTT


Haligan, how are you liking the MM kit?

I just want to make sure I fully understand all this. If I get the MM or Warn Kit I'll have to get earlier Wrangler (full cast) rotors & have them slightly machined on the inside? What years can I use for the rotors and how much do I have to get machined out?

The warn kit comes with an alloy stub shaft and the milemarker stub shaft isn't alloy? I'd rather have weaker hubs and let those be the fuse, but I don't want the stub shaft to be the weak link.....


Jason, I'd be interested in the instructions to look over...

Judd, what do you mean you can't change out the rotors with out accomodating them? You mean a pad change or what? "only way to do it is to use this kit" ... are you saying the only way I can switch to full cast rotors is to get a MM or Warn kit?


I'm just trying to clear up all this so I can get a better estimate of how much this is actually going to cost me.....

[vintagespeed]

I got my rotors from Tri County Gear in Pomona CA, machined & ready to bolt on. I think they ran me about $200 for the pair.

[vintagespeed]

Originally posted by Goatman
....If MM uses their Bronco II hub, I would assume it's not very strong, just like when Warn's kit first came out. Considering this, and since Warn hubs are generally stronger than MM hubs anyway, I would spend a few more bucks and stick with the proven product.

My .02

Warn hubs are very strong & I never had any problems with my Warn hub conversion, the ONLY down side to the hubs is the price, $85 per for Warn hubs (I bought a spare) for spares I'd carry the Bronco II hubs if they fit.

[Judd W. VA]

Clemson 4 Wheel Drive in Clemson SC has the Wrangler full cast rotors sitting on the shelf modified and ready to go. Did not cost $200/pr as i recall either. Been a while and cannot yet find the receipt. They had offered the best deal i had found a couple years ago when i ordered from them.

I guess after almost three years of use the Warn hubs have worked flawlessly. I know is mucho bucks but since i plan on keeping this '98 indefinately and will see heavy highway and much moderate off road use i am sure will pay off. Now i'm thinking of a trip up to Alaska....

Sure does make a difference in steering heaviness and noise, not to mention some improvement in mpg. Way glad i did the conversion.

[Jeep Biscuit]

Originally posted by XJCHUCK72
Warn's kit is stronger alloy shafts and you have to change the rotor. Milemarker you don't have to change the rotor, but there is no strength advantage.

I don't know where that rumour came from but it is false. Rotors indeed have to be cut on the MM kit.

[brcomputer]

SO I hear lots of Kudos for the Warn kit....

But what about the MM? Does it not come with an alloy outer?

I'd like to have the alloy shafts inner & outer eventually, and run weaker hubs. Much easier to change out a hub .... assuming they go in/out the same way they did on my Bronco....



So we are looking at about $750 for the warn kit plus maybe $175 for rotors. Comes with strong hubs (I'd prefer weak arse ones) and an alloy outer for sure...

Milemarker is about $630 plus the same ~ $175 for rotors. Have potentially weaker hubs and still don't know about the shafts.

I emailed MM about the outers and whether or not they are alloy so hopefully I'll hear from them soon....

[Jeep Biscuit]

Originally posted by brcomputer
SO I hear lots of Kudos for the Warn kit....

But what about the MM? Does it not come with an alloy outer?

I'd like to have the alloy shafts inner & outer eventually, and run weaker hubs. Much easier to change out a hub .... assuming they go in/out the same way they did on my Bronco....



So we are looking at about $750 for the warn kit plus maybe $175 for rotors. Comes with strong hubs (I'd prefer weak arse ones) and an alloy outer for sure...

Milemarker is about $630 plus the same ~ $175 for rotors. Have potentially weaker hubs and still don't know about the shafts.

I emailed MM about the outers and whether or not they are alloy so hopefully I'll hear from them soon....

I don't believe my MM outers are alloy but the hubs are the same thing regardless of kit.

[brcomputer]

OK, so would warn outers work with the MM kit I wonder? Just curious....

I guess I'll have to fork over the major dough for the Warn setup and just try to get some hubs that will act as fuses...

Vintage, the hubs that come with the warn kit are premium? DO they have a standard one that will fit? Will hubs from MM & Superwinch, etc fit the kit as well, or are they specialized Warn hubs just for that kit? I'd think that if the Bronco II hubs fit it then I could get spares from any company I choose ... right?

[Jeep Biscuit]

Originally posted by brcomputer
OK, so would warn outers work with the MM kit I wonder? Just curious....

I guess I'll have to fork over the major dough for the Warn setup and just try to get some hubs that will act as fuses...

Vintage, the hubs that come with the warn kit are premium? DO they have a standard one that will fit? Will hubs from MM & Superwinch, etc fit the kit as well, or are they specialized Warn hubs just for that kit? I'd think that if the Bronco II hubs fit it then I could get spares from any company I choose ... right?


all those questions can be answered here
http://jeepsunlimited.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=401792

[brcomputer]

Ahhhhh..... so I can run whatever fits a ranger/BII ..... excellent .....


$580 ....? Wonder where he got it from?


Guess this means that a ranger rotor would work as well?

[ChuckD]

Originally posted by Jeep Biscuit
I don't know where that rumour came from but it is false. Rotors indeed have to be cut on the MM kit.

