Dual t-cases eb dana 20/4:1 Klune V or just Rubi rock-trac 4:1 with an auto XJ, other

[Big Red]

Dual t-cases eb dana 20/4:1 Klune V or just Rubi rock-trac 4:1 with an auto XJ or other???

With my quest of getting the gearing options I need/want for my XJ. I have come across some good deals and have to decide which patch to go down. I got a Rubicon rock-trac t-case with 4:1 gearing that is the same length as a 231 with SYE that I could use with my hp44 5.38 /9" 5.43 gearing. I also now got a used Klune V for a good price with 4:1 gearing and can get a early bronco dana 20 t-case that's driver drop for cheap. I have an auto tranny in my XJ but I do plan on doing JV trails as well as the usual by my house Rubicon and Fordyce. What case/combo would you guys suggest? I want at least a 4:1 t-case gearing, with the 20/klune combo I'd be around 150:1 crawl ratio with my auto so maybe close to 300:1 with the torque converter. Who has run dual cases in a XJ? I'm closer to the early bronco/f-150 or so with my hp44/9", dana 20 t-case etc, so the XJ drivetrain is not a factor as I've upgraded from the weak 30/35, 231 etc.

Early Bronco dana 20 t-case with the 4:1 Klune V link, this combo is 18.5" long, just 1" more than the 231 with a SYE (18.5 vs 17.5). You can also add twin sticks to the 20 and have front wheel/rear wheel drive etc etc. I did my research and got all the parts, now I just need to decide what combo to run. Here is a link to the 20/klune:

http://www.high-impact.net/transmission_and_gear/Klune-V_Bronco_D20_combo.htm

On a side note, people that are considering the Tera 4:1 kit, don't, I got my Rubi rock-trac with 4:1 gearing one ebay for $1K, strong in all areas for $1K and it's bolt in, or just a little mod because the Rubi case is so beefy and big, but it's length is the same as the 231 with a SYE. Here's a link:

http://www.rubiconowners.com/TransferCase.html

I know tough decision, I found the stuff for good prices so it makes it even harder. I got the Klune V for a good/cheap price, the dana 20 for $150 with shifters and yokes, and the Rubi rock-trac for $1,050 shipped. Please take this into mind with the vote as well as what is needed/wanted for gearing a auto XJ on tough stuff like Johnson Valley trails and moderate trails like the Rubicon and Fordyce. You can also add twin sticks to the dana 20 to get front/rear wheel drive, nice mod on the trail. I will also be driving this jeep to and from stuff, this isn't my dd, but with the 1:1 gearing in all the t-cases that is a non-factor as well. I have a hp44/9" with 5.43 gears and alloy shafts so my axles should hold up to whatever combo. Please advise people, and think about these options for your own rigs, the Rubi case is very nice and now that it is out there, I think the Tera 4:1 kits will not be bought as much. Sell your stock 231 before you do the SYE and 4:1 and save big and be alot farther ahead with the 241 Rock-trac. Just a though, now I'll go. :gag: :laugh3:
Troy

[Kittrell]

I voted rubi case for simplicity. You already have one, it's the same length as what you have in there now. Bolt it in and be good to go with a 4:1, sell the Klune to recoupe some cost........... :lecture:

[Kaczman]

I voted for seat time.

-Jon

[Big Red]

I voted for seat time.

-Jon

I know I would get this, ha ha :laugh3: but I'm at a cross roads with my build and I will get plenty of seat time when this is done believe me. So what was you decision on the t-case(s) to use Jon? Seat time isn't an option, I know I need more seat time, this is why I'm building up my XJ the way I am. I've had years of a stock or near stock Xj and YJ with no lockers, bad gears, etc and it sucked, not it's time to have some fun on the trails. :)

[Mike L]

So what was you decision on the t-case(s) to use Jon?

Jon didn't vote since seat time wasn't on the poll. Either add it or you won't get his vote. :wierd:

-Miek

[IH8RDS]

Does the Rubi rock-trac with 4:1 gearing have SYE built in?

[Big Red]

Does the Rubi rock-trac with 4:1 gearing have SYE built in?

Yes, here is the link to the goodies it has in comparison to the np231.

http://www.rubiconowners.com/TransferCase.html

[Big Red]

Jon didn't vote since seat time wasn't on the poll. Either add it or you won't get his vote. :wierd:

-Miek

Both the 20/klune V or 241 rock trac are good mods. Lots of seat time to follow. :laugh3:

[nhrocker]

Can you do a 2 lo conversion on a 241?

[Big Red]

Can you do a 2 lo conversion on a 241?

I haven't heard of that, that's why I'm leaning towards the eb dana 20 and klune v so I can run twin sticks on the 20. I got good prices on those 2 so I'm leaning that way right now. The Rubi 241 is a great case to, but still has a chain.

Watching the poll, I'm surprised more people aren't selecting the 20/klune v. The combined length of that combo is 18.5", 1" more than a 231 with SYE. The 20 is gear driven, twin stick compatible, old and tough. I know the Atlas 2 is awesome. Maybe I should have titled this thread as the best bang for the buck t-case mod instead of just best t-case mod. I think the Rubi 241 t-case for $1K to 1,200 or so is a good deal, not an Atlas but a 1/2 of the price, quite a bit stronger than the 231, comes stock with SYE and 4:1 gearing, and 6 planatary gears instead of the 231's 3. Also it is a bolt in, with little to no mod to accomodate its size.

Troy

[nhrocker]

I would put the 241 in my rig (if I could afford it), since I don't really need the easy 2 wheel. I would be looking more at ease of install (like you said, bolt in 4:1 and SYE)

But in your case, I'm voting for the 20/Klune combo. It sounds like you'll put the 2 wheel selections to good use on the trails you run.

