Diesel XJ's???

I've heard of them before, but have never seen one in the United States. Are there any here. It seems to me like diesel would be cheaper right now.

In the AMC years they offered a diesel. I think it was a 2.0L or 2.1L. Can't remember if it was a Renault engine or an Italian engine. Not many were sold, so it's no surprise that you haven't seen them around. And because so few were sold, parts are outrageously expensive, not to mention hard to find.

Loads of diesel XJs over here, all the VM 2.5 TD's under the bonnet (Rovers, Isuzu thingies/ Vauxhall Frontera). They have a tendency to go at the head quite a lot though, which is in 4 separate pieces, which makes them a little on the expensive side to replace. You don't get much better fuel consumption than a 4 litre, but they have massive engine braking in 1st (they tend to be manuals). My personal preference: get a HO and convert to LPG. Either you lose boot space or underbody clearance, but you'll recoup the costs of the conversion pretty quickly if you keep it for a few years.

Thanks Chancer, by the way do you know any websites that have a kit for that?

http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=47460

Apart from that, try trawling some of the UK-based forums: lots of discussions on the merit of the various systems available. Otherwise, check out the approved installers list at lpga.co.uk, if there is one - somebody on there should be able to authoritatively talk you through it.

pa_muddin_xj said:

I've heard of them before, but have never seen one in the United States. Are there any here. It seems to me like diesel would be cheaper right now.

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87 was the last year for the turbo diesel here in the US.

I've got a Diesel XJ (VM 2,5 TurboDiesel 98). And it's true what Chancer said that there are a lot of gone heads. I haven't one till now (125.000 km) but 2 of my friends had one (even with the newer version - after 97).
After 97 they improved the engine and they added a Intercooler (which is mounted behind the bumper where it isn't getting air to do it's job ), a oil to water cooler, a water collecting tube at the heads (to get air bubbles out of the engine if it's running hot) and some guys think a new water pump.
So I've heard a lot of problems with the before 97 models and only some with the after 97 models.

I added an additional oilcooler and made some wholes in the bumper for the intercooler.
The fuel consumption is about 10L per 100km which is much lesser than the 4.0 engines (12-15 L per 100 km).
Here in europe the fuel is much more expensive than in the states. Gas costs about € 1,- per Liter (about double of your costs). Diesel costs € 0,8 per Liter. Also we have to pay taxes depending on the horsepower of the cars. And the 4.0 are much more expensive than the Diesel with 115 hp. So all this makes the Diesel in europe much more reliable (even with the head problems).

Also there were the 2.1 Renault Diesel (they are not built anymore). But they have to less hp for the "heavy" XJ. But this engine was much more stable.

greetings from Austria :wave:
Rainer

I can confirm chancer & woodstock opinion, stay on HO.
here in Italy is plenty of diesel XJ, difficult to find HO!
There are two version 2.1td by renault & 2.5td by VM.
The renault is much stable, average life 300000Km but the power is 85hp and you have the maximum torque only around 2500rpm; the turbo strat to engage only at 1800rpm.
The VM, in this version, has a lot of problem, with the head and not only, (problems well know by the maker) it's very powerfull with a lot of torque, perfect for off road. (but keep a spare one in your garage)
My friend have swap it with 3litres version which is very good.

Ok, can someone give me real world comparisons of the 2.1 diesel to a 2.5 as far as power and response goes? Fuel economy?

A friend of mine has an '86 Waggy he's parting out with the 2.1 Renault Turbo Diesel with some form of aftermarket Intercooler. The price is right and my 2.5 is leaking oil badly and underpowered (YJ - 2.5/AX5/NP231/4.10's/33's). I think the 2.1 TD would drop in place of the 2.5 but I'm not certain on spline count and bellhousing. I should have access to the trans from the 2.1 which I think is also a AX5.

Thanks!