Sorry for posting, SPOBI, I believe I read it here on the boards, :eek:


So basically from what I gather from this is that, the MM and Warn share the same parts, but Warn has alloy outer shafts, right? And other than the two unnique parts the rest comes from a Ranger or Bronco II front end.

Anyone have any info on the 5x5.5, I keep hearing this one is supose to be stronger.

I know Goatman has some good info, he knew about the realtion to the Ford parts, but he's probably having funin MOAB already.

[Jeep Biscuit]

Originally posted by XJCHUCK72
Sorry for posting, SPOBI, I believe I read it here on the boards, :eek:


So basically from what I gather from this is that, the MM and Warn share the same parts, but Warn has alloy outer shafts, right? And other than the two unnique parts the rest comes from a Ranger or Bronco II front end.

Anyone have any info on the 5x5.5, I keep hearing this one is supose to be stronger.

I know Goatman has some good info, he knew about the realtion to the Ford parts, but he's probably having funin MOAB already.

That would be correct. Both kits are duplicates dimensionally. The only thing unique to both kits are the outers, spindles and hubs. The rest have generic part numbers that can be sourced at any parts house. (including the locking hubs)

Also, I've heard the rumour of the MM kit not needing machined rotors elsewhere too.

[haligan]

I have been running the mm kit now for about 3 months and have had no problems with it. It makes a big difference on the highway. i have not had a cheance to do much hard wheeln yet so as far as strength goes i am not sure. i am very happy with the kit and do not regret buying it over the warn kit.

[Jeep Biscuit]

Originally posted by haligan
I have been running the mm kit now for about 3 months and have had no problems with it. It makes a big difference on the highway. i have not had a cheance to do much hard wheeln yet so as far as strength goes i am not sure. i am very happy with the kit and do not regret buying it over the warn kit.

And what did yew pay for yours?

[vintagespeed]

The 5 x 4.5 kit uses a hub that is very similar to the Bronco II/Ranger hub, the 5 x 5.5 kit uses standard locking hubs and comes with the Premium hubs I believe.

I spent about $1200 to do the hub conversion on mine (not including the inners), would I do it again? No way. The axles & stubs were way beefy, but it's still a D30. I'd sink that $1200 into a D44.

[brcomputer]

$1200? What did you get?


Warn kit - $800
rotors - $200
spare hubs - $80

What else?

I figure if I use Ranger rotors instead of paying a chunk for new machined Jeep rotors and go with the milemarker kit it should be pretty cheap.... especially if I pickup some ranger hubs as spares....

[vintagespeed]

I also got a long side inner cause I had a disco axleshaft prior to the hub conversion. That was $65 used. I paid $850 for my hub conv. kit at the time. Dont forget about tax.

[brcomputer]

AH ....


Well, NOW we could probably do the same thing for a lot cheaper eh? :D

Especially if one can use stock ranger rotors ...

[haligan]

I paid about 650 for my MM kit. The rotors I paid about 100 for the set and I machined them my self. I just couldnt see paying that much just for the Warn kit alone. especially when I will probably not even push the MM kit to its limits. Yes the added strenght is nice if you wheel hard but I had to be honest with nyself. I just dont need something that much stronger. But i guess if you can wait and save the money or just have it laying around then go for the more expensive(stronger) kit.

[vintagespeed]

Originally posted by brcomputer
AH ....


Well, NOW we could probably do the same thing for a lot cheaper eh? :D

Especially if one can use stock ranger rotors ...

Yeah well we'll see I suppose. I built my front 44 for about the same money.

Enjoy, carry extra balljoints. :D

[XJTripp]

The idea of having manual hubs like older jeeps, scouts,and broncos sounds cool, but what are you really gaining? I know the hubs cost 100-140 each, but they last approx. 15 years. You are going to spend at least $500 to $700 more and you have to get out and lock them. I guess it would be nice if you have a front locker, but now you have packable bearings-soooo - You have to pack them!

[brcomputer]

Well, after my recent carnage, I know I would have liked to be able to just unlock front hubs and not have to try to do a field fix on the front diff.

I wouldn't get the hubs for milegae gains, though I you'll get slightly better mileage.... not to mention you'll have less strain on all the front parts.

My favorite thing about the conversion idea is that I can get some weak hubs and use those as the driveline "fuse" up front....

Oh and I have a locker in the front so.....




ANybody know the cheapest place to get the machined rotors?

http://www.sams4x4store.com/ has the cheapest price I could find for the kit, but doesn't have the rotors in stock. I called Tri Coounty and they want $85 per rotor!? The rotors from Pepboys are less than $25 each so maybe I'll just get some machined locally....

[xj92]

I'd love to have manual hubs because I've gone through 2 front driveshafts in the past from the CV joint drying out and then it vibrates at high speeds. I can't see paying what it costs to convert though. If I were going to spend $1200 on an axle, it wouldn't be my D30.

[brcomputer]

I agree...

MM kit is $580 from Sams ... delivered... you just have to tell them that is how much you are going to pay... ;)

Rotors should be at most $85 a pop.... $50 for both if you can machine them yourself....

I need new rotors anyway so this is all coming at the right time for me..... so I see the cost as $600 ... plus I have several sets of stock hubs (including 2 brand new ones) that I can sell so it comes down to more like $400 for me...

:D