35's, 7" of lift, fender cutting, with 4.11's

[jeepattitude]

Do you think this will be a good setup? Im taking off my cut-out flares and cutting the fenders more. I have 7" of lift right now and running 33's. I want to go bigger tire size when i cut the fenders. So im gonna go up to 35's. I have 4.11's right now, and i did a gear calculater and it came up i should have 4.2. Well they dont make them, so me and my bro think ill be fine with my 4.11's. So what do yall think?

[olivedrabcj7]

im about to go 6-6.5" and 36" swampers........i think you'll be fine if its not a DD

[bgcntry72]

Do you think this will be a good setup? Im taking off my cut-out flares and cutting the fenders more. I have 7" of lift right now and running 33's. I want to go bigger tire size when i cut the fenders. So im gonna go up to 35's. I have 4.11's right now, and i did a gear calculater and it came up i should have 4.2. Well they dont make them, so me and my bro think ill be fine with my 4.11's. So what do yall think?

Wrong.
I have 4.88s with 33s, and will not go bigger without new axles.
Brakes, ball joints, TREs not up to task, IMHO.
With 35s, I would personally go with 5.13s, minimum.
I assume you have an 8.25 axle.
Go outside now and toss that in the dumpster, along with the 30.
You can run 35s on a 30 and an 8.25, and you can drive with your feet.
Neither is a good idea.
Find yourself a 1978 F150 and take the axles out.
Toss a Detroit in the rear and an Electrac up front with the 5.13s, or even 5.38s.
Ought to be good to go.
HTH.

[Gil BullyKatz]

Wrong.
I have 4.88s with 33s, and will not go bigger without new axles.
Brakes, ball joints, TREs not up to task, IMHO.
With 35s, I would personally go with 5.13s, minimum.
I assume you have an 8.25 axle.
Go outside now and toss that in the dumpster, along with the 30.
You can run 35s on a 30 and an 8.25, and you can drive with your feet.
Neither is a good idea.

Agreed...

upgrade axles if you ever plan on pushing the limits of a 35" tire...

You can find a lot of beefier axles with 4.10's already in them...

but with bigger axles, you'll be opening up new cans of worms...

and when you finish that can...

there'll be another one waiting...

and another one after that...

and so forth...

It just never ends...





Fun isn't it?

[jeepattitude]

I think im gonna try to push the limits. I just want some cheap used 35's, so nothing thats gonna cost me too much since im only 18 adn dont have a very good paying job yet. I do plan on going to full-size D44's when i get the money too. But as of now, ill stick with this, and if i break a shaft, i can stick $40 into a new one, and then ill know i gotta stick with 33's and put the 35's on hold till i get bigger axles. Thats just kinda the idea i had in mind.

[Rev Den]

Agree with above...if you have stock axles....BAD IDEA to go over 33's. I would personnaly not lift over 7"...even 7 is to high IMHO. I run 33's with 3.5" and only slight rubbing....trimming is the magic word.


I just read your above post. You have been told...you will not listen....why? The advice above and the rest that your going to get comes from some of the very brightest and most knowledgable folkes when it comes to XJ's. Do what you want...its your Jeep....but you have been warned.


HTH YMMV

Rev

[bgcntry72]

Of course you would live in WI.
Fangoriously delicious.
Beth looks like a dude.

[ChuckD]

He wants to learn the hard way. :banghead:

[Dingo509]

I think im gonna try to push the limits. I just want some cheap used 35's, so nothing thats gonna cost me too much since im only 18 adn dont have a very good paying job yet. I do plan on going to full-size D44's when i get the money too. But as of now, ill stick with this, and if i break a shaft, i can stick $40 into a new one, and then ill know i gotta stick with 33's and put the 35's on hold till i get bigger axles. Thats just kinda the idea i had in mind.

Just remember, the first time you break a shaft and hold up the group, they'll laugh and say "we did stupid things when we were young too."

But the second time you break and hold up everone. They won't be laughing.

We won't talk about the third time.

And yes the third time will happen.
Most of us with big axles speak from our own experience.
You ask what we thought and we've spoken. take the advice and pass it on.

We're all willing to help......... the first time.

Dingo

[BrettM]

your axles will break, all 4 of them.

4.11s will suck

don't ask for advice if you're not willing to take it

[jeepattitude]

Yeah im taking your guys advice. Im not the guy that thinks im all knowing, ive been a member of offroadworld and pavementsucks for like 3 years and have taken lots of adivce. And i take all of yours too. Im gonna wheel at the playground first adn see if it breaks, then if it does i wont hold anyone up on the trail....ill step back down to 33's, spend $40 on a new shaft, and be set. But its worth a try...im usually easy on the pedal, unless i get on a loose dirt steep climb, thats really the only time i really get on it. But im gonna try, and if it goes wrong, then its my fault, and i need to find a doner truck for axles. I was thinking an old fullsize wagoneer with D44's front and rear. So dont think im jsut being a young prick and not listening to what all of you are saying, because i am. And im sure i can borrow my buddys 35's, then i can test them out for free. and only will be spending for a new shaft is it blows.

