Dual Double Cardan Driveshaft

Has anyone ever actually run one on the front? I am thinking that I could have a vibe free front shaft AND good caster by doing this. It would be cheaper than D30 hubs or a D44, and simpler than rotating knuckles.

From what I have seen, the front have are double jointed.

double double. seems like a real pita. how high is your heep?

old_man said:

I thought about this several years ago but then figured out why not. DC joints do not center perfectly and can wobble, especially if the spring inside and bearing gets worn. Putting on two would allow the shaft to move around too much and thus vibrate. Sure would be nice if it could be done, but I don't think you would be satisfied with the result.

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http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=40777

kubtastic said:

http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=40777

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thanks,

I saw that before I posted. I am not convinced that is a satisfactory answer, which why I asked if someone has actually done it before. Most of the major driveshaft companies make multiple double cardan shafts, so it would follow that it works for at least some applications. I was looking for some real world experience with XJs, not regurgitated opinions and speculation.

I'm working on it!

Call Tom Wood's and talk with Troy. He made one up for the rear on my old CJ. It was expensive but worked well, I had an automatic/quadratrac, a reaer end from a scout and a lift. So not only height difference but an offset from the centerline of the Jeep to the offset pinion. We discussed for about 45 minutes and he made it up and shipped to me. Seven days from conversation to arrival.
Good Luck,
Tom

I have had one in for a year now. through a # of trails around southern California. you will need to be specific about your needs. the builder needs to know that it needs a good balance if your front is allways live. if you have a vac disco then balance is not an issue. I was in a big hurry for mine, Six states built it on a thursday and shipped it to me friday morning so that I could go to the socalxj jambo with a good front shaft. but it is definatly a nice front shaft to have. for the reasons that your looking for.

RKBA said:

thanks,

I saw that before I posted. I am not convinced that is a satisfactory answer, which why I asked if someone has actually done it before. Most of the major driveshaft companies make multiple double cardan shafts, so it would follow that it works for at least some applications. I was looking for some real world experience with XJs, not regurgitated opinions and speculation.

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if you're buying a shaft from the beloved Tom Woods <sorry, I just don't see where TW shafts are such a big deal>, why in the world wouldn't you get a "Good balance" on it. For the money you paid there's no excuse for you to have to specify it needs to be balanced.

burntkat said:

if you're buying a shaft from the beloved Tom Woods <sorry, I just don't see where TW shafts are such a big deal>, why in the world wouldn't you get a "Good balance" on it. For the money you paid there's no excuse for you to have to specify it needs to be balanced.

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TW shafts are a big deal (as are Six States) because they are quality made and balanced, besides the fact that they have experience doing what we do. They know what their shafts are being used for. If you buy from an off the wall driveline shop they may just be building a shaft and not considering the use, let alone know what they are doing. I think you're taking the two and confusing them. Go with TW, Six States, or High Angle and you won't go wrong (at least in my experience).

because in the vast majority of the world outside of our beloved jeeps, in the world of lock out hubs, there is no real requirment to have a balance front driveshaft since it typically doesn't turn at hwy speeds. my front DD shaft is from Six states, and he had to get the shaft built and shipped in a day to me. hence the lack of a good balance because I didn't spec that and it was assumed that I had lock out hubs. Eric at SS does a good job at building me shafts when I need them.

I hope it's appropriate to ask it here:

Would such a shaft be the best solution so I could run better caster? Or the cut and turn? Or get a HP dana 30?
(in terms of time/$/effort/tools)

i think a hp d44 would be a mucho grande upgrade, why stop with a d30 hp swap u know u want to or will want to in the future

So's the guy at the truck driveline shop that makes our shafts for us locally. Heavy-wall tubing and all that. Balanced as a matter of course <pride in your work and all that>.

I'm not saying that TW and the others above aren't good stuff. Sure they are. But they use the same materials for their shafts every other <good> quality shaft ship does. As far as the builder wheeling or not-- it's easy enough to tell him you want it built as strong as he can and relate what you're going to be doing with it.

