Differences in age

[RichP]

Really was just thinking about this the other day while I was taking my daughter to work. As I get older I've done two things reguarding driving, leave earlier to be where I'm going and drive a bit slower to get there in bad weather. Had a fairly snowy winter here but no real good accumulations, just alot of ~4" and ice. Noticed that while I was driving along in 4wd it was always kids that were in such a hurry to get where they are going by either riding my bumper or passing in dangerous spots. All the cars and minitrucks I strapped out this past winter as a good samaritian were piloted by kids, 17-~22 bracket. My daughter generally plans ahead and leaves at an early enough time, son OTOH takes it right down to the wire.
Got into this discussion with my wife who is a teacher, early childhood development and learning impaired, seems that male kids brains are not fully developed till they hit 25 or thereabouts, females earlier, ~20, the connections and pathways for things like planning, following thru, and 'the long view' just are not there. Makes me wonder and gives me some pause about the 18yo military eligibility option and sending 19 and 20 YO's into combat situations. Don't get me wrong, I'm not against service, matter of fact I'm a heinlen advocate, don't think you should be able to run or hold public office unless you're a vet with an honorable discharge. Don't mind me, I'm just waiting for a customer to call me back so I'm just rambling...

[Eagle]

That's WHY the military likes the 18-year olds. The officers don't want the troops to be planning. They want 'em to go where they're told and do as they're ordered to do.

I went in after college, and I was a problem for them (and they were a problem for me). I had to learn NOT to ask "Why?" about things that made zero sense, and just do it anyway.

[copperhead]

I've noticed more and more people tailgating me in foul weather. Don't know their ages, but they all seem to come up on me pretty fast, and then sit on my bumper. Room to pass or not, they just sit there too close for comfort. This is even on 4 lane divided highways with both lanes relatively clear. I've tried slowing down to let them pass, and nothing.

Still trying to figure out where bad conditions mean drive crazier.

[ChuckD]

I remember watching a documentery on PBS, regarding adoleseance and brain development. It explains a lot why teenagers do what they do and why we maybe acted so poorly as teenagers oursleves. I remebr it had to do with the ability to look past ones own self. I recall it was very difficult to think of others when I was at that age. For the most part I believed most of my actions would only hurt me and know one else.

As far as service, I truely believe every young person should put themselves in some type of community service. The militarty is not the only avenue. There are many organizations, charities, and governmant sponsored programs. These not only promotes comunity improvement but gives the youth a positve influence to do better for themselves and others.

[Eagle]

I've noticed more and more people tailgating me in foul weather. Don't know their ages, but they all seem to come up on me pretty fast, and then sit on my bumper. Room to pass or not, they just sit there too close for comfort. This is even on 4 lane divided highways with both lanes relatively clear. I've tried slowing down to let them pass, and nothing.

Still trying to figure out where bad conditions mean drive crazier.
This is hardly a new problem. Back in the early 60s the problem was bad enough that I had a manual switch on the dashboard, wired to the brake lights.

Later I used a Cibie driving light on the rear bumper.

[jeeppowermj]

This is hardly a new problem. Back in the early 60s the problem was bad enough that I had a manual switch on the dashboard, wired to the brake lights.

Later I used a Cibie driving light on the rear bumper.

Wow, that makes me feel young, back in the early 60's my parents were like 5. I'm 17 and I learned not to tailgate people the hard way. Three months without having a license is a real bummer. I'm not going to be tailgating anybody anytime soon.

[wescam]

That's WHY the military likes the 18-year olds. The officers don't want the troops to be planning. They want 'em to go where they're told and do as they're ordered to do.

I went in after college, and I was a problem for them (and they were a problem for me). I had to learn NOT to ask "Why?" about things that made zero sense, and just do it anyway.

Maybe in other countries but not here. Not in the US Army. Not since 1987 when I joined. If it was that way in your unit, I'm sorry you had a chain of command that didn't realize sometimes it's OK to ask why, or at least offer a better solution.

The original post may be correct, in general, to characterize bad habits, but I must disagree with your characteriztion of the military.

First of all, the average enlistee is pushing 20 these days since the military services don't want to recruit high school seniors with contracts after graduation. Several years ago we went to an "accession mission" meaning new troops flowing through training all year, not just the summer after graduation. This was done for several reasons. The main one was to get the average first term service member's age and education level up a few years. Today's battlefield requires more of a soldier in terms of comprehension of multiple layers of information. That means older people and higher standards (12L High School Diploma, with an emphasis on 13-16 years of education for enlistment -- yes degree holders enlist, I put 12 of them in enlisted in 3 years).