[BrettM]

you only want your crawl ratio to be about 50:1 with an auto tranny. go much lower and you won't be able to stop.

I still thinkg you probably won't want/need a 4:1 t-case with the 5.38/43 gears. keep your 231 with SYE and get some seat time, if you then find that you need more crawl (unlikely IMO) swap the Rubi case and you won't need major driveshaft work.

[Big Red]

you only want your crawl ratio to be about 50:1 with an auto tranny. go much lower and you won't be able to stop.

I still thinkg you probably won't want/need a 4:1 t-case with the 5.38/43 gears. keep your 231 with SYE and get some seat time, if you then find that you need more crawl (unlikely IMO) swap the Rubi case and you won't need major driveshaft work.

Thanks Brett for getting in on this thread. I appreciated your comments before as well. With the 4:1 of the 241 and my axle gears, I'll be about 61:1, with an auto tranny I heard you can figure about 1.8-2 multification from the torque converter so I'll be around 120:1 which I think is pretty ideal. The 20/Klune is a very nice setup, maybe a little better for someone with a manual tranny in a jeep with driver drop diff.
I'm going with 1 of these combos probably the 241 Rubi case, I know I want the gearing.

[gearwhine]

This really is a decision based on what you want, no what others want. Numbers mean nothing....except maybe the not stopping part that brett mentioned....I drive stick...so screw that:). You are asking way too many questions to even have a clue waht you, yourself, want to do.

I've been on 5.5" lift adn 33" tires for almost 4 years now, with the front 30 and rear 44, with 4.56 gears and locked. I still, after four years, could care less about jumping up even bigger. I still always go out with the 37-38" tire crew, and do fine. I'm saying this because, there is no reason to go big right now. Have fun with what you have, get seat time...as you stated you needed...and then decide what you want to do with your jeep.

I hate the "build it once" phrase said so often....of course it saves money in the long run, but where is the progression. It's like going to play pro football when you've never even touched a football.

......so in that case...go out a few times with the stock 231, get a feel for it. See how it drives, then throw in the 241J and notice the difference. This will give you more of an idea of what you want than will our opinions on what we like. If you get a klune, you NEED to upgrade axles. _nicko_

[Kittrell]

If you get a klune, you NEED to upgrade axles. _nicko_

He already has, but everything else sounds about right........... :lecture:

[4ejsmith]

Stick with the Jeep parts and keep it simple. Toby's flat fender ran a v and it would get stuck and he couldn't get it out of gear. He ran the top truck challenge in that rig so it was hammered!

[DrMoab]

Stick with the Jeep parts and keep it simple. Toby's flat fender ran a v and it would get stuck and he couldn't get it out of gear. He ran the top truck challenge in that rig so it was hammered!
Not picking on you here but....Simple is good yes. However because one person breaks a part doesn't really make it a bad part.

[Capt. Nemo]

You'll be getting plenty of seat time with a 300:1 crawl ratio. I don't think anyone needs to be that low. :dunce:

I would recommend hitting a few trails before changing anything after the axle swaps.

But hey, keep on having it worked on. It'll be one less rig clogging up the trail (especially if you're trying to get an absurdly low crawl ratio). :spam:

[Bryan C.]

I didn't vote. Maybe the mods will add seat time to the poll. :gag:

But just to go along with the flow of your build and taking the easiest way. I say run the 241. Skip the klune/20 combo, sounds cool, but not worth the money. The hi-impact setup runs close to $3000. Run the rubi t-case and sell it later on if you want to go with lower gears or an atlas. But for god sakes, try driving your junk before doing any other mods. You can have all the bling stuff you want just to try to be cool, but then to not know how to drive it or repair it on the trail is stupid.

[Mike L]

Hey Big Red! :wave: Read Richard's post again.

Damn man, that's a nice sig. :gag:

If it was me, thank Gawd it's not, I would wheel the $hit out of it after doing the axle swaps and then decide if you really need the extra gearing. If you do, put the Rubi case in it, since you got one and SD & STFU.

-Mike

[BrettM]

You can have all the bling stuff you want just to try to be cool, but then to not know how to drive it or repair it on the trail is stupid.
:shhh:

[BrettM]

I know I want the gearing.

and how do you know this?


read this: http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=166107

[Mike L]

:shhh:

Damn man, I totally missed that. Is Big Red the Fly Tard of Naxja? I could've sworn a similar conversation was going on over at PIRATE (http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=283057) a while ago. :wave:

-Mike

[BrettM]

how long until Big Red has his own website?

http://www.flytard.com/

[XJZ]

Just go with your gut, which set-up do YOU want? The bottom line is it's your rig.

They all sound like excellent options, what are your priorities? Low gearing? multiple-lows? Strength? Something practical? Most-bang-for-lower-buck? Just-won-the-lottery-money-doesn't-matter? Bling? All the above listed are great options, so it's up to you. If no one else has experienced all those particular set-ups, how are they going to answer your question?

I know everyone is telling you to get more seat time, I don't know what your experience level is, but low gearing won't hurt you at all either way. Reading your posts it's quite obvious which route you want to take, but it seems you you have to get everyone's approval first. That's fine, but just make sure it's what YOU want-not what someone else has *approved* for you.

[Mike L]

how long until Big Red has his own website?

http://www.flytard.com/

I tried www.bigtard.com and got nothing. The only thing close that I could get to go was www.bigturd.com but that wasn't anything in the way of Jeeps For Sale or more seat time needed either.