[BrettM]

Yeah im taking your guys advice....And i take all of yours too. ...dont think im jsut being a young prick and not listening to what all of you are saying, because i am.

But its worth a try...But im gonna try

these statements are not consistent with each other.

[cracker]

I just went from 31x10.5 with 4.10 gears to 33x12.5 with the same gears (4.10) and I CANNOT believe how much harder it is to stop and start. I would like to go to 35's BUT ONLY when I get the D44 up with 4.88 gears.

[loop]

higher gears than what is properly needed causes excessive strain on your tranny....that's not a cheap $40 fix

higher gears than what is proper for whatever size tire used also causes one to use more momentum than what is ideal for obstacles leading to increased likelyhood of broken parts

i run 4.10's with 31's and wish i had lower gears. i do not think that your proposed setup is a good one . stick with 33's

[Bloose]

Don't be so hard on the guy. I know at least one person in CO that runs a 30 and 8.25 with 35's. I think both could live with them. The only real problem with the 8.25 is that you can only go to 4.56 and not 4.88 which would be better for 35's (4.11 is not enough). I am planning to go to 35's in the future but may go 9" and dump the 8.25 at that point. Then again I may not, I may do just as this lad and try it and see what happens. After all I have a lot of maney in my 8.25's ARB. The big detraction of an 8.25 is the C clip, which for the most part isn't a big deal, until you have to replace a shaft on the trail. If you have a non c clip axle an axle swap is a quick job. If you have c-clips, it's a pretty messy ordeal. So in the interest of speeding up possible repairs I may go 9" or 44. But my big question is, how many broken 8.25's have there been out on the trail?

B-loose

[JLane99XJ]

Do you think this will be a good setup? Im taking off my cut-out flares and cutting the fenders more. I have 7" of lift right now and running 33's. I want to go bigger tire size when i cut the fenders. So im gonna go up to 35's. I have 4.11's right now, and i did a gear calculater and it came up i should have 4.2. Well they dont make them, so me and my bro think ill be fine with my 4.11's. So what do yall think?

what gear calc did u use?
use the one on Superior Axle & Gear dot com
by stock tire size in inches p225=~27" to 35" gears should be 4.6~
if your stock gear was 3.55 (assume/most common)
so 4.56 would be the closest fit.
But since you are already @ 4.11 that shouldn't be bad but lower would be better.
i'm doin 4.88s for 35s
mainly bc i know i'll get inch-itis ;)

[jammerjamesharmon]

It's not so bad!!!!!!!!!!!! I ran this very set up for 3 years and had no problems, that is with 410 and 35", the only difference is I did have a Dana 44 in the rear. No hard rock wheeling, but never broke anything. The gears are great off road, but on the highway is liveable, but not desireable. The worst part about this set up is the brakes. That is totally unacceptable. So I put the WJ knuckles, calipers, rotors, linkage, booster, etc and now stops great. That cost money that could go to bigger axles though.

Bottom line is now for piece of mind, went with 488's when my rear end pinion gave way (this is not brakage) and Superior axles in the front D30. The money I got invested in these axles, I could have gotten a 9" in the rear and D44 in front...................... Just think about the brakes, these are very important, and most folks, including myself tend to forget these until they drive the beast.

Check out my rig here www.geocities.com/jammerjamesharmon

[BillR]

The others are CORRECT. I'm running 35s on 4:88s, and it's not enough gear. 5:13s would be MUCH better. I get away with it on the trail because I have a TeraLow t-case.
I ran 33s with 4:11s for a short time, and it SUCKED! The Jeep had no power on the street. I couldn't get out of my own way! I couldn't imagine running 35s on those gears. :gag:

[BillR]

Wrong.
I have 4.88s with 33s, and will not go bigger without new axles.
Brakes, ball joints, TREs not up to task, IMHO.
With 35s, I would personally go with 5.13s, minimum.
I assume you have an 8.25 axle.
Go outside now and toss that in the dumpster, along with the 30.
You can run 35s on a 30 and an 8.25, and you can drive with your feet.
Neither is a good idea.
Find yourself a 1978 F150 and take the axles out.
Toss a Detroit in the rear and an Electrac up front with the 5.13s, or even 5.38s.
Ought to be good to go.
HTH.
Dead-on advice.

[043500]

You guys are so full of yourselves...sheesh. A handful of folks here have said "Don't so it....you'll break everything". I say HAH! We ALL started somewhere...and had to learn what breaks and what doesn't. And EVERYONE is different to the point where this kid may surprise you and not break anything.