Hi,

It's about 10 years ago that i drove the 2.1 Diesel ... but i felt it less powerfull ... i never drove an 2,5 gas engine ... now i have a 2,5 Diesel since about 2 years. the 2,5 Diesel ahs more torque and feels more powerful than the 2,5 gas engine..
the 2,1 is more stable than the 2,5 Diesel .. but there were still problems with the starter, turbo, cylinderhead-seal at the 2,1 that i drove. it wasn't mine (father of my ex-girl-friend) but they used it very rough (transporting stones and carrying a large trailer) ...

the consumption of the 2,5 diesel is about 10 Liter /100km .. idon't know the consumption of the 2,1 ..

i hope this could help you too :wave:

Woodstock said:

the 2,1 is more stable than the 2,5 Diesel .. but there were still problems with the starter, turbo, cylinderhead-seal at the 2,1 that i drove.

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One thing I'll add to this as a French car enthusiast living in the US: Renault parts are incredibly difficult to come by, and expensive when you do find them. It's actually easier in a lot of cases to find parts for Citroens (which haven't been sold here since 1974) than Renaults - and Renault only left the US market in 1988.

You might want to consider using a Mercedes turbo-diesel if you're serious about this, or finding a rolled Liberty CRD and doing an engine swap (the latter being what I've been looking into for a similar mod). You'll probably end up spending more on the conversion, but at least you'll have access to parts supplies in the long term.

Also do some research into the Winnebago LeSharo if you do decide to go the Renault route. Many of them came with the 2.1TD, so RV suppliers may be able to help you better than Jeep dealers / parts specialists.

Chancer said:

Loads of diesel XJs over here, all the VM 2.5 TD's under the bonnet (Rovers, Isuzu thingies/ Vauxhall Frontera). They have a tendency to go at the head quite a lot though, which is in 4 separate pieces, which makes them a little on the expensive side to replace. You don't get much better fuel consumption than a 4 litre, but they have massive engine braking in 1st (they tend to be manuals). My personal preference: get a HO and convert to LPG. Either you lose boot space or underbody clearance, but you'll recoup the costs of the conversion pretty quickly if you keep it for a few years.

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We got those XJ's ober here too, they suck in the way it's made the engine, wear out really fast, turbo problems and slow as a turttle!

Get the 4.0L, be free of troubles and conver it to LPG ( I had that system in my 4.0L before I strokering it and conver the jeep in a Race XJ)

Woodstock said:

I've got a Diesel XJ (VM 2,5 TurboDiesel 98). And it's true what Chancer said that there are a lot of gone heads. I haven't one till now (125.000 km) but 2 of my friends had one (even with the newer version - after 97).
After 97 they improved the engine and they added a Intercooler (which is mounted behind the bumper where it isn't getting air to do it's job ), a oil to water cooler, a water collecting tube at the heads (to get air bubbles out of the engine if it's running hot) and some guys think a new water pump.
So I've heard a lot of problems with the before 97 models and only some with the after 97 models.

I added an additional oilcooler and made some wholes in the bumper for the intercooler.
The fuel consumption is about 10L per 100km which is much lesser than the 4.0 engines (12-15 L per 100 km).
Here in europe the fuel is much more expensive than in the states. Gas costs about € 1,- per Liter (about double of your costs). Diesel costs € 0,8 per Liter. Also we have to pay taxes depending on the horsepower of the cars. And the 4.0 are much more expensive than the Diesel with 115 hp. So all this makes the Diesel in europe much more reliable (even with the head problems).

Also there were the 2.1 Renault Diesel (they are not built anymore). But they have to less hp for the "heavy" XJ. But this engine was much more stable.

greetings from Austria :wave:
Rainer

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How do they fugure that at the pump?

scoobyxj said:

How do they fugure that at the pump?

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They don't. Each vehicle is essentially rated by the government for bhp (or steam horsepower, which I will *not* get into here given that it's bloody complicated), and annual taxation assigned accordingly based on whatever scale they've drawn up.

Equally arbitrary is the displacement equation that a lot of EU countries use to reckon taxation. This is how (.PDF format) we do it in Ireland - multiply the Euro numbers by 1.3 to get the dollar value. Now you know why most of Europe drives diesels.