-Mike

[BrettM]

but just make sure it's what YOU want-not what someone else has *appoved* for you.

http://www.coh.org.sg/images/Hold-Hands.jpg

[Mike L]

That's fine, but just make sure it's what YOU want-not what someone else has *appoved* for you.

If that was the case of going by what people approved for him I don't know anyone that approve of him owning a Jeep. :wierd: If it was up to some people here he would still be driving a Yugo.

-Mike

[XJZ]

If that was the case of going by what people approved for him I don't know anyone that approve of him owning a Jeep. :wierd: If it was up to some people here he would still be driving a Yugo.

-Mike

I know......and we'd still have to hear endlessly how his Yugo has 37's! :)

[Rawbrown]

Well since Everyone seems to be having more fun baggin on Big Red rather than providing some honest to god F'ing criticism. Stop Bitching about seat time and the # of times he repeats a post on a thread and give the guy some F'ing slack.
They guy has come across a good deal on both the 241 and a Klune. What does he do? Klune with the 20? or rocktrack? what about an Atlas? the Klune could be sold along withe the rocktrack and then he can have an atlas. I would probably stiick with the 241 for simplicity. I mean, after all, I am the one that will be installing it.

[Big Red]

Well since Everyone seems to be having more fun baggin on Big Red rather than providing some honest to god F'ing criticism. Stop Bitching about seat time and the # of times he repeats a post on a thread and give the guy some F'ing slack.
They guy has come across a good deal on both the 241 and a Klune. What does he do? Klune with the 20? or rocktrack? what about an Atlas? the Klune could be sold along withe the rocktrack and then he can have an atlas. I would probably stiick with the 241 for simplicity. I mean, after all, I am the one that will be installing it.

Thanks Ryan. I really appreciate that man, I'm going to do what I'm going to do regardless of what people say. I found some great deals and have these options in front of me. I don't make alot of $, my wife is layed up at home with very bad health, but I love wheeling and moved here from Chicago to be able to do it on a regular basis. I'm an accountant getting by, but am good at grabbing deals when I see them, and finding someone as honest and nice as Ryan to guide me and do the technical work that he is famous around here for. Heck I drove down from Sacramento and gave Ryan my jeep for as long as he needs because I know he is good and he worked with me on getting the prices down on the parts and labor I needed.

I guess people just cannot take that I'm doing some major things to my rig and they cannot. I think that is what it really boils down to. I asked for some advice, but people just want to talk smack. Well STFU people who have smack to say, either give some experience on these setups or STFU. U guys doing that are the Big Tards here, not me. This site is getting worse than Pirate for the crap that people are dishing out. Well bring it to the trail and STFU in the meantime.

Thanks again Ryan, I really appreciate your comment and opening up your busy schedule to me for the work that I'm looking to have done. :)

Troy

[BrettM]

I'm going to do what I'm going to do regardless of what people say.

then why post a poll? i think that is the core of the issue. you often ask for advise and don't take it.

[Big Red]

then why post a poll? i think that is the core of the issue. you often ask for advise and don't take it.

I did take your advice and ditched my plans of putting my stock 231 t-case in back of the Klune V and instead bought a rock trac. Then I came across a great deal on a Klune V and read on Pirate that combining it with a eb dana 20 U would have a great combo and only 1" more in length than a 231 with a SYE. Just thought I'd get some people saying what they have done or would do, not the crap about seat time, being a Big Tard etc. I do look at the advice I'm getting, but I want to do the mods now so I don't need to have the driveshafts adjusted again and my rig down again on another build up. I just want to have fun with it on the trails when this is done.

[Mike L]

O think I just found a new sig. :wierd:

-Mike

[Big Red]

O think I just found a new sig. :wierd:

-Mike

Sounds good, remember it when you have crap to spew rather than giving advice on the topic. This poll is very relevant to alot of people thinking about better gearing options. I just posted on what I found info on (the eb dana 20/klune v and the 241 rock trac) and the parts I found some deals on. I was just trying to get some feedback from other XJers out there. I posted on Pirate and the vote is split between the 20/klune and the Atlas. I could sell what I have and get the Atlas, but that's a little too much $ for me, I need to pocket it as it was used up in my axles. I think the rock trac will do just fine.

The rock trac being available on ebay and around for people stepping up to an Atlas for around $1K. Very nice strong t-case with many advantages and cheaper than doing a SYE and 4:1 gear change in the 231.

Troy

[RCP Phx]

Ive got a Tera-low in my 2000 and a Rocktrac in my 95,they were both about the same price(to buy or put together).Besides being stronger the Rocktrac is also infinately quieter than my 231!

[gearwhine]

The only reason I said you need more seat time is because you said it yourself in one of your posts. I'm not trying to bitch to you. I gave my honest opinion on what you should do, and hopefully you'll take it.

The bitching I did about the build it once thing is to the whole jeep community, not directed at any one person.

Now to add experiences to my particular post, I run a tera 4:1, AX-15, 4.56's, and 33" tires. I wish I could go slower. But I'd guess you'd be fine with a 4:1 and an automatic. Guys I wheel with have the same set-up as me, but with an auto, and they can go much slower and crawl much more effortlessly. Depending on your tire size...say less than 37-38" tires, You'd probably be fine with just the 4:1.

The best tech in this post is to try out what you have for a while and build off what you learn from dirving it. You already posess 2 options you want to try, don't think you need to install it now. You can always pick which one you want later on, and probably feel much more comfortable with your choice after that little bit of time.