It is my opinion that with some finesse a D-30 can live well with 35's...the u-joints being the weak point (unless you at least have 297's). A VERY close friend of mine...some of you may know him as yellowxj??....had a D-30 with 36" swampers for over 2 years...in that 2 year span he broke a few 260 u-joints...but it lived well until he started to get into some more serious terrain and the ring gear sheared. Now granted yes he broke...but for getting it all together etc...2 years is a long time.

And as for the 8.25 (if he has it) get some 29 spline shafts and the right side gears (or locker) and run it. LOTS of folks run 35's on the D-30/8.25 combo...hell LOTS of folks run the D-30/35 combo. Are these the best combination of axles for 35" tires...NO...of course not. But you guys make it sound like he's gonna snap something in his driveway for pete's sake...ease up.

And as for 4.11's....4.88's would be about ideal (you're all crazy saying 5.13's with 35's and a 6 cyl but that's my opinion)....BUT the 4.11's although not great...will get you there.

There are so many folks running 3.07's with 35's it's sickening...at least he;s not going to do that...again ...ease up.

You don't need D-60's with 35's...and the D-30/8.25 combo can live well with 35's with some beefing ...LOTS less $$ than swapping axles (usually), and not being STOOPID on the go-pedal. And just to clarify...I agree the stock axles aren;t the best combo for 35's and hard wheeling...but we all know they will work and can last quite a while if you drive right.

[ChuckD]

You guys are so full of yourselves...sheesh. A handful of folks here have said "Don't so it....you'll break everything". I say HAH! We ALL started somewhere...and had to learn what breaks and what doesn't. And EVERYONE is different to the point where this kid may surprise you and not break anything.

It is my opinion that with some finesse a D-30 can live well with 35's...the u-joints being the weak point (unless you at least have 297's). A VERY close friend of mine...some of you may know him as yellowxj??....had a D-30 with 36" swampers for over 2 years...in that 2 year span he broke a few 260 u-joints...but it lived well until he started to get into some more serious terrain and the ring gear sheared. Now granted yes he broke...but for getting it all together etc...2 years is a long time.

And as for the 8.25 (if he has it) get some 29 spline shafts and the right side gears (or locker) and run it. LOTS of folks run 35's on the D-30/8.25 combo...hell LOTS of folks run the D-30/35 combo. Are these the best combination of axles for 35" tires...NO...of course not. But you guys make it sound like he's gonna snap something in his driveway for pete's sake...ease up.

And as for 4.11's....4.88's would be about ideal (you're all crazy saying 5.13's with 35's and a 6 cyl but that's my opinion)....BUT the 4.11's although not great...will get you there.

There are so many folks running 3.07's with 35's it's sickening...at least he;s not going to do that...again ...ease up.

You don't need D-60's with 35's...and the D-30/8.25 combo can live well with 35's with some beefing ...LOTS less $$ than swapping axles (usually), and not being STOOPID on the go-pedal. And just to clarify...I agree the stock axles aren;t the best combo for 35's and hard wheeling...but we all know they will work and can last quite a while if you drive right.


I had a IM with the kid when this started. He admitted to me that you busted his D30 spiders with the 33's he has. From tht evidence he has a pretty heavy foot. He'll probably argue that he doesn't.

Every thread that comes up, people are in denial on their gear ratio. They ask the question but don't want to hear the truth. I'll admit, 4.10 can work with 33's but 35's no way. As mentioned before, I'm glad I don;t ahve to wheel with him and I pray for those that do.

[BillR]

Every thread that comes up, people are in denial on their gear ratio. They ask the question but don't want to hear the truth. I'll admit, 4.10 can work with 33's but 35's no way. As mentioned before, I'm glad I don;t ahve to wheel with him and I pray for those that do.
It never changes , huh? :laugh3:
4:11s may work with 33s IF you have a manual and IF you live near sea-level. I just know that combo SUCKED up here at 7000 ft with my auto. :gag:
I wouldn't want to be behind him on a trail either... :repair:

[Roxtar]

Jeeptude, face it. With your setup; lots of lift, big tires, and very little consideration for what's behind it, you're obviously trying to look good at the expense of working good. Fine for the mall but slightly problematic on the trail. I can only imagine the rest of your setup, considering what SHOULD be done to properly go to 7" of lift (whether there's EVER a reason to go to that much lift is an issue by itself)
You asked for advice with your mind already made up.
We wish you the best.
Good luck.

[Ludakris]

honestly.. I tend to go in the middle on these debates.. as I am in the middle age wise.. usually... The 8.25 is constantly getting a bad rap, with 29spline axles it should hold up to 35's. The D30 has been known to hold up to much more than 35's. 4.10 gears will not be optimal on the street.. but if you searched you would know that. But the D44 crowd is growing.. I dont know were the "IF you dont have D44's your junk" attitude came from, but at 18 on a budget, keep your foot out of and think when you wheel... if you can keep stuff from braking, you'll be farther ahead..
On the issue of the lift and trimming? I should hope you dont need to trim with 7" of lift.. that is a rediculous amount of lift for your set up.