Not trying to start an argument here-- just stating an opinion.

ECKSJAY said:

TW shafts are a big deal (as are Six States) because they are quality made and balanced, besides the fact that they have experience doing what we do. They know what their shafts are being used for. If you buy from an off the wall driveline shop they may just be building a shaft and not considering the use, let alone know what they are doing. I think you're taking the two and confusing them. Go with TW, Six States, or High Angle and you won't go wrong (at least in my experience).

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maybe I just expect quality and pride in one's work, and am expecting that balancing a rotating assembly is an obvious part of the job?

Rawbrown said:

because in the vast majority of the world outside of our beloved jeeps, in the world of lock out hubs, there is no real requirment to have a balance front driveshaft since it typically doesn't turn at hwy speeds. my front DD shaft is from Six states, and he had to get the shaft built and shipped in a day to me. hence the lack of a good balance because I didn't spec that and it was assumed that I had lock out hubs. Eric at SS does a good job at building me shafts when I need them.

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burntkat said:

I'm not saying that TW and the others above aren't good stuff. Sure they are. But they use the same materials for their shafts every other <good> quality shaft ship does. As far as the builder wheeling or not-- it's easy enough to tell him you want it built as strong as he can and relate what you're going to be doing with it.

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Of course they use the same materials. I hope you didn't think that I meant that TW and the others are the ONLY people who know what they're doing. Simply trying to point the newbies in the right direction so they don't get hosed by their inexperience. Oftentimes if both people don't know what they're doing then something might be left out or not done properly, no matter how 'good' the shop may be. Places like TW, etc, know what they're doing from experience and will take the time to ask questions and teach what needs taught. The final line "...you can't go wrong" sums it up perfectly. If there isn't a trusted shop in your area, then there are alternatives. If there is a good shop, then bravo.

burntkat said:

maybe I just expect quality and pride in one's work, and am expecting that balancing a rotating assembly is an obvious part of the job?

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Being in the 4WD aftermarket business I can tell you that OTHER shops cut corners on a regular basis. We see a LOT of clientele who had been hosed by inexperienced shops' parts and installation. There are bad places everywhere, it's just a matter of running into them.

it came down to be a miscommunication between me and Eric, thats all. He builds a good shaft. I gave him less than 5 hours to throw a shaft together and overnight it to me. I spec'd front axle and thats it. so then he assumed I had lockout hubs. every other shaft I have gotten from him has been exelent.

burntkat said:

maybe I just expect quality and pride in one's work, and am expecting that balancing a rotating assembly is an obvious part of the job?

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i know that some toyota guys run them - ill ask a bud of mine and try to get a pic from him when he signs on...

BTW - how do you set up this type shaft? point the diff right at the pinion? straight (parallel) to pinion? would it even matter at all?

XJ_ranger said:

BTW - how do you set up this type shaft? point the diff right at the pinion? straight (parallel) to pinion? would it even matter at all?

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I talked to Jess at High Angle a little about this since I started the thread. He seemed to think that what I was trying to do was a good solution to:

1. get caster exact without suffering from vibes
2. keep the front axle that I have and am happy with
3. avoid purchasing a highly overpriced hub conversion kit and wheels

With both DCs on the shaft, you would set your caster at whatever you wanted and theoretically forget the pinion/driveshaft angle relationship. I realize that he is in the business to sell driveshafts, but from his reputation I am confident in his advice.
I also had a conversation with a small sort-of local shop in Chesapeake, VA about building one. The tech there wasn't too keen on the idea as he said that the sand down here on the beach would wear it out too quickly. He didn't seem to have an answer as to why the sand became an issue with an extra DC joint, if my stock one is holding up fine already.
It would seem to me that I could just take my front shaft to a "good" shop and have them mod the one that I have. The factory DC and slip joint are in good shape, so that should save a few bucks on the cost of assembly.