_nicko_

[Big Red]

Thanks RCP Phx & gearwhine. I wasn't directing my rage at you guys, just Mike and Brett in here who were being asshats. I really appreciate Bretts advice when he pm'd me and directed me away from the Klune/231 combo which I felt before asking might not be a good idea. All I wanted is people to who have a 4:1 either in a auto or even a manual to give me some feedback. I know I don't have alot of time wheeling, but my jeep is apart with getting the new axles and it is a good time to decide what t-case(s) to go with so I don't have to have the driveshafts done again later. I plan to wheel my jeep like crazy when its done. Thanks for the feedback guys.

When you compare to how much the Tera 4:1 costs for the 231 and the SYE , it is easy to justify spending $1K-1,200 on the 241 Rubicon rock-trac t-case for these features and alot more. When you start thinking about spending over $1,500-2K, then that is Atlas territory used or new.

Troy

[Big Red]

and how do you know this?


read this: http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=166107

I read that already a few days before I posted. I just want confirmation and opinions on it from XJers here. I'm going to go with the 241 and sell my Klune V. I wanted to post and have a poll to not only reaffirm stuff to me, but show others about the eb dana 20/klune, 241, Tera 4:1 in the 231, and the big $/big bling Atlas 2. Gearing is where it's at for the trail, deciding how much you need vs how much you think is cool for bragging rights is another. I've spent a good amount of time researching what gearing is needed for an auto vs a manual and I know they are very different, with the torque converter in the auto you can almost double your crawl ratio so that really helps and makes for a good wheeler. I know that is why you said you went with the AW4 auto in your MJ Brett instead of a AX 15 or NV4500. It was cheap and made for a low cost, dependable wheeler.

Final thoughts on what I learned here:

Early Bronco 20/Klune V: Nice option, but very expensive if U buy the Klune V new and can find the harder to find eb dana 20 t-case. Very nice mod for a manual jeep that wants to retain the driver drop diff for a hp 44 or hp 60. This is really a manual tranny consideration, but the gear choices here are amazing. Don't just think having both t-cases in low, but having the eb dana 20 for mud, sand, and other high speed wheeling and the 4:1 in the Klune for rocks and other stuff, and the low range of each for the super technical stuff like JV trails etc. I got a good deal on a Klune V so this was an option for me, I wouldn't pay close to $3K for it.

241 Rubicon Rock-trac t-case: Very nice t-case with many strength feature over the 231. It being a bolt in or near bolt in just further enhances its appeal. It comes with a factory SYE and 4:1 gearing and strong 6 planatary gear setup etc etc etc. Check this link for the 231 vs 241 breakdown: http://www.rubiconowners.com/TransferCase.html
I got mine on ebay for $1,050 shipped which is a very good deal considering a Tera 4:1 is about $850 to a $1K and a SYE is about $200-350 alone, then factor in labor to install if U need that and you can see how attractive of a deal the 241 Rubicon rock-trac is if you can find 1 from $900-1,200. Over $1,500 and its Atlas 2 territory new or used.

Tera 4:1 in the 231: Not worth the $ in my book when the 241 Rubicon rock trac is available and for the reasons found above.

Atlas 2 t-case: The king, if you can afford it, run it, you will not be disappointed.

Thanks for all the feeback and the people voting, I hope this helps people on the fence in deciding what t-case gearing they need/want. It looks like the 241 and Atlas are running away with it. The Atlas even though it isn't cheap $2K-2.5K range it is worth the beef and worry free operation. For 1/2 the price of the Atlas, the 241 is a darn good beef upgrade from the 231 especially if U are getting started and haven't done the SYE and Tera 4:1 kits already. If you have done the SYE to the 231 like I have, then just sell it for some dough, probably $350-450 or so for a low mileage 231 t-case with a SYE ready to go.

Troy

[Phil]

Troy, I just have to ask: Are you having this rig built so you can have a built rig, or are you having it built so you can actually get out and run some trails?

If you want a built rig, keep finding parts and having them installed. If you want to wheel, get the rig finished with what you have and just wheel the damn thing.

[BrettM]

Troy, I just have to ask: Are you having this rig built so you can have a built rig, or are you having it built so you can actually get out and run some trails?

If you want a built rig, keep finding parts and having them installed. If you want to wheel, get the rig finished with what you have and just wheel the damn thing.
that's a good point phil. if he was building it to get out and run trails he coulda just left it as it was. but apparently 35s aren't "cool" anymore. neither is the Rubicon or Fordyce.

[Kaczman]

I voted for Phil.

-Jon

[Big Red]

that's a good point phil. if he was building it to get out and run trails he coulda just left it as it was. but apparently 35s aren't "cool" anymore. neither is the Rubicon or Fordyce.

I know I could of kept my 30/44 as I had them, but I found the hp44/9" and it kind of spiraled from there. The 241 is a bolt in so I hope to have my jeep back by early April ready for some Sierra Trails. I hope to get in a few snow runs, but probably with my Brother-in-law's XJ that I'm working on with him. It will be running Lee's hp30/eb 9" with 4.88 gears and a spool and alloy 31 spline Moser axle shafts in the back with 35" MT tires.

Troy

[BrettM]

I voted for Phil.

-Jon
damn, where's that option? i want to change my vote. (i voted for the 241)

[Big Red]

Come on U guys. That's not 1 of the options here. Be nice. :laugh3:

[BillR]

FWIW, the biggest advantages I see for the 231 over the Rubie case is NO driveshaft modifications and the ability to install 2-Low. I use 2-Low ALOT on the trails with a front locker. That was one of the main reasons I installed the TeraLow unit in mine. I already had the JB SYE and the 2Low kit, so it was an easy decision to just "complete" the case. :laugh3:
I could've sold the 231 and found a Rubie case, but I didn't want to give up 2-Low.