[Roxtar]

I think the point you're missing is this; if you're 18 and on a budget don't go to 35s with 7" of lift.
Go with a properly set up 3.5" of lift, trim, 31s or 32s, lockers, and learn to drive. Not near as sexy but 100% more capable of actually doing what it's supposed to.

[NHxj4x4]

OK, I have my flame suit on......

What is is asking is actually what I have right now. I run 7" of lift, 35x12.5's, HP D30 TRUSSED up front, 297x shafts, Ford 8.8 rear. BW Flares.

OK, it's been 1 year, and I did wheel it a few times before my engine quit (oil pump went) anyway, it was great on the trails, I didn't break anything. As far as on the street, I'm not sure why everyone says it's a dog, it's really not. Around town was fine, plenty of get up and go with the AW4. On the highway 65-70 on cruise control was comfortable, and frankly I would never need to go faster in it than that.

I suppose I have a little more going for me with the HP 30, 297x shafts, and of course the beefy as a mother 8.8, but as far as the gearing goes, really, not that bad IMO. Would I like 5.13's? Yes I would, but with my HP 30 having 4.10's already, as well as the 8.8, I really couldn't afford the $1000 for so to get the 5.13's in there. I'm happy with it.

I wouldn't run the D30 without the 297x shafts though, when you look at the stock shafts (forgot the #) and the 297's next to each other.....BIG difference, in the shaft and the U-Joint size. Also a nice truss to the 30 would help no matter what the shaft.

I say go for it dude, you can always upgrade later.

Todd

[CRASH]

and of course the beefy as a mother 8.8,
Todd

I think the practical limit for 8.8's is somewhere between 33 and 35.

"Beefy as a mother" and 8.8 should not be used in the same sentence togehter.

I've tried to polish the 8.8 turd for all it's worth. Broken housings and broken ARB's have been my reward.

CRASH

[Roxtar]

OK, I have my flame suit on......

What is is asking is actually what I have right now. I run 7" of lift, 35x12.5's, HP D30 TRUSSED up front, 297x shafts, Ford 8.8 rear. BW Flares.

OK, it's been 1 year, and I did wheel it a few times before my engine quit (oil pump went) anyway, it was great on the trails, I didn't break anything. As far as on the street, I'm not sure why everyone says it's a dog, it's really not. Around town was fine, plenty of get up and go with the AW4. On the highway 65-70 on cruise control was comfortable, and frankly I would never need to go faster in it than that.

I suppose I have a little more going for me with the HP 30, 297x shafts, and of course the beefy as a mother 8.8, but as far as the gearing goes, really, not that bad IMO. Would I like 5.13's? Yes I would, but with my HP 30 having 4.10's already, as well as the 8.8, I really couldn't afford the $1000 for so to get the 5.13's in there. I'm happy with it.

I wouldn't run the D30 without the 297x shafts though, when you look at the stock shafts (forgot the #) and the 297's next to each other.....BIG difference, in the shaft and the U-Joint size. Also a nice truss to the 30 would help no matter what the shaft.

I say go for it dude, you can always upgrade later.

ToddI have the same setup other than full width D60s front and back, IROK 38s, and a tube chassis.
Other than the gearing and lift, what is the similarity between his rig and yours?

[NHxj4x4]

I have the same setup other than full width D60s front and back, IROK 38s, and a tube chassis.
Other than the gearing and lift, what is the similarity between his rig and yours?

Mainly the gearing, and the 30 (although mine is slightly more built)

I was trying to say that the gearing mainly feels fine, and that I haven't expirenced any breakage due to the 30.

[bgcntry72]

I think the point you're missing is this; if you're 18 and on a budget don't go to 35s with 7" of lift.
Go with a properly set up 3.5" of lift, trim, 31s or 32s, lockers, and learn to drive. Not near as sexy but 100% more capable of actually doing what it's supposed to.

x2.
I have ~4.5" lift, with 33s, 4.88s, cut flares, and lockers.
Compared to the majority of the rigs I wheel with, mine looks like a stocker.
I am secure enough in the size of my genitals to drive a rig that WORKS more impressively than it LOOKS. Perhaps someday you will understand.
I can do 95 mph if I want to, albeit for short bursts, and I can set the cruise at 75 mph and turn 2800-2900 rpm all day while getting 14 mpg.
Not as impressive at the mall, but it gets the job done, ask around.
when I rolled the last rig, I lowered the new one ~2".
I assume you want to run 7" with short arms?
Who needs drop brackets, right?
If you want advice on how to LOOK hardcore for a couple of hundred bucks, then you are in the wrong place.
No one here wants to pay for the same parts twice, or the same mod 3 times.
Take the advice and drink it in.