Lastly, one thing every conventional army who's battled the US has figured out is that you can't beat us for two reasons

1- All the soldiers, in the volunteer military, learn 1 job level up and two down. No other major military on earth trusts their "youngsters" to do that. We do.

2- Our military is so great becuase soldiers are allowed to ask questions, respectfully of course. I've seen the lowest kid on the tank crew come up with an idea that we used more than once when all of us were stumped at why the SFC in charge didn't "get it."

So sorry for the rant. I don't want to 'jack the thread. But I did want to state how I'm of the opinon the reply I quoted above isn't representative of the military, maybe the Vietnam era mentallity, but not the culture of service that existed in WWI, WWII, Korea, and certainly not since the rebuilding of the forces at the start of the Cold War. So I respectfully disagree. Thanks. Back to the discussion at hand.

I have two teenagers. One starts driving on her own next year. My son? 2 years out. I'm running them both through a pretty good drivers training, and belive it or not, if I can afford it, they will both run SCCA Auto Cross. Teaches them quite a bit about how to drive, how to anticipate, etc.

That getting in a hurry and doing stupid moves in bad weather is just as much lack of discipline as it is brain development if you ask me.

[ROBZ95Xj]

I have a real problem with females (90% of them on F%^*&g cell phones) of any age following me closley in bad weather and me not having a rear bumper would make the problemb even worse if they were to hit me. And my insurance is already going to be high enough after getting my first speeding ticket.

[wrecked]

I think has alot to do with people's lifestyles and what not.

I'm 18 and come from a really strict family and not much wiggle room and being forced to pay for everything with no help from my parents. I get crap all the time from people because I drive "like a grandma", sit way back behind people at lights and come to complete stops. I value my automobile, my gas, my insurance rates and my life, so I dont drive stupid. No doubt I've been in an accident(minor fender bender) that I caused. You learn from your mistakes alot better if you have to pay for them. Theres all those preppy girls and boys at school that drive BMW's and Jetta's and what not, fly around with no regards to anyone else, impatient as heck. It annoys me, but they will learn someday... I hope.

[Yucca-Man]

Maybe in other countries but not here. Not in the US Army. Snipped the rest, but good rant.

[Fergie]

Here is how my Dad explained it to me when I began to drive:

Be an assertive driver. Passives are XXXXXXs and aggressives are assholes.

Fergie

PS- That Cibie might get you in trouble/shot at...not worth it to me.

[Starboard M]

This is just my side of things, but Im in that 17-22 age group. Out of most of the people I know, I like to think that Im one of the most careful drivers. That may be because I know my Jeep is not a sports car, and I have put way to much money and blood into it for it to be totaled in some stupid accident. Most of the bad drivers around my suburbian hell are soccer moms in their Excursions and Suburbans. They are trying to get the baby into a new diper, talk on the phone, eat food and try to figure out just how close they can come to hitting you. On the same token, girls are not as good a driver either. Maybe Im just seeing things from a high school guys point of veiw, but thats how I see things. And Im not familiar with that thing that you call weather, but I dont think we have it here in Cali :laugh3: Rant off

[ROBZ95Xj]

I also feel like im the safest driver in my group. I've got one friend who thinks just because he gots snow tires on his kia he can go as fast as he wants and i got another friend who was doin 55 through a trailer park and destroyd 2 mail boxes.

[8Mud]

Just a thought, seems most of the youngsters, appear to suffer from a lack of imagination. And many form poor planning. Many don´t seem to be able to plan 200 yards ahead (hey it´s red anyway, why the rush?).
Some people can imagine a steering wheel planted in there chest, some believe it only when the see it and some not even then. Can you imagine, crushing a child under your Jeep?
Guy yesterday passed in a school zone, no passing and a 25 MPH speed limit and beat me to the red light. I just kind of look and wonder. I pulled well right and slowed down, so he didn´t get in trouble and kill someone.
He was riding 6 feet off of my rear, shortly before passing. Made his pass right in front of the access for the local tennis club (bar). Guys got a $60,000 dollar BMW, very little common sense and little awareness of his surroundings.
My father clued me in to the physics of the big rush. I used to drive fairly aggresively. My father and I left at the same time, he put it in the middle lane and just left it there. I did my normal, lane switching and fighting for the next hole in traffic. We arrived at the same place (about a 20 mile drive on one of the major freeways) with a three minute difference, I won, but what the heck did I win?
If I get a ticket (or worse yet, have a wreck), the time wasted, could wipe out all of my time gains, for the next few years. that I gained by aggresive driving.