[BrettM]

FWIW, the biggest advantages I see for the 231 over the Rubie case is NO driveshaft modifications and the ability to install 2-Low. I use 2-Low ALOT on the trails with a front locker. That was one of the main reasons I installed the TeraLow unit in mine. I already had the JB SYE and the 2Low kit, so it was an easy decision to just "complete" the case. :laugh3:
I could've sold the 231 and found a Rubie case, but I didn't want to give up 2-Low.
i assume you don't have an ARB up front? that is a good point since I think he is using a detroit up front.

[BillR]

i assume you don't have an ARB up front? that is a good point since I think he is using a detroit up front.
Nope, no ARB here. I DO have manual hubs, but I dont want to unlock everytime I need to make a sharp turn on the rocks. An ARB WOULD do the trick, though.

[rockwerks]

well I actually worked on my rig a little this weekend, I have the Klune V with the auto and 4:56 gears, hopefully have it done next month about 90% done now, I also have the full detroit up front with locking hubs. Doesnot someone now make a HD driveshaft disconnect? I think I saw it on Pirates

http://www.offroad.no/snitz/uploaded/p%E5l/disc3.jpg

here it is It would be nice to be able to totally disco the front or rear DS as wanted HMMMMMMM

[Big Red]

well I actually worked on my rig a little this weekend, I have the Klune V with the auto and 4:56 gears, hopefully have it done next month about 90% done now, I also have the full detroit up front with locking hubs. Doesnot someone now make a HD driveshaft disconnect? I think I saw it on Pirates

http://www.offroad.no/snitz/uploaded/p%E5l/disc3.jpg

here it is It would be nice to be able to totally disco the front or rear DS as wanted HMMMMMMM

Are you running a 231 behind the Klune V? I'm very interested to know how it works for you. Please post up with an update once you have it all in and run it.

Troy

[jeepguy97]

but probably with my Brother-in-law's XJ that I'm working on with him.

So you can work on his but not yours :dunno:

[XJ_ranger]

So you can work on his but not yours :dunno:

worthless comment - good one jeepguy

[BrettM]

pot. kettle. black.


at least i know my comments are worthless :laugh3:

[Big Red]

So you can work on his but not yours :dunno:

His is a bolt in 30/9" out of Lee's XJ. I installed my hp30/44 that I had in my jeep before I decided to go with the hp44/9" full width axles. These involve a good deal of fab work, gear and locker set up etc that Ryan is very good at.

[rockwerks]

Are you running a 231 behind the Klune V? I'm very interested to know how it works for you. Please post up with an update once you have it all in and run it.

Troy


the actuall parts I have and am using came out of a friends xj that he wheeled in Phoenix for about a year before the XJ caught fire. I bought the whole rig for 1500.00 and sold the parts I didnt use for 1500.00. I drove with him on a trail once and it performed flawlessly. I have installed the AA HD output shaft on it and am really thinking of using the DS disconnect on the rear. now BillR has me thinking of the 2 lo kit of it too HMMMMMM. Then I can go 2lo front or rear

[basalt51]

Thanks Ryan. I really appreciate that man, I'm going to do what I'm going to do regardless of what people say. I found some great deals and have these options in front of me. I don't make alot of $, my wife is layed up at home with very bad health, but I love wheeling and moved here from Chicago to be able to do it on a regular basis. I'm an accountant getting by, but am good at grabbing deals when I see them, and finding someone as honest and nice as Ryan to guide me and do the technical work that he is famous around here for. Heck I drove down from Sacramento and gave Ryan my jeep for as long as he needs because I know he is good and he worked with me on getting the prices down on the parts and labor I needed.

I guess people just cannot take that I'm doing some major things to my rig and they cannot. I think that is what it really boils down to. I asked for some advice, but people just want to talk smack. Well STFU people who have smack to say, either give some experience on these setups or STFU. U guys doing that are the Big Tards here, not me. This site is getting worse than Pirate for the crap that people are dishing out. Well bring it to the trail and STFU in the meantime.

Thanks again Ryan, I really appreciate your comment and opening up your busy schedule to me for the work that I'm looking to have done. :)

Troy

Wow, cry me a river. They were giving sound advice based on the fact that they know you haven't wheeled with you're new setup, are in process of changing to 37s and 5.38s (a combo you have never run) and are only doing it to run with the big boys, who don't want to run with you because you don't have seat time. Who cares how much you have read. It's FREE to run what you have and then decide what you need, and swapping TCs is easily done later. The only cost you may be out by waiting is new driveshafts. But apparently the struggling accountant has money falling out of his pockets. I don't know why you even bother asking and posting these polls. You change your mind on a whim whenever anyone suggests one thing is better then the other and then you get in a huff when people who have wheeled with you think you should get more experience because then you can make the decision for yourself.

But you're right, we're all just jealous.

[BrettM]

Wow, cry me a river. They were giving sound advice based on the fact that they know you haven't wheeled with you're new setup, are in process of changing to 37s and 5.38s (a combo you have never run) and are only doing it to run with the big boys, who don't want to run with you because you don't have seat time. Who cares how much you have read. It's FREE to run what you have and then decide what you need, and swapping TCs is easily done later. The only cost you may be out by waiting is new drivesahfts. But apparently the struggling accountant has money falling out of his pockets. I don't know why you even bother asking and posting these polls. You change your mind on a whim whenever anyone suggests one thing is better then the other and then you get in a huff when people who have wheeled with you think you should get more experience because then you can make the decision for yourself.

But you're right, we're all just jealous.

:golfclap: that brought a tear to my eye. beautiful.