Yes I would, but with my HP 30 having 4.10's already, as well as the 8.8, I really couldn't afford the $1000 for so to get the 5.13's in there.

It would cost a LOAD more than $1000 to get a set of 5.13s into an HP30.
YMWNV.

[85xjwoody]

A buddy of mine that I go wheeling with has a 96 two door with 35 inch boggers and 6 inches of lift and a little trimming. He has lockers front and rear with the d30 and 8.25. The only thing that I have seen him break is his rear driveshaft straps. He beats his truck very hard and dives deep with it. I think that he should be alright with what he wants to go with. I also think that 7 inches of lift is pretty tall. Go lower and do some trimming. I would go with the 4.56 gears myself. I run 3 inches of lift with 31's and a four cylinder in my 85 wagoneer with 3.73 gears and it does the job for me.

[Danno]

Yeah, give the guy some slack. He probably doesn't have the $$$ right now to do it up the Bling Bling way. Been there done that, for sure. I must say that I prefer it the way it is now where I can afford to do it right when I want to. :wierd:
That said, 35's are too tall for 4.11 gears in the real world. I was running 32's with 4.56 and when I went to 36's it was then really too tall. I just installed an Atlas 4.3 to address that problem.
You are correct in the "opening the can of worms".....more like venomous snakes. I wanted to go to 36's so of course to do it right meant a new D44 front axle and a rear Ford 9" Currie HP free floater. My wife asked me how much I had spent on the new axles and I told her I really wasn't sure. I wasn't lying cuz I REALLY didn't WANT to know! :laugh3: Nobody ever said this was a cheap hobby. Not when you go above stock heighth.

[NHxj4x4]

I think the practical limit for 8.8's is somewhere between 33 and 35.

"Beefy as a mother" and 8.8 should not be used in the same sentence togehter.

I've tried to polish the 8.8 turd for all it's worth. Broken housings and broken ARB's have been my reward.

CRASH

Fair enough, that's your opinion. Compared to the 35, it's Beefy as a Mother. Yes the housing has it's spots of weakness, mainly because of the silly plug welds on the tubes. I ran a full bead around the tubes, hopefully that will prevent a twist. I think with 35's (and I'll never go above 35's) that the 8.8 is a great axle, and should always be placed above the bolt on 44 that many tend to desire and hold in high regard. I've seen the stock XJ 44's go for $500 on ebay, which just upsets me when I paid $220 for my 8.8 with 30K on it, disc brakes, 4.10's and a LSD (all-be-it crappy) Just took an extra day of work to get it all cleaned, and the perches and shock mounts on there, but that was well worth it.

Todd

[bgcntry72]

Yeah, give the guy some slack. He probably doesn't have the $$$ right now to do it up the Bling Bling way.

Good idea to advise someone without $$$ to put 35s on stock axles.
27 splines, 260 ujoints, and 35" tires with 4.10 gears.
Good to see you are looking out for his financial well being. :rolleyes:

[Ludakris]

Good idea to advise someone without $$$ to put 35s on stock axles.
27 splines, 260 ujoints, and 35" tires with 4.10 gears.
Good to see you are looking out for his financial well being. :rolleyes:


You're right, we should just tell him he's an idiot and needs to spend $10K or else he cant go wheeling with those that have. Break his spirit while he's still young.

[BrettM]

You're right, we should just tell him he's an idiot and needs to spend $10K or else he cant go wheeling with those that have. Break his spirit while he's still young.
sometimes the truth hurts.


you gotta pay to play, and to run 35s effectively it's gonna cost a couple grand, not nearly 10k if you can do some work yourself. there is nothing to prevent him from having tons of fun with 31s.

[Roxtar]

You're right, we should just tell him he's an idiot and needs to spend $10K or else he cant go wheeling with those that have. Break his spirit while he's still young.I guess expecting someone to actually read a thread before replying is asking a lot.
See post #6,9,14,21,25,30,&34 in this thread for your answer.
No one is telling him he has to spend more or not wheel. The advice (post# 25) is telling him to not go to 35s & 7" just because it looks cool.
He asked if he should go to 35s w/ 7" lift with stock gearing, stock axles, and (I'm guessing here) stock driveline.
The common, and correct, response was, "NO".

[Ludakris]

I guess expecting someone to actually read a thread before replying is asking a lot.
See post #6,9,14,21,25,30,&34 in this thread for your answer.
No one is telling him he has to spend more or not wheel. The advice (post# 25) is telling him to not go to 35s & 7" just because it looks cool.
He asked if he should go to 35s w/ 7" lift with stock gearing, stock axles, and (I'm guessing here) stock driveline.
The common, and correct, response was, "NO".


you're right, my other posts clearly show that I did not read whats going on here. I am just saying that you could do a survey of guys running 35's and I would bet there are alot running fairly stock axles and NOT breaking. I understand its not Optimal.. but its budget friendly, I just hate how alot of the old guys here tend to throw out a NO without any gray area, and then scare guys out of doing anything to their rigs because of the costs. try to step into the way back machine and remember when you were young..
and keep up the post counting...