Then there's the UK method, which is based on assumed CO output.

It's all a crock of sh*t. And if anyone in California tries to defend that bill that was put before the state legislature to introduce a UK-style system of taxation, I *will* be exercising my second amendment rights in their direction. Large automotive engines aren't the threat to us: China and India are, with their lack of pollution controls.

The LPG isn't going to save you money here in the states. Maybe if you live in Texas or Alberta. Check the price of local propane and the road tax. I looked into it a few months back. It came to about $2.00. You might look into CNG. This might be an option if the state you live in has a bunch of filling stations for it. Mainly OK and CA. Some government Cherokees has a daul fuel setup for this. I bid on one on E-Bay, but didn't win. I figured it would save $200.00 for every 15K of miles.
Tom

So it sounds as though the 2.1 TD isn't worth it even if it is dirt cheap? Considering gas is $2.049 and diesel $2.329 right now, it would also have to be a large increasing in fuel economy just to break even. <rant>Why is diesel more then gas? It's a less refined product - doesn't make sense to me!</rant> I might as well rebuild the 2.5L and swap to the Dana 44's and 5.13 gearing. A 4.0 would be ideal but not a very cheap option around here - engine/computer/trans/t-case would be well over $1000.

maybe it's more expensive because of the lesser usage in the states?

PA Highlander said:

So it sounds as though the 2.1 TD isn't worth it even if it is dirt cheap?

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That's basically it. It's not so much that it's a bad engine, just a nightmare to support. It is *very* underpowered for moving an XJ along, btw. Seriously, look into a CRD swap - as a bonus, you'll have the benefit of an additional 20 years of diesel technology development and only need one source for parts.

Considering gas is $2.049 and diesel $2.329 right now, it would also have to be a large increasing in fuel economy just to break even.

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Jeez, I wish we were at $2.04. Filled up last night at $2.37. One station in downtown LA has 87-octane set at $2.65 last I checked. This price gouging is bullsh*t.

<rant>Why is diesel more then gas? It's a less refined product - doesn't make sense to me!</rant>

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Because the main purchasers of diesel are fleet vehicles (i.e., semis). The oil companies can charge more for it knowing that they'll pay it. Then there's the government, taxing it...

casm said:

That's basically it. It's not so much that it's a bad engine, just a nightmare to support. It is *very* underpowered for moving an XJ along, btw. Seriously, look into a CRD swap - as a bonus, you'll have the benefit of an additional 20 years of diesel technology development and only need one source for parts.

Jeez, I wish we were at $2.04. Filled up last night at $2.37. One station in downtown LA has 87-octane set at $2.65 last I checked. This price gouging is bullsh*t.

Because the main purchasers of diesel are fleet vehicles (i.e., semis). The oil companies can charge more for it knowing that they'll pay it. Then there's the government, taxing it...

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Well my Jeep is a YJ which is a bit lighter than an XJ - but I don't think there is enough of a weight difference to matter. The CRD is very pricey right now so it more than likely is not an option for several years. Considering I bought the Jeep for $2000, it's hard to justify putting another $2000 in the engine right now.

He!! I think even $2.059 is price gouging (yep, it went up another penny since I made the first post 9 hours ago ). I don't know how you CA folks deal with all the bullsh!t out there.

Yea, the entire oil industry is a racket - they know you need it and will pay whatever the going rate is. I live in a very rural area (no public transportation) with a 25 mile one way commute to the office ... I have no choice but to pony up for fuel. I traded my F150 a few months ago for the PT Cruiser to get better commuter mileage. Of course it's been snowing so much the YJ has been running more than the PT. :wierd:

The new Diesel in the Liberty that should come to the states soon will probablly work it's way into the Wrangler line. I think that's good news for Jeep in general.

FWIW, I'd love to put that new VW Tourag (however you spell it) Turbo V10 Diesel in a Jeep. Not that I think it's easy or anything