[ashmanjeepxj]

well I actually worked on my rig a little this weekend, I have the Klune V with the auto and 4:56 gears, hopefully have it done next month about 90% done now, I also have the full detroit up front with locking hubs. Doesnot someone now make a HD driveshaft disconnect? I think I saw it on Pirates

http://www.offroad.no/snitz/uploaded/p%E5l/disc3.jpg

here it is It would be nice to be able to totally disco the front or rear DS as wanted HMMMMMMM

I saw these on some Toyota buggies at the WE rock comp afew weeks ago. The guy said they used some Toyota 5sp Tranny internals. My wheeling buddie wants to make one for this toyota dual cases so he can do front digs.

I have the rear parts of a 203T-case sitting around (left overs form my doubelr project), it has a beefie disconnect I think we will try over tearing up a working little toyota Tranny. We have both so It will get built eventually.

[Big Red]

Here's another dual crawling box option using the 231 t-case gears in a dual 231 or 231/241 combo. I found it on Pirate and the guy is now going to be selling the kit, here's the link:

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?p=3648587#post3648587

Troy

[Fergie]

Have you explored this option?

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?p=3648587#post3648587

Fergie

[basalt51]

I believe he has :D

Here's another dual crawling box option using the 231 t-case gears in a dual 231 or 231/241 combo. I found it on Pirate and the guy is now going to be selling the kit, here's the link:

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?p=3648587#post3648587

Troy

[Big Red]

Have you explored this option?

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?p=3648587#post3648587

Fergie

No, I haven't personally, but I it sounds very interesting. What do you guys think about it?

Troy

[Fergie]

I believe he has :D
Ya know...you would think I would see something like that when it is thr post right before the one I made, and I clicked the quick reply to make my post....

Time for a break.

Fergie

[CRASH]

Good Lord. 5 pages of thread for a decision that it is clear you have made.

You have procured a 241.

Have Ryan install it.

End of thread, end of discussion.

CRASH

[Big Red]

Good Lord. 5 pages of thread for a decision that it is clear you have made.

You have procured a 241.

Have Ryan install it.

End of thread, end of discussion.

CRASH


I wasn't sure what I wanted to do, the klune/20 or the 241. I decided on the 241, but the thread wasn't only for my benefit. This is a very relevant thread, gearing is a very important factor in wheeling as those who have wheeled know. I was just trying to see what people thought and would run with the choices out there. I should have stressed, which choice U would chose based on the price and what U get for your $.

What's your crawl ratio Crash, don't U run a nv4500, 4.3 Atlas and 4.88 gears in your 44/8.8?

[Jes]

Big Red 18
BrettM 11
Mike L 6
nhrocker 2
BillR 2
xjnation 2
XJZ 2
Fergie 2
Kaczman 2
basalt51 2
91 Jeep Project 2
gearwhine 2
Rawbrown 1
Phil 1
jeepguy97 1
Bryan C. 1
IH8RDS 1
DrMoab 1
XJ_ranger 1
RCP Phx 1
Capt. Nemo 1
4ejsmith 1
ashmanjeepxj 1
CRASH 1

[XJZ]

Jes 1 :D

[Big Red]

Make that 19, I started the poll and have been keeping it going thank you very much. :laugh3:

[Paul S]

If you have a couple grand to throw at your jeep with the goal of making it more Rubicon, Fordyce & JV friendly, here's what I'd suggest:
Leave the tcase as is. You have an auto & deep axle gearing, this should be fine, at least for awhile. In the mean time, go wheeling & figure out what you need/want, then buy an Atlas.

Sell your rear LP9 3rd, buy a True Hi9 3rd.
Send Ryan a few more $$$ & have him narrow your axles. It will be cheaper to have him do it now than in 6 months.

Paul

[Mike L]

Hey what happened to Big Red's "Grocery List" sig line? :wierd: If you truly want to run JV then get rid of the full width axles. They are not West Coast approved. I remeber a Land Cruiser that kept getting stuck on Aftershock. Anyone got pics of it?

-Mike

[XJ_ranger]

Hey what happened to Big Red's "Grocery List" sig line? :wierd: If you truly want to run JV then get rid of the full width axles. They are not West Coast approved. I remeber a Land Cruiser that kept getting stuck on Aftershock. Anyone got pics of it?

-Mike

just for my own education - what is west coast aproved? who decides that?
just frowned upon, or strictly not aloud?

thanks
-Ranger

[CRASH]

just for my own education - what is west coast aproved? who decides that?
just frowned upon, or strictly not aloud?

thanks
-Ranger

Frowned upon, especially when someone shows up with mods that our group KNOWS are going to fail.

In the narrow, tight, box canyons that we run in AZ and the SoCAl desert, full width axles force you to take some ridiculous high lines, forcing any sheetmetal you might have into the rocks. This usually bites the roof up near the drip rails first.

Now, on a fully buggified rig with a good driver, full width is not really a handicap, but you are definately going to be on a very different line than someone on 60 inch wide axles.

What good is all the extra stability if you have to take super-high lines to get through a trail?

CRASH

[rockwerks]

Frowned upon, especially when someone shows up with mods that our group KNOWS are going to fail.

In the narrow, tight, box canyons that we run in AZ and the SoCAl desert, full width axles force you to take some ridiculous high lines, forcing any sheetmetal you might have into the rocks. This usually bites the roof up near the drip rails first.

Now, on a fully buggified rig with a good driver, full width is not really a handicap, but you are definately going to be on a very different line than someone on 60 inch wide axles.

What good is all the extra stability if you have to take super-high lines to get through a trail?

CRASH

WERD BRO! WERD!

Nuthin worse than trying to follow a full width yahoo through trails that the xj only clears by inches. HMMMMM I wonder how many full width guys run competitions? As far as I can remember NONE!