[Roxtar]

but its budget friendly,What part of buying 35" tires is budget friendly? What part of fixing the likely breakage caused by an underbuilt rig moving up to 35s is budget friendly?
I'm asking because I'm currently going from 33s to 35s and I'm finding them to be a little pricy. Even without including the recommended extra build up.

Lud, I understand what your saying about popping the boy's bubble. I'm not on the, "he needs to spend..... to do it right" bandwagon. I'm saying he shouldn't spend the money on bigger new tires when he's probably underbuilt for the 33s he's now running. The fact that his funds are limited makes it even more important to spend wisely. The price of admission to the 35" club is high and, most likely in this case, unnecessary. Hell, I've never needed more than 33s till BOTW.
Jeeptude, spend your avail funds on whatever needs upgrading most. It ain't your tires.

[043500]

What it all boils down to is most folks (here anyways) seem to think if you don't have the 'perfect setup' you don't belong on the trails...at least not THEIR trails. I tend to laugh at those folks when I wheel with them because they don't really seem to have fun.

Is it SAFE to wheel with an inexperienced 18 year old kid with big lift and big tires...maybe...maybe not. But I love how everyone is an expert when it is spoken about on an internet message board. ESPECIALLY when it's most often the so called 'experienced' drivers who are the dumbest. I;ve seen too many of these 'know-it-alls' on the trails get to an obstacle and keep nailing it until they either break the rig or someone gets hurt.

Now I'm not knocking any one particular person because I know very few folks here on a "FOR REAL" basis. But why do you care if someone doesn;t have the right gear ratio? Give them the advice and move on.

The right/wrong gear ratio doesn't make them unsafe. And having axles that are a little less the qualified for the tires or the terrain doesn't make them unsafe...just means they may break something...big whoop.

As for the safety feature...school them...don't bash them and try to get them to not build something. Show them how to drive it safely instead of poking fun at them or saying things like "I pray for whoever wheels with them"...that's just a pisspoor attitude and to me THAT'S what doesn't belong on the trails.

[wescam]

Perhaps a less expensive alternative is to spend money on the vehicle as it is now with quality protection (skids all around, rails) and recovery (winch, maybe aftermarket bumpers front and rear).

This way you have a moderate amount of lift, a decent off road tire size, and can wheel where a taller, but less sturdy/prepared rig can go.

FWIW, I regeared to 4.56 to run 32" tires, so you don't want my opinion on gearing the rig as you described it in the original thread.

Just be safe with whatever you do.

[BrettM]

the bottom line here is what is the goal?

if the goal is a "cool big XJ" on 35s (show truck) then yes, go for it, buying 35s will be a good use of your money and will accomplish your goal. however a show truck does not belong on the trail and is irresponsible to bring it on the trail where it will break.

if the goal is to gain offroad capability and/or have more fun this could be much better accomplished by leaving it on 33s and investing the money in lockers, a better rear axle, 297/760 shafts for the front, gears, skids, etc.

[ChuckD]

As for the safety feature...school them...don't bash them and try to get them to not build something. Show them how to drive it safely instead of poking fun at them or saying things like "I pray for whoever wheels with them"...that's just a pisspoor attitude and to me THAT'S what doesn't belong on the trails.


Great, go wheel with him with his 35's and D35. I'll pray that you have a fun time fixing his junk. You better make sure you bring some extra spares, he'll need them.

[BillR]

But why do you care if someone doesn;t have the right gear ratio? Give them the advice and move on.

The right/wrong gear ratio doesn't make them unsafe. And having axles that are a little less the qualified for the tires or the terrain doesn't make them unsafe...just means they may break something...big whoop.

I think the point here is when it comes to running in a group. If he's running by himself like that, you're right; "big whoop". HOWEVER, if he's running with a group of wheelers and driving an OBVIOUSLY underbuilt rig, then it becomes the problem of everyone in the group. I'd never leave anyone on the trail, but I'd be more than a bit peeved if the guy breaks and holds the group up when a little common sense and "correct" parts could've possibly avoided it.
During BOTW here in AZ, we came upon a very stuck TJ that was on a trail well beyond his OR his rig's capability. After Mark Hinkley got him out of the jam, HE WANTED TO FOLLOW US FURTHER! :gag: He was politely told to turn around, and that he was not equipped for this type of trail. He did the smart thing and LISTENED!
Putting 35s on stock axles and nearly-stock gearing IS going to cause problems if he leaves the mall parking lot. After a time or two of holding up a group of wheelers, I doubt he'd be welcome to come along anymore.
If he's cool with that and likes to run alone, have fun. :wave:

[Big Red]

Wrong.
I have 4.88s with 33s, and will not go bigger without new axles.
Brakes, ball joints, TREs not up to task, IMHO.
With 35s, I would personally go with 5.13s, minimum.
I assume you have an 8.25 axle.
Go outside now and toss that in the dumpster, along with the 30.
You can run 35s on a 30 and an 8.25, and you can drive with your feet.
Neither is a good idea.
Find yourself a 1978 F150 and take the axles out.
Toss a Detroit in the rear and an Electrac up front with the 5.13s, or even 5.38s.
Ought to be good to go.
HTH.

Sounds good, but why not go with 5.38/5.43 gears in them. That's what I was advised to do and cannot wait to wheel my jeep and drive it with the new found power I should have after 35's and 4.56 gears in my hp30/44.

A hp44/9" combo are great axles to work with. I wish I could afford a selectable locker in my hp44, but I'm going with a detroit for simplicity and dependability and will probably do a ram assist to help with steering my 35's or 37's.


I think the point you're missing is this; if you're 18 and on a budget don't go to 35s with 7" of lift.
Go with a properly set up 3.5" of lift, trim, 31s or 32s, lockers, and learn to drive. Not near as sexy but 100% more capable of actually doing what it's supposed to.

Right on. A 3 to 4" lift and 31's or 32's make a good dd and wheeler on a budget. Many people, myself included, would have wished they stayed with 33's and 5" lift or so with the hp30/44 or hp30/29 spline 8.25 and would be o.k. I wanted to go bigger, but paid for it. It is not cheap and not for the faint of heart. A hp30/29 spline 8.25 can live with 35's if you take it easy and don't beat on it especially in FL or other places in the mud where it is alot more forgiving then the rock crawling trails here in Cali. Just don't sink lots of $ into those stock axles. If you do, hopefully you will be able to sell them and get back some of your $ when you want to move up to 44's from and rear or hp44/9" etc.


I think the practical limit for 8.8's is somewhere between 33 and 35.

"Beefy as a mother" and 8.8 should not be used in the same sentence togehter.

I've tried to polish the 8.8 turd for all it's worth. Broken housings and broken ARB's have been my reward.

CRASH

But Crash, you wheel your XJ like crazy and it has held up well. The 8.8 is a good axle, but it does have a limit. I think it can be run on 33's or 35's like you say. Anything bigger than 35's, or if you want it to be more reliable, step up to a ford 9" and run 35 spline alloy shafts. Look at the 9" stats compared to a dana 44 or 60.

http://www.sunrayengineering.com/nine.html

[QUOTE=bgcntry72]x2.
I have ~4.5" lift, with 33s, 4.88s, cut flares, and lockers.
Compared to the majority of the rigs I wheel with, mine looks like a stocker.
I am secure enough in the size of my genitals to drive a rig that WORKS more impressively than it LOOKS. Perhaps someday you will understand.
I can do 95 mph if I want to, albeit for short bursts, and I can set the cruise at 75 mph and turn 2800-2900 rpm all day while getting 14 mpg.
Not as impressive at the mall, but it gets the job done, ask around.
when I rolled the last rig, I lowered the new one ~2".
I assume you want to run 7" with short arms?
Who needs drop brackets, right?
If you want advice on how to LOOK hardcore for a couple of hundred bucks, then you are in the wrong place.
No one here wants to pay for the same parts twice, or the same mod 3 times.
QUOTE]

Run what works. If you are a starving student in college or high school run your nearly stock XJ with a 3" lift and 31's and have some fun. When you get older and have a better job then you can play with the big boys and get those big axles and tires. :laugh3:


Troy

[red91]

What it all boils down to is most folks (here anyways) seem to think if you don't have the 'perfect setup' you don't belong on the trails...at least not THEIR trails.

I Disagree. Most of the guys around here would winch you outta a bind. I'd go with them, and feel comfortable.


Is it SAFE to wheel with an inexperienced 18 year old kid with big lift and big tires...maybe...maybe not

I'm going with the NOT side of this. If he's inexperienced, and over his head, he needs to be in the passenger seat.


But I love how everyone is an expert when it is spoken about on an internet message board. ESPECIALLY when it's most often the so called 'experienced' drivers who are the dumbest.

Your not adept at making new friends, are YOU?



Now I'm not knocking any one particular person because I know very few folks here on a "FOR REAL" basis. But why do you care if someone doesn;t have the right gear ratio?

The right/wrong gear ratio doesn't make them unsafe. And having axles that are a little less the qualified for the tires or the terrain doesn't make them unsafe...just means they may break something...big whoop.

therin lies the answer to your question...I don't want to have to do repairs, or winch, or anything else simply becuase they WERE NOT prepared.