[roke40]

I checked out the link in your first post about the d20 swap and didn't see anything on their website about the AW4 transmisson. Is it a direct bolt in or is there an adapter? If so who makes it?

[XJZ]

He was going to put the K-V between the tranny and d20.

[ashmanjeepxj]

In the narrow, tight, box canyons that we run in AZ and the SoCAl desert, full width axles force you to take some ridiculous high lines, forcing any sheetmetal you might have into the rocks. This usually bites the roof up near the drip rails first.

Now, on a fully buggified rig with a good driver, full width is not really a handicap, but you are definately going to be on a very different line than someone on 60 inch wide axles.

What good is all the extra stability if you have to take super-high lines to get through a trail?

CRASH

what ever... :rattle:

[CRASH]

what ever... :rattle:

what ever... :rattle:

CRASH

[Bryan C.]

Has he made a decision yet?

I finally voted.... :01of5:

[Mike L]

Has he made a decision yet?

I finally voted.... :01of5:

I voted also. I put my vote under the Atlas 2. That is what I would run if/when i have the money. Gotta get all blinged out fo' sho. Sho' you right.

Oh where's the poll on whether or not full-widths are West Coast approved? Big Red? :wave:

-Mike

[Big Red]

I voted also. I put my vote under the Atlas 2. That is what I would run if/when i have the money. Gotta get all blinged out fo' sho. Sho' you right.

Oh where's the poll on whether or not full-widths are West Coast approved? Big Red? :wave:

-Mike

Dude, you're really ithing for trouble aren't you. I'll just have to see how the full width axles do, I'll be testing them out this summer. I think I'll be o.k.

[Mike L]

Dude, you're really ithing for trouble aren't you. I'll just have to see how the full width axles do, I'll be testing them out this summer. I think I'll be o.k.

I guess I'm just the resident pot-stirrer. Is it too late for Ryan to shorten 'dem housings? Maybe you should ask him the difference if he does it now vs. 6 mos. from now like Paul S. suggested? :gag: Time for another beer. :speepin:

-Mike

[Mike L]

Dude, you're really ithing for trouble aren't you.

BTW- trouble's my middle name. As Jes would say "Don't make me pull out my .45 and put a cap in yo ass, foo!" J/K You need to relax bro. :cheers:

-Mike

[Mike L]

Dude, you're really ithing for trouble aren't you.


Oh yeah, almost forgot, I think you mean ITCHING

[Bryan C.]

I still haven't voted in the poll.

[BrettM]

Dude, you're really ithing for trouble aren't you. I'll just have to see how the full width axles do, I'll be testing them out this summer. I think I'll be o.k.

Think based on what?!? The guys that have run JV dozens of times agree that it will not be good. Paul even thinks the width is more important than the gearing, and if anyone here knows those trails, it's him.

[Rawbrown]

Jim Brown aka Vintage speed ran through Jackhammer with is full width axles. so don't tell me full width isn't hammer approved. and Paul lead that run.

[Mike L]

Jim Brown aka Vintage speed ran through Jackhammer with is full width axles. so don't tell me full width isn't hammer approved. and Paul lead that run.

Ok, but why do you think he pieced out "Big Ugly" and is going to build his MJ into something more streetable/offroadable. There is a certain point at which everything can be too big or too wide. When you think you know what I'm talking about, let me know.

-Mike

[CRASH]

Jim Brown aka Vintage speed ran through Jackhammer with is full width axles. so don't tell me full width isn't hammer approved. and Paul lead that run.

How many times did Jim actually run his rig in JV before parting it? I'm fairly certain I'VE been there more times than him, and I live nearly 12 hours away!

Again, FW is fine on buggies since you can take any line you want, but on a full body rig, you are begging for sheetmetal carnage.

In fact one of the Crew's hobbies is checking out the "fullwidth" line on obstacles we have just cleared. It's fun to speculate how much sheetmetal and glass you may have taken out when having to take the high line.

CRASH

[rockwerks]

Think based on what?!? The guys that have run JV dozens of times agree that it will not be good. Paul even thinks the width is more important than the gearing, and if anyone here knows those trails, it's him.

What the man said with an auto gearing is not near as important, I did many 4.5 an above trails with my XJ with 33's and 3:54 gearing with no 4:1 tc either. Sledgehammer, Lost world, axle alley, never would even get into anaconda I dont think

[Jes]

Jim Brown aka Vintage speed ran through Jackhammer with is full width axles. so don't tell me full width isn't hammer approved. and Paul lead that run.

Jackhammer is not what I would call a "tight" trail. Try Sunbonett or OL. ;)

[Paul S]

Jim Brown aka Vintage speed ran through Jackhammer with is full width axles. so don't tell me full width isn't hammer approved. and Paul lead that run.

True, but less than half way up Jack he told me that if he were to build another jeep it would be stock width. He also had to bypass the V notch at the entrance. And, as Jes said, Jack is probably the most full width friendly Hammer.
It's also important to note that Jim has a lot of experience & had no problem taking his own lines. I'd hate to go to JV for the first time & not have the option of following the same line as the 5 guys in front of me.

Paul

[CRASH]

This thread has gotten off-topic, and besides, I want to change my vote.

I originally voted Atlas, but now I think I would say Klune-V in front of the Roc-Trak. All of the planetary gear slop will give our young accountant friend time to choose which full-width line he wants to play on.

CRASH

[Big Red]

This thread has gotten off-topic, and besides, I want to change my vote.

I originally voted Atlas, but now I think I would say Klune-V in front of the Roc-Trak. All of the planetary gear slop will give our young accountant friend time to choose which full-width line he wants to play on.

CRASH

That's o.k. I'm selling the Klune V and just running the 241 Roc-trak. :)

[Bryan C.]

That's o.k. I'm selling the Klune V and just running the 241 Roc-trak. :)

7 pages and we finally have a decision. :sunshine:

Thank Gawd :gag:

[BrettM]

time to start the poll to get him to go narrow on the axles :rolleyes:

[David Taylor]

What he should do and what he will do never seem to coincide.

[Big Red]

7 pages and we finally have a decision. :sunshine:

Thank Gawd :gag:

This wasn't all about me, I was trying to get everyone to think about the different t-case gearing options we have. I had my mind made up early on. I know I have an auto and don't needs tons of gearing from dual cases.

What he should do and what he will do never seem to coincide.

Not true, I was advised that I should not rely on my 31 spline 9" shafts with 35's let alone the 37's I was planning on running so I went with alloy 35 spline and nodular case. I was advised by Brett not to run my 231 t-case behind a 4:1 klune v, so I went with a solo 241. Staying full width is more of a budget thing for me now, I want to see how I do and until then I will stay off of the JV trails, I want to test it out extensively on the Rubicon and Fordyce, Dusey, etc in the Sierras close to me before heading down South and running the big bad Hammer Trails.

time to start the poll to get him to go narrow on the axles :rolleyes:

Brett,
You said I would be as wide as your front axle with my setup on 8" 4" b.s. rims compared to your 10" rims. Up and over or higher line on 1 side for now if needed.

How many times did Jim actually run his rig in JV before parting it? I'm fairly certain I'VE been there more times than him, and I live nearly 12 hours away!

Again, FW is fine on buggies since you can take any line you want, but on a full body rig, you are begging for sheetmetal carnage.

In fact one of the Crew's hobbies is checking out the "fullwidth" line on obstacles we have just cleared. It's fun to speculate how much sheetmetal and glass you may have taken out when having to take the high line.

CRASH

Would your or Farmer Matt's roof rails help out with this when I need to take a high line? Just wondering, I was thinking of going that route and getting rid of my roof rack that I don't use.

Troy


Troy

[XJZ]

Sure....but what about the rocks at glass level? Or lower?

[David Taylor]

Big red, I think in your rush to try and build a so called "hardcore" rig you might be missing the big picture.
You say you want to run JV trails but you don't take the advice of anybody that really wheels there. There are a hand full of people on naxja that wheel JV. Have you tried an e-mail or pm to them for advice? If so your not taking it. As much as most of them think you might be a tard, there is not one that I know that wouldn't give you straight advice.
You had your new axles out. Now was the time to cut them down. Do you want to buy new shafts later? You can't do the work at home.So when you see that your to wide it will be time for another trip down to Ryan and two more months with no jeep.
Sell that 241 if you don't have the money to do the axle's right the first time.
With the 5.38's and auto you will have all the gearing you need for the summer. Save your money and then get the atlas you know you really want.

[HTeK]

you only want your crawl ratio to be about 50:1 with an auto tranny. go much lower and you won't be able to stop.


The ideal ratio of 50:1 is calculated to include the ~1.8ish reduction given by the T.C., correct?

[BrettM]

The ideal ratio of 50:1 is calculated to include the ~1.8ish reduction given by the T.C., correct?
no. the reduction offered by the TC varies by tranny, so people with autos usually say what ratio they have and make sure to mention it's with an auto.

2.80 (AW4 1st gear) x 2.72 (np231) x 4.88 (diffs) = 37:1

I think this is nearly perfect, 5.13s would probably make it perfect on the street and crawling (39:1). This is with 35s of course, and that 50:1 number came from PBB and the average tire size in that thread was probably 38s.

[HTeK]

no. the reduction offered by the TC varies by tranny, so people with autos usually say what ratio they have and make sure to mention it's with an auto.

2.80 (AW4 1st gear) x 2.72 (np231) x 4.88 (diffs) = 37:1

I think this is nearly perfect, 5.13s would probably make it perfect on the street and crawling (39:1). This is with 35s of course, and that 50:1 number came from PBB and the average tire size in that thread was probably 38s.

Gotcha... good info.

[Mike L]

Damn, no more comments from the peanut gallery or Big Red himself? He must be busy reading Richard's post AGAIN..............................yeah right! :gag:

-Mike

[Red97XJ]

How did this get dug up to the top with Mike L saying posted 3-05?

[Jeepsterboy101]

Cause of the freiken poll.....

[XJ_ranger]

I have run all 7 of the original hammers trails on my full with axles...

and have run in 2 competitions...











just thought id add that... :confused1

[cracker]

Something is missing but I can't quite figure it out. :confused:

[Rawbrown]

are you fawking kidding me!?
HOW THE FAWK DID THIS THREAD GET DRAGGED UP?

[Jump This]

I have run all 7 of the original hammers trails on my full with axles...

and have run in 2 competitions

just thought id add that... :confused1


So, how have you scored in these events anyway?
Sorry, hadto say it...

:wave:

[Rawbrown]

if its anything he learned from Ron... Then he's fawked...:doh:
Only thing he probably became proficient at is welding razor blades together.

[Phil]

I have run all 7 of the original hammers trails on my full with axles...

and have run in 2 competitions...











just thought id add that... :confused1

And what width did we decide we were going to make your next pair of axles? Not '76 F-150, I believe?

[Ramsey]

79 f 150? Or go with the super wide 05 f250.

[XJ_ranger]

79 f 150? Or go with the super wide 05 f250.

those are for my 40+ sportsman class rig! :gee:

[cracker]

those are for my 40+ sportsman class rig! :gee:

Got to put a 14 bolt in the back :firedevil