While I tend to dislike the "boyscout" mentality...BEING PREPARED on the trail is your best friend.

[CRASH]

But Crash, you wheel your XJ like crazy and it has held up well.
Troy


Except for cracked center-sections, spun tubes, and a broken ARB it has been great!

I'm ready for a Tera or ProRock.

40 spline sounds about right.

CRASH

[Big Red]

Except for cracked center-sections, spun tubes, and a broken ARB it has been great!

I'm ready for a Tera or ProRock.

40 spline sounds about right.

CRASH

Are you still spinning tubes since you rewelded your diff to the axle tubes? I kind of went a bit over kill and had Ryan build me a 35 spline 9". I rather pay more now than keep breaking down and then upgrade later. I have yet to have a breakdown of any kind on 2 Con trips and 1 Fordyce trip on my hp30 arb 4.56/xj 44 detroit 4.56 on 35" MTRs, but I felt it was a matter of time so I started breaking out the cc. :laugh3:

Why do you want to spend all that $ on a Tera or Prorock when you can do the work yourself. You are offering to set up dana 44's in your spare time. Why not grab a full width ford 9" or dana 60 and build it with what you want? I would suggest the ford 9", it's so awesome and can be build so many ways from mild to wild.

I know you know what you are doing and I'm mainly just book/internet smart so I'm not telling you what to do. Just suggesting you upgrade your 8.8 if you think you need to. You already have the hp44 up front, why not bring it's buddy from the good old days when it was in a stock 70's f-150/bronco? Your hp44 misses its bud, good old 9" back there, the ford 8.8 is trying, but not the same. :laugh3:

I saw a few full width ford 9" axles come out of pnp this weekend for $60 or so. Just cut it down and get 40 spline axle shafts if you think you need them. I thought that 35 spline was plenty for me and I got a Strange Racing Nodular Racing "S" Series case good for 800 hp, pinion support, and a new 35 spline detroit locker. I think this axle could run 40" tires or so, I'm more worried about breaking my front dana 44 OX u-joint and Yukon 4340 alloy shafts with my 37's.

Troy

[Phil]

Hey, guess what, I'm young too. I was 19 when I bolted on my 35s.

I thought I would run stock gears for a while, then regear and lock one end, and be good to go.

I swapped in an 8.25 because I figured it was better than a D35, and I could go 29spl when I geared and locked it. But 8.25s only go up to 4.56.

35s and 3.55s was "ok" (not really) down in the flatlands, but sucked up in the mountains. Wheeling, 4H was was too high and 4L was right between where high and low should have been.

I swapped the 8.25 for a D44 and geared down to 4.88. I'd be 5.13 if the D30 went that low. Somehow - probably snow runs and good spotters on rocks - I didn't break my 260 joints. I've got 297s now, but I'm not going to lock the front.

Brakes are marginal and my steering link angles suck. You may have seen my thread on the SJ subframe. That's because my control arm angles suck, too.

But damn those 35s look cool.

Going to 35s and the lift needed to run them is an expensive project, to do it right. To me, the fact that you felt the need to ask if your setup would be good, shows that you really are not ready for that next step.

[Karl]

i dont want to here about being young and that being the reason that you stay on stock axels. Im only 17 and i am in the middle on a fullwidth 9" dana 44 swap. i work my ass off so i can do this. no help from my parents. i am not paying anyone for work other than haveing my gears setup and thats because i just dont have the balls to risk not getting them quite right and busting 400$ worth of diff. parts. so being young isnt that good of an excuse. oh and im going to 35 and 5.13, but thats only cause i will be on 38 by mid summer. i do get techinal advice and help when i need it from the guys in Peak Empire the local offroad club and if more than one or two of them tell me that i really need something that i really dont see spending the money on i go ahead and do it cause they have been there and done it. there is no reason to do something halfassed and then have to spend more money in the future to build bigger. do it right the first time and if someone with more expirence tells you your wrong listen to them.
Karl

[Big Red]

You've come a long way in a short time Phil. I remember the 1st time I saw your MJ in stock form on the Bowman Lake trail. Then I was with you when your MJ burned after all the work you had into it. You show your admirable character by dusting yourself off after your MJ burned and got right into a XJ again. Yeah, the leap to 35's is not for the faint of heart if you do it right. I'm looking to step up to 37's, but would probably be o.k. on 35's.

No one said this was a cheap hobby. This is one of the most expensive hobbies you can have if you build your jeep up right to run on 35's, or to even run on 33's or so and do the gears, swap out the dana 35 for a 29 spline 8.25 or xj dana 44, or .....$$$ The Jeep bug bites hard and you are usually sick for life. :laugh3:

Sounds good Karl. Working hard and building that XJ is good for you. Have fun :wave: :)

Troy